could a catholic,a protestant and jehover's witness pls given an explanation of trinity with citation from holy book.
10Q in advance

Another deluded muslim pretending to ask about the trinity as if he is really interested in knowledge . . .

Pot calling the kettle black.All religious folks are deluded.
"My delusion is better than yours",that is the only kind of debate that goes on in here.

@9ja

Insert Quote
could a catholic,a protestant and jehover's witness please given an explanation of trinity with citation from holy book.
10Q in advance

Brother, Jehovah witness does not believe in trinity and I even have their awake magazine on trinity with me. So leave Jehovah witness out of this.


@davidylan

Another deluded muslim pretending to ask about the trinity as if he is really interested in knowledge . . .

Why not shut your mouth if you have nothing sensible to say . If you are ready, we dig deep into that topic that has remained a misery to christian world.

babs787:

Why not shut your mouth if you have nothing sensible to say . If you are ready, we dig deep into that topic that has remained a misery to christian world.

Perhaps you need to take your own advice and grow up before you say anything. What sensible thing have YOU said anywhere than the plagiarized materials you kept ferreting and dressing up as your own. . . until the cover was blown?

Once again, I need to remind readers of your message:

Die Except As A MUSLIM!

Yep. . . nobody should die as a Muslim!

@pilgrim.1


You want to deflect this thead like you used to abi . No chance for you here o yeye girl

This is the question again:

could a catholic,a protestant and jehover's witness please given an explanation of trinity with citation from holy book.
10Q in advance

Yup! . Lets hear d st0ry ! of "trinity"

The word "trinity" is a term used to denote the Christian doctrine that God exists as a unity of three distinct persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Each of the persons is distinct from the other, yet identical in essence. In other words, each is fully divine in nature, but each is not the totality of the other persons of the Trinity. Each has a will, loves, and says "I", and "You" when speaking. The Father is not the same person as the Son who is not the same person as the Holy Spirit who is not the same person as the Father. Each is divine, yet there are not three gods, but one God. There are three individual subsistences, or persons. The word "subsistence" means something that has a real existence. The word "person" denotes individuality and self awareness. The Trinity is three of these, though the latter term has become the dominant one used to describe the individual aspects of God known as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Included in the doctrine of the Trinity is a strict monotheism which is the teaching that there exists in all the universe a single being known as God who is self-existent and unchangeable (Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,. Therefore, it is important to note that the doctrine of the trinity is not polytheistic as some of its critics proclaim. Trinitarianism is monotheistic by definition and those who claim it is polytheistic demonstrate a lack of understanding of what it really is.

The Trinity
God is three persons
Each person is divine
There is only one God.
Many theologians admit that the term "person" is not a perfect word to describe the three individual aspects/foci found in God. When we normally use the word person, we understand it to mean physical individuals who exist as separate beings from other individuals. But in God there are not three entities, nor three beings. God, is a trinity of persons consisting of one substance and one essence. God is numerically one. Yet, within the single divine essence are three individual subsistences that we call persons.

Each of the three persons is completely divine in nature though each is not the totality of the Godhead.
Each of the three persons is not the other two persons.
Each of the three persons is related to the other two, but are distinct from them.
The word "trinity" is not found in the Bible. But this does not mean that the concept is not taught there. The word "bible" is not found in the Bible either, but we use it anyway. Likewise, the words "omniscience," which means "all knowing," "omnipotence," which means "all powerful," and "omnipresence," which means "present everywhere," are not found in the Bible either. But we use these words to describe the attributes of God. So, to say that the Trinity isn't true because the word isn't in the Bible is an invalid argument.


