Well, actually we do, but only in the form of Consciousness.

All appearances of form and physicality are optical and sensory ILLUSIONS.

Nothing is ''physical''. Not the ''planets'', not the Earth, not You, not your PC, and not your keyboard.

Whatever we call physical matter is composed of atoms, including our physical bodies.

Atoms are considered ''the building blocks of the physical universe''.

Yet, when examined with a powerful microscope, an atom is seen to comprise empty space.


[img]http://thm-a02.yimg.com/image/0769fd29f754a792[/img]
An Atom


The nucleus in the middle is actually very tiny in relation to the atom in reality, and was famously compared to a grain of sand in the middle of a cathedral. Even the nucleus itself has been found to be a mini-atom, ie, consisting of empty space.

Why then do we ''see'' and ''feel'' physical objects?

One reason is that what we ''see'' is really not what is there. (Or rather, is just one form of possibly billions of possible representations of what is there).

The world we see is only in existence at the back of our brain, where the electromagnetic signals picked up by our eyes, are converted into a dense 3D ''physical'' format, complete with colour and surround sound.

This is exactly the same way a TV decodes electromagnetic signals into a colourful, raucous football match, or blood-curdling gangster film.

Our bodies and brains are likewise, receivers, connected to a biological ''internet'', in which we receive and decode electromagnetic signals according to a uniform pre-determined format. Some believe the author of this format to be God, while others believe it to be a group of lower level intelligences.

If that format, or wavelength, were to be changed, we would decode those signals in an entirely different manner.


Much of what we call religion, magic, meditation, psychic power, juju, etc, are at base, attempts to override this format, or matrix - our limited five-sense straitjacket - and access other, more efficient methods of decoding reality, in order to influence/alter its physical, 3D manifestation.

Many thanks.

In other words, we are living in a programmed, simulated, 3D holographic reality,right?Welcome to the secret of the universe. 

Rossike, do you know that you are spoiling the fun for the materialist evolutionists?

funny people

@ OP -

This is brilliant, i just love the thought behind this thread and i would love to see the view of that eminent and brilliant philospher / confusionist, PASTOR AIO on this.

However let me just say this: We do exist - even if we are only the thoughts and mental projections of a universal mind (God), those thoughts are existent; in much the same whay as your imaginations exist as imaginations. Your imaginations are not nothing: they are something: and they are called: imagination. That is what they are. If they were nothing, you would not experience them in your mind at all.

One safe pointer to our existence is the observation of things not placed there by ourselves but by other beings like us who are no longer on the scene. For example: the pyramids at Giza.

If those pyramids were a function of the mind/ perception of the persons who built them only, then when they died and left the scene, newcomers such as ourselves would not perceive the structures to exist at all. Much less as pyramids.

Thus the structure is there independent of our perception.

Just as the sun is there independent of our perception.

We are the imaginations of ourselves.We are living in a conceptual universe, a thought universe, and thought is non-material.

Brilliant OP very illuminating, i once read that if we were to remove all the spaces in the atoms that make up the human body the size of the human body would be no more than a grain of sand and would still weigh the same as it were before the compaction. In other wards we and all matter are made of of mostly empty space. In this form matter beocmes very dense and it is thought to be a common phenomena in outer space. Forinstance burnt out suns are observed to be in this state and are suspected to be the source of black holes in the universe. For those that don't know what blackholes are, they are places in the universe where the gravitaional pull is so high[intense] that it draws in everything in it's vicinity and even light cannot escape it's gravitational pull. The mysteries of the universe are indeed immense and man is yet to know 0.000001% of what is within us talkless of what is out there, not even religion has a clue. But then it would be totally delusional even to the point of lunacy to assume that everything just happened by chance just becos we haven't found or discovered a rational explaination for who we are and our role in the universe.

A rational explanation is love, growth and experiencing. . .

Our physical bodies are nothing more than computer/projector unit that projects outward the physical world that we experience.

Jagunlabi said:

Our physical bodies are nothing more than computer/projector units that project outward the physical world that we experience.

I absolutely concur with this. I would go further to state that the 'physical reality' which we download from the 'Central Computer', is no different from a software program.

Some people are able to delete this program, or disable it temporarily - people such as seers, prophets, psychics, and herbalists, inserting a new software into their system, and consequently, decoding and interracting with reality in an altogether different fashion from the norm.

Also, the mere act of deep meditation is known to produce these effects.

In this software program, which we may name HumanRealityXJ5, commands, functions and variables exist which produce the ILLUSION of Density, Time and Space.

In reality there's no past and future. Linear time is an illusion.

Outside the program, Everything occurs in the eternal NOW.

This is why the Bible says that for God, ''1000 years is like a day, and a day, like 1000 years.''

