Easily the pivot of Christianity from the very 1st Chapter of the Bible - FAITH; and for the sake of dis-ambiguity (foreclose unnecessary arguing to discover my true intent) :

1: FAITH as defined in the Bible Not Faith as-in Practice of Religion (5 pillars of Faith) or Motivational and Personality-improvement programs
2: My intention is not to prove FAITH a false paradigm but to propose a demonstration where FAITH can be either be proven TRUE or proven FALSE using a simple test condition e.g Healing an ailment

This is not intended to degrade into a Science vs. Religion or Science vs. God melee and for the sake of clarification, i state categorically that (IMHO) science is mostly about "tentatively proven" hypotheses given the possibility that some valid experiment could prove the hypotheses incorrect (not the same as being proven UNTRUE) so it can be rejected or corrected. So in science, absolute proof is usually impossible. From what we know today, there are some truths which are beyond the reach of science. FAITH is one of them.

As I looked for what i could term a concise definition, it came as a surprising find that there are several different (confusing) perspectives of what FAITH is made up of. So i shall default to the Biblical definition found in the book of Hebrews (seems to be the most comprehensive book on the theme)

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1, KJV).

I intentionally highlighted some words in RED because they represent key elements that describe FAITH from a Bible perspective. It is also an area I require a concise (unambiguous) answer on their specific synergies before I make "uninformed" and "uneducated" Bible interpretation that may detract from the purpose of the post.

Demonstrations of Faith
[list]
[li]And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3, NIV) my personal favorite  [/li]
[li]When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." (John 11:43, NAS)[/li]
[li]Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. (Mathew 21:19)[/li]
[li]A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, "If you are willing, you can make me clean. Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured. (Mark 1: 40-42)[/li]
[/list]

There are evidently numerous examples of God and Man exercising and activating Faith in the Bible so my questions are

1: How exactly does it work from Man's Point of view
2: How can we consistently apply it and get results using a test condition e.g Healing

Regards

lagerwhenindoubt:


Easily the pivot of Christianity from the very 1st Chapter of the Bible - FAITH; and for the sake of dis-ambiguity (foreclose unnecessary arguing to discover my true intent) :

1: FAITH as defined in the Bible Not Faith as-in Practice of Religion (5 pillars of Faith) or Motivational and Personality-improvement programs
2: My intention is not to prove FAITH a false paradigm but to propose a demonstration where FAITH can be either be proven TRUE or proven FALSE using a simple test condition e.g Healing an ailment

This is not intended to degrade into a Science vs. Religion or Science vs. God melee and for the sake of clarification,

i state categorically that (IMHO) science is mostly about "tentatively proven" hypotheses given the possibility that some valid experiment could prove the hypotheses incorrect (not the same as being proven UNTRUE) so it can be rejected or corrected. So in science, absolute proof is usually impossible. From what we know today, there are some truths which are beyond the reach of science. FAITH is one of them.

As I looked for what i could term a concise definition, it came as a surprising find that there are several different (confusing) perspectives of what FAITH is made up of.

So i shall default to the Biblical definition found in the book of Hebrews (seems to be the most comprehensive book on the theme)

lagerwhenindoubt:


Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen (Hebrews 11:1, KJV).

lagerwhenindoubt:


I intentionally highlighted some words in RED because they represent key elements that describe FAITH from a Bible perspective.

It is also an area I require a concise (unambiguous) answer on their specific synergies before I make "uninformed" and "uneducated" Bible interpretation that may detract from the purpose of the post.

Demonstrations of Faith
[list]
[li]And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. (Genesis 1:3, NIV) my personal favorite  [/li]
[li]When He had said these things, He cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth." (John 11:43, NAS)[/li]
[li]Seeing a fig tree by the road, he went up to it but found nothing on it except leaves. Then he said to it, "May you never bear fruit again!" Immediately the tree withered. (Mathew 21:19)[/li]
[li]A man with leprosy came to him and begged him on his knees, "If you are willing, you can make me clean. Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. "I am willing," he said. "Be clean!" Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured. (Mark 1: 40-42)[/li]
[/list]

There are evidently numerous examples of God and Man exercising and activating Faith in the Bible so my questions are

1: How exactly does it work from Man's Point of view
2: How can we consistently apply it and get results using a test condition e.g Healing

Regards

@lagerwhenindoubt

"Oro po ninu iwe kobo" literally meaning this is a tall order

because "How Does Faith Work . . ." can easily fall victim of oversimplifying

I like your approach (i.e. involving synergies . . .) but faith is not exclusive to only those synergies (i.e. substances and evidence) alone

There are a few other missing common denominators in the equation

I'll leave the other missing common denominators to your imagination to suss out . . .