There is, apparently, a subordination within the Trinity in regard to order but not substance or essence. We can see that the Father is first, the Son is second, and the Holy Spirit is third. The Father is not begotten, but the Son is (John 3:16). The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father (John 5:26). The Father sent the Son (1 John 4:10). The Son and the Father send the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 15:26). The Father creates (Isaiah 44:24), the Son redeems (Gal. 3:13), and the Holy Spirit sanctifies (Rom. 15:16).
This subordination of order does not mean that each of the members of the Godhead are not equal or divine. For example, we see that the Father sent the Son. But this does not mean that the Son is not equal to the Father in essence and divine nature. The Son is equal to the Father in his divinity, but inferior in his humanity. A wife is to be subject to her husband but this does not negate her humanity, essence, or equality. By further analogy, a king and his servant both share human nature. Yet, the king sends the servant to do his will. Jesus said, "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me" (John 6:38). Of course Jesus already is King, but the analogy shows that because someone is sent, it doesn't mean they are different than the one who sent him.
Critics of the Trinity will see this subordination as proof that the Trinity is false. They reason that if Jesus were truly God, then He would be completely equal to God the Father in all areas and would not, therefore, be subordinate to the Father in any way. But this objection is not logical. If we look at the analogy of the king and in the servant we certainly would not say that the servant was not human because he was sent. Being sent does not negate sameness in essence. Therefore, the fact that the Son is sent does not mean that He is not divine any more than when my wife sends me to get bread, I am not human.

Another important point about the Trinity is that it can be a difficult concept to grasp. But this does not necessitate an argument against its validity. On the contrary, the fact that it is difficult is an argument for its truth. The Bible is the self revelation of an infinite God. Therefore, we are bound to encounter concepts which are difficult to understand -- especially when dealing with an incomprehensible God who exists in all places at all times. So, when we view descriptions and attributes of God manifested in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, we discover that a completely comprehensible and understandable explanation of God's essence and nature is not possible. What we have, however, done is derive from the Scripture the truths that we can grasp and combine them into the doctrine we call The Trinity. The Trinity is, to a large extent, a mystery. After all, we are dealing with God Himself.
It is the way of the cults to reduce biblical truth to make God comprehensible and understandable by their minds. To this end, they subject God's word to their own reasoning and end in error. The following verses are often used to demonstrate that in the doctrine of the Trinity is indeed biblical.
Matt. 28:18, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
1 Cor. 12:4-6, Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. 6And there are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons.
2 Cor. 13:14, The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Eph. 4:4-7, There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all. 7But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift.
1 Pet. 1:2, "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."
Jude 20-21, "But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith; praying in the Holy Spirit; 21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life."

@dafidixone,

That is an excellent article.

@dafidixone & Tayo-D

Please read


In "The Dictionary of the Bible," John L. McKenzie, S.J., p. 899 bearing the Nihil Obstat, Imprimatur, and Imprimi Potest (official Church seals of approval), we read:


"THE TRINITY OF GOD IS DEFINED BY THE CHURCH AS THE BELIEF THAT IN GOD ARE THREE PERSONS WHO SUBSIST IN ONE NATURE. THAT BELIEF AS SO DEFINED WAS REACHED ONLY IN THE 4th AND 5th CENTURIES AD AND HENCE IS NOT EXPLICITLY AND FORMALLY A BIBLICAL BELIEF.


The concept of "Trinity" was in fact a very old worshipping practice; it started long time before the time of Jesus. It was in Babylon that the idea of "Trinity" first appeared. This Trinity consisted of Baal, the Sun-god as father, Semiramis, the Queen mother and Nimrod, the divine child. A day was set aside to rejoice over and to celebrate the re-birth of the young god. From Babylon this worship spread to other places, but the names varied in different countries.


In Western Asia, the god Attis was worshipped as the child of miracle, born to a virgin mother Nana. In Egypt, we have again the same belief with a change of names. There is Isis and Osiris were worshipped as "Mother and Child". In Rome, the "Mother and Child" deities were known as Fortuna and Jupiterpuer; in Greece, Demeter and Dionysus; and in other countries such as India, Tibet and China. Therefore, one can easily understand how the concept of `Trinity' crept into the doctrines of Christianity as it was adapted to suit the Gentiles.