This is not the case with God alone, but with all who leave their physical bodies and return home. What we foolishly call ''death''.

In reality, what we call the ''vast physical universe of billions of miles north to south'' is little more than a slightly scratched CD sitting on somebody's table. We're the little muppets in the CD, souls joined in a game which the majority have been brainwashed to assume is real, and have based their worldview and actions accordingly, to the eternal profit of Those In The Know. 

The key is knowing none of this is real.  We are Infinite Consciousness having a brief experience in an artificially  created 3D virtual reality program.

One more thing. In the afterlife, or spirit dimension, forms and shapes also exist, and are also Illusions.

Ultimate reality is consciousness in its purest form, symbolized by Thought.

Anything with form or shape - in fact anything that can be seen is an Illusion!!

Deep Sight said:

@ OP -

This is brilliant, i just love the thought behind this thread and i would love to see the view of that eminent and brilliant philospher / confusionist, PASTOR AIO on this.

However let me just say this: We do exist - even if we are only the thoughts and mental projections of a universal mind (God), those thoughts are existent; in much the same whay as your imaginations exist as imaginations. Your imaginations are not nothing: they are something: and they are called: imagination. That is what they are. If they were nothing, you would not experience them in your mind at all.

One safe pointer to our existence is the observation of things not placed there by ourselves but by other beings like us who are no longer on the scene. For example: the pyramids at Giza.

If those pyramids were a function of the mind/ perception of the persons who built them only, then when they died and left the scene, newcomers such as ourselves would not perceive the structures to exist at all. Much less as pyramids.

Thus the structure is there independent of our perception.

Just as the sun is there independent of our perception.

The pyramids under another software program could appear to the receivers, not as ''pyramids'', but as a retinue of colors, each symbolizing a thought wave.

Or a mesh of lines similar to the readings on an electrocardiogram.

The Sun could be received as little more than a pesky lightbulb, or not at all.

ROSSIKE:

Nothing is ''physical''. Not the ''planets'', not the Earth, not You, not your PC, and not your keyboard.

Why is that so - why is nothing (among all those entities) physical? What is meant by 'physical'?

I guess you could substitute physical for solid. Nothing is really ''solid''.

Think of a virtual reality game in which everything looks and feels solid and 3d. But it's just a program.

YOU are a pre-existing soul who decided to play the game as a participant in this VR program for reasons of soul development through experience.

Or we may simply be souls unwittingly trapped in a Matrix.

The conditions reproduced in these VR games, such as the one we are in, cannot exist in dimensions of Ultimate Reality and Equilibrium.

Hence the need for these games, or programs.

There could well be BILLIONS of these programs in operation, creating countless realms of virtual reality (or, ''worlds'') across the multiverse, each with its own ''laws'' and limitations.

ROSSIKE:

I guess you could substitute physical for solid. Nothing is really ''solid''.

Physical, solid. . or any other descriptive word along such ideas, I'm still asking why you affirm that nothing is physical or solid? What is meant by 'physical' or 'solid' that you assert nothing could be either of them?

You need to read the thread a bit more closely than you seem to have done. You're basically requesting that I start afresh with my postulation, something I'm not at all inclined to do. 

Jagunlabi said:

In other words, we are living in a programmed, simulated, 3D holographic reality,right?Welcome to the secret of the universe.  Wink

Rossike, do you know that you are spoiling the fun for the materialist evolutionists? Grin

I've no idea how they can continue to maintain their position with a straight face.

An atom is empty to our five senses. That, every scientist knows.

How then can something that is not solid be the 'building blocks' that construct this 'solid' wall I'm looking at now?

It can't. Our brains do it.

Materialists really have had their day.

ROSSIKE:

Jagunlabi said:

I've no idea how they can continue to maintain their position with a straight face.

An atom is empty to our five senses. That, every scientist knows.

How then can something that is not solid be the 'building blocks' that construct this 'solid' wall I'm looking at now?

It can't. Our brains do it.

Materialists really have had their day.

Don't be too sure that some folks would not contend that they can see atoms with their 5 senses and I will also like to see your reaction when you lose your wallet to pick pockets. Will you still see your hard earned cash/cards as reality or as imaginations?

I absolutely concur with this. I would go further to state that the 'physical reality' which we download from the 'Central Computer', is no different from a software program.

Thanks Rossike for your postulations. What is this central computer and who made the computer and the software program?

Some people are able to delete this program, or disable it temporarily - people such as seers, prophets, psychics, and herbalists, inserting a new software into their system, and consequently, decoding and interracting with reality in an altogether different fashion from the norm.

When seers or prophets experience dimentions or realities beyound the physical senses, is it that they have deleted or temporarily deleted physical faculties of perception as you seem to suggest or that they are using non-physical faculties of perception which have always been there but was not in use?

