Ask the Orthodox Sunni Muslims are pilgrims committing a sin when they board a plane or a ship?
According to their hadith, yes. They are sinning because an airplane is a likeness of a bird and a ship is a likeness of a fish which would be considered making an image of Allah’s creation. (Refer to Hadith #838, Volume 7 in the section “Are Pictures A Sin?”)

@noetic,

ok. I have been corrected, Aisha was 9.

This was not started then, it has been an existing traditions, even during the Biblical age before Islam to married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off.  In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off.  It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life.  So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married.  The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage.

so blabs would u give ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed to have sex with ?   Grin Grin Grin

The culture back then only affected some countries and is quite different from what you live in today.

is sex with a 9 year old not paedophilic?
[s]mohammed was definitely a slowpoke, inhumane and a sex pervert[/s].

NOTE: The pedophilia in the bible was quite different, because girls were raped at 3-years of age by Moses and his men. What a lie against God's prophet.

Personally, I will not argue with you concerning Aisha's age being 9 because there exist a ref for it. However, All Muslim scholars agree  that Prophet Muhammad and Aisha were engaged for 2 years before marriage.  However, some say that she was 7 when she got engaged, and 9 when she got married.  Others say that she was 9 when she got engaged and 11 when she got married. Whereas, some says get married at 14. However, Aisha has been engaged with one non believer before that of prophet Muhammad. It was broken coz the person was a non believer. The question is how old was she then?

In the ff narration:
Narrated Aisha:  "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.  ( Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)"

Notice here that Aisha's mother and the Muslim women back then were ok with her marriage.  It was part of the Arab custom and still is in many of the Muslim and non-Muslim countries today for girls to marry at a very young age.  When a girl's body starts showing up, then she would be ready for marriage.

It is very obvious in many pedophiles that they've carried out minor or major acts of pedophile behaviour in the past and this has led to habit as well as the obsessive-compulsive nature of the act towards children.

Muhammad has no history of pedophile activity whatsoever. Also, as I pointed out, all of Muhammad's other wives were adult, and there is no evidence of him being obsessed with children.

what explanation do u have for this despicable act?
considering that he did it in the name of allah, allah must have been an idiot, and a very inhuman thing.

A despicable act? For marrying a girl that was offered to him by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans. If now, this is unacceptable to you. Then, shows us a proof it wasn't unacceptable then?

Now if I may asked you a question, how old was Jesus mother when she conceived Jesus?

Horus:

Ask the Orthodox Sunni Muslims are pilgrims committing a sin when they board a plane or a ship?
According to their hadith, yes. They are sinning because an airplane is a likeness of a bird and a ship is a likeness of a fish which would be considered making an image of Allah’s creation. (Refer to Hadith #838, Volume 7 in the section “Are Pictures A Sin?”)

With all due respect if you do not know something it is wise to ask before making affirmative statements. Images in that hadith refer to statutes - 3 dimensional images and not even pictures we take today.

Plane or ship being a sin is a very ridiuclous statement, when many verses in the quran talked about ship been sailed on the sea by Allah's command. When Allah said the ark of Noah sailed with his name. Please knowledge is power and enlightenement is a very good thing. It is wise to ask before making such blanket statements next time.

@noetic,

considering that he did it in the name of allah, allah must have been an idiot, and a very inhuman thing.

I said it earlier, you need to purify yourself first, expurgate your statements before posting. If God's will, He would have make us all one faith. There we came today, seen believers and unbelievers lie on major three boundaries, Christians, Muslims and Jews.
I claim I serve unique one God, Allah who created Adam, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad. The same Name Jesus called when he was about to be killed, Elohi. The same Name you are abusing here on nairaland. However, what if you are found to be on the wrong side on the day of judgment? All these your absurd will not help you rather put you in an eternal sufferings.

Lagosboy:

With all due respect if you do not know something it is wise to ask before making affirmative statements. Images in that hadith refer to statutes - 3 dimensional images and not even pictures we take today.

Plane or ship being a sin is a very ridiuclous statement, when many verses in the quran talked about ship been sailed on the sea by Allah's command. When Allah said the ark of Noah sailed with his name. Please knowledge is power and enlightenement is a very good thing. It is wise to ask before making such blanket statements next time.

I mentioned Volume 7Number 838: Only,in my post,so where did Noah Ark have something to do with a Picture
                   
Volume 7, Book 72, Number 838:
Allah's Apostle returned from a journey when I had placed a curtain of mine having pictures over (the door of) a chamber of mine. When Allah's Apostle saw it, he tore it and said, "The people who will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection will be those who try to make the like of Allah's creations." So we turned it (i.e., the curtain) into one or two cushions.

So where in that hadith images are refered as statutes ??,Show Us!!

Lagosboy:

Gentleman, i have been sifting through some of your posts and this i would say got under my skin. Lets be civil and understand and respect the sensitivities of other faiths. If we must debate and argue lets do it but within the confines of intellectualism, civility and decorum which frowns at throwing of insults and derogatory words not just to a person but to the symbol of a faith. I can assume your a christian from your posts but no muslim can ever say a derogatory word towards Jesus not to mention calling Allah with those words.

It is is ignorance i would say leads you to call Allah in those term as we have established time without numbers that arab christains call God with that name, that yoruba call god as olorun , that igbo people call him chineke , that hausas calls him Allah or Ubangiji. I cant believe a true christain would refer to God in those demeaning terms all because he hates a faith and the people of that faith refer to God in a particular language.

Referring to the prophet of islam in those words is simply ridiculous and you could be humble enough to apologise and continue with your debate. There is absolute no need for insults and that is why people get baned from this section.