This polytheistic (believing in more than one god) Trinitarianism was intertwined with Greek religion and philosophy and slowly worked its way into Christian thought and creeds some 300 years after Jesus. The idea of "God the Son" is Babylonian paganism and mythology that was grafted into Christianity. Tertullian, a lawyer and presbyter of the third century Church in Carthage, was the first to use the word "Trinity" when he put forth the theory that the Son and the Spirit participate in the being of God, but all are of one being of substance with the Father.


Three centuries after Jesus, the corrupt emperor Constantine forced the minority opinion of the trinity upon the council of Nicea. The Christian church went downward from there; in fact some of the creeds and councils actually contradict each other. The council of Nicea 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," the council of Ephesus 431 said that "human beings are totally depraved," the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God."



The Jews also reject the trinity, in addition to the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians never know about trinity doctrine at all. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus (peace be upon him) as a prophet of God and against the trinity.

Even in the modern age there are churches in Asia, in Africa, the Unitarian church, the Jehovah's witnesses, and even the majority of today's Anglican Bishops do not worship Jesus (peace be upon him) as one in three, as what been report by the "Daily News" 25/6/84 under the heading "Shock survey of Anglican Bishops."

Moreover, the 'Socinianism', the 17th-century Christian also rejects such traditional doctrines as the Trinity and original sin, the founder is Socinus, and his Latinized name of Lelio Francesco Maria Sozzini (1525-1562), the Italian Protestant theologian.

Johannes Greber (1874) a former of Catholic priest in his book 'The Communication with the Spirit World of God' in page 371 was written, "As you see, the doctrine of a triune Godhead is not only contrary to common sense, but is entirely unsupported by the Scriptures". So another priest who was deny the trinity.

A theologians, Edouard Schillebeeckx of the Netherlands in 1979 was writings some article that rejects the doctrine of the Trinity. This caused concern to the Vatican.

@Tayo-D & Dafidixone



Having given you the above introduction to what trinity is all about, I will appreciate your answering these questions:

Did God need to change himself before they could accept His message and did He need to punish Himself for the sin committed by His creator?


Can you show me any verse from the OT where OT prophets preached trinity?


" "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. ( John 4:34)"


Did God send himself?


" "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. (John 5:24)"

Did he send himself?


"So Jesus said, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. (John 8:28)"



" "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. (From the NIV Bible, John 14:28)"


Did you see that? Any explanation


"Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me. Anyone who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet's reward, and anyone who receives a righteous man because he is a righteous man will receive a righteous man's reward. (Matthew 10:39-41)"


Did he send himself?


"And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." (From the NIV Bible, Luke 10:15-16)"


Did you see that?



Mark 13:32"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. If Messiah was God, he would know that day, that is the End of this system of things. The Omnipotent God knows all things because with him no declaration will be impossible.


John 7:16 Jesus answered, "My teaching is not my own. It comes from him who sent me.

Here Jesus or Yahushua is referring to another person, thus showing they are two distinct beings. Furthermore the One who does the sending is far superior in rank to the one who is sent.

1 Corinthians 11:3: Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is YHWH [Jehovah or Yahweh]


How could God be head over his own self. Rather God is head over all his creatures including the Celestial Christ.

1 Corinthians 15:28:When Jesus or Yahushua hands over the kingdom to his God and Father ,then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.



Ephesians 1:3-Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.


Ephesians 1:17I keep asking that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the glorious Father, may give you the Spirit[a] of wisdom and revelation, so that you may know him better.


1 Peter 1:3Praise be to the God and[b] Father of our Lord Jesus Christ[/b]! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, A 3 rd time, our Lord Jesus has a God over him.

Revelation 1:6 -Jesus has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.


John 20:17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'


Jesus worshiping his God:

Let us look at Luke 5:16 "And he (Jesus) withdrew himself into the wilderness and prayed to his God."

Matthew 26:39 "And going a little way forward, he (Jesus) fell upon his face, praying and saying 'My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.' "

Here in this verse we see two things:
(1) Jesus bowed down on his face and prayed in submission to his GOD in obedience.
(2) Jesus was begging his GOD to let the cup pass away from him.
Jesus did not have the power to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. GOD had to do it for Jesus !.