In this software program, which we may name HumanRealityXJ5, commands, functions and variables exist which produce the ILLUSION of Density, Time and Space.

In reality there's no past and future. Linear time is an illusion.

To describe physical realities as illusion when viewed with non physical senses is contradictory. You can only access the tangibility of physical things using physical organs of perception or instruments meant to improve on them. If you want to see an apple, then you use your eyes and if you want to see bacteria in the apple, then use your microscope. At the magnification at which you will see a bacteria, you will not be able to see an apple as apple at that maginification. Is it correct to say that an apple is an illusion just because you cannot see it as one with a microscope. It is the instrument or faculty of perception that determines what is seen and not the object that is viewed.

If in your view there is no past and future, then why should there be NOW for even NOW is a concept of "time"?

Outside the program, Everything occurs in the eternal NOW.

This is why the Bible says that for God, ''1000 years is like a day, and a day, like 1000 years.''

This is not the case with God alone, but with all who leave their physical bodies and return home. What we foolishly call ''death''.

Again, what is eternal NOW? "Time" requires a reference. What is your reference, physical, non-physical etc?

The key is knowing none of this is real.  We are Infinite Consciousness having a brief experience in an artificially  created 3D virtual reality program.

One more thing. In the afterlife, or spirit dimension, forms and shapes also exist, and are also Illusions.

Ultimate reality is consciousness in its purest form, symbolized by Thought.

Anything that can be seen is an Illusion!!

What is consciousness and what is infinite consciousness? Why does infinite consciousness need an experience of illusion as you claim that physical realities are illusion? What is the purpose of ultimate reality experiencing an illusion? Best wishes.

@ROSSIKE,

Are you the same guy that posts regularly on cybereagles.com forum?

ROSSIKE:

You need to read the thread a bit more closely than you seem to have done. You're basically requesting that I start afresh with my postulation, something I'm not at all inclined to do.

I think m_nwankwo has the idea of my concerns and has asked just about the same questions I had earlier.

m nwankwo said:

Thanks Rossike for your postulations. What is this central computer and who made the computer and the software program?

Ultimately there is a Source of all consciousness. Some know it as ''God''. But God only ''creates'' through Thought. We are the imagination of God playing itself out I believe.

I also believe that all souls (or artificially individualized units of consciousness) have the power to create and influence creation via Thought. Thought comprises the building blocks of the universe, not ''matter''.

Matter is only Thought viewed in density and form.

When seers or prophets experience dimensions or realities beyound the physical senses, is it that they have deleted or temporarily deleted physical faculties of perception as you seem to suggest or that they are using non-physical faculties of perception which have always been there but was not in use?

I believe they temporarily DISABLE the limited program, and then INSTALL a more powerful upgrade, in order to access better, wider reality. The installation can happen in various ways, viz:

Incantations

Rituals

Prayer

Meditation/trance

Blood Sacrifice

Hallucinogenics/Herbalism


These activities are known to open up communication portals between the 5 sense universe we 'inhabit', and the interdimensional universe.

To describe physical realities as illusion when viewed with non physical senses is contradictory. You can only access the tangibility of physical things using physical organs of perception or instruments meant to improve on them.

The physical realities are an illusion viewed with or without non-physical senses.

The physical organs of perception, as well as instruments meant to improve on them, are  illusions.

It all starts with understanding that atoms, the building blocks of our 'physical' universe, are empty space, and therefore, all appearances of solidity and ''physicality'' are based on Thought, which ''creates'' what we call ''physical reality''.

If you want to see an apple, then you use your eyes and if you want to see bacteria in the apple, then use your microscope. At the magnification at which you will see a bacteria, you will not be able to see an apple as apple at that maginification. Is it correct to say that an apple is an illusion just because you cannot see it as one with a microscope.

No. In order to know what the apple is made of, what its constituents or 'building blocks' are, we use a microscope. When you do this, you find the apple, like every other physical object, is composed of atoms. Each atom is mere empty space with an electron spinning round its nucleus. The electrons themselves are empty space, as is the nucleus. Basically when you magnify it to the highest, you see an apple is made of nothing. It is an optical illusion. There's no 'apple'. Same as our human bodies, our cars, and our shoes.

It is the instrument or faculty of perception that determines what is seen and not the object that is viewed.

I absolutely agree with this. Our eyes only transform light into electric signals, which are delivered to the brain. This 'visible light' is confined to a tiny fraction of the electro-magnetic spectrum, which is, itself, only  0.005% of the matter/energy in the known universe. It is within this miniscule frequency range that we decode 'light' into 'physical reality'.