You say muslims should stay of the xtian forum but there is no christain section on NL what we have is a religious section for peoplle of all faiths and it is only islam that has a separate section.

why be an hypocrite?

why not ask ur brethrens to stop the peddling of falsehood and derogatory claims about sacred christian beliefs.

If a muslim can deduce from his knowledge that Jesus is NOT God and was not crucified (which contradicts my beliefs) and also that the bible is "corrupt"then I should be able to deduce from my knowledge and the numerous obtainable evidences that:

1. Mohammed is a paedophile and sex pervert (for having sexual relations with a 9 year old girl) with a blood thirsty spirit serving an idol called "allah".

2. allah is merely one of the numerous (360) gods worshiped in arabia before the birth of mohammed. allah was worshipped by mohammed`s father abdallah, allah had a wife or feminine form called "allat" and together they had three children called al`-Uzzah (power), al-Lat (the goddess), and Manah (fate).

u have ur beliefs and I have mine. This forum is intended that all parties express themselves for educational and informative purposes.
So please stop ur ranting about morality and decorum.

littleb:

@noetic,

This was not started then, it has been an existing traditions, even during the Biblical age before Islam to married off at young ages when they either had their first periods, or their breasts start showing off.  In other words, when they turn into "women", then they get married off.  It was quite different for men on the other hand, because physical power and the ability of living an independent life had always been and will always be a mandatory requirement for men to have in life.  So men waited much longer than women in terms of getting married.  The guy had to develop both his body and mind before he was ready for marriage.


The culture back then only affected some countries and is quite different from what you live in today.

Personally, I will not argue with you concerning Aisha's age being 9 because there exist a ref for it. However, All Muslim scholars agree  that Prophet Muhammad and Aisha were engaged for 2 years before marriage.  However, some say that she was 7 when she got engaged, and 9 when she got married.  Others say that she was 9 when she got engaged and 11 when she got married. Whereas, some says get married at 14. However, Aisha has been engaged with one non believer before that of prophet Muhammad. It was broken coz the person was a non believer. The question is how old was she then?

In the ff narration:
Narrated Aisha:  "The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became Alright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.  ( Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)"

Notice here that Aisha's mother and the Muslim women back then were ok with her marriage.  It was part of the Arab custom and still is in many of the Muslim and non-Muslim countries today for girls to marry at a very young age.  When a girl's body starts showing up, then she would be ready for marriage.

It is very obvious in many pedophiles that they've carried out minor or major acts of pedophile behaviour in the past and this has led to habit as well as the obsessive-compulsive nature of the act towards children.

Muhammad has no history of pedophile activity whatsoever. Also, as I pointed out, all of Muhammad's other wives were adult, and there is no evidence of him being obsessed with children.

keep going on and on about the morality of paedophilic act of mo. It is obvious and deducible that mohammed encouraged this despicable crime against womanhood and humanity. This has today become a norm in many islamic states, the links below can help u know better.

http://www.womenscampaigninternational.org/2009/04/saudi-arabia-to-review-underage-marriage-laws/
http://iperceive.net/underage-marriage-under-fire-in-saudi-arabia/
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/14/saudi.child.marriage/index.html
http://xrdarabia.org/2009/02/08/saudis-reconsider-underage-marriage/
http://www.freemuslims.org/news.php?id=4413
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/04/saudi-arabia-court-refuses-to-nix-8yearolds-marriage-to-60yearold.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/farivar/petition.html
http://www.islam-watch.org/Eka/Marriage.htm
http://en.afrik.com/article14723.html
http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/wgender/50527
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1465336.php/Indonesian_cleric_arrested_over_underage_marriage_
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090214/FOREIGN/70325186/1011/ART

A despicable act? For marrying a girl that was offered to him by her parents and was accepted by all of the people back then including the enemies of Islam, the pagans. If now, this is unacceptable to you. Then, shows us a proof it wasn't unacceptable then?

Fine.
Can u give ur 6 year old daughter to court mr mohammed? YES or NO
can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed?  YES or NO
can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed?  YES or NO

If u can answer yes to all these questions, then it is deducible that this are norms in islam, a weakling like me can never understand.
And I refuse to serve a god who encourages this despicable act.

NOTE: The pedophilia in the bible was quite different, because girls were raped at 3-years of age by Moses and his men. What a lie against God's prophet.

where in the bible was this recorded?

Now if I may asked you a question, how old was Jesus mother when she conceived Jesus?

I cant find that in my bible, so u tell me.


Its obvious that my positions here is unrufling some feathers, however my antagonism of ur islam is based on 10 facts I have deduced over the last few days, they are:

Fact 1. Before Mohammed came, arabians were worshipping 360 idols in kabal, one for each day and "allah" was one of them.

Fact 2. Mohammed`s father worshipped this "allah", before the birth of mohammed. This can be deduced from his name abdallah. which means servant of allah.

Fact 3. allah is the coining of two words meaning "al" and "llah" meaning "the" "god". I will deduce from this that whoever coined the name "allah" was referring to one of the 360 gods in existence then. My deduction is buttressed by history.

Fact 4.  Contrary to jejune postulations by blabs and co, no prophet in the old testament called Jehovah God "allah" (this includes Abraham, Moses, Isaiah et all), neither did the new testament christians ever refer to GOD as "allah"

Fact 5. Since there is no known correlation (amongst the prophets) between the biblical Jehovah God and "allah", it is safe to state that christians and muslims do not worship the same "God"

Fact 6. The Ka`ba was a house devoted for the worship of the sun, the moon and the planets in the pre-mohammed era. You know what it is being used for now, right?

Fact 7. The feminine form of "allah" is called "allat" . Any explanation for this?