By the way, note there are different kinds of faith though

Namely: No faith, little faith, absurd faith, pseudo-faith, amazing or baffling faith, big faith etc

Hmm, interestingly enough I really do like your posers (i.e. the two questions)

but hey, read Matthew 14:22-33 but pay particular attention to verses 27-31

[center]Matthew 14:22-33 (King James Version)

²²And straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away.

²³And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone.

²⁴But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary.

²⁵And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea.

²⁶And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear.

²⁷But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid.

²⁸And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water.

²⁹And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus.

³⁰But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.

³¹And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt?

³²And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased.

³³Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.[/center]

Matthew 14:22-33 does a better job than Hebrews 11:1

Hebrews 11:1 gives you a definition; a meaning of faith

but Matthew 14:22-33 is quintessence of how faith works

Matthew 14:22-33 demonstrates, encapsulates and captures faith working and failing

I sincerely hope you're able to picture and make out the dynamism and points how, why, when and where faith worked and failed in Matthew 14:22-33

Have fun amigo 

@e36991: Great illustration of faith. Eyes on the Prize! 

(Sorry, off-topic: I tried emailing you in reply but it bounced  Can you please send me that oga's email so I can mail him as suggested?  Thanks bro)

@e36991

[size=3pt]Thanks bro! [/size]

We can't in one word say all there us about faith. But faith is simply to act on the word of God.
As regards healing 

 I like the little illustration given by e36991

By the way, note there are different kinds of faith though

Namely: No faith, little faith, absurd faith, pseudo-faith, amazing or baffling faith, big faith etc

I will also like to add great faith, weak faith and strong faith.

The strength of the faith of a man has a lot to do with what he appropriate in the word of God. A man receive faith by knowing Gods word and he likewise develop his faith by thesame.  

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith[ cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 

That means also that a man with zero faith is a man that lack necessary knowledge or understanding of Gods word. A man with litle faith has little umderstanding  and a  man with great faith has great understamding.

A man that desire healing and the  man that want to minister healing both require faith. Except of course if the minister of healing is operating by The Gift of healing. Because the gift may not require faith sometimes but still does sometimes. Just like when Jesus went to his home town and could not do mighty miracles there because of their  Lack of faith. Even though Jesus had the gift of healing.

I will be able to contribute better if specific questions are asked .

@InesQor, I recall I still have an unanswered question you posed before Christmas. I shall get to it soon enough. 

@e36991
By the way, note there are different kinds of faith though
Namely: No faith, little faith, absurd faith, pseudo-faith, amazing or baffling faith, big faith etc

@Joagbaje
That means also that a man with zero faith is a man that lack necessary knowledge or understanding of Gods word. A man with litle faith has little understanding  and a  man with great faith has great understanding.

@e36991, @Joagbaje Thanks for your insightful contributions especially on varying levels of Faith. It is my first challenge in trying to establish a baseline necessary for Faith to exist in Man.

I refer to this quote from Mathew which goes so.

Matthew 17:20 He replied, "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

This comparison is just sublime - it demonstrates the infinitely powerful force that brought the world into being or caused the Sun to "Stand Still" or raise the Dead and so forth. I can understand that Man has Faith challenges which is why I am specific regarding Faith from Man's perspective. - God and Jesus obviously have no problems there  they can just do it without a moments thought.

because "How Does Faith Work . . ." can easily fall victim of oversimplifying
I like your approach (i.e. involving synergies . . .) but faith is not exclusive to only those synergies (i.e. substances and evidence) alone
There are a few other missing common denominators in the equation
I'll leave the other missing common denominators to your imagination to suss out . . .

