Please be specific - do people tithe services? Do they tithe merchandise? If you're saying that your meaning of income includes all those, does that mean you agree that tithes included money in Scripture? If not, why do you include it as income in this case?

Is wordtalk totally ignorant?  Does he/she not understand the difference between money as an asset and money earned as income?  Does he/she not understand the difference between merchandise as an asset and merchandise as income?

Geez!  The more he/she speak the more he/she shows his/her ignorance.

THE WORD ASSET IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.  I ALSO CAN'T FIND THE WORD ASSET IN THE HEBREW DICTIONARY.  THE WORD MAY NOT HAVE EXISTED AT THAT TIME.  CAN'T WORDTALK GET IT THROUGH HIS/HER HEAD THAT I AM USING ASSET(S) AS A DESCRIPTION?  IS HE/SHE REALLY THAT DENSE OR IS HE/SHE PLAYING GAMES HERE?

wordtalk is either playing games here, really ignorant,  or just plan evil.

garyarnold:

[i]wordtalk is either playing games here, really ignorant,  or just plan evil.

[size=13pt]His just been evil. Because anyone supporting or collecting tithes today is a messanger of satan. [/size]

@gary
I wouldn't bother any more if I were you, in the days she/he was still using the now dis-credited pilgrim.1 username, I had these same debates with her and it went on for several weeks. It became glaring to me that she/he knew the truth but would rather stick to her adept manipulation of scripture for whatever evil agenda she/he is pursuing. Her strategy is to use semantics, grab at straws and generally do everything to obfuscate the real issues whilst trying to push forward her/his tithing agenda in a suttle and 'innocent' manner. I really wonder how someone who claims to be a christian and is so informed would feel comfortable with defending the tithing fraud.

MrBible:

[size=13pt]His just been evil. Because anyone supporting or collecting tithes today is a messanger of satan. [/size]

No problem. I can stand any kind of slander - 'evil', 'satan', 'devil', and many more. Does your slander make you more spiritual - Proverbs 10:18?

none is tithing (that is a church fabrication to make you part with your money typically to church coffers only) . . . but all are giving . . . cheerfully i would go with B and C.

garyarnold:

Is wordtalk totally ignorant?

No. That is why I continue to question your assertions and ask for Biblical proof for your 'asset'. You go about haranguing others who use a more appropriate term in Scripture - but you have not been able to show any verse in your beloved KJV.

Does he/she not understand the difference between money as an asset and money earned as income?

I totally do. I am not the one who said that tithes are from "asset"; nor did I argue that tithes were from "sale". The reason why you're ever so restless is because you know you can't cheat by asserting these things and running away with them! if you were a bit closer to common sense, why has it been ever so difficult to find the verse for asset in your KJV?

Does he/she not understand the difference between merchandise as an asset and merchandise as income?

I absolutely do. I find it quite unnecessary that you would mention them if they had no bearing in your arguments - that was why I queried them. NOWHERE did i assert anything about their being things from which Israel gave tithes. If they do not have any bearing, then don't try to call them into discussions to help you hide your excuses.

Geez!  The more he/she speak the more he/she shows his/her ignorance.

You can accuse all you want - it takes nothing away from the fact of your sham. if you have anything to say about asset from the Bible, please show it simply.

THE WORD ASSET IS NOT IN THE BIBLE.

Good. Then by all means stop trying to cheat yourself and your plaudits by making assertions about concepts which you cannot defend from the Bible - KJV or any other. The one reason why you know you can't cheat by that word is simple: look up the etymology of that word and knock yourself out!

I ALSO CAN'T FIND THE WORD ASSET IN THE HEBREW DICTIONARY.

Super! So, you have to admit that you have been peddling your fallacies for ages to those who can applaud you for your illiterate claims. Nice one.

THE WORD MAY NOT HAVE EXISTED AT THAT TIME.

Oh shut up! Go and surprise yourself by looking up its etymology and see for yourself WHY no other translations even remotely used that word from the hebrew.