Matthew 26:42 "Again, for the second time, he (Jesus) went off and prayed, saying: 'My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away except I drink it, let your will take place.'"

Jesus begged his GOD to will what Jesus wanted to happen. Jesus couldn't will it by himself.

Matthew 26:44 "So leaving them, he (Jesus) went off and[b] prayed for the third time,[/b] saying once more the same word." Here we see that Jesus for the third time begged his GOD to will what Jesus wished for in Matthew 26:39 above.


Hebrew 5:7 "During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from deat[/b]h, and he [b]was heard because of his reverent submission."

Here we see Jesus prayed to God be saved and God HEARD ( in any religious speech the HEARD means that the person has been answer with the prayer) him.


Mathew 3:16 "After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God's spirit coming upon him. Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved."


"The Father is greater than I." John 14:28

Did God need to change himself before they could accept His message and did He need to punish Himself for the sin committed by His creator?

Could be because of the Hardness of your heart

Can you show me any verse from the OT where OT prophets preached trinity?

It (Trinity) is not about preaching but it an explanation of the Person of God. The pagan king confirmed it in the book of Daniel he said" , the fourt person has the likes of the SOn of God" Tell me did Daniel prayed to SOn of God?

" "My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. ( John 4:34)"

Yes you are right, just like when God says "Come let Us make man in our own image".
Like I told you, except you are born again you cannot understand this mystery. To the unbeleivers it is impossible to know. So safe your self the stress until you are born again.

@dafidixone

Could be because of the Hardness of your heart

I asked a question and here it goes again:

Did God need to change himself before they could accept His message and did He need to punish Himself for the sin committed by His creator?

It (Trinity) is not about preaching but it an explanation of the Person of God. The pagan king confirmed it in the book of Daniel he said" , the fourt person has the likes of the SOn of God" Tell me did Daniel prayed to SOn of God?

Can you please give me that verse and by the way I asked you to show me where any OT prophets mentioned trinity.

Yes you are right, just like when God says "Come let Us make man in our own image".
Like I told you, except you are born again you cannot understand this mystery. To the unbeleivers it is impossible to know. So safe your self the stress until you are born again.

Haba, save yourself the stress. You couldnt explain but you have been preaching all these years! Did he pray and beg himself to save himself from death three times, repeating same thing over and over again and sweating profusely?

Try to explain and I will understand

@davidylan
hope u understand d fact that d question goes 2d house,dont b afraid 2 say u don't know or u don't wanna share its ur right.
"deluded muslim" i think ur takin it 2 personal,its a 4rum 4 cryin out loud.

@dafidixone
thanks 4d write up, ill digest it n get back 2u if i need 4ther xplanation

@Dafidixone: Please my man, be for real! Someday you will grow old and wither. You will then die off. When you are dying and suddenly you see that Jesus is just a prophet and nothing more, will you have any excuse for your refusal to take this discussion seriously? Thank God that Bab787 is here to help all of us. The best of persons who will enter heavens/paradise will not be the likes of Albert Einstein. No it will be the likes of those people who are not arrogant and proud to obey the commandment and worship God with all the soul and heart, in sincerity.

Please let us all grow up and introspectively reflect and search our hearts and ask God Almighty for guidance and mercy so that we may worship and obey Him in the way He prescribes. And not in our own way or any way that He does not ordain for us.

@ Dafidixone

I really appreciated that explanation. One of the analogies I have come to rely on in understanding this Trinity concept is to see the word God as government. So in essence the word God being a title is used to represent one system of governance in which all three persons share.

@olabowale,

olabowale:

Thank God that Bab787 is here to help all of us. The best of persons who will enter heavens/paradise will not be the likes of Albert Einstein. No it will be the likes of those people who are not arrogant and proud to obey the commandment and worship God with all the soul and heart, in sincerity.