So we are for all intents and purposes, BLIND as humans. Right now in your living room could be sitting several of your 'dead' relatives, even as you sit around thinking you're the only one in there. There is no doubt at all that we've ALL received numerous visitations from our 'departed' loved ones even though we're blind to them.

If in your view there is no past and future, then why should there be NOW for even NOW is a concept of "time"?

Now is Now. Past and future refer to linear time.

Again, what is eternal NOW? "Time" requires a reference. What is your reference, physical, non-physical etc?

In our 'physical world', linear time exists as part of the program. Outside the program everything is happening at the same time.

I know it's hard to perceive of this from our linear dimension, but those are the reports we've received from thousands of psychics, near-death experiencers, seers, shamans, and religious sources from across the globe.

We also know that we are in a 3d dimensional VR world, but 4 and 5 dimensional worlds peopled by billions of intelligent souls also exist. It is likely we will transit to those environments when we leave this world.

Read www.near-death.com to learn about the accounts of near-death experiencers.

What is consciousness and what is infinite consciousness?

They are the same thing. Like a droplet is to a river.

Why does infinite consciousness need an experience of illusion as you claim that physical realities are illusion? What is the purpose of ultimate reality experiencing an illusion?

Great question.

Infinite consciousness does not NEED to experience a physical world. But it's just an offer on the table for any soul to take for the experience, or even for entertainment.


It is said that no soul is forced to incarnate as a human. It is entirely a decision of the soul to partake of the game. Many souls reside in Interdimensional bliss for infinity, with no intent of experiencing life as a human, while other souls incarnate and re-incarnate several times as they wish.

It is said that in the so-called 'spirit world' (our true home), souls who decide to play the game 'Human RealityXJ5', are regarded with something akin to awe. Earth life is seen as particularly brutal by spirits, a sort of Boot Camp for souls, for which only the bravest of them dare to experience.

But when souls return from an earth life, they do not have a feeling of having spent say ''70 years'', as humans.

The human experience appears to them to have taken place in no time at all, similar to a couple of minutes in our 'time'.


I recommend you read Journey of Souls by Michael Newton, a hypnotic regressionist who has had his clients relate their pre-birth lives as souls under deep hypnosis.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855

a daniel has come to nl

Hi Rossike. Thanks for your reply. I make some brief comment on your reply.

Ultimately there is a Source of all consciousness. Some know it as ''God''. But God only ''creates'' through Thought. We are the imagination of God playing itself out I believe.

I also believe that all souls (or artificially individualized units of consciousness) have the power to create and influence creation via Thought. Thought comprises the building blocks of the universe, not ''matter''.

Matter is only Thought viewed in density and form.

You earlier described humans as infinite consciousness and now you say that the source of all counsciousnes is "God". Thus you seem to be suggesting that counsciousness is "God". If in your postulation, humans and indeed all things are in reality consciouness, then you are simply saying that all things in reality is "God". If humans are God, how then are humans (which you seem to suggest is God) become the imagination of God. How can infinite consciousness become the imagination of infinite consciousness? What is imagination and what is thought? Are you suggesting that thought has no form if viewed outside the five physical senses?

I believe they temporarily DISABLE the limited program, and then INSTALL a more powerful upgrade, in order to access better, wider reality. The installation can happen in various ways, viz:

Incantations

Rituals

Prayer

Meditation/trance

Blood Sacrifice

Hallucinogenics/Herbalism


These activities are known to open up communication portals between the 5 sense universe we 'inhabit', and the interdimensional universe.

What program has an individual using hallucinogenic drug installed? Are you suggesting that even anasthetics used during surgery is an installation of a program to access better reality since patients experience dreams and trance. You say that physical things are illusions and yet you suggest that the same physical things such as blood sacrifice, herbs, drugs, rituals etc can open the door to experience reality. How can illusions now open the door to experience reality?

The physical realities are an illusion viewed with or without non-physical senses.

The physical organs of perception, as well as instruments meant to improve on them, are  illusions.

It all starts with understanding that atoms are empty space, and therefore, all appearances of solidity and ''physicality'' are based on Thought, which ''creates'' what we call ''physical reality''.

What is the evidence that physical realities are illusions. Even with your example of an atom, you stated that it has a nucleus and yet you go on and keeping saying that an atom is empty. Why do you ignore the nucleus?

No. In order to know what the apple is made of, what its constituents or 'building blocks' are, we use a microscope. When you do this, you find the apple, like every other physical object, is composed of atoms. Each atom is mere empty space with an electron spinning round its nucleus. The electrons themselves are empty space, as is the nucleus. Basically when you magnify it to the highest, you see an apple is made of nothing. It is an optical illusion. Same as our human bodies, our cars, and our shoes.