CAN'T WORDTALK GET IT THROUGH HIS/HER HEAD THAT I AM USING ASSET(S) AS A DESCRIPTION?

No, I can get the fact that you were cheating by using that word for your arguments while attacking others for the more appropriate term INCOME which is derived from the hebrew 'tebuah'.

IS HE/SHE REALLY THAT DENSE OR IS HE/SHE PLAYING GAMES HERE?

I wasn't playing games - and I saw through your legerdemain from the onset. Shout all you want, cheat with 'asset', wave your cards magically to pretend your scholarship that is now bereft and empty - and now what?

wordtalk is either playing games here, really ignorant,  or just plan evil.

All and more as suits you - just accuse as may help you sleep well.

You are right, Pastor Kun. It is really a waste of time to discuss anything with wordtalk. The devil has put him/her here to cause havoc and confusion. But those who really have the Spirit will see through it all.

garyarnold:

You are right, Pastor Kun. It is really a waste of time to discuss anything with wordtalk. The devil has put him/her here to cause havoc and confusion. But those who really have the Spirit will see through it all.

This is not the first time you have insinuated the devil slanderously at me.

The one thing I constantly find in many anti-tithers is the penchant to slander others. You can't reason rationally until you have vilified others to make you feel more spiritual and self-justified. Whatever claims you may make about having the Spirit, I know that you certainly do not demonstrate His leading by such behaviour.

'Slander is the trademark of fools and haters (Prov. 10:18), and an unceasingly accusing tongue is for losers (Rev. 12:10).'

wordtalk:

'Slander is the trademark of fools and haters (Prov. 10:18), and an unceasingly accusing tongue is for losers (Rev. 12:10).'

chei!

wordtalk:

No problem. I can stand any kind of slander - 'evil', 'satan', 'devil', and many more. Does your slander make you more spiritual - Proverbs 10:18?

[size=13pt]Galatians 2:4
And that because of the false brothers let in secretly, who came searching out our free condition which we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might make servants of us; - By collecting tithes[/size]

MrBible:

[size=13pt]Galatians 2:4
And that because of the false brothers let in secretly, who came searching out our free condition which we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might make servants of us; - By collecting tithes[/size]

I'm glad you added "By collecting tithes" on your own - people like you will always add your own words into simple texts in order to justify yourselves. Galatians 2:4 is not about or against tithes - the false brothers there have nothing to do with tithes; and you will not find tithes mentioned in any verse in Galatians, because that is not what Paul was arguing against!

The only way you can pat your conscience is to add, edit, delete, format, reformat, formulate your own lopsidedness into a text that has nothing to do with your problems - continue: it happens all the time!

wordtalk:

I'm glad you added "By collecting tithes" on your own - people like you will always add your own words into simple texts in order to justify yourselves. Galatians 2:4 is not about or against tithes - the false brothers there have nothing to do with tithes; and you will not find tithes mentioned in any verse in Galatians, because that is not what Paul was arguing against!

The only way you can pat your conscience is to add, edit, delete, format, reformat, formulate your own lopsidedness wisdom into a text that has nothing to do with your problems truth - continue: it happens all the time!

[size=13pt]False brothers like you are the ones Paul was referring to, because you and your friends are trying to put believers back in the bondage Christ has freed us from[/size]

^^
I wasn't surprised you would prove what I said about you - do it again: quote my comments to add, edit, delete, format, reformat, formulate your own lopsidedness - it happens all the time.

@garyarnold,
let the independent mind draw their own conclusions.
However thanks for admitting your use of the word 'asset' was your own making, therefore please do not force it down our throats esp since the biblical word is available.
I can see however you are now preaching 'compulsory' 'do it only my way' giving. You claim to give far far far more than a mere tenth, let those that give the biblical tenth as well as other givings do so as persuaded in thier hearts, after all is this not what this is all about?

However thanks for admitting your use of the word 'asset' was your own making,

My making? There are pastors who teach that the Biblical tithe was on ASSETS. I've seem it on youtube.

I didn't make up the word asset(s).