Having grown weak from your bloviates, you have predictably drawn a line of hiding behind babs787 as your new exacuse for not being able to stand up to your bloviates. Well done - it was long expected of you, so no surprises there!

It should interest you to know that the best persons who will enter heavens/paradise are not those who keep lying for 'Allah' - I hope you understand that as a FACT?!? The second FACT is what I have been waiting for you to establish and always remember: Muslims will ENTER Hell Fire according to the irrevocable decree set upon them by 'Allah'.

This is not to introduce a deflection of the present topic (which is merely a recycling of the same topic in other threads). I only just wanted to point out to you that your adventures are waning, and your mendacity has gradually dawned on you after several threads.

@pilgrim.1, bobbyaf, dafidixone et al


Let us shed more light into the issue of trinity.

Christians use 1st epistle of john 5 v 7 as the verse on trinity wich goes this way:


for there are there that bear record in heaven, the father, the word and the holy spirit and thse three are one.Are there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water and the blood and these three agree in one.


The above is in King James Version authorised in 1611 and formed the strongest evidence for the Doctrine of the Trinity. But now this part, 'the father, the word and the holy ghost; and these three are one' has been expunged in the Revised Standard Version of 1952 and 1971 and in many other bibles as it was a gloss that had encroached on the Greek test.


I john 5 v 7 and 8 in the New American Standard Bible read as follows; 'and it is the spirit who bears witness because the spirit is truth. For there are three that bear witness, the spirit, and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement.


Also in the New World Translation of Holy Scriptures used by Jehovah Witness, you will find 'for there are three witness bearers, the spirit and the water and the blood and the three are in agreement'.


Trinity is not biblical, it is not even in the bible, not in bible dictionaries, Jesus never taught trinity nor mentioned same. There is no basis or proof in the bible for the acceptance of trinity.

@babs787,

I have just one question for you:

WHEN and WHO changed John 1:1 right from when it was first penned?

It is not now a matter of DENYING that the verse has always remained as is from the day it was penned. But after you have denied all you want, please provide a sane answer to that question, then we can intelligently examine your claims and rest your worries.

Can you please give me that verse and by the way I asked you to show me where any OT prophets mentioned trinity.

Thank you for your question an I think you are a kind of person that like knowledge.

Open to Daniel 3Vs 23-25. "And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."


As regards the second part of your question, it may interest you to kno that Trinity is a word adopted to provide a concept that is mysterious in christian faith. It is similar to say an Acronymn "Tri" means "three" (3) and the second part is representation of the devine ideology behind only 1 God presenting in 3 person (trinity). Not realy a biblical word. It may also interest you to know that the word trinity is used for us to summarise the explaniation of this mystery.

Let me also inform you that the Bible has only one purpose, and the purpose is "revelation of the Plan of God for man as regard His gift of Jesus to Mankind"

Shallom!

@pilgrim.1


I have just one question for you:

WHEN and WHO changed John 1:1 right from when it was first penned?


In the beginning was the word
And the word was with God
And the word was God

abi

What is the Greek word for God in the second statement?
What is the Greek word for God in the last statement?






Dafidixone

Thank you for your question an I think you are a kind of person that like knowledge.\

Open to Daniel 3Vs 23-25. "And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace.

Na wa o . Hope no be oly me dey see this one? How this relate to trinity we are discussing ?

Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonished, and rose up in haste, and spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king.

Buroda na wa ooooooo, I no fit laugh . Show me where OT prophets preached it

He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

They are not there here but four!!!!

As regards the second part of your question, it may interest you to kno that Trinity is a word adopted to provide a concept that is mysterious in christian faith. It is similar to say an Acronymn "Tri" means "three" (3) and the second part is representation of the devine ideology behind only 1 God presenting in 3 person (trinity). Not realy a biblical word. It may also interest you to know that the word trinity is used for us to summarise the explaniation of this mystery.

