Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 7:56pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
@Doyenn & Muhsin Salam brothers. May Allah be pleased with you. Please leave them alone, they are not ready to wise up and they should thank their star that Babs has been very busy. A dog that wants to get lost will not listen to its Master's whistle. @Pilgrims, Davidylan, nossycheeks and other christian apologists Like I said earlier, I dont want to be giving you biblical verses again but learnt that you are not ready to accept explanation and as a result of that I came with some verses in which you must explain them to me from the bible. Muslims here have explained 19 v 71 but you are not satisfied and as a result of that, I came up with just two verses out of very many from your bible. Like I do say, he who live in glass house must not throw stone Still on Quran 19 v 71. Please I want you to explain these verses to me 1. What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13) According to King James Version, it was an angel According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird). Please provide explanation. 2. What was the age of Saul when he began to reign? In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years. New International Version (NIV) says he was 30. Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible. Please provide explanation to the above. Still on 19 v 71, when you provide explanation to the above, I will provide you verses from different versions that go against each other. Take care. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 8:30pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: People get busy, so don't hide behind that excuse. If the 'whistle' was meant to be pejorative about others, then perhaps you need to take your own advice and not get lost on issues you have been dribble about. babs787: There are answers to the questions you're asking; but you don't have to demand them on a "MUST". Nobody set you on this Forum to boss others; and I've stated that as soon as you respect others and answer questions offered you, then we may oblige you. Trying to dribble awy from the Sura 19:71 and making excuses with translations on Rev. 8:13 and others are not going to help your distractions. Muslims always do that - and you can't play games anymore with such distractions. babs787: Muslims did not "explain" Sura 19:71 - nor did they answer the questions offered as to where they find the Bridge over Hell in the Qur'an. I offered that same question to YOU, which you've cleverly ducked and now making excuses with 'I came up with just two verses'. Ah, me sef, I came have just two verses from your own Qur'an that show how Muslim translators have mistranslated the Qur'an. Ask and I'll gladly serve them. Your attempt to distract and hide away from Sura 19:71 is not working here at all. babs787: I saw you've been throwing stones all along before I joined the Forum. babs787: Babs787, why the pretences? I've already answered in the previous page and left you links there to go read my answers to your questions. Have you done so? Why are you repeating yourself and pretending you didn't see my answers in the previous page? Why are you deliberately evading the question I asked? Here again is what I left you earlier: pilgrim.1: So there. Enjoy. babs787: It is not my headache that the different versions of the Qur'an go against each other. Afterall, you've once referred to Muslim translators as "deluded liars that lied in order to deceive". Where you get your own translation that go against other Muslim translations that do not mention any BRIDGE over Hell in the Qur'an is still begging for answers. The distractions are not working, babs787. You've enjoyed doing this in the past; but it has grown out of use. Do you mind answering my questions and leave your attempted distractions and games for other times? Thank you. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:47pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
Still on Quran 19 v 71 @pilgrims, David, Vicjustice, babyosis, nossycheeks and other christian apologists I have provided explanation to the Surah and you said that you would provide the contradictions, please do. With regards to the above,, I supplied you verses from your bible where versions are saying different things, common, dont act like a coward do justice to my questions. When you are still providing explanations to my questions, do justice to the below veses from different versions too. We will see who will get tired at the end. Please when you are through with 19 v 71, provide explanation to these too. Where was the denial made? IN THE BOOK OF MATHEW King James Version Mathew 26v71: …and he was gone into the Porch Revised Standard Version Mathew 26v71:and when he went out to the Porch Good News Bible Mathew 26v71: went out to the entrance of the Courtyard New Living Translation Mathew 26v71: , out by the GATE The Gideon Bible Mathew 26v71: …gone out to the GATEWAY IN THE BOOK OF MARK King James Version Mark 14v68-69: and he went out into the Porch Revised Standard Version Mark 14v68: …and he went out into the Gateway Good News Bible Mark 14v68: went out into the Passage New Living Translation Mark 14v68: …went out into the ENTRY WAY The Gideon Bible Mark 14v68: ….he went out on the PORCH IN THE BOOK LUKE King James Version Luke 22v55-58: …in the midst of the hall. Revised Standard Version Luke 22v55: …in the middle of the Courtyard Good News Bible Luke 22v55: …center of the Courtyard New Living Translation Luke 22v55: the guards lit a fire in the COURTYARD…Peter joined them. The Gideon Bible Luke 22v55: Peter sat among them in the COURTYARD Please provide explanation to the above. NB: we are still on 19 v 71 Take care. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:52pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
@pilgrims You know that muslims have provided enough answers but you and your cohorts are not satisfied as a result of your mischief. So please dont act like a coward, provide me explanations to the verses from different versions of the bible. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:58pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
@pilgrim Babs787, why the pretences? I've already answered in the previous page and left you links there to go read my answers to your questions. Have you done so? Why are you repeating yourself and pretending you didn't see my answers in the previous page? Why are you deliberately evading the question I asked? You know that muslims gave explanations but you are not satisfied, so please provide explanation to the below questions again from different versions of the bible 1. What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13) According to King James Version, it was an angel According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird). Please provide explanation. KJV said it was an angel while others said it was an eagle or a bird, please explain. Is there any relationship between an angel and eagle/bird? 2. What was the age of Saul when he began to reign? In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years. New International Version (NIV) says he was 30. Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible. I need explanation on the above too since the versions are not saying same thing. Which is the truth. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 9:05pm On Jul 30, 2007 |
babs787: I'm still asking that you give me the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned the "bridge" over Hell fire - has ANY Muslim done so? Where is the verse, babs787? And why are you pretending that I have not answered your questions on Sura 19:71? Have you checked out the weblinks I left you? Please go there and see for yourself the usual dribbling that Muslims make when they are faced with their own denials - which again is the same attempt you're trying to make here. Babs787, don't play games by trying to distract this issue. The case is clear; your answers are flawed; and you have not answered the question I left you. Playing games. . . tsk, tsk. . . e no go work with me sam-sam. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:03pm On Jul 31, 2007 |
@pilgrim I'm still asking that you give me the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned the "bridge" over Hell fire - has ANY Muslim done so? Where is the verse, babs787? Calm down, as we proceed, I will be bringing out some verses from different versions of your bible. So you cant use your initiative because Allah didnt mention the word 'BRIDGE'. If He didnt mention it, please what are people 'passing over' And why are you pretending that I have not answered your questions on Sura 19:71? Have you checked out the weblinks I left you? Please go there and see for yourself the usual dribbling that Muslims make when they are faced with their own denials - which again is the same attempt you're trying to make here. In all honesty, I have not checked and didnt bother to check because I for one provided explanation and even referred you and David to the explanation on same. It will even do you good if you can lay your hands on Ibn Kathir translation of the Holy Quran rather than making mockery of yourself. Nobody is denying anything and will never do but you are the mischievous one that is not ready to accept explanation. Like I said, you and David have been posing same for some days and all efforts trying to checkmate you proved abortive even after having given you explanations. You know babs, by the time I start with you giving you verses from your bible, you and David will regret ever starting the debate. I have not even done that when you said that I was deriding Jesus and your faith. You will start a thread and when muslims start giving you verses from your bible, you will start