Also, definitions of words change over the years, so for someone to say that the Hebrew word for increase also means income can be in error when you apply TODAY'S definition of income.

It's really so simple, but there will always be those who want to complicate things. And there are those who have such big egos that to say they tithe just plain makes them feel so good!

Game playing is what is going on in this blog.

garyarnold:

However thanks for admitting your use of the word 'asset' was your own making,

My making? There are pastors who teach that the Biblical tithe was on ASSETS. I've seem it on youtube.

I didn't make up the word asset(s).

Also, definitions of words change over the years, so for someone to say that the Hebrew word for increase also means income can be in error when you apply TODAY'S definition of income.

It's really so simple, but there will always be those who want to complicate things. And there are those who have such big egos that to say they tithe just plain makes them feel so good!

Game playing is what is going on in this blog.

So you basically 'lifted' the word for what a 'pastor' said and you have been running with it like your life depends on it?
Is that not what you have been preaching against?

It is you I see trying to act superior since you 'give far far far more than a mere tenth'

The amazing thing is that no one has any issues with the percentage, amount you decide to give, it is you making a whole law case about it.
It is you trying to act all 'good'.

Since you claim the use of the word 'increase', 'income' might not be the same in today's context, please provide a shred of evidence to back that up, but please and please do not 'force' us to accept your unsubstantiated claims.
Assets or not, however, like i said earlier, does not help your 'baseless' (until proven) arguments.

wordtalk:

^^
I wasn't surprised you would prove what I said about you - do it again: quote my comments to add, edit, delete, format, reformat, formulate your own lopsidedness wisdom - it happens all the time.

[size=13pt]Galatians 2:4
And that because of the false brothers let in secretly, who came searching out our free condition which we have in Christ Jesus, so that they might make servants of us; - By collecting tithes[/size]

garyarnold:

My making? There are pastors who teach that the Biblical tithe was on ASSETS. I've seem it on youtube.

That some people are teaching this or that on Youtube does not mean you have to pick it up and run errand for them! You have accused others of not doing their own independent study - how come you did not carefully check out this youtube thing before trying to use it as your police baton on others who point to a more appropriate word derived from the hebrew 'tebuah'?

I didn't make up the word asset(s).

Whether so or not, the use of that word should have a bearing for what you claim - well attested to by clear derivation from Scripture. That is where you totally failed, and that was the genesis of your problem in this whole drama. This was why I pointedly asked you to take the simple way out by checking the etymology of that word and see all the difference it makes.

Also, definitions of words change over the years,

That's true - and we have no problem with that. The point where your arguments were spinning out of control is where you wanted to force a word that has transited through several modifications while denying others the freedom to use their own contemporary meaning of income!

I have stated that: (a) I could help you make a cogent argument for asset in Scripture, even though that word is not used in those connections; and (b) I would do so on the basis that you allow others in the same manner to use their own modified expressions to make meaningful contributions. But since you argued once that 'an asset is an asset' (although I wanred you it was too broad a term), I felt you're hitting a dead end!

. . so for someone to say that the Hebrew word for increase also means income can be in error when you apply TODAY'S definition of income.

Are you not the same person who has tried to harangue others for using contemporary definitions on tithes and other concepts? There's no arguing that 'tebuah' includes the definition of income in those verses - but then again, where do we find the hebrew expression for assets?

It's really so simple, but there will always be those who want to complicate things.

You're the one complicating things for yourself - afterall, it is not as if you had a good grasp of what you were arguing if you merely picked it up from youtube! If you try to complicate things for yourself, you will only hit a dead end everytime!

And there are those who have such big egos that to say they tithe just plain makes them feel so good!

Did it not make you feel good and egoistic to claim that you give between 25-30 percent of your income - and you're retired? Did you feel bad after bragging in that manner? Did you not feel so good in claiming that you give "far, far, far, far above" a tenth? What are you then complaining about in those who give a tenth?

"The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God" (Romans 14:22) - do not live a life of judging others on the same things that you approve for yourself.

