@backslider,

Dear brother. I have just three questions for you

1. What made you conclude that Muslims worship Moon/sun?

2.Can you back your claims with evidence

3. What morality are you referring to?

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”

Hmmm,interesting
Mohammed wrote them while possesed of the devil?

(A) In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.

wow,this allah sef

Hahahaha!
This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
A christian accusing islam of paganism?That must be the biggest joke of the new millenium.
Hahahaha!Hohohoho!

Hahahaha!
This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
A christian accusing islam of paganism?That must be the biggest joke of the new millenium.
Hahahaha!Hohohoho!

My dear delluded christian folks,christianity is as steeped in paganism as islam.
Strip christianity of all it's pagan elements,and there is nothing original left!Shioo!

BTW,what is wrong with paganism?
From all indications,it's a form of religion far superior to these two mainstream religions called christianity and islam.That is why it is the parent religion to the two.

This Jaguda man sef,
How many posts in one minute??
just to proove whut

Tell me whut is paganist

in reading the bible, praying to God
believing in the Holy Trinity
Basically obeying whut God says

I

Gamine:

Tell me whut is paganist

in reading the bible, praying to God
believing in the Holy Trinity
Basically obeying whut God says

I

The biblical god(Yahweh) that  you all pray to has his origin from paganism as well.Just because he is in the bible changes little.
The concept of the holy trinity is also very pagan.Ancient egyptian paganism to be more precise,see.
Original (Egyptian) trinity version;
-The Father(OSIRIS)
-The mother(ISIS)
-The child(HORUS)
That is free education for you.

Whut are u Saying

God existed before humans who created isis, whuteva and whuteva

How can u say The Created came before the Creator
Nawe!!

This thread reminds me of that wise saying,"IF YOU LIVE IN A GLASSHOUSE,DON'T THROW STONES".
Most of the muslims and christians on this board,unfortunately, don't even realise that they are living in glasshouses,hence all the stonethrowing,and smashing of each other's glasshouses, going on on this religion forum.

The question is,"DOES THE WORLD REALLY NEED THESE TWO SEPARATIST RELIGIONS THAT ALWAYS SEEK TO SET HUMANS AGAINST EACH OTHER?".Going by what i see on this thread everyday,methinks not.
If it is within my power,i will wipe out these two useless religions(islam and christianity) and help introduce a religion that will unite mankind in peace,love,and harmony.
These two religions are really and truely played out.

@babyosis,

Were al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat called “the daughters of Allah”? Yes.

Yusuf Ali explains in fn. 5096, pg. 1445, that Lat, Uzza and Manat were known as “the daughters of God [Allah]”

Did the Qur’an at one point tell Muslims to worship al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat? Yes. In Surah 53:19-20.

Have those verses been “abrogated” out of the present Qur’an? Yes.

What were they called? “The Satanic Verses.”

Why not be honest babyosis? Why not write the verse out for people to read.

Bring out the verse above in which Allah told muslims to worship idols.

[b]Posted by babyosis
A) In Qura’n there are at least a dozen verses in which Allah repeatedly swears by the names such as moon, sun, stars, planets, night, wind etc. It is a mystery why the creator Allah (?) should swear by his creations. Normally, we swear by the name of something much superior to us, such as we swear by God or by the name of our father (who is considered senior or superior to us). But we never swear by the name of something inferior to us. Here in the Quran swearing fashions of Allah (God) by moon or stars hinting us that Allah considered these things superior to himself. And this makes us to think (otherwise) as to who actually acted as Allah in Quran? However, in his explanation of why the Qur’an swears by the moon in Surah 74:32, “Nay, verily by the Moon,” Yusuf Alli comments, “The moon was worshipped as a deity in times of darkness”(fn. 5798, pg. 1644). Perhaps, this swearing of Allah was due to the usual/cultural habits of worshipping moon as their God in pagan customs.[/b]

A question for you here.

If muslims worship moon as deity in times of darkness, what do they worship during day time when there is no moon?