saying all sort of things. I decided to soft-pedalled because of some christians here Quran 5 v 82: verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers the Jews and those who are Al mushrikins and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say[b] 'we are christians'[/b]. This is because amongst them are priests and monks and they are not proud. Babs787, don't play games by trying to distract this issue. The case is clear; your answers are flawed; and you have not answered the question I left you. Playing games. . . tsk, tsk. . . e no go work with me sam-sam. I am not playing games and will never do that, since muslims have explained and you are not ready to accept the explanation. I posed those verses to you to help me out by explaining to me like muslims have done to verse 19 v 71. You yourself know very well that I answered you, provided you with explanation too but your denial will not work and your pranks reminds me of nossycheeks and Telly B. Nossycheek posted some Quran verses claiming they are contradictions but muslims explained the verses to her without even diverting the topic but funny enough, when I opened similar thread with the title 'NOT REALLY CONTRADICTIONS; Telly B diverted when he couldnt provide explanations to the verses from the bible and gave me some alleged quranic contradictions and claimed that I must answer him before he would answer my questions. Same goes when I posed some questions on the deity of Jesus and all he could do again was diverted the topic and asked me questions. So yours is not coming as a surprise, muslims have provided explanation to you though you are not satisfied but please try to explain the verses from different versions of your bible. Since you are running from my questions, I will limit them to just two which you must provide explanation as muslims have done. 1. What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13) According to King James Version, it was an angel According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird). Please provide explanation. KJV said it was an angel while others said it was an eagle or a bird, please explain. Is there any relationship between an angel and eagle/bird? Try to provide explanation as muslims have done. 2. What was the age of Saul when he began to reign? In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years. New International Version (NIV) says he was 30. Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible. I need explanation on the above too since the versions are not saying same thing. Which is the truth. Provide expalanation as muslims have done. Thanks |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by Horus(m): 8:32pm On Jul 31, 2007 |
Ramadan breath is a very foul odor. You Muhammadans with your hadith have the nerve to say that Allah will pardon one’s Ramadan breath, and that it likened to the scent of paradise, what nonsense. You mean to tell me paradise smells like a sewer system that can be found right here on earth. Scientifically speaking, the digestive system is not voluntary controlled. The digestive system is an involuntary system; so whether you eat or don’t eat, it is still going to secrete gastric juices, pepsin and hydrochloric acids, which digest the remains on the lining of the stomach. Meaning, the feces that is left on the lining of the stomach is being re-digested over and over again, which is why you have foul-smelling breath during Ramadan, that you seem to take so much pride in having. I also would like to know where does it state, in the Koran, “you will be hated,” if you use toothpaste? With that stench in your mouth, during the fasting in Ramadan, you, Muhammadans should be running to the stores, grabbing all of the toothpaste off the shelves. Because the miswaks (little bark from trees that take like licorice) are not working. By the way, miswaks are very bad for your teeth, although you say Muhammad used it. Dentists today have proven that it only pushes your teeth back, making them loose and yellow. And, it does not contain any fluoride; therefore, it is not beneficial to your teeth, unless you want no teeth by the time you reach middle age. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 9:48pm On Jul 31, 2007 |
@babs787, Repeating the same thing over and again is not new - Muslims often do this when they can't face up to their own denials. It's the trademark, and I wasn't expecting anything better than that from you. Making excuses about Telly B's questions that you couldn't answer is not the befitting thing for a man your age to post in a public Forum - it makes you sound like a helpless child seeking sympathy for lost toys. However, as many times as you want to play this game, the same answers that I've already offered to Sura 19:71 will be presented: pilgrim.1: So there. Pretend all you want as if you suddenly can no longer read. If you care, please go to those links and be the man you've been crying 'salam brothers' every time you want cheap applause from your brethren. NONE of them has yet been able to oblige an answer to the single question of the verse in the Qur'an for the BRIDGE over Hell. Embarrassing, is it? Not my worry - the Qur'an claims to be a "fully detailed" book with nothing left out of it. Where in the Qur'an is the bridge over Hell that has been left out of it? You sabi play games, abi? You never start as yet. Enjoy. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:24pm On Aug 01, 2007 |
@Horus
Whats that supposed to mean dude?  I also would like to know where does it state, in the Koran, “you will be hated,” if you use toothpaste? With that stench in your mouth, during the fasting in Ramadan, you, Muhammadans should be running to the stores, grabbing all of the toothpaste off the shelves. Because the miswaks (little bark from trees that take like licorice) are not working. By the way, miswaks are very bad for your teeth, although you say Muhammad used it. Dentists today have proven that it only pushes your teeth back, making them loose and yellow. And, it does not contain any fluoride; therefore, it is not beneficial to your teeth, unless you want no teeth by the time you reach middle age. Thanks for the advice once again caring brother.  @pilgrim @babs787, Really? I am not surprised at your post. It has been your trade mark and I told you in my last post that by the time am through with you, you will regret coming on board. I am not making an excuse, If you are not satisfied and very sure of what you are saying about Telly B, you may bring up the thread and lets view it together. However, as many times as you want to play this game, the same answers that I've already offered to Sura 19:71 will be presented: Like I said, I have not been around for sometime now but you felt that you can capitalize on my absence to be posting what you feel like. By the time I open threads specifically for you and I, you will regret coming up with threads against BABS. Quote from: pilgrim.1 on July 28, 2007, 11:28 PM I dont need to check those links because I have provided explanation but you are up to mischief. Nobody is seeing you now but you will start saying that Babs is deriding your faith when I start with you. When trouble sleep, yanga go go wake am, and when you wake am finish, you no go fit control am. And what about the Muslim translators who know that verse does not speak of "passing over" but translate it as: "except that he will go (herded) down to it" - (Dr. M.M. Ghali) "shall descend into the same [hell]" - (Sale) "There is not one of you who shall not go down to it" - (Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish) Where did Yusuf Ali, Muhsin & Khan (Hilali-Khan) and others like them get the idea of "passing over" Hell to justify their own particular slants to that verse (Sura 19:71)? There is no mention of any bridge over hell in the Qur'an; nor did the Qur'an say that Muslims are going to "pass over" Hell. It clearly states that they are going to be taken into Hell (ENTER it, go down to it, be herded down to it). Good. you know that muslims have explained but you are ready to wise up. Let me apply the same method to your bible and you must explain to me too because muslims have explained to you. Please try to explain the below translations from different versions of the bible. 1. What creature was crying in the sky? (Revelation 8 v 13) KJV said it was an angel According to King James Version, it was an angel WHILE According to the New English Bible, , Good News Bible, Revised Standard Version, Living Bibleetc it was an eagle (a bird). Please provide explanation. 2. What was the age of Saul when he began to reign? In 1 samuel 13 v 3, New English Bible says he was 50 years. New International Version (NIV) says he was[b] 30.[/b] Amplified Bible (AB) and New American Standard Bible (NASB) says he was 40 years while in King James Version, Revised Standard Version, Living Bible, Holy Bible, New Jerusalem Bible and American Translation of the Holy Bible his age is quite unknown The whole verse has been dropped out of the Good News Bible. Please explain the difference in the versions of the bible.
You are just wasting your time. I for one explained to you but you are not ready to learn and when I found out that you are not ready to learn, I gave you translation from different versions of your bible in which you should please try and explain as muslims have done to your questions. Now you may be denying the fact that muslims have explained to you but its just that you are not satisfied, so common dont act like a coward, explain those versions for me too. You sabi play games, abi? You never start as yet. I gave you a verse that says they will pass over. Please explain to me from that verse, what will they 'pass over'? You havent seen nothing yet, by the time I go digging into the bible, you will regret starting the verse.