I am aware of the temptation of Over-Simplifying How Faith Works and have witnessed Faith activating methods from MFM, Cele and Catholics. IMHO it forms a ritual of repeated affirmations that makes it look like you will need a mountain of mustard seeds to move a pebble. (Keep Banging on God's door until he answers) I do not see how that relates to the stellar examples in the Bible.

Self-Affirmations are a very potent tool of suggestion, motivation and belief, it can have a powerful effect on behavior-modification of the practitioner and in some of my experiments it has affected non-related persons at various levels. but this is not Faith because Faith has a completing Effect e.g Dead to Live, Sick to Healed and Nothing to Something there is no in-between.

It can be mentally taxing unlocking Faith which is why i ducked here  - Common denominators are essential in establishing a hypothesis so it can be tested. I really need those common denominators. any takers?

I have a somewhat sketchy basis for Faith summarized below
1: It is Present-tense and speech-driven (See my list of Demonstrations of Faith)
2: It requires regular operation to keep it at Peak levels
3: It requires action on the unseen

Primarily from these verses

Do not let this Book of the Law depart from your mouth; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful. Joshua 1:8

Death and life are in the power of the tongue, and those who love it will eat its fruits. (Proverbs 18:21)

Yea, a man will say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith apart from thy works, and I by my works will show thee my faith. (James 2:18)

I reason there are three steps involved (which are actually specific questions for Joagbaje)
1: Acquiring Faith: Spawning the seeds of belief that will manifest into substance (How do you acquire Faith)
2: Acting by Faith: Operating that belief on a subject of choice (How do you operate/grow Faith)
3: Activating Faith : Completing the operation confirmed by the manifestation of belief into substance (How do you switch it on)

Unfortunately my simplified version has not been able to put out a candle in months which is why I preferred Healing as the subject matter. there have been countless reports from Bible days till date so someone definitely has the formula locked-down

lagerwhenindoubt

"Oro po ninu iwe kobo" is an understatement . . .

As of time of posting then and even now, how faith works as in line with healing was deliberately side stepped

The healing aspect was bypassed because we need first to be aware of the other elements

(i.e. be familiar with the variables and/or constants in the denominator array)

Trust me, except for certain red herrings (i.e. missing constants in the locked down formula) as regards to healing, Matthew 14:22-33, is the perfect example of how faith works or does not work

Why are we putting the cart before the horse, huh?

Did Matthew 14:22-33 not throw up any helpful hint or pointers at all?

Let’s scrutinize Matthew 14:22-33 together and do things orderly (i.e. one after another)

"Aa nkanju la obe gbigbona" meaning literally Easy tiger slow and steady wins the race

The moment the values of the other elements that make up how faith works have been established, we can then criss-cross

because by then we are ready to engage in tackling how faith works or does not work as regards with healing as the subject matter

I can relate. One feels one knows where you're coming from and heading to . . . 

@@e36991 Happy New Year !

Let’s scrutinize Matthew 14:22-33 together and do things orderly (i.e. one after another)

I am scrutinizing the passage in question and I am also cross-referencing it with other passages with Faith events in the Bible. It will take a while but in the end i shall have a tidy list of Faith events with their demonstrated levels of faith and actions preceding the completion of Faith. (You had to make me do the grind work)

I might also come up with suitable adjectives for common denominators that make up the Faith formula, and about where i am headed; I promise i won't turn faith into an over-the=counter prescription that people can just swallow and make miracles but my won't that be a trip

lagerwhenindoubt:


@e36991 Happy New Year !

I am scrutinizing the passage in question and I am also cross-referencing it with other passages with Faith events in the Bible.

It will take a while but in the end i shall have a tidy list of Faith events with their demonstrated levels of faith and actions preceding the completion of Faith.

(You had to make me do the grind work)

I might also come up with suitable adjectives for common denominators that make up the Faith formula, 

and about where i am headed; I promise i won't turn faith into an over-the-counter prescription that people can just swallow and make miracles 

but my, won't that be a trip

@lagerwhenindoubt

Ditto with a Joyful New Year to you bro'

Grind work ke? 

You're originally quick and mentally bright to cop that out

It just confirms why I admire and take a shine to you

Bet you'll agree it's a bit premature for charity (i.e. spoon feeding) at this moment or stage

Dont you think, we'll have a fair chance of cracking this, with me playing the midwife and wiping your brow whilst you do the necessary pushes?