@ babs787

TO YOUR QUESTION

If muslims worship moon as deity in times of darkness, what do they worship during day time when there is no moon?

The REPRESENTATIVE OF THE MOON god KABBAH

@backslider,

My respectable brother.

We worship Allah in His Grand Temple/House.   We never worship the House itself!

The Bible's Prophets in the Bible also had a "House of GOD Almighty" that they worshiped Him in.

Also, the Jews' wailing wall today is a similar example to the Muslims' Kaaba, where the Jews pray to GOD Almighty facing the wall.


Lets check some verses

Quran 2 v 144: indeed, we see you look repeatedly towards heaven. We will make you turn towards a Qiblah that will please you. So turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque, wherever you are, turn your faces to it. Those to whom the Book was given know this to be the truth from their Lord, Allah is watching over all actions…
Quran 2 v 146: those whom we gave the book know him as they know their sons. But some of them deliberately conceal the truth. The truth is from your Lord, therefore never doubt it…
Quran 2 v 148: whichever way you depart, face towards the sacred mosque. This is surely the truth from your Lord. Allah is never headless of what you do.
Quran 2 v 149: whichever way you depart, face towards the sacred mosque and wherever you are, face towards it, so that men will have no plea against you except the evil doers among them.

Allah said we should not worship neither sun nor moon

Quran 41 v 37: among his signs are the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. BUT DO NOT PROSTRATE YOURSELVES before the sun or the moon, rather prostrates yourselves before Allah who created them both, if you would truly serve HIM

To Abraham
"Behold!  We gave the site, To Abraham, of the (Sacred) House (i.e., the Kaaba), (Saying):  'Associate not anything (In worship) with Me; And sanctify My House For those who compass it round, Or stand up, Or bow, or prostrate themselves (Therein in prayer).  And proclaim the Pilgrimage among men: they will come to thee on foot and (mounted) on every kind of camel, lean on account of journeys through deep and distant mountain highways;   (The Noble Quran, 22:26-27)"

Now brother, sorry for giving you bible verses, just to buttress my points

Ezekiel 8 v 16: and he brought me into the inner court of the house of the Lord, and behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men, with their backs to the temple of the Lord and their faces towards the east, worshipping the sun towards the east,

I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word.  (NIV Bible, Psalm 138:2)"

etc,

Do you say they are worshipping the temple because they faced it?

@brother Babs787

Yes you can quote the bible it is your moral right to do so. but you must know how to do so. The same book you condemn it is the same book and No other you use to back your claims. Why not book on Shintoism Budha or other eastern books?

The fact is that Islam is trying to cloth himself in The bible and it comes to claim that it is a book has been corrupted. You can do nothing but quote the bible.

My sadness is that You dont know what you are quoting.


Back to the Issue

Why does allah swear by what he created ?
The Quran mention the daughters of Allah

Dear brother,

You said I dont know what I am quoting. Its ok. But I asked you, if muslims worship Kaaba because they face it, what of David in the verse below. Do we say he also worshipped the Temple?

I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word. (Psalm 138:2)"

Now to the issue of quoting from the bible, you would have noticed that I have not been quoting from the books of those you mentioned simply because they are not the one I am dealing with.

It is a fact that if I quote from my Quran, you will never believe me, so I have to use what you believe in to talk to you.

If you can do likewise for me, its ok and if not, no problem.

Posted by backslider
Back to the Issue
Why does allah swear by what he created ?
The Quran mention the daughters of Allah

I already know of the above, it was raised sometime by Shahan but will want you to give me the verse(s) of the daughter of Allah and I will respond to your two questions please. Also, to you, what does the swearing mean?