Sure And when you are through with my questions, you will explain the other verses from the four books from different versions of your bible. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by Nobody: 8:37pm On Aug 01, 2007 |
this boy no dey tire babs, na you biko |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 9:17pm On Aug 01, 2007 |
@babs787, Quit the drama and go there to see the answers I offfered. You Muslims have been playing games forever whenever you find your denials face to face. Look at the excuses you're now covering face with: I don't need to check those links because I have provided explanation but you are up to mischief. Of course you don't need to go check those links because you know your nightmares are facing you there. It won't be my problem if you take a heart attack whenever you do. You pretend the 'salam bother' to whip up cheap applause from you and your folks for not having been able to clearly and simply provide the verse for what you make Allah say that he did not say in the Qur'an. Sorry for you. Like I said, I have not been around for sometime now but you felt that you can capitalize on my absence to be posting what you feel like. By the time I open threads specifically for you and I, you will regret coming up with threads against BABS. Don't make me laugh. If that was meant as another device to hide your weak fallacies, save it - it's not working. Where did I open threads against BABS? What do you represnt - juju that no one has heard of before? Who captalized on your absence - or you just want to to let us know that mouth is paining you to talk beyond what you see? Where did I come up with threads against BABS - do you even exist? You had the intention to make me regret - and only one thread about Muhammad's miracles made your eyes red. You still haven't recovered yet from that one - and you're snuffing smoke to make me regret! Please go to your errand boys and pick another joke: tell them that the one they gave you is not working on pilgrim.1 - they may have stronger juju for you. Now you may be denying the fact that muslims have explained to you but its just that you are not satisfied, so common don't act like a coward, explain those versions for me too. You're right - I'm not satisfied with Muslim so-called 'explanations' that have only turned out to be more deception than 'explanation'. I know - I've dealt with your betters before, and not even Tiptronic was able to sustain his so-called 'explanation'. He knew his noose was getting tighter and he eloped from the Forum. I didn't wish him to have gone so unceremoniously; but he's smart to have saved himself the bang he didn't wish for; and you're here crying 'you must answer my questions.' Babs787, just quit the pretences, Muslims play the games you've been ever playing on the Forum - and that's why you don't want to go over to the other thread for my answers as you're hiding away from your worst nightmares. When you recover just a bit, fold your agbada and go there and show the coward that you're alleging against others but can't see in you. Here again: You will find my answers already offered to your questions in the thread "Moslems Are You Ready To Commit Suicide?" Please follow these links and read them carefully: The coward that you don't want to be should not be chasing you from my answers in that thread. If you guys have any answers at all, you should not be avoiding that thread like the next biggest plague is going to break out on you. You're here crying sheep - and for all your fright, you dream to make me REGRET?!? Whoever sold you that joke should have called you to a quiet corner for advice when I debated you on Muhammade's miracles that you haven't been able to defend till date. Cheerio. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 8:08pm On Aug 03, 2007 |
@babs787, I have just brought up the other thread close by for your attention so that it is easier for you to go there and find answers to your problems with Sura 19:71. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 8:23pm On Aug 03, 2007 |
Insert Quote You know what babs can do. @pilgrims Insert Quote I was about posting when I saw your post and will answer it along with your former rejoinder. I have gone through and saw that tiptronic answered more than I ever expected.
Muslims can never play games with, you are the one confusing yourself when you having nothing to proof. Of course you don't need to go check those links because you know your nightmares are facing you there. Honestly sister, no matter how you may twist the debate, the fact remains that when we start, it is you christian that will get tired cos there is proof and evidence to knock you and your faith out. It won't be my problem if you take a heart attack whenever you do. You pretend the 'salam bother' to whip up cheap applause from you and your folks for not having been able to clearly and simply provide the verse for what you make Allah say that he did not say in the Qur'an. Sorry for you. I wonder whats your problem in greeting my brothers. Do muslims raise eyebrows when any of your folks greet or congratulate you? Hey, you know that babs doesnt give a damn, it is you that will get tired when we start, you will make me go deep into your bible and start what I have stopped.
Hey, I am beginning to diagnose your problem and when I start with you, you will regret debating with babs. I will be very grateful if a favour can be granted which is, leaving two threads for you and I. One will be for Islamic questios and the other will for questions on christianity. Let me know if you are ok with that and Seun should make it possible if you are comfortable with that . Strictly for you and I. You had the intention to make me regret - and only one thread about Muhammad's miracles made your eyes red. You still haven't recovered yet from that one - and you're snuffing smoke to make me regret! Please go to your errand boys and pick another joke: tell them that the one they gave you is not working on pilgrim.1 - they may have stronger juju for you. Nobody'e eyes red. You were just twisting and going round in circles. I didnt see you in that thread of 99 names of Allah and you didnt even go on with that 'Muhammed is not a good man'. Babs is ever ready for you anyhow you want it. By the time I am through with you, you will regret debating with babs.
I am used to your trademark and it wont work for me. Ok lets put it this way, muslims explained to you but you are not satisfied. So please try to explain my questions too if you are up to the task. Remember, I have not started with you yet, but by the time I am through with you, you will regret coming to nairaland. I only wish seun grant my request. And when we start. i mean you and I, both of must answer questions thrown at each other. Babs787, just quit the pretences, Muslims play the games you've been ever playing on the Forum - and that's why you don't want to go over to the other thread for my answers as you're hiding away from your worst nightmares. When you recover just a bit, fold your agbada and go there and show the coward that you're alleging against others but can't see in you. Here again: You are the one hallucinating. Muslim provided enough explanation but you are not satisfied as a result of your mischief. Here you are showing your weakness by not being able to answer my questions. Quote I saw it, just like the explanation I gave to you. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619 Tiptronic provided enough explanation.
May Allah be pleased with him, he provided detailed explanation
May Allah be pleased with him for providing enough explanation but only that you are not ready to learn and use what you have in your upstairs WHERE IS THE VERSE IN THE QUR'AN THAT MENTIONS THE BRIDGE OVER HELL? Once again, what are they passing over in the verse I provided for you?