Hey whilst you're at it, for encouragement and the added excitement bonus, take a peek at Mark 9:29

"And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting" - Mark 9:29 KJV

Bet you're getting worked up now with hands clasped and a comic grin on your face because of that bit of shrapnel

Break a leg 

the islamic extremist has FAITH he'll be chillin in paradise with 99 virgins if he flew a plane into a building filled with infidels, and GBAM! works quite alright. same with the christians who believe through FAITH that god impregnated a virgin in order to give birth to himself. and what of the FAITH those jewish normads in the bible who went on a genocidal rampage massacreing both innocent children and women and ANIMALS through the orders of mr. I AM, and keeping only (yea, you guessed right) the VIRGINS. what's with the infatuation of these gods with virgins sef?

Tuesday, August 20, 2013

Faith vs. Presumption

Jesus said, "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."1

I remember reading in Reader's Digest about a company who glued a mustard seed to a brochure that was advertising the product they were manufacturing. Beneath the mustard seed they had a caption that went something like the following: "If you have faith as much as a grain of mustard seed in our product, you will see a mountain of difference in what you are trying to achieve."

Some months later a customer wrote back to the company saying, "You will be interested to know that I planted your mustard seed and it has already grown into a very robust plant—bearing healthy tomatoes!"

For our purpose what kind of seed the advertiser used doesn't really matter, but for us to achieve anything worthwhile with our life, our faith needs to be genuine and based on reality, not on some grandiose fantasy.

Every one of us has a mountain or two in our life that we need to remove, be it a bad habit, an addiction, an impaired or toxic relationship, an unforgiving spirit, or whatever. To assume that God will remove these mountains without our accepting full responsibility for doing our part isn't faith—it's presumption—and presumption won't make it.

Sometimes, too, we want to do something strictly for our own end. To justify it we say it is God's will or God is leading me or told me to do such and such. When we do this with an impure motive, this too isn't faith but presumption.

Many people believe that if they do more good deeds than bad deeds, this will qualify them for entering God's heaven. Others believe that all religions lead to God and, if adhered to religiously, will qualify them for entering God's heaven. Unfortunately these are presumptions. The only way to qualify for God's heaven is to have faith in the way God has stated in his Word, the Bible, and that is through Jesus who said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father [God] except through me."2

When it comes to life after death, presumption can be fatal—eternally fatal. Faith is crucial but it needs to be in the right "seed"—and that is, in the saving gospel message of Jesus Christ. For help see the article, "How to Be Sure You're a Real Christian," at: www.actsweb.org/christian.

Suggested prayer: "Dear God, please deliver me from the fatal folly of presumption and help me to always have faith in your ways as found in your Word, the Bible. Sometimes I feel like the man in the Bible who said, 'Lord I believe. Help thou my unbelief.' Thank you for hearing and answering my prayer. Gratefully, in Jesus' name, amen."

1. Matthew 17:20 (NIV).
2. John 14:6 (NIV).

<)))><

Monday, August 19, 2013

[size=18pt]Faith Without Action[/size]

"Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead."1

Napoleon Hill said, "Whatever the mind can conceive and believe can be achieved." While this statement sounds rather grandiose, there is certainly a measure of truth in it. It's somewhat similar to what Jesus said two thousand years earlier: "According to your faith be it unto you."2 But as James, the brother of Jesus, explained, without action faith is useless.

As the old saying goes, you can't steer a ship or a bicycle to go anywhere until they're moving. Zig Ziglar in his book, See You at the Top, put it this way: "The largest locomotive in the world can be held in its tracks while standing still simply by placing a single one-inch block of wood in front of each of the eight drive wheels. The same locomotive moving at 100 miles per hour can crash through a wall of steel reinforced concrete five feet thick."

The important thing is that we get moving! As James said, "Faith without works is dead."

Some people are sitting around waiting for some kind of special call or revelation from God before they get involved in his work. It's not likely to happen because God has already given us lots of instructions in his Word regarding what to do. All we need to do is read these instructions … and start moving into action!

Suggested prayer: "Dear God, please help me to be a doer of your Word and not just a hearer. Thank you for hearing and answering my prayer. Gratefully, in Jesus' name, amen."