The example I used with an apple is to show that it is meaniless to compare the tangibility of things using different instruments. If I give a lens grounded for a shortsighted person to one that is long sited and the later does not see anything with the lens, is it correct for the long sighted person to declare that because he sees or recognises nothing with the wrong lens, then,  whatever is out there is an optical illusion?

Now is Now. Past and future refer to linear time

What does NOW refer to or do you deny that NOW is within the concept of "time".

In our 'physical world', linear time exists as part of the program. Outside the program everything is happening at the same time.

I know it's hard to perceive of this from our linear dimension, but those are the reports we've received from thousands of psychics, near-death experiencers, seers, shamans, and religious sources from across the globe.

We also know that we are in a 3d dimensional VR world, but 4 and 5 dimensional worlds peopled by billions of intelligent souls also exist. It is likely we will transit to those environments when we leave this world.

Read www.near-death.com to learn about the accounts of near-death experiencers.

Does it not occur to you that those who experienced these things you are describing are operating under a different concept of time and space compared to what the five senses are used to. In a dream you can see your childhood, adulthood and old age in time equivalent to few earthly seconds and yet the same event will take 80 to 100 years. Viewed with the five senses, it takes 80 plus years but viewed in a dream state it takes few seconds. This is an indication of relativity of time and space rather than no time.

Great question.

Infinite consciousness does not NEED to experience a physical world. But it's just an offer on the table for any soul to take for the experience, or even for entertainment.


It is said that no soul is forced to incarnate as a human. It is entirely a decision of the soul to partake of the game. Many souls reside in Interdimensional bliss for infinity, with no intent of experiencing life as a human.

It is said that in the so-called 'spirit world' (our true home), souls who decide to play the game Human RealityXJ5, are regarded with something akin to awe. Earth life is seen as particularly brutal by spirits, a sort of Boot Camp for souls, for which only the bravest of souls dare to experience.

But when souls return from an earth life, they do not have a feeling of having spent say ''70 years'', as humans.

The human experience appears to them to have taken place in no time at all, perhaps a couple of minutes in our 'time'.


I recommend you read Journey of Souls by Michael Newton, a hypnotic regressionist who has had his clients relate their pre-birth lives as souls under deep hypnosis.

Ok. It is not a need but an offer on the table. Why the offer in the first place? If it is for experience, why does infinite consciouness want to experience? If it is for entertainment, then this infinite consiouness is so bored in its eternity and infinity. But more seriously, what is this infinite consciouness gaining from experiencing as a murderer, peadophile and similar things? Does it not appear absurd that infinite counsciouness decide to experience as a murderer and then murders other humans who according to you are also infinite counsciouness in reality. I am aware of hypnotic age regression and going into it will derail the thread. So I will leave it for now. Best wishes.

You earlier described humans as infinite consciousness and now you say that the source of all counsciousnes is "God". Thus you seem to be suggesting that consciousness is "God". If in your postulation, humans and indeed all things are in reality consciouness, then you are simply saying that all things in reality is "God".

Absolutely. WE are God. Just as a drop of water is one with the sea. A drop of Consciousness is God. God would represent the Source Consciousness, which has deliberately created individualized units of consciousness for each to experience, some under an illusion of separateness.

In reality, all are ONE. Humans, animals, trees, insects, demons, angels, 'gods', deities etc. It couldn't be any other way. This also means that for each one of us, there is absolutely NOTHING in this world or the next, that we should be fearful of. How can God be afraid of His own Self?

If you understand that everything 'seen' and 'unseen' is of God, then you know you are God, and therefore, cannot ''die'', and thus, nothing should ever scare you.

If humans are God, how then are humans (which you seem to suggest is God) become the imagination of God.

Humans are souls temporarily occupying a dense physical coat which helps them experience reality in this dimension or vibrational state.

God basically created from His Consciousness, individualized, autonomous units of consciousness which we refer to as souls.

The idea that we are inherently ''separate'' from God or from each other is what leads to evil.

Evil, fear and hatred are a playing out of the notion that we are separate.

Good deeds and Love are a playing out of the fact that we are One.

What is imagination and what is thought?

One is to imagine. The other is to think.

Are you suggesting that thought has no form if viewed outside the five physical senses?

Absolutely not. If you read my first post I stated that our reading of what is ''out there'' is only one of possibly billions of possible readings. It all depends on the ''software''.

I liken it to a projector. The ''movie director'' can beam anything he likes on to a wall. The key is for the souls who take up parts in the movie to realise it's just a movie. To radically change the movie and their role in it, they need to adjust or replace the input to the projector, rather than trying to manouvre and fight WITHIN the game as beamed on to the wall.

There's much success in the former. Little or none in the latter!