Game playing is what is going on in this blog.

You played your games and scored in your own goal post - that's why you're in such a bad frame of mind. Take it easy and learn to reason with people: that way, you won't have to run around with stuff you pick up from youtube.

So you basically 'lifted' the word for what a 'pastor' said and you have been running with it like your life depends on it?
Is that not what you have been preaching against?

More lies.  More misquotes.

Before I ever heard or read anywhere that the tithe was on assets, I figured that out on my own when I read the scriptures.  My whole career depended on me knowing the difference between assets and income.  I learned the difference in high school.

The first time I heard a pastor say you tithe on your gross income, I felt that the pastor probably didn't even know the proper definition of gross income.  I have asked several pastors to explain gross income to me, and not even one of them know the correct meaning.  Pastors use accounting terms but don't understand what they mean.

garyarnold:

More lies. More misquotes.

He asked a question - if that was not what you implied, then simply answer the question rather than conclude he was lying or misquoting you.

Before I ever heard or read anywhere that the tithe was on assets, I figured that out on my own when I read the scriptures. My whole career depended on me knowing the difference between assets and income. I learned the difference in high school.

WHERE in Scripture did you figure out that 'asset' is found? You make claims to sound intelligent and yet show absolutely NOTHING for your claims. Anybody could have figured out anything in high school - let's see the proof of their claims in order to settle matters once and for all! Take the easy way out: look for the etymology of your 'asset'. End of!

The first time I heard a pastor say you tithe on your gross income, I felt that the pastor probably didn't even know the proper definition of gross income. I have asked several pastors to explain gross income to me, and not even one of them know the correct meaning. Pastors use accounting terms but don't understand what they mean.

You're just telling stories. Leave the pastors alone, and show us proof of your own!

@garyarnold,
you initially claimed the use of the word 'asset' in this context was not your making, that pastors on youtube use it, so in other words, you got it from there, now you say you have figured it out before then.
Do you enjoy 'tying yourself up in a knot'?

I can see your boast in your accounting 'knowledge' and all, not an issue, however you are yet to show how this whole arguments relates to what you figured out.

Snowwy:

I can see your boast in your accounting 'knowledge' and all, not an issue, however you are yet to show how this whole arguments relates to what you figured out.

That's the whole point he doesn't get! When he runs out of steam, he resorts to empty boasts and story telling - yet his claims and assertions stand as empty as they were from the beginning!

WHERE in Scripture did you figure out that 'asset' is found?

Can someone actually be that dumb?

you initially claimed the use of the word 'asset' in this context was not your making, that pastors on youtube use it, so in other words, you got it from there, now you say you have figured it out before then.


I did no such thing.  I have been teaching the asset interpretation for years.  I merely said that I didn't "invent" the word asset.  I got it from my accounting classes, not any pastor.

The misquotes and misinformation just keeps on coming!

however you are yet to show how this whole arguments relates to what you figured out.

It was a NO-BRAINER. Since I knew what an asset is, and what income is, it was easy to "figure out" that the crops and animals are assets.

This is just too easy. Problem is, I am trying to communicate with those who have no knowledge of accounting terms including the ones they use; i.e. income.

I have better things to do than waste my time with those who must be playing games. Can't believe people can be this dumb!

garyarnold:

Can someone actually be that dumb?

Perhaps you are? If you don't find asset in Scripture, how come you're trying to pass it off as if it made you more intelligent to tell stories about having figured it out in high school? What dumb quip is that?

I did no such thing.  I have been teaching the asset interpretation for years.

For years you've been teaching a completely fabricated thesis of your own which you can't defend in Scripture. That's the whole point, isn't it? You thought you've got it all wrapped up until it had to be challenged to see you had absolutely no foundation for that teaching.

I merely said that I didn't "invent" the word asset.  I got it from my accounting classes, not any pastor.

Whatever, you had to finally admit you can't find any basis for that teaching in Scripture.

The misquotes and misinformation just keeps on coming!

More excuses, twists and turns.