Did you see the last part of my post?
This is it

Trinity is not biblical, it is not even in the bible, not in bible dictionaries, Jesus never taught trinity nor mentioned same. There is no basis or proof in the bible for the acceptance of trinity.

Prove me wrong please

They are not there here but four!!!!

I only suggest you be born again then you see more clearly the revelations of God person. staying a muslim will not make you know the truth and for you to be free from bondage will be difficult.

Jesus Love you man

@babs787,

babs787:

What is the Greek word for God in the second statement?
What is the Greek word for God in the last statement?

How have you ANSWERED the single question I offered you:

pilgrim.1:

@babs787,

I have just one question for you:

WHEN and WHO changed John 1:1 right from when it was first penned?

Like I often say, Muslims who have no clue have never sought to answer questions - and you just proved it here.

Dear babs787, this is the simple proof that you NEVER are interested in a genuine discourse. That is why you NEVER genuinely seek to answer simple questions - and that is why I have stopped entertaining your games UNTIL you grow up and behave!

Whenever you have upgraded your intelligence and dropped your shakara, then you will see what no Muslim scholar has ever told you before. The reason why you keep playing these games is because you have had absolutely nothing to offer the forum but have ben making noise from thread to thread.

- - - - - - - -

Meanwhile, after all the noise that olabowale has made, where is he now?

After all the noise that combatant has made, where is he now?

After asll the noise that Tiptronic has made, where is he now?

After all the noise that luv2talk has made, where is he?

After all the otiose noise that auwal87 has made, where is he?


The next thing you will find them doing is sneak in as mr 1 post and mr 2 posts - and then they disappear as quickly as they sneaked in!

Muslim, una wayo has been exposed o jare. Nothing to keep Islam alive than the same excuses recycled from thread to thread!

Enjoy!

@Defidixone: Born again to what, disbelieving? Nay, man! You wanna be born again, go right ahead. Its your skin that will be burnt to smitterings. Leave the forebearing servants/slaves of Allah the Almighty Creator out of it! When you are dying and your whole live will be in a flash in front of you and you willalso come to realise that Jesus was no more than an apostle of his Creator, Allah the Almighty! But your change of mind will be too late, because the reality is already set and it is firm. Just like the case of Pharaoh, changing his mind to believing that there is a True One God!

olabowale:

@Defidixone: Born again to what, disbelieving? Nay, man! You want to be born again, go right ahead. Its your skin that will be burnt to smitterings. Leave the forebearing servants/slaves of Allah the Almighty Creator out of it! When you are dying and your whole live will be in a flash in front of you and you willalso come to realise that Jesus was no more than an apostle of his Creator, Allah the Almighty! But your change of mind will be too late, because the reality is already set and it is firm. Just like the case of Pharaoh, changing his mind to believing that there is a True One God!

Lol. . . another vexed soul just crawled out of his hole to make some more noise without a clue!

@olabowale, whose skin would be burned in what fire?

@Defidixone: Born again to what, disbelieving? Nay, man! You want to be born again, go right ahead. Its your skin that will be burnt to smitterings. Leave the forebearing servants/slaves of Allah the Almighty Creator out of it! When you are dying and your whole live will be in a flash in front of you and you willalso come to realise that Jesus was no more than an apostle of his Creator, Allah the Almighty! But your change of mind will be too late, because the reality is already set and it is firm. Just like the case of Pharaoh, changing his mind to believing that there is a True One God!

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Olabawole! abi wetin be your name. You be special case in this forum please let Babs decide for himself.

dafidixone:

Olabawole! abi wetin be your name. You be special case in this forum please let Babs decide for himself.

Hahaha. . . I no fit laugh, abeg!

@pilgrim.1

I have just one question for you:

WHEN and WHO changed John 1:1 right from when it was first penned?

Ok, let us take it this way, I don't know when and who changed it but can you please provide the Greek meaning of God used therein?


I knew you would not be able to answer those questions. This happened not to be the first time you would be avoiding questions.