You say that physical things are illusions and yet you suggest that the same physical things such as blood sacrifice, herbs, drugs, rituals etc can open the door to experience reality. How can illusions now open the door to experience reality?

Certain activities in the physical world are known to have a vibrational resonance with multi-dimensional reality. Numbers, certain signs and symbols, ley lines, etc, are known to create portals of communication with the REAL world ''out there'', as well as intelligences which reside therein, both ''good'' and ''bad''.

You'll have to ask God Himself why He allowed for this ''quirk''. My feeling is He could not have us totally cut off from Himself, being aspects of Him.

Another way to see it is that since Thought, or Belief creates ''reality'', the practitioners of these arts actualise their efforts by their deep belief in its efficacy.

What is the evidence that physical realities are illusions. Even with your example of an atom, you stated that it has a nucleus and yet you go on and keeping saying that an atom is empty. Why do you ignore the nucleus?

I stated above that the nucleus was a ''mini atom''. meaning it comprised empty space. This is all scientifically verifiable.

Now is Now. Past and future refer to linear time
What does NOW refer to

It refers to NOW.

or do you deny that NOW is within the concept of "time".

On the contrary, ''time'' is within the concept of NOW.

Does it not occur to you that those who experienced these things you are describing are operating under a different concept of time and space compared to what the five senses are used to. In a dream you can see your childhood, adulthood and old age in time equivalent to few earthly seconds and yet the same event will take 80 to 100 years. Viewed with the five senses, it takes 80 plus years but viewed in a dream state it takes few seconds. This is an indication of relativity of time and space rather than no time.

But the mere fact of the relativity of time means there is NO time!!! It is all relative to the observer's perspective, be it in a dream, or in what we consider ''real life''. (By the way, it is reported that when we transit, this experience feels exactly like a dream).

As Einstein noted, when you are doing something you like, 'time flies', and when you're in a dentist's chair, it seems to 'pass' very slowly. When you panic, time seems to pass very quickly, but not when you stay calm. The very fact that time is relative to the observer means there is no time. It is simply a perception and not 'real'.

Our manufactured official 'time' is linked to the earth's rotation, and when THAT changes, so does our 'time'. In the USA, you can drive across a state border and be in a different hour, and when you fly across the International Date Line, you are instantly in a different DAY.

Why? Because time is an illuuuuuuuuuusion.

There is no such thing as ''time''.

We note the passage of ''time'' because we are in a dense, and extremely unhappy state of existence in comparison to the bliss of Ultimate reality, from whence we came.

In states of Ultimate bliss, there is no awareness of ''time''.

And where there is no awareness of time, there is NO time.

Ok. It is not a need but an offer on the table. Why the offer in the first place? If it is for experience, why does infinite consciouness want to experience? If it is for entertainment, then this infinite consiouness is so bored in its eternity and infinity. But more seriously, what is this infinite consciouness gaining from experiencing as a murderer, peadophile and similar things? Does it not appear absurd that infinite consciouness decide to experience as a murderer and then murders other humans who according to you are also infinite counsciouness in reality.

From our human perspective, there often seems to be no sense to any of this. But I think the  job of Consciousness is to Create. Consciousness is nothing if it does not Create.

You are nothing if you wake up everyday and stare out your bedroom window.

You people are crazy.

Edit

Science without conscience is a soul Ruinner

Ibrahim said:

Quote
It all starts with understanding that atoms, the building blocks of our 'physical' universe, are empty space, and therefore, all appearances of solidity and ''physicality'' are based on Thought, which ''creates'' what we call ''physical reality''.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism. Try and give credit to others and don't make it look like its your idea.

I've not even bothered to read your link, nor do I care what it contains. You've no idea where I got my ''idea''. This is not a ''point-scoring'' discussion, and your tone is most ungracious, for reasons best known to you.

My dear, an atom is TOO small to be seen by a microscope. You obviously will see only empty space because you haven't hit it yet!
And who will be crazy enough to think he can see an atom using a microscope anyway? You can use a microscope for looking at microbes, to see an atom, please get another instrument.

Interesting point, but quite irrelevant to the discussion. With the emergence of quantum physics, and with it, the various means of examining an atom to determine its constituents, such as atomic force microscopy (AFM) and
scanning tunneling microscopy (STM), among other methods, science has had to concede that atoms, the building blocks of the physical universe, comprise empty space. If you disagree with THAT widely upheld scientific conclusion, do let us know, ''my dear''.

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The world we see is only in existence at the back of our brain, where the electromagnetic signals picked up by our eyes, are converted into a dense 3D ''physical'' format, complete with colour and surround sound.

This is exactly the same way a TV decodes electromagnetic signals into a colourful, raucous football match, or blood-curdling gangster film.