I am not running and will never do that. I have provided explanation for you but you are not satisfied. I am asking you again, please what are they passing over. On the issue of Miracles, I didnt run but ignored you when I realised that you cannot debate sensibly but arguing over what you have no fact for as you have been doing in some threads. Please let me know if you are ok with the opening of two threads strictly for you and I. If you are ok, let me know so we start once and for all. You will be asking me questions in Islamic thread while I will be doing same in christianity thread. Please accept my offer. I have been begging you and still begging you to provide explanation to my questions just like muslims have done to you. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 8:46pm On Aug 03, 2007 |
Babs787, I brought the thread where you dread your nightmares close by so you can take a look and address what you call "explanation". We know the Muslim games at posting deceptions to cover their denials, and that's why I am asking that you go there and show the joker you are, instead of hiding in this thread. To assure you, there are answers to the small questions that have continually plagued you. . and as soon as you wake up from the usual Muslim dribble you've using to kill time here, you will find answers to your worries in the pretended 'questions' you've been noising endlessly here. One thing you should note is that, none of the verses from the Bible you have quoted amounts to the same thing as Allah promising to send Muslims to Hell fire as we find in the Qur'an. Too bad if you've been hoping for a bridge in the Qur'an where Allah did not remotely promise any bridge over Hell. It is not my problem that you will enter where you fear . . . it is INEVITABLE, and Allah has promised Hell fire for all Muslims! That is the one reason why you dread my answers in the other thread and have been making noise here forever. Grow up, mr babs. . . that thread is not the Hell itself. You will only find answers there that clearly enunciate your irrevocable dread by a hitman decree. So, once again, take your jokes to your errand boys and let them know that it is not working on pilgrim.1, you hear? Let them know that the only way to solve your problem is for them to show you the verse where Allah mentioned the bridge over Hell fire, so that you can be sure not to be taken into it (or, as Dr. M. M. Ghali translates it in his masterpiece, "to be herded down into Hell"  .When you land there, I wish you the very best of the hitman decree from Allah. If you're smart at all, you won't be hiding here under this noise you've been making. You would rather go to that thread and smell the flames early enough to clear your fussy thinking. Salam, babs. Whether you like it or not, Sura 19.71 is irrevocable . . and the only way you can escape that hitman decree is when you no longer carry yourself about like the Muslim who does not want to acknowledge his worst nightmare in that verse. One more thing . . . that verse happens to be one of the few that will NEVER be abrogated! So, salam again. Dress lightly, because the flames will not spare you, babs. In case you have forgotten. . . my answers are not far away> https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1300770 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464 Go there and and see the detailed deception exposed that you have pretended to overlook. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 8:53pm On Aug 03, 2007 |
Nobody'e eyes red. You were just twisting and going round in circles. I didnt see you in that thread of 99 names of Allah and you didnt even go on with that 'Muhammed is not a good man'. Do you have eyes to see at all, or the sands are also disturbing your iris? The thread was locked, and how else could you have expected me to post a reply in a locked thread? Besides, when the tread was first opened, I was one of the first to post a rejoinder to contextualize the idea of Muhammad being bad. Incase you missed it yet again, please go over and take a look> Lol @Vicjustice, https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-65190.0.html#msg1278260 Because you Muslims cannot see beyond your nose, you deliberately want to pretend that you missed that. It is quite a shame that you are pretending to be a man. No worries - I have told you before, and would yet do it again. . . go back to your errand biys and let them know that your noisy jokes are not working on pilgrim.1 . . you want to keep slipping under cover of your usual Islamic antics. Pity. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 5:37pm On Aug 04, 2007 |
pilgrim
It is you that has been playing games and i am just starting with you. More is still coming woth regards to issues in the bible. I have been there and saw detailed explanation to your problem. To assure you, there are answers to the small questions that have continually plagued you. . and as soon as you wake up from the usual Muslim dribble you've using to kill time here, you will find answers to your worries in the pretended 'questions' you've been noising endlessly here. Please provide the answers. One thing you should note is that, none of the verses from the Bible you have quoted amounts to the same thing as Allah promising to send Muslims to Hell fire as we find in the Qur'an. Too bad if you've been hoping for a bridge in the Qur'an where Allah did not remotely promise any bridge over Hell. It is not my problem that you will enter where you fear . . . it is INEVITABLE, and Allah has promised Hell fire for all Muslims! That is the one reason why you dread my answers in the other thread and have been making noise here forever. Grow up, mr babs. . . that thread is not the Hell itself. You will only find answers there that clearly enunciate your irrevocable dread by a hitman decree. Nobody is dreading your answers. Muslims provided DETAILED answers to your sleeplesness. Oh sure they will never meant same thing in as much as a verses is mentioning angel while is mentioning eagle/bird. Or situation where a verse says Peter went to the Courtyard, Gateway, Porch etc. You aint see nothing yet. So, once again, take your jokes to your errand boys and let them know that it is not working on pilgrim.1, you hear? Let them know that the only way to solve your problem is for them to show you the verse where Allah mentioned the bridge over Hell fire, so that you can be sure not to be taken into it (or, as Dr. M. M. Ghali translates it in his masterpiece, "to be herded down into Hell" Hey, is it only Ghali you are quoting? why not give me from Hilali or Dawood too. You are great player and wasting your time. You should know that when babs is ready for, he will surely make you sweat. So you cant use your initiative cos Quran didnt mention bridge and please what are the passing over? When you land there, I wish you the very best of the hitman decree from Allah. If you're smart at all, you won't be hiding here under this noise you've been making. You would rather go to that thread and smell the flames early enough to clear your fussy thinking. Okay. You tell that to 'Jesus that went to Hell in the bible' Salam, babs. Whether you like it or not, Sura 19.71 is irrevocable . . and the only way you can escape that hitman decree is when you no longer carry yourself about like the Muslim who does not want to acknowledge his worst nightmare in that verse. One more thing . . . that verse happens to be one of the few that will NEVER be abrogated! You roundabout denial is not helping matter. Muslims provided explanations but yu are not ready to think so please you provide explanation to my questions too to know that you are up to the task and not just making noise. In case you have forgotten. . . my answers are not far away> Tiptronic answered you backing it up with hadith but you were puzzled and lost along the line. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303619 I read it too. Its stil the same link. he provided the answers but you made the denials. https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1303625 Still same issue https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308457 Same issue https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308462 https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-66264.32.html#msg1308464 I went there and saw tiptronic's response to your infantile roundabout argument which you are known for. You were making denials without evidence. Too bad for you. Go there and and see the detailed deception exposed that you have pretended to overlook. Yes I did and I saw his detailed response. Besides, when the tread was first opened, I was one of the first to post a rejoinder to contextualize the idea of Muhammad being bad. Incase you missed it yet again, please go over and take a look> You didnt respond to my last post in the thread about athrocities committed by christians in spreading the message through the use of swords. Quote Okay so its your opinion but its flawed. Making noise without enough fact. This is my response which you ignored https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-65190.32.html Because you Muslims cannot see beyond your nose, you deliberately want to pretend that you missed that. You didnt make reference to the thread opened by vicjustice where I showed you how christianity was spread through the use of force and sword. It is quite a shame that you are pretending to be a man. No worries - I have told you before, and would yet do it again. . . go back to your errand biys and let them know that your noisy jokes are not working on pilgrim.1 . . you want to keep slipping under cover of your usual Islamic antics. Pity. Common enough of your denials and ignorance. please do justice to my questions on some verses from different versions. I didnt pretend and will never do. You left the thread when I posted athrocities committed by your people in spreading christianity . Respond to the thread and lets continue if you are in doubt. Also dont forget to respond to my questions asked in this thread too. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 6:16pm On Aug 04, 2007 |