Fact 8. Mohammed introduced no new god to arabians. He only ascended the status of "allah" from a minor god (in comparison with the moon and the sun) to the main god in arabia.

Fact 9. Who/what is Sabean and Mineam? Pre-mohammed "allah" had 3 daughters who were worshipped along with him. They are al`-Uzzah (power), al-Lat (the goddess), and Manah (fate) why are they now not acknowledged in present day islam?

Fact 10. Islam by the deeds and inactions of mohammed was conceived in idolatry, as there is no connection between allah and Jehovah God. That explains certain traditions and convictions of islam.

Good luck.

littleb:

@noetic,

I said it earlier, you need to purify yourself first, expurgate your statements before posting. If God's will, He would have make us all one faith. There we came today, seen believers and unbelievers lie on major three boundaries, Christians, Muslims and Jews.
I claim I serve unique one God, Allah who created Adam, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad. The same Name Jesus called when he was about to be killed, Elohi. The same Name you are abusing here on nairaland. However, what if you are found to be on the wrong side on the day of judgment? All these your absurd will not help you rather put you in an eternal sufferings.

"allah" is not and cannot be the God of the bible, allah had three daughters, the God of the bible had ONE begotten Son called JESUS.

They are not and cannot be the same.

@Noetic

Fact 1. Before Mohammed came, arabians were worshipping 360 idols in kabal, one for each day and "allah" was one of them.

Liar. Its not true. Allah was never one of the gods then and please how come Muhammed (saw) kicked agaist worshipping of Idol if He was one of them?

Why do we have the same word in Arabic bible and Arabs and northern Muslims call him by that name.

In case you dont know, grab a gideon biblem open the translation and read the name use for Allah therein.

Fact 2. Mohammed`s father worshipped this "allah", before the birth of mohammed. This can be deduced from his name abdallah. which means servant of allah.

\
Liar. Prove me wrong. I have explained this but you are being brainwashed hence the feigning of ignorance. Allah has been existing since the creation of Adam and even before Adam but they prefer worshipping idol to Allah and when the prophet came, he destroyed the idols and how come he did that if they are both same. Think my dullard friend

Fact 3. allah is the coining of two words meaning "al" and "llah" meaning "the" "god". I will deduce from this that whoever coined the name "allah" was referring to one of the 360 gods in existence then. My deduction is buttressed by history.

Do we say it means the god with reference to the word in Arabic bible? Do we say you worship god?

Fact 4. Contrary to jejune postulations by blabs and co, no prophet in the old testament called Jehovah God "allah" (this includes Abraham, Moses, Isaiah et all), neither did the new testament christians ever refer to GOD as "allah"

What did OT & NT prophets called him in their languages please? Youy be dullard, how come we have the same word that has been giving you slelepness night in your bible?
Are the authors insane to have put the word or Arabs wrote the book and sytematically put the word there? Olodo

Fact 5. Since there is no known correlation (amongst the prophets) between the biblical Jehovah God and "allah", it is safe to state that christians and muslims do not worship the same "God"

My dullard friend, how come the word exist in your bible? Are your authors not intelligent enough to have decipher the truth?

Fact 6. The Ka`ba was a house devoted for the worship of the sun, the moon and the planets in the pre-mohammed era. You know what it is being used for now, right?

Facts please my lying friend

Fact 7. The feminine form of "allah" is called "allat" . Any explanation for this?

Liar provide your source please

Fact 8. Mohammed introduced no new god to arabians. He only ascended the status of "allah" from a minor god (in comparison with the moon and the sun) to the main god in arabia.

If he had introduced another god, why did he kicked against idol worshipping and Allah did that too in the Quran? Why do we have the word in your BIBLE?

Fact 9. Who/what is Sabean and Mineam? Pre-mohammed "allah" had 3 daughters who were worshipped along with him. They are al`-Uzzah (power), al-Lat (the goddess), and Manah (fate) why are they now not acknowledged in present day islam?

Liar, I have treated this times without number. The verses exposed you further:


Q53 v 19: Have ye seen Lat. and 'Uzza,

Q53 v 20: And another, the third (goddess), Manat?

Q53 v 21: What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Q53 v 22: Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

Q53 v 123: These are nothing but names which ye have devised,- ye and your fathers,- for which Allah has sent down no authority (whatever). They follow nothing but conjecture and what their own souls desire!- Even though there has already come to them Guidance from their Lord!

Al-Lat was a white stone with inscriptions on. There was a house built around Al-Lat in At-Ta'if with curtains, servants and a sacred courtyard around it. The people of At-Ta'if, the tribe of Thaqif and their allies, worshipped Al-Lat. They would boast to Arabs, except the Quraysh, that they had Al-Lat.

Muhammad bin Ishaq narrated, "Al-Lat belonged to the tribe of Thaqif in the area of At-Ta'if. Banu Mu`attib were the custodians of Al-Lat and its servants.'' I say that the Prophet sent Al-Mughirah bin Shu`bah and Abu Sufyan Sakhr bin Harb to destroy Al-Lat.

Al-`Uzza was a tree on which the idolators placed a monument and curtains, in the area of Nakhlah, between Makkah and At-Ta'if. The Quraysh revered Al-`Uzza.'' During the battle of Uhud, Abu Sufyan said, "We have Al-`Uzza, but you do not have Al-`Uzza.

Manat was another idol in the area of Mushallal near Qudayd, between Makkah and Al-Madinah. The tribes of Khuza`ah, Aws and Khazraj used to revere Manat during the time of Jahiliyyah. They used to announce Hajj to the Ka`bah from next to Manat.