Now about John 1 v 1:





The verse (John 1:1) in its original Greek Context is written as this:
 

εν (at) αρχη (first) ην (is/was) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect) και (and) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect) ην (is/was) προς (towards/facing/with) τον (the) θεον (god) και (and) θεος (god) ην (is/was) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect)
 

so once we translate the whole verse we're basically seeing:
 
At first is/was the reason/intellect and the reason/intellect is/was towards/facing/with God (ton theon) and god is the reason/intellect.
 
The problem with that verse in Greek is that we see theos being written as just theos (god/diety) and not as o theos or ton theon, which are proper ways of saying God (or the god). So the part which is written solely on its own as "theos", could be implying just any random diety, of course with ton theon written before in the sentence we automatically assume that we're still talking about the same God. Over all though, logos does not mean word in ancient Greek, and the translation of logos to word is a corrupt modern translation of the meaning for word.


The statement that John reproduced in his gospel however was uttered not by John but by A Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus.


In the verse above, the first time the word God is used, the Greek is "TON THEON", which means "a god".  However, the stronger Greek word "HO THEOS" or "O THEOS" which means "Divine God" was used for satan in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God", which the word itself literally means The God.  The second time the word God is used,", and the word was God," the word for God is also TON THEON, which also means "a god".  


Once again Pilgrim.1

What is the Greek word for God in the second statement?
What is the Greek word for God in the last statement?

@babs787,

babs787:

@pilgrim.1

Ok, let us take it this way, I don't know when and who changed it but can you please provide the Greek meaning of God used therein?

WHY then have you been recycling issues you do not know ANYTHING about, babs787?

You have no clues about what you argue, and then you have the temerity to accuse that the Bible has been altered and changed?

That is why I asked those questions, babs. . . and I am still remaining on just that one premise of not entertaining your games. Since you never seek to genuinely answer questions and all you do is keep DENYING every verse, then you leave me no option that to request that you crawl out of your shell and begin to seek to answer questions.

Until you do so, none of the other questions that you assumed to have prffered wilol be addressed. It is easy to make denials, but not easy to find answers to them.

@babs787,

Although I declared that I would not be entertaining your games of ducking issues and NEVER answering questions, for the sake of clarity, let me point something out to you:

babs787:


Now about John 1 v 1:

The verse (John 1:1) in its original Greek Context is written as this:


εν (at) αρχη (first) ην (is/was) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect) και (and) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect) ην (is/was) προς (towards/facing/with) τον (the) θεον (god) και (and) θεος (god) ην (is/was) ο (the) λογος (reason/intellect)


so once we translate the whole verse we're basically seeing:

At first is/was the reason/intellect and the reason/intellect is/was towards/facing/with God (ton theon) and god is the reason/intellect.

The problem with that verse in Greek is that we see theos being written as just theos (god/diety) and not as o theos or ton theon, which are proper ways of saying God (or the god). So the part which is written solely on its own as "theos", could be implying just any random diety, of course with ton theon written before in the sentence we automatically assume that we're still talking about the same God. Over all though, logos does not mean word in ancient Greek, and the translation of logos to word is a corrupt modern translation of the meaning for word.


The statement that John reproduced in his gospel however was uttered not by John but by A Philo of Alexandria, years before Jesus or John were born. It is therefore completely unlikely that Philo was even remotely referring to Jesus.


In the verse above, the first time the word God is used, the Greek is "TON THEON", which means "a god". However, the stronger Greek word "HO THEOS" or "O THEOS" which means "Divine God" was used for satan in 2 Corinthians 4:4. The NIV Bible Author wrote "god" for Satan instead of "God", which the word itself literally means The God. The second time the word God is used,", and the word was God," the word for God is also TON THEON, which also means "a god".

Please look again at your argument for TON THEOS. I now you are recycling plagiarized material and this is not your scholarship; but carefully see what your scholar has offered to confuse you with.

@pilgrim.1


Now can you please answer these questions?


What is the Greek word for God in the second statement?
What is the Greek word for God in the last statement?