@babs787, Your drama will not work, and you're only making a good laugh of yourself. Nobody is dreading your answers. Muslims provided DETAILED answers to your sleeplesness. Muslims provided detailed deception. That's what I pointed out to Tiptronic and because he knew his nosse was getting tighter around his own neck, he rather decided to opt out of the Forum. Hey, is it only Ghali you are quoting? why not give me from Hilali or Dawood too. You're such a joker - and you can add that up as another usual lie of Muslims that you're displaying here. You already know that it was NOT "only" M. M. Ghali I quoted, so why the childish denial? And come to Hilali (Hilali-Khan), I asked a pointed question as to where they got the "bridge" from that Allah never mentioned in the Qur'an - and you swerved like the typical dodger you are to play your usual games. WHERE did Hilali get the "bridge" in the Qur'an to make Allah say what is not in the Qur'an? Please give me that verse directly from the Qur'an (ANY TRANSLATION or VERSION or the Qur'an) - and I would agree with what you have severally tried to whip up here as "explanation". Where you get that deception here to be referring to Hilali is what you have to sort out. No games please, you hear? Muslims provided explanations but yu are not ready to think so please you provide explanation to my questions too to know that you are up to the task and not just making noise. I hope your heart pressure is okay? What's biting you? I'm asking two simple things - which up until now NO MUSLIM has been able to provide. Where is the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned a "bridge" over Hell fire? Secondly, what "explanation" has any Muslim offered in order to cover up their denials that Muslims will be taken to Hell fire by a hitman decree? WHICH Muslim has offered "detailed explanation" to those questions? You're here playing the usual games - but a pity it has become out of use. Try something else. Okay. You tell that to 'Jesus that went to Hell in the bible' I'm not surprised that you'd resort to such childish games - maybe that's what your errand boys recommended this time for you. They asked you to make jokes about "Jesus" and then come back in the same Muslim hypocrisy that 'Muslims love Jesus'. Good that you're displaying your Muslim hypocrisy and hope your 'salam brother' will see you for what you are. In anycase, Jesus went to 'Hades' - the place of the departed. He did not go to 'the lake of fire' where the wicked shall be cast, and which is described in the Bible as the place prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41). You didnt respond to my last post in the thread about athrocities committed by christians in spreading the message through the use of swords. It's not such a difficult thing to respond if you wanted me to; afterall, who does not know that today Muslims hold the number 1 position and reputation for world terrorism? The reason why you don't read my rejoinder in that thread is that it was locked - unless you're blind as a bat to deliberately refuse to see it so. Making excuses again and again after I pointed it out in my previous rejoinder simply shows the hypocrisy in your motive - which is forgiveable, because that is what Muslims do. You didnt make reference to the thread opened by vicjustice where I showed you how christianity was spread through the use of force and sword. Same as above. Did you miss it? Babs, please don't try to confirm indeed that Muslims are under-educated. Unless you cannot read. Common enough of your denials and ignorance. please do justice to my questions on some verses from different versions. Lol. . . mr babs, how does your question say the same thing as Sura 19:71? I simply want to know how the verses you quoted from the Bible is saying the same thing as Sura 19:71 does. It's simply because you know your nightmares hinge on that verse from the Qur'an, that's why you continued to duck under the excuses you've been drumming up all along and coming here to praise runaway Tiptronic. There's no crime in praising runaways - it's not the first time Muslims have done so. What I simply ask of Muslims is not so difficult. As soon as they show the verse in the Qur'an for the "bridge" over Hell fire that Allah promised, then I'll gladly show you the answers to your nightmares. Oya, take that message again to your errand boys so that they know that the latest recommendation they offered you didn't work as well. Mr babs787, is it a hard thing to settle this simple question? Show me where in the Qur'an Allah promised a "bridge" over Hell fire, and I'll be okay with that. QED. If Allah did NOT say so at all in any verse (abrogated or otherwise) in the Qur'an, why are you trying to make him say what he did not say? Besides, from where in the Qur'an did your favorite translators find the "bridge" to insert in their own Qur'an that Allah mentioned nothing at all in his own Qur'an? Is that a hard thing to do and settle the small question? I really don't mind whatever scholars you can consult for your "explanation" or deception. But let your scholars simply bring out the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned the "BRIDGE" over Hell fire - and that is the one simple thing that will clear your pretended scholarship on the Forum. Abi, is that too DIFFICULT for you and your scholars to show? I beg una again: please give me the verse - any verse in the entire 114 chapters of the Qur'an - where Allah spoke of a BRIDGE over Hell fire. That is all, and that is simple. If there are NO deceptions, why is it taking you guys FOREVER to show the verse where you saw the "BRIDGE"? Cheers. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 3:04pm On Aug 11, 2007 |
@pilgrim Your drama will not work, and you're only making a good laugh of yourself. Really? We shall see as we proceed. You're such a joker - and you can add that up as another usual lie of Muslims that you're displaying here. You already know that it was NOT "only" M. M. Ghali I quoted, so why the childish denial? And come to Hilali (Hilali-Khan), I asked a pointed question as to where they got the "bridge" from that Allah never mentioned in the Qur'an - and you swerved like the typical dodger you are to play your usual games. WHERE did Hilali get the "bridge" in the Qur'an to make Allah say what is not in the Qur'an? Please give me that verse directly from the Qur'an (ANY TRANSLATION or VERSION or the Qur'an) - and I would agree with what you have severally tried to whip up here as "explanation". Where you get that deception here to be referring to Hilali is what you have to sort out. No games please, you hear? Sister, am not surprised at your confusion just because the verse didnt mention any bridge. If the Quran didnt mention bridge, please what are they passing over?
I know that you will cry at the mention of Jesus. Is that not written in your bible that he went to Hell? You have been the one crying that muslims have been deriding Jesus at mention of his name even while you yourself is very aware that the verse is being lifted from the bible. If someone goes into the bible to bring a verse for you, it is then you will say that muslims are deriding your faith. Like I keep saying, babs is ever ready to provide evidence for whatever you may be calling 'deriding JESUS' from your bible. In anycase, Jesus went to 'Hades' - the place of the departed. He did not go to 'the lake of fire' where the wicked shall be cast, and which is described in the Bible as the place prepared for the Devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41). Please what is your understanding of Hell? I will be giving you verses to show that babs has not been deriding Jesus but giving you what is in your bible. Let me shed more light on what you are confused about. According to the book of the acts of the Apostles Acts 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left (kataleipo) in hell (hades), neither his flesh did see corruption. (KJV translation) The word kataleipo means, 1) to leave behind a) to depart from, leave 1) to be left b) to bid (one) to remain c) to forsake, leave to one's self a person or thing by ceasing to care for it, to abandon, leave in the lurch 1) to be abandoned, forsaken d) to cause to be left over, to reserve, to leave remaining e) like our "leave behind", it is used of one who on being called away cannot take another with him 1) especially of the dying (to leave behind) f) like our "leave", leave alone, disregard 1) of those who sail past a place without stopping Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/2/1147370736-9394.html The word hades means, 1) name Hades or Pluto, the god of the lower regions 2) Orcus, the nether world, the realm of the dead 3) later use of this word: the grave, death, hell In Biblical Greek it is associated with Orcus, the infernal regions, a dark and dismal place in the very depths of the earth, the common receptacle of disembodied spirits. Usually Hades is just the abode of the wicked, Lu. 16:23, Rev. 20:13,14; a very uncomfortable place. Source: http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/8/1147369484-2683.html Bible commentator Matthew Henry says, Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell’’ (in hades, in the invisible state, so hades properly signifies); "but, though thou suffer it for a time to remove thither, and to remain there, yet thou wilt remand it; thou wilt not leave it there, as thou dost the souls of other men.’’ (Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible, Source) Please when you are through, you provide me the reason why Jesus had to go to Hell and not heaven straight? [quote[b]]It's not such a difficult thing to respond if you wanted me to[/b]; afterall, who does not know that today Muslims hold the number 1 position and reputation for world terrorism? The reason why you don't read my rejoinder in that thread is that it was locked - unless you're blind as a bat to deliberately refuse to see it so. Making excuses again and again after I pointed it out in my previous rejoinder simply shows the hypocrisy in your motive - which is forgiveable, because that is what Muslims do. [/quote] It is your problem not mine. You are free to comment on the atrocities here if the thread is locked. Lol. . . mr babs, how does your question say the same thing as Sura 19:71? I simply want to know how the verses you quoted from the Bible is saying the same thing as Sura 19:71 does. It's simply because you know your nightmares hinge on that verse from the Qur'an, that's why you continued to duck under the excuses you've been drumming up all along and coming here to praise runaway Tiptronic. You will never know and I will make you understand despite the fact that you will have nothing to offer as muslims have been doing. The reason for my question is that, you have been stiff-necked on the issue of 19v71 and I decided to let you reason from your bible cos your roundabout argument is not helping matters and will never help you. Now, you based your argument on the fact that the no bridge was mentioned and I provided you some different versions of the bible saying different things. Since you are not ready to think, I posed those questions to you to give me the versions that is saying the truth and nothing more. So please answer my question again. I asked you this in order to know the version that is correct and reliable. There's no crime in praising runaways - it's not the first time Muslims have done so. What I simply ask of Muslims is not so difficult. As soon as they show the verse in the Qur'an for the "bridge" over Hell fire that Allah promised, then I'll gladly show you the answers to your nightmares. Oya, take that message again to your errand boys so that they know that the latest recommendation they offered you didn't work as well. Muslims have provided answers but you are not ready to admit that fact. So please let me have answers to my questions and please when giving the answers, let me know the versions you are quoting from, then I will give you other versions that are saying different things.