Maa Salam

Backslider:

@The Quran mention the daughters of Allah

babs787:

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but will want you to give me the verse(s) of the daughter of Allah.
Maa Salam

@Backslider and blabs787 and others,
(A) Backslider mentioned the allah "daughter-gate" scandal, and blabs787 as always requests for the verse. I now provide the quranic verse and results of further research on the three daughter goddess of allah called al-lat, al-Uzza and Mannat. Enjoy:

(an-najim Sura 53:19-22):
Near is the garden of abode. Behold, the Lote-tree was shrouded in mystery unspeakable; His sight never swerved, nor did it go wrong! For truly did he see, of the signs of his Lord, the Greatest!  Have ye seen "Lat and Uzzah, And another, the third goddess, Mannat"? These are the exalted cranes (intermediates) whose intercession is to be hoped for.  What! for you the males sex, and for Him, the females? Behold, such would be a division most unfair!

[Note: muhammed later claimed that the line in red colour above was given to him by satan, and it was "deleted" from the koran, but the rest remained till today in the koran, even the names of the daughter goddesses]

(B) And now for some explanation on who or what are al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Mannat, read this:

Allah is the name of the only God in Islam. It was also the name of the chief god among the numerous idols in the Kaaba in Mecca. Many believe the word was derived from the middle eastern word "el" which in Ugaritic, Caananite and Hebrew can mean a true or false God. According to the encyclopedia of Religion, Allah corresponded to the Babylonian god Baal, and Arabs knew of him long before Muhammad worshipped him as the supreme. Allah was the god of the local Qurish tribe of whom was Muhammad's tribe before he invented Islam to lead his people out of their polytheism. Allah was known as the Moon God, of which he had 3 daughters who were viewed as intercessors for the people into Allah. Their names were Al-Lat, Al-uzza, and Al-Manat, which were three goddesses. Hubal (Ba3l) was the chief God of the Kaaba among the other 360 deities. The Kaabah in Mecca is also named Beit-Allah (House of Allah). The Koran Tells us that Muhammad drove the other idols away; he made one God now the only god and he was its messenger. Muhammad used the name Allah, which was of a specific idol without ever distinguishing it from the idol the Meccans were already worshipping… These names show the devotion of Muhammad's pagan roots, and also prove that Allah was part of a polythiestic system of worship before Allah was made the supreme and only god from the other God's. This should be proof to the pre Islamic root of the name of Allah to the Muslim, remember they were pagans who use this name. The crescent moon was the symbol of the moon God Allah and is used as a symbol of Islam today. Today there is "hardly" a Muslim that knows it's origin. It was an ancient pagan fertility symbol that is found throughout the middle east.

So therefore, need we say more about the idolatory called Islam?

This allah sef

@batu

Posted by batu
Backslider mentioned the allah "daughter-gate" scandal, and blabs787 as always requests for the verse.

You didnt put "h" before th word "as"
Should we call the above error of ommission or deliberate ommission? We are now seeing the real blabber.

@batu d bante & babysin,

Thanks so much for tendering your 'ignorance'. It should have been your middle name.You should have told babs to explain the verse to you rather than being childish. By the way where are those christians that have been pasting biased posts all these while? But they never see this bante quoting verse out of context.

I laugh when I read any post by Christians condemning the word “Allah” but never ponder at least for a second on why we have the word oxccuring in Arabic bibles and in seventeen (17) different languages only for the Arabs! In those bibles, there is no single place where you will find the word “God” but only Allah yet these ignorants condemned the word ‘Allah’. Those that are supposed to be accused of paganism are accusing another person of same.

The name “Allah” has been used by all Prophets since Adam until Muhammed (saw). It is a contraction of the two Arabic words “Al-Illah” i.e, “The God”. By dropping the letter “I”, you will find the word “Allah”. According to its position in an Arabic sentence it can have the form “Allaha”, which is close to the Hebrew name of the Creator, i.e “Eloha”. But the Jews wrongly use the plural form “Elohim” which denotes more than one God. The word “Allaha” sounds closer to the Aramaic word for God used by Jesus, namely “Alaha” (see Encyclopedia Britanica 1980 under ‘Allah” and “Elohim”.