No need to cry foul garyarnold,
if there is anyone to claim being misquoted it is me.
I said the 'use of the word 'asset' was your own making', not 'asset was your own making'.
Obviously you did not create the word, i meant the 'use' of the word asset, obviously in this context.
Scroll up and quote me where i said 'asset was your own making'.

I however do not expect you to respond based on your last post, let's see how you will at least stand by what you say at least this once.

garyarnold:

I have better things to do than waste my time with those who must be playing games. Can't believe people can be this dumb!

Just shut up and get totally lost! You bring forth a very dumb argument that you have been teaching to dumb people in your dumb universe all these years so you can feel 'good'. After playing your games and scoring against your own goal post, you suddenly woke up to discover you've been wasting your time!

Scamper along and look for another dumb blog to spew your intellectual excreta!

I'm considering starting church business. Please share this market research with me once concluded. Tenz.

garyarnold:
But it must be emphasized that a person would have to have the tenth of the crops to come up with the value before they could add the extra fifth.  No one could just come up with money for the tithe.  They couldn't sell the crops and then pay a tenth from the income, profit, or gain they received.

No dispute here gary

I voted "None of the 3" as the idea of tithes, which connotes a compulsion or law is not for Christians i.e. those who follow Christ's example.
Below is a rehash of an earlier post:


long discourse that addresses the main fallacies used to confuse christians into paying tithes to God who is (mis)represented by these pastors. Try reading to the end and meditate thereon, checking the relevant bible references as well. Shalom
--------------------

As a sequel to my last article debunking Mr. Enoch Adejare Adeboye’s claims about tithing, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, I hereby present a court scenario in which a namesake of the General Overseer of the Redeemed Christian Church of God stands before the Great Judge of all the earth, the Lord Jesus Christ, on this subject. Enjoy the engaging conversation:

Jesus: Enoch, you have been charged with multiple counts of extortion. Your crime spree covers 20 years and thousands of victims. You have defrauded people out of their money with fear and manipulation, telling them they had to tithe 10% of their income to your church and that God would bless them if they did. You also told them that if they didn’t tithe they would go to hell. How do you plead?

Pastor Enoch: I plead not guilty, sir. I have done nothing wrong. I have only preached what the Bible says. In the Bible Abraham tithed to Melchizedek and God blessed him for his faithful giving. The Bible even says he was rich in silver and gold.

Jesus: Is it not true, Enoch, that in Genesis chapter 13 verse 2 the Bible says Abraham was rich with livestock, silver and gold?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, you are exactly right, that’s what I just told you.

Jesus: Ok, we read about Abraham being a rich man in chapter 13. But it is not until Genesis chapter 14 that we read about Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek. So Abraham was already a rich man before he tithed to Melchizedek, wasn’t he?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose you are right.

Jesus: So his riches were not the result of his tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Enoch, you also say God blessed him for his faithful giving. How many times is it recorded that Abraham gave tithes to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, just once.

Jesus: So the Bible never said that he gave week after week?

Pastor Enoch: No; it does not.

Jesus: Where did Abraham get the things that he gave to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: Well, the Bible says it was from the plunders of war.

Jesus: So you are telling me that he gave from the plunders of war?

Pastor Enoch: Yes that’s what the Bible says.

Jesus: So he basically took things that were not really his in the first place and gave them as the tithe?

Pastor Enoch: That is what the scripture seems to indicate.

Jesus: Is it recorded that he ever took anything from his own possessions and tithed them to Melchizedek or anyone else?

Pastor Enoch: I guess not

Jesus: You guess not! You pastor so many people and you are only guessing? Is it or is it not written that he ever gave any of his own possessions as a tithe to anyone?

Pastor Enoch: No; it is not written anywhere that I have seen.

Jesus: Is it recorded as to what exactly Abraham did give Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: I believe it says plunder?

Jesus: So plunder could be any number of things?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, I suppose.

Judge: It could have been food, cattle, sheep, the people’s possessions or any number of things. It does not say it was all money; correct?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. You are correct; it does not say just money.