Okay please if the Quran didnt mention any bridge, what are they passing over. My questions are still there for you to answer, you will still give me the creature that was crying and also the real age of saul and you will also tell the version you are lifting your answers from. I really don't mind whatever scholars you can consult for your "explanation" or deception. But let your scholars simply bring out the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned the "BRIDGE" over Hell fire - and that is the one simple thing that will clear your pretended scholarship on the Forum. Abi, is that too DIFFICULT for you and your scholars to show? No need doing that since you have already made up your mind and never ready to accept explanation. Here you are, I posed some questions to you saying different things from different versions of your bible but rather than answer the questions, you came up with your usual strategy of avoiding questions. Muslims have answered you, so please provide answers for me too. I came up with those questions just because you have been making fuss of yourself just because a bridge wasnt mention. Applying that to the bible too, one will notice that the versions of the bible arent saying same thing and if you think they are, please provide answers to my qeuestions and where you are lifting same from. I beg una again: please give me the verse - any verse in the entire 114 chapters of the Qur'an - where Allah spoke of a BRIDGE over Hell fire. That is all, and that is simple. Since you are not ready and up to mischief, please provide answers to my questions and the versions you are lifting from and when you are through, I will provide you other versions going against your own version.
Thanks |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by PTH(m): 4:13pm On Aug 11, 2007 |
this again is more evidence of the hypocrisy that is islam. The title of this topic says - ultimate truth and proof of islam. But as usual since the appologists of islam dont really have any truth or proof (not to talk of ultimate truth), they try to subvert the topic by bringing up their own "shed more light on these christian verses". This was not about the bible but about islam. stick to the topic if truly islam is not a fraud. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 6:03pm On Aug 11, 2007 |
You and your folks are the one behaving funny and avoiding my questions. You raised question on 19 v 71 just because the verse didnt mention bridge and probably the versions didnt use same english language and I brought out some verses from different versions of your bible saying different things. Muslims have provided detailed explanation to the verse but here you are yet to provide same to my question. I am still asking you people to furnish me with answers as to which creation was crying in the wilderness and the age of paul. To be honest with you, you will never be able to do that just because the versions are not saying the same thing. Some may have been as a result of the translators, the language used etc but at the same time, we may at the end of the day arrive at the same conclusion, this is what I have been trying to bring out to you hence my giving you bible verse from different versions. Try to provide explanation to my questions as muslims have done to your nightmare. This was not about the bible but about islam. stick to the topic if truly islam is not a fraud. Sure. If you are talking about fraud, there is no religion that is as fraudulent as CHRISTIANITY. The authors may have used different language in interpreting that verse but it gives same meaning and if you still disagree, please provide explanation to my question and supply the version you are using. We are still on the same topic man |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by Horus(m): 6:30pm On Aug 11, 2007 |
All Religions are fraudulent |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 12:22am On Aug 12, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: I didn't expect you'd come up with a stronger juju that you did last week. Who is more confused - you or your errand boys who have not been able to give you the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned a bridge over Hell fire? I've made it simpler for you all along: those translators who are interjecting their own ideas into the Qur'an are clutching at straws in trying to blow smoke into the eyes of Muslims who want to calm their fears that there might be a bridge over Hell fire! I'm really sorry for all those gullible souls who have not challenged those Muslim translators and just swallow everything they say. There is NO bridge over Hell fire in the Qur'an, babs. If there ever was, why has it taken you forever to offer that verse? Where did Hilali-Khan get that bridge that they have constructed into that verse? Where did Allah in the Qur'an ever suggest such a thing, if at all? Babs, grow up and boldly face up to the challenge to drop your al-taqiyya. You know very well that Hilali-Khan and all those Muslim politicized translators have interjected their own ideas into the Qur'an; and it is time to face up to it and go ask them to either give you that verse for the "bridge", or admit that Sura 19:71 says precisely what it says without any such "bridge". babs787: Rubbish. I merely threw you a bait - and like the hypocrite you are, you very well fell for it. Muslims pretend to the world that they "love" and "respect" ALL the prophets - including 'Jesus'. What that exercise merely did was to expose the hypocrisy and let the Muslim ummah know once and again that Muslims are typically known to deride Jesus - and you proved it precisely. babs787: That is why I've always asked you guys not to die in ignorance, even though you often expose how illiterate you can force yourselves to be. When you study the verses in the NT that speak of Jesus death and resurrection, it is clear that He did not go to HELL in terms of 'the lake of fire' (Rev. 20:10), which is the 'everlasting fire' prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41). The words translated as 'hell' in Acts 2:27 and 31 is HADES (άδης), which is simply the place of departed souls. It is not the same sphere as 'the lake of fire' prepared as the sphere for punishment of the wicked. You may want to stick to the KJV and the BBE among others which render that word as 'hell'; but there are scores of other translations that have a proper rendering of the word 'HADES' - and you can consult the following: HADES (άδης) -- Acts 2:27 & 31 >> ALT -- Analytical Literal Translation 'the realm of the dead [Gr., hades]' >> ASV -- American Standard Version 'Hades' >> Darby (A New Translation from the Original Greek, 1889) 'Hades' >> EMTV -- English Majority Text Version 'Hades' >> ESV -- English Standard Version 'Hades' >> GNB -- Good News Bible 'the world of the dead' >> HCSB -- Holman Christian Stand Bible 'Hades' >> ISV -- International Standard Version 'Hades' >> LITV -- Literal Translation of the Holy Bible 'Hades' >> YLT -- Young's Literal Translation 'Hades' >> Amplified 'Hades (the state of departed spirits)' . . . and several others (you may want to consult the [url=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=acts%202.27;&version=51;]New Living Translation[/url] on those verses and see the footnote: '[a. Acts 2:27 Greek in Hades; also in 2:31. ]'). All this simply proves your id'ea wrong, and Jesus did not go to 'Hell'. This is why I don't mind you guys showing your desperation by quoting the sweet-sounding political translations of the Qur'an; but at least be honest enough (if you've got any honesty) to quote the true English translations of the Qur'an and don't deceive people into thinking Allah mentioned any "bridge" in Sura 19:71 to make him say what he never mentioned at all in that verse of the Qur'an. If there is ANY 'bridge' over Hell fire in the Qur'an, please give us that verse. You don't need another whole MONTH to keep running in desperation and coming back with the same emptiness. You can also take this message from me to your errand boys: "WHY did you put a bridge in Sura 19:71 where Allah did not put any such bridge? Why make ALlah say what he did not say?" Maybe they will have a more magical al-taqiyya for you by next weekend. We're waiting. babs787: As for the 'lifting', you provided no verses; but to allay your Islamic fears, I have answered you both by quoting them (Acts 2:27 & 31), as well as taking you back to the Greek wordings to show that the word was HADES, and not Hell. And to the case of deriding Jesus, Muslims are well known for that - and you proved it once again. I'm just waiting for any of the same Muslim fellas or CCCA to come pretending that they did not see your derision. They're in for another sign-off as I sent Tiptronic packing. If it is your ife ambition to keep deriding Jesus, please go right ahead - you might only come back proving my point even more concretely. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 12:27am On Aug 12, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: The 'evidence' is what I have dealt with. If you need to take a heart attack, please do - no one will miss you at all. And when you're done sobbing, please salute your errand boys for me - and tell them that I simply want them to provide the verse in the Qur'an where they saw a "BRIDGE" that Allah never mentioned in any single verse of any Sura. Trying to make Allah say what he did not say is a grievious sin, Babs - I hope you and your translators are quite aware of that? Any translation will be just okay, thank you - as long as they're also ready to go back to the original Qur'an and prove indeed that Allah mentioned it in Sura 19:71 where he did not mention it at all. babs787: Great. Now let me show you what you missed here again. The word 'hell' in Luke 16:23 (KJV) is also HADES, and it is simply the place of departed spirits. HADES is NOT 'the lake of fire' - and the very Rev. 20:13,14 which YOU quoted makes the distinction between those two spheres quite clear! "And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell (HADES - αδης) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death" (Rev. 20:13 & 14). Verse 13 above shows that those who were held in captivity in HADES (as the rich man in Luke 16:23) were 'delivered up' (i.e., 'brought out' of that sphere); while verse 14 clearly shows that even HADES itself shall be 'cast into the lake of fire'! You can see the point I already made above in Acts 2:27 and 31 - that HADES (sphere of the departed) and 'the lake of fire' (HELL FIRE) are NOT the same thing! If you had been a careful reader, this should have been immediately clear to you!The second thing to note here is this: HADES is a single sphere that has two components: (a) the place where the wicked are kept until the day of Judgement; (b) the place of rest where the righteous wait until the glorious resurrection. These two spheres are lucidly given in Luke 16, and the key to understanding Jesus' parable in that chapter is to note that He wasn't speaking about the FINAL Judgement! Many people fail to see this, but vs. 22 says that when the beggar died, he was 'carried by angels into ABRAHAM's bossom'. Of course, Abraham's bossom is not 'heaven'; neither did Jesus mean by that parable to be speaking of the DAY of Judgement and Rewards. He spoke clearly of the two components of HADES - the one where the wicked are reserved unto the Day of Judgement to be punished (see and compare with 2 Pet. 2:9 and Jude 1:6); and the other component parabolically expressed as 'Abraham's bossom - which is the sphere of the righteous until the resurrection when they are rewarded (compare with Rev. 6:9 & 10). Thirdly, as regarding the "infernal regions", the Bible uses another word - GEHANNA - instead of 'hades'. Let's look more closely at this.Go back to the website (Blue Letter Bible) where you quoted the article on 'hades' from, and research on 'GEHENNA'. This is an excerpt of what they have there from two references (Easton's Bible Dictionary and International Standard Bible Encyclopedia): 1.
. . . and 2.
So, there's no confusing HADES and GEHANNA, mr. babs. . . because they're NOT referring to the same thing. 'Hades' is simply the place of the departed, where they are reserved unto the day of resurrection; while 'Gehenna' signifies the place of the FINAL Judgement - and this is clear enough in the second reference. However, just so that your confusion can be more easily put to rest, let me show you the difference in the Greek between those two words by quoting a few texts from the articles above: Matt. 10:28 - "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna)." Matt. 18:9 - "And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell (Gehenna) fire." Jas. 3:6 - "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell (Gehenna)." Now it becomes clear that when Acts 2:27 & 31 speak of HADES, it is not referring to GEHENNA - which simply points out that Jesus never went to HELL - 'the lake of fire'! babs787: I'm glad for your sake that you quoted Matthew Henry - for, as you can see, he did not refer to 'hell' as Gehenna, but clearly says it is HADES, and defines it simply as "the invisible state". The commentator does not define HADES as the place of the FINAL Judgement - because the verses do NOT teach that Jesus went to 'the lake of fire'! |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 12:32am On Aug 12, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: The answer is in the Bible: Ephesians 4:8-10 "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 1 Pet. 3:18 & 19 "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison." Those two passages highlight what Jesus did before He ascended to heaven. Muslims who pretend to have seriously read the Bible know this already; but as typically, they pretend never to have seen those verses. babs787: And you think that your latest juju that your errand boys delivered unto you has worked some applause after all the sweat? I wasn't stiff-necked on anything at all. All I asked (and still asking) is that Muslims hide their shame in the Arabian sands and simply tell the truth on that verse - THERE IS NO "BRIDGE" in Sura 19:71. Why make Allah say what he did NOT say in the Qur'an? Where did Hilali-Khan and his ilk get the "bridge" to insert and construct into the Qur'an that Muslim apologists have been using to deceive their ummah? If there was ever a "BRIDGE" over Hell fire in that verse, WHY is it taking you guys FOREVER to find and offer it to those who are asking? If the bridge is in the Qur'an in Sura 19:71, Babs do the simple sane thing and provide that verse for me. The deception of Hilali-Khan and his cohorts will simply not do. They have cleverly engineered that 'bridge' to make Allah say what he clearly did NOT say, and that is the deception I'm constantly challenging. Another message to your errand boys: PLEASE provide the verse in the Qur'an where Allah mentioned a "bridge" over Hell. QED. babs787: I will oblige you - it's not a difficult thing. At least, your fears on Acts 2:27 & 31 have been dealt with - even though your errand boys thought it would have worked the expected juju you had hoped for. The one thing I have asked is that hey provide me with the one verse in the entire 114 chapters of the Qur'an where Allah mentioned what your translators are making him say that he did NOT mention. If different versions are your latest worries, it's still a small thing. We know that there are spurious translations of both the Qur'an and the Bible out in the market; but the issue is more to the point that your Muslim translators are putting words into Allah's mouth and making him say what he never mentioned in the Qur'an! babs787: Muslims provided deception - not 'answers'. When they ran out of their deceptions, they also ran out of the Forum. As for the 'answers' you're noising here and there on various translations of the Bible, you can scroll up and chew on my answers as best you can. What your errand boys have not been able to do is provide the verse that makes Allah say what he clearly did not mention in the Qur'an. If they can simply show me that verse and save their deceptions for the Muslim ummah, then your worries would cease. As long as they want to make Allah say something he never said in the Qur'an, I'm still asking them to clarify on that fraud. babs787: You see how confused this one verse in the Qur'an is making you out for more than a month now? I asked for a simple verse, and the best you can come up with is another question to display your deception? C'mon Babs, no be today we know the games that Muslims play! The Qur'an did not say that people are "passing over" - and you have been slaving on that excuse endlessly to make it sound soothing to your brigand. Pity Tiptronic. . . he saw the noose and took off! babs787: Is that another way of sobbing that you don't want to discover the real truth behind the deceptions of your errand boys? Why is that simple assignment suddenly a big task for you? I certainly haven't made up my mind - and that is the reason why I have been asking EVERY single Muslim to simply provide the verse that says what your translators have tried to make Allah say! Just simply provide that verse and let's discuss it - is that such an enormous task that NONE of your Muslims 'scholars' can take up? |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 12:33am On Aug 12, 2007 |