It would have been more accurate if you compared the way we see to a camera rather than to a television set. How do you think a Television Set works? If an atom were non-existent, the whole idea of a Television will be impossible.


If you're in the physical sciences, I would say I'm really disappointed.

You do not know enough about what I'm postulating to suggest a more ''accurate'' analogy. I would suggest you approach the discussion in a far less abrasive, impertinent manner.

Sorry, if I came off abrasive. But I thought the whole argument was wrong - not that it justified the way I replied. I retract my previous statements

The link I provided describes the philosopy of Solipsism which is the 'proper' name for the view that nothing exists. The philosophy has been around for a while.

Interesting point but utterly irrelevant to the discussion. With the emergence of quantum physics, science has had to concede that atoms, the building blocks of the physical universe, contain nothing but empty space. If you disagree with THAT widely upheld scientific conclusion, do let us know, ''my dear''.

1. Quantum Physics does not say that the atom is empty space. Rather what it said is that energy at the atomic level is quantised (i.e. exists in discrete levels) rather than being continuous.

2. Scientists have since estimated physical properties of the atom. The electron mass and charge are known and measured and have been the basis of many electronics device of which the Television falls among. If you're aware of the Electron Gun (Cathode Ray Tube) you'll understand what I'm talking about.

3. From the duality principle (a concept in quantum physics), energy exhibits both a wave and a particle nature. Light is now known to consist of photons which have a particle nature (i.e. solid). Without this, photoelectric effect, for which Einstein received the nobel prize, will be impossible.


The atom does exist. Because it is imperceptible to our five senses, even when aided by the microscope, doesn't mean it doesn't.  Properties of the atom have been known and measured. How is the nuclear bomb possible if the atom does not exist?

What will Nuclear Fusion and Fission mean?

What will the chemical properties of substances mean?

The human perception captures o n l y a fraction of what exists.

ROSSIKE:

Deep Sight said:

The pyramids under another software program could appear to the receivers, not as ''pyramids'', but as a retinue of colors, each symbolizing a thought wave.

Or a mesh of lines similar to the readings on an electrocardiogram.

The Sun could be received as little more than a pesky lightbulb, or not at all.

There is no doubt that the faculties of the perceiver would influence the manner or mode of perception: or what is perceived. Indeed as the saying goes perception is cognitive reality.

Just as surely as some creatures are colour blind, and accordingly will perceive objects differently from other creatures.

So you have missed the question.

The question is whether the thing perceived is actually there or is an illusion.

Since you concede that – “The pyramids under another software program could appear to the receivers, not as ''pyramids'', but as a retinue of colors, each symbolizing a thought wave.” – then you have conceded that the Pyramids EXIST, but will be perceived differently by different observers.

That in itself is a moot point well understood by all.

ROSSIKE:

Absolutely. WE are God.

This is a very misleading statement.

From a broad and generalistic point of view the statement may be allowed to pass, in that God is everything, being the source and creator of all existence: or rather, being the very fibre of existence itself.

I had pointed towards this in another thread some days ago –

Deep Sight:

In my view, creation is nothing but the intrinsic self-expression of the mind of the creator. I believe that the natural outward radiation of the substance of divinity is what emerges as creation.

God being a compound element, comprises an infinite mind that contains infinite permutations of existence.

This infinite mind being self-existent continuously pulsates in the reality of its live nature and that emitts steady streams of creation which is nothing but the replica of the infinite permutations of existence contained in the universal mind.

Accordingly i do not subscribe to the belief that man was created for the purpose of worshipping God per se.

I think that man is a natural manifestation of the mind of God, and in living (and living fully), God's thoughts reach expression and reality through man (and through everything else in existence).

It is therefore fair to state that we are projections of the universal mind in an abstract sense.

However this is not to be confused with the specific nature of the human experience as being distinct from God.

It is apparent even from contradictions in your surmise that you apprehend this as well.

For you stated –

ROSSIKE:

Absolutely. WE are God.

And then contradicted that statement many other statements, a few of which are - 

ROSSIKE:

YOU are a pre-existing soul who decided to play the game as a participant in this VR program for reasons of soul development through experience.

Hereby conceding that individual souls are units that need to develop. . . Ultimate Consciousness, by its very definition cannot be said to need to develop! Thus you concede that we cannot be said to be God.

ROSSIKE:

The idea that we are inherently ''separate'' from God or from each other is what leads to evil.

Evil, fear and hatred are a playing out of the notion that we are separate.

Really? If as you postulate, we are all parts of God, this would not be the case. Ultimate Consciousness would not write a script for itself to experience, which includes separating itself from itself and thereby creating evil, no?

Such a suggestion, you must agree, will be absurd.