An-Nasa'i recorded that Abu At-Tufayl said, "When the Messenger of Allah conquered Makkah, he sent Khalid bin Al-Walid to the area of Nakhlah where the idol of Al-`Uzza was erected on three trees of a forest. Khalid cut the three trees and approached the house built around it and destroyed it. When he went back to the Prophet and informed him of the story, the Prophet said to him, (Go back and finish your mission, for you have not finished it.) Khalid went back and when the custodians who were also its servants of Al-`Uzza saw him, they started invoking by calling Al-`Uzza! When Khalid approached it, he found a naked woman whose hair was untidy and who was throwing sand on her head. Khalid killed her with the sword and went back to the Messenger of Allah.

Fact 10. Islam by the deeds and inactions of mohammed was conceived in idolatry, as there is no connection between allah and Jehovah God. That explains certain traditions and convictions of islam.

Liar.
Furnish your proof

"allah" is not and cannot be the God of the bible, allah had three daughters, the God of the bible had ONE begotten Son called JESUS.

They are not and cannot be the same.

I have replied, you only need to read again withouty being biased.

@ blabs
thou brainwashed slave of allah, which of my questions did u answer?

babs787:

@Noetic
I have replied, you only need to read again withouty being biased.

read what? the next to nonsense rubbish u just posted. u must be crazy, if u expect me to read that again.

noetic is expecting a response from blabs? you might as well wait until a rock soaks water.

noetic:

why be an hypocrite?

No need to ask irrelavant question cos your hypocricy here doesnt apply too me.

noetic:

why not ask ur brethrens to stop the peddling of falsehood and derogatory claims about sacred christian beliefs.

If a muslim can deduce from his knowledge that Jesus is NOT God and was not crucified (which contradicts my beliefs) and also that the bible is "corrupt"then I should be able to deduce from my knowledge and the numerous obtainable evidences that:

See the fact remains these issues you raise are the very reason why muslims are muslims and christains are christians. The divinity of jesus and crucifiction is the main difference between the faiths and it did not stem from any muslim on this forum rather it is the core islamic belief. These difference and irreconcilable and i dont understand how this will lead you to call the prophet of islam names or call God with those derogatory names. I am not combative and not ready to go into any verbal combat. All i am saying is be civil and matured all these name calling is offensive to say the least.

These differences you are dwelling on has been there for 1430 years and so how does this justify the personal attack on the prophet of islam (PBUH).

Pls my guy be humble enough to accept insults has no place here. If any muslim does so as well i would call him to order.

q

i live for the day we'll have a thread to ourselves on this section without these "believers" infiltrating the thread with their arrogance and insults. as much as i hate exchanging words on this forum, i cant keep quiet on this statement. . .

considering that he did it in the name of allah, allah must have been an idiot, and a very inhuman thing.

@ noetic, if you dont you've think you've gone overboard with that statement, then you're no better than an atheist. you claim Muslims attack your section,

how many christian bashing threads were started by us.

how many times do we rudely interrupt your discussions, and most importantly

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE CALLED GOD DEROGATORY NAMES JUST TO BUTTRESS OUR POINT

you can reply with at least three posts to each question.

Lagosboy:

No need to ask irrelavant question cos your hypocricy here doesnt apply too me.

See the fact remains these issues you raise are the very reason why muslims are muslims and christains are christians. The divinity of jesus and crucifiction is the main difference between the faiths and it did not stem from any muslim on this forum rather it is the core islamic belief. These difference and irreconcilable and i dont understand how this will lead you to call the prophet of islam names or call God with those derogatory names. I am not combative and not ready to go into any verbal combat. All i am saying is be civil and matured all these name calling is offensive to say the least.

These differences you are dwelling on has been there for 1430 years and so how does this justify the personal attack on the prophet of islam (PBUH).

Pls my guy be humble enough to accept insults has no place here. If any muslim does so as well i would call him to order.

I sense some genuity in ur intentions and postulations but u are definitely off the mark.

The differences between christian and muslim beliefs are as old as u claim. While my opinion on allah and mohammed sound blasphemous and irresponsible to u, thats exactly what islamic opinions about Jesus sound to me.

without complicating matters, I believe that I have being as objective as I can possibly be.
It has been proven on this thread, that allah was worshipped before the birth of mohammed. he had 3 daughters and a feminine form called "allat"
And also that mohammed had a sexual relationship with a 9 year old girl.

This two facts are the basis of my opinion. While I had/have no intention of upsetting anyone, but just like everyone else I am entitled to raise conclusions from this facts. this conclusions constitute my opinion that mohammed is a paedophile for having sexual relations with an underage girl and allah was merely one of the numerous gods of arabia like the moon and the sun. And that allah is NOT the christian GOD.

I am humble enough to understand ur angst against my opinion, be humble enough to respect my opinion too.

dominique:

i live for the day we'll have a thread to ourselves on this section without these "believers" infiltrating the thread with their arrogance and insults. as much as i hate exchanging words on this forum, i cant keep quiet on this statement. . .

@ noetic, if you dont you've think you've gone overboard with that statement, then you're no better than an atheist. you claim Muslims attack your section,

how many christian bashing threads were started by us.

how many times do we rudely interrupt your discussions, and most importantly

HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE CALLED GOD DEROGATORY NAMES JUST TO BUTTRESS OUR POINT

you can reply with at least three posts to each question.

Just go to the religious section and use the google toolbox there to search for "olobowale" and "babs787", there u will find hundreds of thread instigated by muslims, guilty of ur assertions.