Now to the verse

One common argument or claim put forth by Christians today is that the Quran claims that Allah has 3 daughters, those daughters being the pagan godesses of Lat, Manat, and Al-Uzza. Does the Quran actually state that Allah has three daughters?

Quran 53 V19: Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan arabs)

Quran 53V20: And Manat (another idol of the pagan arabs), the other third?

Christians love to quote these two verses and then stop, the question I will ask both of you now is 'why do you stop there? Is your holy spirit too afraid to quote the rest of the passages? Since you all claim to be inspired by the holy spirit then what is the holy spirit hiding here? Let us now quote the rest of the passages:

Quran 53 v 21
What! for you the male sex, and for Him, the female?

Quran 53 v 22
Behold, such would be indeed a division most unfair!

Quran 53 v 23
V23: They are but names which you have named – you and your fathers – for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the Guidance from their Lord!

So had you care to carry on,you would have seen that Allah exposes you making such a lie! Allah tells you that the pagans have invented these false idols, and that it is something corrupt.

Why not quote the rest? In fact I will not hold you responsible for such deceit, but I will hold the holy spirit responsible. Christians claim the holy spirit inspires them, if that is true then the holy spirit is inspiring them to be untruthful, and to be distorters of truth, and to try and make up a lie. And such actions cannot be coming from a holy being, rather such action is inspired by someone called satan, because only satan inspires people to make a lie against Allah and his Noble Quran.

So keep it up with your Satan friend and continue wallowing in your ignorance and quoting out of context.

So I leave you with these questions

1. What language did jesus speak?
2. Is Jesus aware of the name 'God'?
3. Why the use of the name "Allah" for "God" in Arabic bibles?
3. Is God of the OT the same as that of NT?

When you have time, go through the verses quoted for you hereunder:

Quran 53 v 1: By the star when it goes down (or vanishes)

V2: Your companion (Muhammed saw) has neither gone astray nor has erred.

V3: Nor does he speak of (his own) desire

V4: It is only a Revelation revealed

V5: He has been taught (this Quran) by one mighty in power (Jibril)

V6: One free from any defect in the body and mind then he (Jibril) rose and became stable

V7: While he (Jibril-Gabriel) was in the highest part of the horizon,

V8: Then he (Jibril) approached and came closer

V9: And was at a distance of two bows’ length or (even) near

V10: So Allah revealed to His slave (Muhammed saw) through Jibril (Gabriel) whatever he revealed.

V11: The (Prophet’s) heart lied in what he (Muhammed saw) saw.

V12: Will you then dispute with him (Muhammed) about what he saw (during the ascension to the seven heavens)

V13: And indeed he (Muhammed saw) saw him (Gabriel) at a second descent (i.e. another time)

V14: Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (a lote tree of the utmost boundary over the seventh haven beyond which none can pass)

V15: Near it is the Paradise of Abode

V16: When that covered the lot-tree which did cover it

V17: The sight (of Prophet Muhammed saw) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond the limit (ordained for it)

V18: Indeed he (Muhammed saw) did see of the Greatest signs, of his Lord (Allah)

V19: Have you then considered Al-Lat and Al-Uzza (two idols of the pagan arabs)

V20: And Manat (another idol of the pagan arabs), the other third?

V21: Is it for you the males and for Him the females?

V22: That indeed is a division most unfair!

V23: They are but names which you have named – you and your fathers – for which Allah has sent down no authority. They follow but a guess and that which they themselves desire, whereas there has surely come to them the Guidance from their Lord!

@batu

Posted by batu
Backslider mentioned the allah "daughter-gate" scandal, and blabs787 "as always" requests for the verse.

You didnt put "h" before th word "as"
Should we call the above error of ommission or deliberate ommission? We are now seeing the real blabber.