And philosophically, it must collapse; for its suggestion, I hope you realize, is that the only purpose of creation was the formation of evil.

This is the direct implication of your surmise: because creation involved bringing into existence “individualized” parts of consciousness – thus “separating” infinite consciousness into parts. You yourself stated that “separation” is the basis of evil, whereas “oneness” is the basis of good.

Thus, if God wanted all things to be good, then he would never have created any “individuals.” All would have remained one, indivisible grreat oneness.

I hope you can see that your surmise leads irrevocably to the conclusion that creation was only done for the purpose of introducing “divisions” and thereby evil.

On this ground, your summation must fail in its entirety.

ROSSIKE:
You'll have to ask God Himself why He allowed for this ''quirk''

Here again you accept that “God himself” is entirely and altogether different from we as individual beings, and also that he/she/it posesses exclusive discretion on certain things, to which we will never be privy.

Thus your assertion that we are God (attractive as it is to my mind) is riddled with problems arising from your very own words.

Importantly, i must also add that if indeed we are all little parts of God, then the direct implication is that every single thing is a direct deed of God, and thus ALL things are predestined.

If this is the case then -

   1. Your talk about souls coming to the "world" to develop, becomes entirely meaningless

   2. Every terrible event in history, including the holocaust, mass amputation in Liberia, genocide in Rwanda, the slave trade, would all be direct deeds of God (since we are God) carried out possibly for his entertainment.

Rossike? ? ? ? ?

Ibrahim B said:

1. Quantum Physics does not say that the atom is empty space. Rather what it said is that energy at the atomic level is quantised (i.e. exists in discrete levels) rather than being continuous.

Can you tell us the constituents of an atom and the amount of space they occupy (by percentage) in relation to the atom?

Don't bother. I'll tell you. Strictly speaking an atom is 99.999% EMPTY SPACE if by empty space we mean that nothing is discernible in it within our range of perception. (How then can empty space form a ''solid'' object?)

Anything else you write here, is misleading, so stop trying.

2. Scientists have since estimated physical properties of the atom. The electron mass and charge are known and measured and have been the basis of many electronics device of which the Television falls among. If you're aware of the Electron Gun (Cathode Ray Tube) you'll understand what I'm talking about.

You seem more interested in impressing us with your scientific knowledge than with discussing the issue at hand. You say ''the electron mass and charge are known and measured'', but this is beside the point if you're not giving us the figures. Is this because electron mass in relation to the atom is so negligible as to be embarassing to your argument?

3. From the duality principle (a concept in quantum physics), energy exhibits both a wave and a particle nature. Light is now known to consist of photons which have a particle nature (i.e. solid). Without this, photoelectric effect, for which Einstein received the nobel prize, will be impossible.

Once again, interesting but irrelevant to the discussion. The reason we say atoms are empty is not because there is ''nothing in them''. It is because what is in them, ie the energy they contain, is imperceptible to our five sense reality, consisting as it does, of energy vibrating on wavelengths higher than the 'physical', and even the particles you mention are found to be empty as you go deeper into the subatomic realm.

The atom does exist. Because it is imperceptible to our five senses, even when aided by the microscope, doesn't mean it doesn't.

I never said the atom doesn't exist. However, everything that can be ''seen'' is illusion, in that it is the observer's ''faculties'' which determine the form characteristics of what is ''seen''. What is seen has no ''default'' shape, size, or density independent of its observance. Meaning nothing exists in form except when it is ''observed'', and the form and shape it takes depends entirely on the observer's ''faculties''.

Whatever we ''see'' is merely a decoding of frequencies. The work of Frenchman Jean Fourier in the 18th century led to televisions and the discovery of holograms. He developed a pattern of converting patterns into simple wave forms and back again, providing the potential for a tv camera to convert pictures into electromagnetic frequencies, and the television to convert them back again to pictures.


Scientists have discovered that the human brain operates on the principles of Fourier transform, meaning it is a frequency decoder.

In the late 70s, research by Russel and Karen DaValois, two neurophysicists at Berkely University (US), revealed compelling evidence, since supported by countless scientists across the world, that the brain is decoding frequency patterns and converting them into holographic images that we 'see' (or think we do). In fact, even the human ear is a frequency decoder, as is our tongue, and 'sense of taste'.

ROSSIKE:


However, everything that can be ''seen'' is illusion, in that it is the observer's ''faculties'' which determine the form characteristics of what is ''seen''. What is seen has no ''default'' shape, size, or density independent of its observance. Meaning nothing exists in form except when it is ''observed'', and the form and shape it takes depends entirely on the observer's ''faculties''.

Accordingly the sun, and the earth were not round in shape before humans arrived to “observe” them.? ? ? ? ? ? ?

Please give me a break.

That is patently FALSE.