@Noetic & Davidylan

I am not surprised at your inferiority complex. I found out that you are just like David, making denials when answers are being supplied and not able to support his denials with facts. Bird of a feather

Search my posts and see me backing my posts with facts both from the bible and the Quran. How many facts have you been able to provide for your lies here? I asked you questions in your thrash but you couldnt. You may check my posts in response to your lies.
Again, I dont argue without facts and have you been able to answer the simple questions from your bible. Go read my posts where I engaged most of your people and would realize the truth. Your elder brother too couldnt after exposing his false prophecies. I was like you before my reversion and pray that your eyes be opened before it would be too late. I dont post without facts, I have engaged those older and intelligent that you here so you that was born yesterday couldnt even answer simple questions. Dont worry, very soon its my kid that would engage you here. I dont have time for your infantile unintelligent posts. Your elder brothers in the like of Olaadegbu, Tayod etc and sisters in the like of Babyosis here know me better when it comes to debate. A word is enough for the wise

noetic:

Just go to the religious section and use the google toolbox there to search for "olobowale" and "babs787", there u will find hundreds of thread instigated by muslims, guilty of ur assertions.

i knew there was no way you're going to provide any reasonable answer. you're so predictable.

babs787:

@Noetic & Davidylan

I am not surprised at your[b] inferiority complex[/b]. I found out that you are just like David, making denials when answers are being supplied and not able to support his denials with facts. Bird of a feather

Search my posts and see me backing my posts with facts both from the bible and the Quran. How many facts have you been able to provide for your lies here? I asked you questions in your thrash but you couldnt. You may check my posts in response to your lies.
Again, I dont argue without[b] facts[/b] and have you been able to answer the simple questions from your bible. Go read my posts where I engaged most of your people and would realize the truth. Your elder brother too couldnt after exposing his false prophecies. I was like you before my reversion and pray that your eyes be opened before it would be too late. I dont post without facts, I have engaged those older and intelligent that you here so you that was born yesterday couldnt even answer simple questions. Dont worry, very soon its my kid that would engage you here. I dont have time for your infantile unintelligent posts. Your elder brothers in the like of Olaadegbu, Tayod etc and sisters in the like of Babyosis here know me better when it comes to debate. A word is enough for the wise

what does inferiority complex mean?
what are facts?

u are just a deluded goon and a bloody slave of "allah".

did mohammed not have sex with a 9 year old girl? YES OR NO
did bin laden not kill in the name of the blood thirsty allah?
who was the allah that mohammed`s father was worhipping?
can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES OR NO
can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed? YES OR NO

all u have been doing is to rant, unless and until u answer my questions objectively, i will only continue to see a retarded goon, who serves the antediluvian idol called allah.

dominique:

i knew there was no way you're going to provide any reasonable answer. you're so predictable.

how can my answer be reasonable, considering that u are biased and unwilling to see beyond the scope of allah and mohammed.

Take up my challenge and use the google tool bar in the religion section. search for "olobowale" and "babs". That would answer ur misinformed assertions.

@noetic,

keep going on and on about the morality of paedophilic act of mo. It is obvious and deducible that mohammed encouraged this despicable crime against womanhood and humanity. This has today become a norm in many islamic states

I believe if not for hatred, the most dullard person will understand my little explanation. Your posting here has just been an interesting one, and I will tell you why. Whereas, most of your accusation has been cleared.

,the links below can help u know better.

http://www.womenscampaigninternational.org/2009/04/saudi-arabia-to-review-underage-marriage-laws/
http://iperceive.net/underage-marriage-under-fire-in-saudi-arabia/
http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/14/saudi.child.marriage/index.html
http://xrdarabia.org/2009/02/08/saudis-reconsider-underage-marriage/
http://www.freemuslims.org/news.php?id=4413
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2009/04/saudi-arabia-court-refuses-to-nix-8yearolds-marriage-to-60yearold.html
http://www.petitiononline.com/farivar/petition.html
http://www.islam-watch.org/Eka/Marriage.htm
http://en.afrik.com/article14723.html
http://www.pambazuka.org/en/category/wgender/50527
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1465336.php/Indonesian_cleric_arrested_over_underage_marriage_
http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090214/FOREIGN/70325186/1011/ART

See, i have read enough of them, just present your fact here with ref from bible, Quran and historical books. These are just mere propa
ganda.

Fine.
Can u give ur 6 year old daughter to court mr mohammed? YES or NO
can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed?  YES or NO
can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed?  YES or NO

If u can answer yes to all these questions, then it is deducible that this are norms in islam, a weakling like me can never understand.
And I refuse to serve a god who encourages this despicable act.

At times, I read your posts, I just keep on laughing. You demonstrated an intelligence here compare to mine when I was a bit younger, and believe me, I ve been used to this kind of question. See, My grand father used to tell me different kinds of his historical life, both expriences and exposure but some times I used to disagree, though later I started believing him. In some of these, which I am going to relate here: he said, "my father walk from Nigeria to saudi arabia for pilgrimage", Now the question up to you, neotic. Can you walk from Lagos to saudi Arabia? YES/NO. If you can, then analyse how the journey could be, what are pros and cons. If you ve ever hear about such journey, what are the lesson from it compare to the present generation. When you answer that question, then I believe we need an issue to iron out concerning marrying a young girl as small as 9. The same way we are going to analyse different kinds of young girls from the present generations and the previous generations regionalwise. See, you dont need to see thinks like a so called cunning man who think on the day of judgement if God throw him into fire he would overfly out of it. "Won lolohun mbo, on weyin, eyin longba bo ni?"

Quote
NOTE: The pedophilia in the bible was quite different, because girls were raped at 3-years of age by Moses and his men. What a lie against God's prophet.
where in the bible was this recorded?