@ blabs787,
People like you are described as "half-literate and half illitrate" . It is so glaring that your half-education is a dangerous thing, but probably you are the most 'educated' in your neighbourhood. See 'olodo' trying to correct English with a bigger error: "as always" is a short phrase referring to "as you blabs always do"; which is to ask questions because you have no information. But to you, the 'son-of-Adedibu blabs787', the correct phrase should have been "has always", abi? You are quite an intellectually indolent fellow; like father like son; you are a product of amala education.

Now to the idols you worship, Allah(i.e Hubal), and the daughters al-Lat, al-Uzzah and Manat; so what's the difference between the revised version you posted and the one I posted before?. Dont you see that no amount of your incomprehensible 'shakara' can hide the truth? Even, more intelligent and pious Oustasses than you try to defend it by saying "it was a slip of Muhammed's tongue caused by Satan" when 'Allah' was giving him the verses; how stupid! Imagine a true prophet of the true God being deceived by Satan, No way! Why were they abrogated and then revised? Use the educated half of your brain, blabs787 and stop making a big fool of yourself. Try and make your folks proud! You are not up to the level of the peoples on this forum with your defective intellect.

Why not check out this links for further information regarding your idols worshipped by Muhammed and the rest of you:
http://www.muslimhope.com/DaughtersOfAllah.htm

Thanks batu,blabs thinks he can deceive people any longer.
read this from the site above,what allah originally told mo before he conquered the pagans when he was wooing converts to his new religion and even said Christians were friends of his and then changed it when he gained superiority over then and then claimed Mo was possesed by the devil when he wrote it.
blabs we know what the passage now says,what did it originally say?

[b]What Did the Qur’an Originally Say?


The Star Sura (Sura 53) verses 19-20 say, "Have ye seen Lat, and ‘Uzza, And another, the third (goddess), Manat?"


Allah was prominent in Pre-Islamic Arabia, as a god with three daughters: al-Lat, al-Uzza, and Manat. (Note that al- means "the".)


The four early biographers of Muhammad wrote that they verses originally were followed by:


"These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries) Whose intercession is to be hoped for."


Interpretation: Allah’s daughters were considered heavenly beings of intercessors. High altitude Numidian cranes were a metaphor for them. An alternate reading for "is to be hoped for" (turtaja) is "is accepted with approval" (turtada). (From Alfred Guillaume’s translation of Ibn Ishaq’s The Life of Muhammad p.166.


Later, this passage was taken out and the following was put in its place:


"What! For you the male sex, And for him, the female? Behold, such would be Indeed a division Most unfair." (verses 53:21-22 today)


Interpretation: Those who believed in Allah’s three daughters were unfair toward Allah, since they all preferred sons yet said that Allah had only daughters.


These are what have been termed "The Satanic Verses". In modern times Salmon Rushdie used only this term as the title in his unrelated and fictional "novel", and this paper does not discuss that modern tale. As for the original Satanic verses, how can an objective Muslim or non-Muslim tell which verses were originally in? The rest of this paper gives direct and indirect evidence that the Satanic verses were originally there, and nine Muslim objections.[/b]

@ batu d bante

You are really very intelligent. Na wa o. Alao Akala, you think you can deceive babs.

Read your first post below
Backslider mentioned the allah "daughter-gate" scandal, and blabs787 as always requests for the verse.

You are adding inverted comma to 'as always" giving it a different meaning. Did you in anyway put it in your first sentence. Why dont you admit your mistake, I have agreed that it was an error of ommission. Why lying and deceving babyosis?

Why the 'as always'? Have I asked you the question before Alao Akala?



@babyosis & batu,

I can even help laughing. You first came accusing muslims of worshipping the Moon, You were corrected. You later changed gear and accused us of worshipping the Sun, you claim was also debunked. You moved to muslims worshipping kaaba, you allegation was also refuted. You were not satisfied and came with another false allegation that Allah has daughters in which babs answered you. Na wa o. I am looking forward to what you will come up with again. I have checked all the Quran I have, there is nothing like your false allegation. So I am resting the case unless if my respectable brother has question for me.