Jesus: As a matter of fact, money is never mentioned in that account at all; is that correct, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir; money is never mentioned; just goods and food and people.

Jesus: So there is no way you can say with any certainty that Abraham in fact gave Melchizedek any money at all?

Pastor Enoch: That is right.

Jesus: I only have one last question for you, Enoch. Did God command Abraham to give this plunder as tithe to Melchizedek?

Pastor Enoch: No; it appears that he did this voluntarily.

Jesus: So are you trying to tell me that because of this voluntary, one time gift by Abraham, that may not have even consisted of money, all Christians everywhere are obligated to bring 10% of their monthly salary to a local church?

Jesus: Considering all the evidence, I would say you are beyond any shadow of a doubt guilty of deliberately trying to make the scriptures says things they have not said for financial gain.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, I can see how foolish I was to try and use the story of Melchizedeck to try and get the people to tithe money. But there are many other verses that will support my belief on tithing. Jacob said he would give God 10% of everything. I think we should follow his example.

Jesus: Let’s see what Jacob said. Please read the verse you are talking about for me, Enoch.

Pastor Enoch: In Genesis chapter 28, starting at verse 20 it says, ‘Jacob vowed a vow, saying, “If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and clothing to put on, so that I come again to my father’s house in peace, and Yahweh will be my God, then this stone, which I have set up for a pillar, will be God’s house. Of all that you will give me I will surely give the tenth to you.”‘

Jesus: You said people should follow Jacobs’s example, is that right, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; that is right. He vowed to give a tenth and we should too.

Jesus: Let me point out one thing for you, Enoch. Jacob said he would Give God a tenth, ONLY if He blessed him first. So as you said previously, we should follow Jacob’s example and tell God that we will only give him a tenth if he blesses us first. Is that right?

Pastor Enoch: That is not what I meant.

Jesus: What did you mean then?

Pastor Enoch: That we should give God a tenth also.

Jesus: There you go again, trying to make the scripture say what you want it to say for your benefit. I would also like you to tell me the scriptures that say that Jacob kept his vow with God. I would also like to know where he gave the tenth to because there was no temple or levites to give it to at that time.

Pastor Enoch: I can not think of any scriptures that say where or if he ever tithed after his vow.

Jesus: It is obvious that Jacob made a voluntary and conditional vow to God. This in no way can be used as a reason to demand others to bring their income to you or any other place.

Pastor Enoch: I do have a few more scriptures that I believe will show that we are supposed to tithe.

Jesus: So far, all you have done is taken scripture and misapplied it to your beliefs and for your gain. But in order to be fair to you I will allow you to present more evidence.

Pastor Enoch: In the book of Malachi chapter 3 starting at verse 8 it says, “Will a man rob God? yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, In what have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the store-house, that there may be food in my house, and prove me now with this, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.” So you see sir, we are commanded to bring the tithes into the storehouse or God will curse us.

Jesus: Answer me this, Enoch, were you aware that I never required anyone to tithe money?

Pastor Enoch: No I didn’t know that.

Jesus: The tithe spoken of here was always edible products never money.

Pastor Enoch: Sir, that is because they didn’t have money at the time so God had them tithe food instead.

Jesus: Not true, money is first mentioned in Genesis – and Malachi was written hundreds of years later. God had them bring food in so that the levites, the fatherless and widows may eat and be satisfied. The tithe was used mainly to take care of people. Also notice it says in the verse you quoted, that there may be food in my house. How do you completely overlook the word food in those verses?

Pastor Enoch: I don’t know.

Jesus: I also want you to know that these verses speak to people under the Old Testament law. Those verses were specifically addressed to the Jewish nation. As you may or may not know, I fulfilled the law while I was on earth. The Law is no longer binding. Tithing was part of that law that has been abolished.

Non-Israelites are not subject to the law of the tithe or any other part of the Law that I gave through Moses.

Jesus: And once again, you have tried to completely take a scripture out of context and apply it to others for your benefit. Can you give me a single scripture where God changed the tithe from food to money?