I am not here to start analysing such dirty stories. You better not base your belief on proxy pastors, read it yourself or you manufacture your own bible: Numbers 31:7,17-18;Numbers 31:35-40 (Talmud specifically stated three years old)

Quote
Now if I may asked you a question, how old was Jesus mother when she conceived Jesus?
I cant find that in my bible, so u tell me.

I know you can't find it, however, you're seriously concern about Aisha's age of the then generation to the present situation. If someone tell you Mary was between 12 and 14 then. Will you give your 12 years old daughter to Joseph of 90 to marry now?

Fact 1. Before Mohammed came, arabians were worshipping 360 idols in kabal, one for each day and "allah" was one of them.

Then, jesus could have been calling the same Allah has Eloi, Eloi. I think I ask you question on this which you forget to answer?

Fact 2. Mohammed`s father worshipped this "allah", before the birth of mohammed. This can be deduced from his name abdallah. which means servant of allah.

Haba Noetic! why so nice and unpleasant logic. If I started dragging this with you, believe me, you will have no answers to hundreds of questions I will begin to posts.

1. If my name is Ifalolu, to a lay man, these is a coin two words. "Ifa" is a trad diety and "olu" from oluwa is lord/god, known from traditional perspective. I asked you a question what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. if I may put you right, your problem is ABDULAH(servant/slave of god/God). Let me first post a question to you. Anyalyse this common statement or let a muslim scholar anaylse it for you. LAILAHI ILA ALAH.

3. The ffg explanation may give you an hint on the above two question. Every idolators, community prior to religious knowledge relating language semanticism has a way to describe thier gods. In Arab, idolatory gods is named is ilahi(just like god in english), Holy Kahaba was named bitul-lahi(House of gods) in pre Islamic Era. Just like yoruba would say ORISALA/OLU. Now consider your logical reasoning and this analysis, how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

Moreso, before Islam, traditional jewish bible has started been translated to Arabic bible then. e.g “man yaqdiru an yaghfira khataya illa ALLAH” (Luke 5:21 in Arabic). Moreso, to your own reasoning, why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now and why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?

Fact 3. allah is the coining of two words meaning "al" and "llah" meaning "the" "god". I will deduce from this that whoever coined the name "allah" was referring to one of the 360 gods in existence then. My deduction is buttressed by history.

I think you understand Arabic more than the speakers. You can now start analysing the language you dont have a basic knowldge about it in both syntax and semantic.

Fact 4.  Contrary to jejune postulations by blabs and co, no prophet in the old testament called Jehovah God "allah" (this includes Abraham, Moses, Isaiah et all), neither did the new testament christians ever refer to GOD as "allah"

Just read through the thread

Fact 5. Since there is no known correlation (amongst the prophets) between the biblical Jehovah God and "allah", it is safe to state that christians and muslims do not worship the same "God"

Hence, to your safely conclussion, never going to be equal coz three in one is different from one in one. Then, why your probs?

Fact 6. The Ka`ba was a house devoted for the worship of the sun, the moon and the planets in the pre-mohammed era. You know what it is being used for now, right?

Not only moon and sun, just say many idols, the house built by Abraham. What is being used for right now is very glaring, this is just a kidding question.

Fact 7. The feminine form of "allah" is called "allat" . Any explanation for this?

Like Sango and Oya. Site your ref, the hadith, Quran and historical books.

Fact 8. Mohammed introduced no new god to arabians. He only ascended the status of "allah" from a minor god (in comparison with the moon and the sun) to the main god in arabia.

Why then, they against him?

Fact 9. Who/what is Sabean and Mineam? Pre-mohammed "allah" had 3 daughters who were worshipped along with him. They are al`-Uzzah (power), al-Lat (the goddess), and Manah (fate) why are they now not acknowledged in present day islam?

Your question here seem filmsy.

Fact 10. Islam by the deeds and inactions of mohammed was conceived in idolatry, as there is no connection between allah and Jehovah God. That explains certain traditions and convictions of islam.

The statement is from you, neither from Jesus nor from Moses. 

"allah" is not and cannot be the God of the bible, allah had three daughters, the God of the bible had ONE begotten Son called JESUS.

They are not  and cannot be the same.

Your god has begotten son like you and me! that is in christianity. In Islam, Quran says Allah has no beggotten son neither was he beggeth. So why your conclusion? why you want to teach me my faith?

what does inferiority complex mean?
what are facts?

The facts are here, however, you can't see it. I told you this earlier, untill you cure your ailment.

u are just a deluded goon and a bloody slave of "allah".

Like that of your bloody great grandfathers sold to America for rice plantation.

did mohammed not have sex with a 9 year old girl? YES OR NO
did bin laden not kill in the name of the blood thirsty allah?
who was the allah that mohammed`s father was worhipping?
can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES OR NO
can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed? YES OR NO

Just answer my question, then we discuss further.

all u have been doing is to rant, unless and until u answer my questions objectively, i will only continue to see a retarded goon, who serves the antediluvian idol called allah.

See, do you have worst names ever ascribe to us? The GOONS are here.  What  of you?

littleb:

@noetic,
I believe if not for hatred, the most dullard person will understand my little explanation. Your posting here has just been an interesting one, and I will tell you why. Whereas, most of your accusation has been cleared.

You have cleared absolutely NONE of the issues I raised. All u are doing is called an unintelligent diversion of the issues at stake.

See, i have read enough of them, just present your fact here with ref from bible, Quran and historical books. These are just mere propa
ganda.

Did u say propaganda? does ur religion not proclaim sharia? are the links up there not evidences of the heinous crimes commited in the name of sharia?

YOU ARE AN HYPOCRITE if all u can do is to dismiss those links and call it propaganda. Those are the evidences of modern reality.
I never expected u to walk away from them, I expected an honest explanation. Perhaps its better I start ignoring u like blabs.

objectivity is ideal in any engaging debate.