1. James 2:17 (NIV).
2. Matthew 9:29.

<)))><

lagerwhenindoubt:
There are evidently numerous examples of God and Man exercising and activating Faith in the Bible so my questions are

1: How exactly does it work from Man's Point of view
2: How can we consistently apply it and get results using a test condition e.g Healing
Regards

First, contrary to what many may like to believe, Hebrews 11 vs 1 does not contain a definition of the word faith . Rather what the writer does in the context is attempts a figurative comparison of faith with the evidence/substance, the promises of God, that come as a result of ir. Faith itself is not defined in the context of that passage. For this reason, the word faith, in the context, is used in reference to efforts made by such a person as Abraham while pointing out the evidence/benefits that resulted from such effort.

God Himself explained what the word faith means in Genesis 26 vs 5 when He pointed out that the reason why He made a promise to Abraham had to do with the fact that Abraham lived his life in submission and obedience of His, God's, teachings and commandments - Faith. God gave that as the one and the only reason why He made Abraham His friend. This offer we observe Jesus Christ makes with all those of His followers who will do as He says - John 15 vs 9 -14 — those who will submit to and obey His teachings and commandments in the Kingdom of God. So, there you have it. Faith refers to living one's life in continuous submission and obedience to God's commandments and teachings, and in our case, in Jesus Christ. This definition is observed as being used in the Old Testament as well as in the New Covenant by Jesus Christ Himself.

Joagbaje:
We can't in one word say all there us about faith. But faith is simply to act on the word of God.
As regards healing  I like the little illustration given by e36991 I will also like to add great faith, weak faith and strong faith. The strength of the faith of a man has a lot to do with what he appropriate in the word of God. A man receive faith by knowing Gods word and he likewise develop his faith by thesame.  

Romans 10:17
17 So then faith[ cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. 

That means also that a man with zero faith is a man that lack necessary knowledge or understanding of Gods word. A man with litle faith has little umderstanding  and a  man with great faith has great understanding. A man that desire healing and the  man that want to minister healing both require faith. Except of course if the minister of healing is operating by The Gift of healing. Because the gift may not require faith sometimes but still does sometimes. Just like when Jesus went to his home town and could not do mighty miracles there because of their  Lack of faith. Even though Jesus had the gift of healing. I will be able to contribute better if specific questions are asked .

Now Paul's submission in Romans 2 insists that hearing(auditory perception) of God's law alone does not endear one to God, but rather the doing of the Law is what makes one right with God. And doing of God's Law — obedience to God's teachings and commandments — is what we know from examining the case of Abraham — is what Faith is in fact about.

12 People who have the law and those who have never heard of the law are all the same when they sin. People who don’t have the law and are sinners will be lost. And, in the same way, those who have the law and are sinners will be judged by the law.
13 Hearing the law does not make people right with God. They will be right before him only if they always do what the law says.
14 Those who are not Jews don’t have the law. But when they naturally do what the law commands without even knowing the law, then they are their own law. This is true even though they don’t have the written law. - Romans 2 vs 12 - 14

lagerwhenindoubt:
■I am scrutinizing the passage in question and I am also cross-referencing it with other passages with Faith events in the Bible. It will take a while but in the end i shall have a tidy list of Faith events with their demonstrated levels of faith and actions preceding the completion of Faith. (You had to make me do the grind work)
■ I might also come up with suitable adjectives for common denominators that make up the Faith formula, and about where i am headed; I promise i won't turn faith into an over-the=counter prescription that people can just swallow and make miracles but my won't that be a trip

1. While cross-referencing is a great idea, compiling a list of what you term faith events, which is pretty much what I believe the author of Hebrews 11 also did, will not give you incite into what faith is.

2. To what end?

Mudley313:
the islamic extremist has FAITH he'll be chillin in paradise with 99 virgins if he flew a plane into a building filled with infidels, and GBAM! works quite alright. same with the christians who believe through FAITH that god impregnated a virgin in order to give birth to himself. and what of the FAITH those jewish normads in the bible who went on a genocidal rampage massacreing both innocent children and women and ANIMALS through the orders of mr. I AM, and keeping only (yea, you guessed right) the VIRGINS. what's with the infatuation of these gods with virgins sef?

That isn't the same kind of faith that Jesus Christ taught His disciples to live.