@babs787, babs787: Muslims did not 'answer' me - they tried to blow smoke and offer the usual deceptions that the mullahs have embalmed their eyes with, but unfortunately it did not work on pilgrim.1 (ask Tiptronic why he avoided the pointed questions I offered him). If there's anyone who has been avoiding questions, we know YOU have a classic reputation for that - and I'm not competing that title with you! babs787: I've laid your nightmares to rest - there's actually no need to be whimpering like a child and repeating yourself endlessly like a broken record. The question on Sura 19:71 is not about translations saying 'different things' - so don't try that deception switch here to make it sound as if that is the core concern here. Anyhow you want to wangle it, the point is that there is no "bridge" over which people are "passing over" Hell fire. Those who have translated it t sound like that should also be responsible enough to give you WHERE inside the QUR'AN they saw the "bridge" that was never mentioned there! If Hilali-Khan and his folks saw a "bridge" where there was none, and he wanted to make chaps like you happy with that deception, I've asked that YOU and your lot take a closer look at the other Muslim translators who clearly translated it in the following ways: [Muhammad Sarwar]: 'It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that EVERY ONE OF YOU will be taken to hell.' [Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish]: "There is not one of you who shall not go down to it" These are just two Muslim translatoins (besides M. M. Ghali), and instead of discussing the real issue, you're slaving yourself over the deception of Hilali-Khan. Babs, brace up. . your penchant to cheat people on the Forum has gone out of use. Try something else. babs787: I would have liked to hold on until you obliged me answers to my questions. But just to let readers know your typical Muslim game of asking questions and never answering those offered to you, I decided to oblige you a detailed one on Acts 2:27 & 31. Since you love to be so dishonest in your fraudulent claims, you will just have to sit down and offer answers to questions from henceforth. Your antics, I have told you, will NEVER work on pilgrim.1 - and if you were smart, you should have alerted your errand boys long ago about this. Stay focused and address the issue on Sura 19:71 - it is for your own good. If you keep following Hilali-Khan et al and never seriously investigating their "translation" which they have flavoured with their ideas, no one would be held responsible for your misery. Just do the simple thing and ASK THEM where in the Qur'an they saw what they put there that Allah NEVER mentioned. Cheerio. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 12:41am On Aug 12, 2007 |
PTH: @PTH, It's not today that the Muslim game of deflecting topics have been recognized. We know them very well for their poor performance at trying to blow smoke into people's eyes, not to even mention that when their deception is clearly presented to them, then you see them in their true colours. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by pilgrim1(f): 1:09am On Aug 12, 2007 |
@babs787, You can't provide no verse in the Qur'an for the "bridge" over Hell fire which Hilali-Khan and others like them have constructed into Sura 19:71. Why make Allah say what he never mentioned in the first place, and then hiding under the abracadabra of those politicized "translations" pretending that people are "passing over" Hell fire? If at all the verse says that people will "pass over" Hell fire, what do you have to say about other MUSLIM translators that render it otherwise? Sample a few of them and please let me know what your errand boys have to say on them: [M. M. Ghali]: "And decidedly not one of you (there is), except that he will go (herded) down to it; that, for your Lord, has been a thing decreed, a must." [Muhammad Sarwar]: "It is the inevitable decree of your Lord that every one of you will be taken to hell." [Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish]: "There is not one of you who shall not go down to it: such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord." [Dr. Munir Munshey]: "There isn’t any of you who can avoid passing by the hellfire. Your Lord has made this incumbent upon Himself!" I have sought here to quote a few MUSLIM translators of the Qur'an - NONE of them give the idea that they saw any "bridge" over Hell fire (as Hilali-Khan is making people believe that was what Allah said in the Qur'an). Now could you kindly explain why these Muslim translators did not see a "bridge" in Sura 19:71 as Hilali-Khan constructed into that verse? Why make Allah say what he never mentioned at all in that verse, mr babs? What is the relationship between "pass over" (Hilali-Khan, Yusuf Ali, etc) and "go down to" (Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish)? Are they saying the same thing? Why do Hilali-Khan suggest a "bridge" is constructed over Hell fire where there is none, and others actually translate it clearly that Muslims will GO DOWN to Hell? Besides all this, if you care at all to be honest and not be hiding under the usual excuse of 'muslims have been giving answers' where it is clear that they have NOT (and neither have you), then I want an answer to this one as well: WILL MUSLIMS ENTER HELL or THEY WILL NOT? A simple question, a simple answer requested. Whenever you return from your errand, leave your games at home - they have never worked on pilgrim.1, and they will NEVER work on her! If you are still looking for the "bridge" over Hell that Allah never mentioned in the Qur'an, I wish you more sweat in finding it. But for now, just be good to yourself and search out the answer for your own destiny.Cheerio. |
| Re: Ultimate Truth & Proof On Islam by babs787(m): 12:29pm On Aug 18, 2007 |
@pilgrim You can't provide no verse in the Qur'an for the "bridge" over Hell fire which Hilali-Khan and others like them have constructed into Sura 19:71. Why make Allah say what he never mentioned in the first place, and then hiding under the abracadabra of those politicized "translations" pretending that people are "passing over" Hell fire? It seems you still do not understand my point and I wont beg you to do same. You are sticking to your gun just because the translations quoted didnt mention bridge. Am going through this extra mile just to point it out to you that you can not lift a verse and probably give it your own meaning just because you read some translations. Remember that, translators used different words in translating theirs just the case of KJV mentioning hell and others mentioning Hade you talked about. I have not gone much into that since thats not just the topic we are treating. Since you are staying glued to your own understanding, I posed some questions to you in which some translators used different words to interprete their bible but you havent provided explanation to that. I asked you to give me the real age of Paul which you havent done and I asked for the creature that was crying but no answer yet. You will never be able to give me answer because the translators used different words but all of them are claiming same thing, so also is the case of the Quran if you will reason with me and put away your mischief.
Pilgrim, just what I have been preaching. If you are arguing or confused just because some translators didnt say 'pass over hell', try to give me definite age of Paul and the creature crying in the sky. You will never be able to do that because if you give me a translator mentioning any figure, I will give you another translation saying something different from that and you will want to stick to that while I will tell you point blank that your translation is different from what I am having too. If you have been following my argument based on 19v71, I have been trying to let you know that picking at some translators just because they mentioned or they didnt mentioned what you wanted, will not be enough unless you back it up with explanations. In addition, I gave you different versions of the bible in which some versions said Peter went to the porch, some courtyard etc. If you provide me with some versions, i am ready to knock you out with other version, so also is the issue you have been having problem with all these while. I have sought here to quote a few MUSLIM translators of the Qur'an - NONE of them give the idea that they saw any "bridge" over Hell fire (as Hilali-Khan is making people believe that was what Allah said in the Qur'an). Now could you kindly explain why these Muslim translators did not see a "bridge" in Sura 19:71 as Hilali-Khan constructed into that verse? Why make Allah say what he never mentioned at all in that verse, mr babs? I have been trying to explain to you in the best way I can. You are condemning the verse just because Hilali mentioned it while others didnt. If that should be the case, for the purpose of clarity, please explain to me, the real age of paul, where peter was when he was asked question and the creature crying in the sky and when supplying your answer, provide the version you are lifting from please. What is the relationship between "pass over" (Hilali-Khan, Yusuf Ali, etc) and "go down to" (Hassan Qaribullah & Ahmed Darwish)? Are they saying the same thing? Why do Hilali-Khan suggest a "bridge" is constructed over Hell fire where there is none, and others actually translate it clearly that Muslims will GO DOWN to Hell? Okay, since you are not ready to understand and do away with your mischief, what is the relationship between 'hell' used in Kjv and 'hades' in other versions? Also what is the relationship between the age of paul in 1 samuel 13 v 1 New English bible says he was 50 years New international version says he was 30 amplified bible says he was 40 while in kjv version, Rsv, living bible, holy bible, new jerusalem bible etc his age when he began to reign is quite unknown. So please tell me the relationship. What is the relationship between an angel and an eagle or bird in revelation 8 v 13? Besides all this, if you care at all to be honest and not be hiding under the usual excuse of 'muslims have been giving answers' where it is clear that they have NOT (and neither have you), then I want an answer to this one as well: I have provided detailed explanation and backed same with explanation basede on versions of the bible. WILL MUSLIMS ENTER HELL or THEY WILL NOT? We will surely see as we proceed, please answer my questions please. I have explained to you. Sinners will surely enter Hell. Let me see where you will come from. Thanks |
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