At times, I read your posts, I just keep on laughing. You demonstrated an intelligence here compare to mine when I was a bit younger, and believe me, I ve been used to this kind of question. See, My grand father used to tell me different kinds of his historical life, both expriences and exposure but some times I used to disagree, though later I started believing him. In some of these, which I am going to relate here: he said, "my father walk from Nigeria to saudi arabia for pilgrimage", Now the question up to you, neotic. Can you walk from Lagos to saudi Arabia? YES/NO. If you can, then analyse how the journey could be, what are pros and cons. If you ve ever hear about such journey, what are the lesson from it compare to the present generation. When you answer that question, then I believe we need an issue to iron out concerning marrying a young girl as small as 9. The same way we are going to analyse different kinds of young girls from the present generations and the previous generations regionalwise. See, you dont need to see thinks like a so called cunning man who think on the day of judgement if God throw him into fire he would overfly out of it. "Won lolohun mbo, on weyin, eyin longba bo ni?"

u must have been very foolish as a younger person and there is no evidence to prove that u are now wiser.

To answer ur question, NO, YOU CANNOT WALK FROM NIGERIA TO SAUDI ARABIA.

So can u pls answer my own questions now:

Can u give ur 6 year old daughter to court mr mohammed? YES or NO

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed?  YES or NO

can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed?  YES or NO

did mohammed not have sex with a 9 year old girl? YES OR NO

did bin laden not kill in the name of the blood thirsty allah?

who was the allah that mohammed`s father was worhipping?

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES OR NO

I am not here to start analysing such dirty stories. You better not base your belief on proxy pastors, read it yourself or you manufacture your own bible: Numbers 31:7,17-18;Numbers 31:35-40 (Talmud specifically stated three years old)

This are the verses you pasted.
Numbers 31:7
7 They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man.

Numbers 31 17-18
17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Numbers 31:35-40
35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.

36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was:
       337,500 sheep, 37 of which the tribute for the LORD was 675;

38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the LORD was 72;

39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the LORD was 61;

40 16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32.


Where in these verses did Moses sleep with a 3 year old like u claimed?
Henceforth u are a LIAR and a very deceptive and moronic slave of allah.
You cannot justify mohammed`s lustful paedophilic peccadilloes by telling spurious lies from the bible.

Live with the absolute reality, mohammed slept with a 9 year old girl, he is as such a paedophile. A blood thirsty one for that matter.

I know you can't find it, however, you're seriously concern about Aisha's age of the then generation to the present situation. If someone tell you Mary was between 12 and 14 then. Will you give your 12 years old daughter to Joseph of 90 to marry now?

where in the bible or koran was it recorded that mary was 12 years old when she had Jesus? until u produce this evidence, u are a spurious liar.

Then, jesus could have been calling the same Allah has Eloi, Eloi. I think I ask you question on this which you forget to answer?

Eloi Eloi IS NOT "allah".
since ur koran claimed He did not die or was not crucified, how could He have called allah on the cross?
check ur story. . . . .thou lying slave of allah.

Haba Noetic! why so nice and unpleasant logic.
If my name is Ifalolu, to a lay man, these is a coin two words and opposite. "Ifa" is a trad diety and "olu" from oluwa is lord/god, known from traditional perspective. You can have so many lords but only one GOD. This has been known historically, right from existence of man on earth. Arabians idolators akin to several other idolators known that there exist a known one that is hidden, all the idols are a mere intercessors to the hidden one. Moreso, before Islam, traditional jewish bible has started been translated to Arabic bible then.  “man yaqdiru an yaghfira khataya illa ALLAH” (Luke 5:21 in Arabic). Moreso, to your own cursory reasoning, why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now.

I must say that ur postulations are very very very very very unintelligent and they attain the height of foolishness.

If ur name is Ifaolu. One can deduce that whoever named u ifaolu was worshipping IFA.
mohammed`s father is called abdallah, which means the messenger of allah. who was the allah he was worshipping? who was the master allah, he was serving, since his son mo had not being born then?

I think you understand Arabic more than the speakers. You can now start analysing the language you dont have a basic knowldge about it in both syntax and semantic.

unintelligent rubbish.
allah is "al" and "llah", meaning the god. refering to one of the gods of arabia. the particular god was allah. he had a wife called allat and they had three daughters.

Just read through the thread


Hence, to your safely conclussion, never going to be equal coz three in one is different from one in one. Then, why your probs?

Not only moon and sun, just say many idols, the house built by Abraham. What is being used for right now is very glaring, this is just a kidding question.



Like Sango and Oya. Site your ref, the hadith, Quran and historical books.

Why then, they against him?


Your question here seem filmsy.

The statement is from you, neither from Jesus nor from Moses. 


Your god has begotten son like you and me! that is in christianity. In Islam, Quran says Allah has no beggotten son neither was he beggeth. So why your conclusion? why you want to teach me my faith?

The facts are here, however, you can't see it. I told you this earlier, untill you cure your ailment.


Like that of your bloody great grandfathers sold to America for rice plantation.

You must be suffering from memory loss or absolute ignorance.

The allah that mohammed`s father worshipped had a wife called allat and three daughters.
who was this allah? and whats its connection to the allah of mohammed?

Just answer my question, then we discuss further.
See, do you have worst names ever ascribe to us? The GOONS are here.  What  of you?

I cant see any of ur questions that i have skipped and not answer, If there is any please highlight them.
On the contrary please answer my simple yes or no questions. . . . . .thou slave of allah.

@noetic, I think I miss this in my previous post:

Fact 2. Mohammed`s father worshipped this "allah", before the birth of mohammed. This can be deduced from his name abdallah. which means servant of allah.