Pastor Enoch: I do not know of any.

Jesus: So if God never changed it from food to money who did?

Pastor Enoch: Man must have.

Jesus: So far all you have done, Enoch, is take Old Testament scriptures out of context and try to apply it to believers under the New Covenant. Is this all the proof you have?

Pastor Enoch: I do have a New Testament scripture that will show that You told us to tithe.

Jesus: Ok; let me hear it.

Pastor Enoch: You said in Matthew 23:23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint, dill, and cumin, and have left undone the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith. But you ought to have done these, and not to have left the other undone.” Surely, You were saying there that we should be tithing.

Jesus: Let me ask you a question, who was I talking to in that passage?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says the scribes and Pharisees.

Jesus: Are you and your members scribes or Pharisees?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; God forbid!.

Jesus: I also said in that passage, “You have left undone the weightier matters of the law“. Are we under the law, Enoch?

Pastor Enoch: No.

Jesus: Why not?

Pastor Enoch: Because You fulfilled it, and it passed away.

Jesus: When did I fulfill the law?

Pastor Enoch: When You were crucified.

Jesus: So the law was still in effect until My death?

Pastor Enoch: That is correct sir.

Jesus: I think you know where I am going with this; don’t you?

Pastor Enoch: Yes; sir. Since You had not yet been crucified and the law was still binding, the Pharisees were required to tithe because it was part of the law. Once the law ended, tithing ended also.

Jesus: I want you to take a look at that verse again. Also tell me, what were they tithing?

Pastor Enoch: The scripture says it was mint, dill and cumin.

Jesus: Was money mentioned there?

Pastor Enoch: No sir; it was not.

Jesus: Once again it was edible products that they were tithing, not money. Do you have anything else you would like to say?

Pastor Enoch: If people only tithed edible products like the scripture says, then how would the church survive? We had to build that million-seater cathedral to accomodate the people who come for our annual celebration, the salaries of other pastors have to be paid. So many other things. We depend on the money from the people.

Jesus: The need does not justify the means. In other words, just because you have all these debts does not give you the right to twist and manipulate scripture and cause people to give under fear of being cursed by God to meet your needs. Not to mention that all those items you listed are problems you created for yourelves. They are not My agenda. You were pursuing your agenda.

Jesus: Now to the more grievous consequences of your enforcing the tithe on believer. What did Paul write in Galatians 5:4 about attempting to follow the Law?

Pastor Enoch: That if they obeyed any part of the old Jewish law, including the law of circumcision, in order to be right (justified) with God, they have fallen from grace, or lost their salvation.

Jesus: Do you admit that like circumcision, tithing was part of the law?

Pastor Enoch: Yes, sir.

Jesus: Now if obeying the law of circumcision would cause gentile Christians of Paul’s day to “fall from grace”, one would have to conclude that obeying another old law; “The law of tithing” would have the same results on them today; that is to say, it will cause them to fall away from the grace of God.

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I suppose so.

Jesus: In other words, you are admitting that your teaching the tithe is actually sending people down the road to hell?

Pastor Enoch: That was not what I intended, sir.

Jesus: Nevertheless, that is the result of your actions – your ministry. How many of those one billion members (not counting the non-members who heard you and believed you) do you suppose have been turned aside unknowingly this way?

Pastor Enoch: [Swallows hard] I have no idea, sir.

Pastor Enoch: I never realized all these things, I have always been taught that we had to tithe money to the local church and that is what I have always taught. Yes I am guilty. I will not teach this error anymore. Infact, I will go and take my words back. As many people as possible must hear this.

THE END
I have given the narration a good ending. I hope that someone close to Mr. Adeboye loves him enough and has enough balls to bring this issue to his attention. You will be saving not only his soul but the souls of millions of others who believe his grace-defying, grace-denying doctrine of tithing.


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Credits:
This narration was crafted and adapted from my previous article, Believers are not subject to the Tithe, and from materials put up at http://tithing.christian-things.com/articles.html

The Crown