Do you think the Quran is like the bible where the originally manuscript cannot be accounted for? How many times have I showed babyosis websites showing the original manuscript of the Quran?

If you have questions for me, I am always available.

Please tell me, Is God of the OT different from that of the NT.

any of you so called debunking happened on your bunk not on this forum.
This allah slave sef

@babs787


Point of correction you have not refuted anything. But because of the exchange of hard language that is why I had to step back when this arguement is over I will come and we shall finish this.

@babyosis

babyosisi:

any of you so called debunking happened on your bunk not on this forum.
This allah slave sef

Ok madam. Accepted.

Backslider:

@babs787


Point of correction you have not refuted anything. But because of the exchange of hard language that is why I had to step back when this arguement is over I will come and we shall finish this.

Ok brother. I will be looking forward to hearing from you

If a man believes that Jesus christ died and rose up for his justification and will confess the LORDSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST,

HE' SHALL BE SAVED.

Even if Osama believes the above he'll be waving to u ALLAH guyz from heaven on that day, so make a decision today.

Jesus is at the door of ur heart knocking irrespective of how GOOD OR BAD U ARE!

@topic

You're right. Allah is the Moon God of the ancient Arab pagan religion. An impersonation of God.

Facts are facts whether we like them or not. The Arabic word for God is NOT "Allah" but "Ilah". 'Allah' is a contration of two words 'al' which means 'the' and 'ilah' which means 'god' - whether small capital or small capital, it is the same. In the Quran, Muhammad says he has been commanded to worship "the god of this city (Mecca)" Each Arabian town had its own territorial god. If a Muslim disagrees with this, we would help them go to the archive and dig out facts - some from the Qur'an. We don't need to defend our faith just because we are devoted to it. If does not stand the test of historical facts, we would be sensible enough to say, "OK, I see. I must rethink."

ibnsalam:

Facts are facts whether we like them or not. The Arabic word for God is NOT "Allah" but "Ilah". 'Allah' is a contration of two words 'al' which means 'the' and 'ilah' which means 'god' - whether small capital or small capital, it is the same. In the Quran, Muhammad says he has been commanded to worship "the god of this city (Mecca)" Each Arabian town had its own territorial god. If a Muslim disagrees with this, we would help them go to the archive and dig out facts - some from the Qur'an. We don't need to defend our faith just because we are devoted to it. If does not stand the test of historical facts, we would be sensible enough to say, "OK, I see. I must rethink."

hear! hear!

@IbnSalam

I am just passing but saw your posts and I felt it would be ideal to reply you. Do you have to create that kinda Id in order to deceive?

Facts are facts whether we like them or not.

Good and I need the facts, nothing but facts

The Arabic word for God is NOT "Allah" but "Ilah". 'Allah' is a contration of two words 'al' which means 'the' and 'ilah' which means 'god' - whether small capital or small capital, it is the same.

How do you arrive at that? Remember, we all agree on serving facts. Could you honor my by giving me where you culled the above from?

In the Quran, Muhammad says he has been commanded to worship "the god of this city (Mecca)"

Do you have where it was stated precisely the way you put it up? Remember, we need facts

Each Arabian town had its own territorial god.

Good and are you referring to present Arabia or during Jahiliyah?

If a Muslim disagrees with this, we would help them go to the archive and dig out facts

Please, let me have it from your archive.

- some from the Qur'an.

Let me have your facts from the Quran as well

We don't need to defend our faith just because we are devoted to it.

What faith are you defending? Have you researched your religion yourself or base your argument, believe on what you are being told?

If does not stand the test of historical facts, we would be sensible enough to say, "OK, I see. I must rethink."

So you had better rethink and come out with something reasonable and you should know that we would not only journey through Quran alone but the Bible as well.

So brother, let me have your facts please

@Davidylan


You may assist your brother in bringing out facts for me

Checkout the facts in the powerpoint presentation in the weblink below:

http://www.evidenceforchristianity.org/images/stories/mosdl/islam1.ppt