Haba Noetic! why so nice and unpleasant logic. If I started dragging this with you, believe me, you will have no answers to hundreds of questions I will begin to posts.

1. If my name is Ifalolu, to a lay man, these is a coin two words. "Ifa" is a trad diety and "olu" from oluwa is lord/god, known from traditional perspective. I asked you a question what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. if I may put you right, your problem is ABDULAH(servant/slave of god/God). Let me first post a question to you. Anyalyse this common statement or let a muslim scholar anaylse it for you. LAILAHI ILA ALAH.

3. The ffg explanation may give you an hint on the above two question. Every idolators, community prior to religious knowledge relating language semanticism has a way to describe thier gods. In Arab, idolatory gods is named is ilahi(just like god in english), Holy Kahaba was named bitul-lahi(House of gods) in pre Islamic Era. Just like yoruba would say ORISALA/OLU. Now consider your logical reasoning and this analysis, how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

Moreso, before Islam, traditional jewish bible has started been translated to Arabic bible then. e.g “man yaqdiru an yaghfira khataya illa ALLAH” (Luke 5:21 in Arabic). Moreso, to your own reasoning, why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now and why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?

littleb:

@noetic, I think I miss this in my previous post:
Haba Noetic! why so nice and unpleasant logic. If I started dragging this with you, believe me, you will have no answers to hundreds of questions I will begin to posts.

1. If my name is Ifalolu, to a lay man, these is a coin two words. "Ifa" is a trad diety and "olu" from oluwa is lord/god, known from traditional perspective. I asked you a question what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. if I may put you right, your problem is ABDULAH(servant/slave of god/God). Let me first post a question to you. Anyalyse this common statement or let a muslim scholar anaylse it for you. LAILAHI ILA ALAH.

3. The ffg explanation may give you an hint on the above two question. Every idolators, community prior to religious knowledge relating language semanticism has a way to describe thier gods. In Arab, idolatory gods is named is ilahi(just like god in english), Holy Kahaba was named bitul-lahi(House of gods) in pre Islamic Era. Just like yoruba would say ORISALA/OLU. Now consider your logical reasoning and this analysis, how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

Moreso, before Islam, traditional jewish bible has started been translated to Arabic bible then. e.g “man yaqdiru an yaghfira khataya illa ALLAH” (Luke 5:21 in Arabic). Moreso, to your own reasoning, why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now and why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?

how does this answer any of my questions?

noetic:

how does this answer any of my questions?

Which of your questions? i think I am expecting better and detail response.

@ noetic,

maybe I should put it straight. I thought if I dont explain, you will ask for ref:

1. what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. Anlyse the words "LAILAHI ILA ALAH"

3. how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

4. why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now

5. why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?

littleb:

@ noetic,

maybe I should put it straight. I thought if I dont explain, you will ask for ref:

1. what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. Anlyse the words "LAILAHI ILA ALAH"

3. how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

4. why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now

5. why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?

what nonsense is this, after answering ur initial questions why do u find it difficult to answer mine?

littleb:

Which of your questions? i think I am expecting better and detail response.

Can u give ur 6 year old daughter to court mr mohammed? YES or NO

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES or NO

can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed? YES or NO

did mohammed not have sex with a 9 year old girl? YES OR NO

did bin laden not kill in the name of the blood thirsty allah?

who was the allah that mohammed`s father was worhipping?

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES OR NO

Where in the verses u stated did Moses sleep with a 3 year old like u claimed?

where in the bible or koran was it recorded that mary was 12 years old when she had Jesus?

since ur koran claimed He did not die or was not crucified, how could He have called allah on the cross?

The allah that mohammed`s father worshipped had a wife called allat and three daughters.
who was this allah? and whats its connection to the allah of mohammed?

noetic:

Can u give ur 6 year old daughter to court mr mohammed? YES or NO

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES or NO

can u leave ur 9 year old daughter in the same room with mr mohammed? YES or NO

did mohammed not have sex with a 9 year old girl? YES OR NO

did bin laden not kill in the name of the blood thirsty allah?

who was the allah that mohammed`s father was worhipping?

can u marry off ur 9 year old daughter to mr mohammed? YES OR NO

Where in the verses u stated did Moses sleep with a 3 year old like u claimed?

where in the bible or koran was it recorded that mary was 12 years old when she had Jesus?

since ur koran claimed He did not die or was not crucified, how could He have called allah on the cross?

The allah that mohammed`s father worshipped had a wife called allat and three daughters.
who was this allah? and whats its connection to the allah of mohammed?

All your questions about prophet muhammad marraige with Aisha have been answerred.

Just provide response to my questions

@noetic,

I can't descend so low to your understanding before I could answer your question. Knowledgible people should have gooten it better. Did I belong to prophet Muhammad generation or the same community to the extent of asking me If I would give my 9 years old daughter to him for marraige? of course, YES, I would married my daughter 9 to him if I was of the same generation with him. Now, what is your problem with it.

Now answer my questions.

littleb:


All your questions about prophet muhammad marraige with Aisha have been answerred.

Just provide response to my questions

where? when? how? by whom?

once again

@ noetic,

maybe I should put it straight. I thought if I dont explain, you will ask for ref:

1. what is the cognates relation between olu/oluwa(yoruba), god, lord and God semantically.

2. Anlyse the words "LAILAHI ILA ALAH"

3. how would you differentiate god from God if not written down in english.

4. why there is no other translation for ELOI/ELOHIM from the bible original language up till now

5. why this word ALLAH in Arabic bible?


This is just in your logical reasoining about MO father ABDULAHI (servant of God/god)