Originakalokalo:


For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it....John 5 vs 21.

(Mark 2 )
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5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.

6 But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?

…
10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)

Cleared?

I really respect the verses you give as reference.
but i assumed we pick few verses and discuss, instead of jumping from here to there.

The fact is is the context of the verse that matters.
e.g John 10:27 Jesus christ call his believers sheep. If you dont know the context, you will not know what sheep means.

please we should not mis - quote the Bible

jesusjnr:
Now I only used an example of what man is able to do with modern technology of this day, hence you were able to see how someone could have a begotten child without sexual intercourse.

But imagine that man had not yet discovered or built his technology up to that point where he was able to achieve that, how would I have been able to make you understand the possibility of that?

The truth is that it is erroneous to judge God's ability, or what He did or did not do on the basis of what man is able to do now or how he is able to do certain things.

God was the one that created all the sexual organs, of both the woman and the man, and He was also the one that created the seed in man and also the eggs in a woman.

So if God even wants to create a new means via which He could have a begotten without having to follow all those spelt out procedure, He could also do same.

So do not limit or reduce God to man's level, procedures, what man knows or even what man is able to do, otherwise you may never be able to believe certain things about God.

For God is God, God is not man.

I respect your views and point but what did you think made begotten son thrown out of RSV? Why did renowned christians of highest eminance decided to remove it as a fabrication?

2. If God is not man, why do you believe in trinity?

Originakalokalo:


That is according to your interpretation...

Not according to the scriptures...

Jesus takes the place of God in Judgement..

" For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: "
(John 5: 22)


Jesus said that himself... He said the father has comited the judgement to the son because he is the son of man...

Jesus gives life just as the father....

Jesus forgives sins just as the father

All these are scriptural....

So, they are not one in purpose alone. ..they are one in all things..

Jesus said to Philip... If you have seen me, you have seen the father...

Jesus said that anyone who doesn't believe in him is condemned already....

Accept Jesus as your Lord and saviour.

Good post.
your quotation on John 5:22 is a true, but i have not come accross any quotation saying Jesus gives life and forgives sins, just like the father. I dont whether you added that to jesus or not.

John 5:22. what is the context of the verse?
please Read from john 5:22 to John 5:30. You will get clear picture of the verse.

John 5:30 is the context of John 5:22.

hope i have comminicated

Originakalokalo:


About Jesus being the saviour...

Look at this...

(John 4 )
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25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.

26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Christ means saviour... Look at this...

" And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world."
(John 4: 42)


Any other question?

I taught you will shade to me more light on the verse i quoted Mathew 20:20, because Jesus christ with his lips told mother of zebeede he is not a saviour.

You quoted John 4:42. This verse is confirming that jesus christ has come to fulfill the law or the prophets.

e.g Mathew 5:17. Think not that i am come to destroy the law or the prophets. I am not come to destroy but to fulfil. The law is the 10 commandements.

I am always confused between Mathew 20:20 and the people who belive jesus christ will be their saviour on day of judgement.

Originakalokalo:


Yes. The miracles done by Jesus were the will of God.

But the will of God is the will of his son Jesus...

See this...

" And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. "
(John 17: 10)

Take a look at this too..

" I and my Father are one. "
(John 10: 30)


Jesus and the father are one in will, purpose, and attribute... Why did you think The father did not deny any of his request?

Jesus said to Philip...

" Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou hen, Shew us the Father? "
(John 14: 9)

They are one....hence, their will are the same.

Nice post but;

According to your quotation of john 10:30. I and father are one. I have not come accross any verse where is says Jesus and God have the same attributes.

Jesus and God are one in purpose only.

please check the context of this verse.

jesusjnr:
Now that I've gotten what I wanted from you quite early in our exchanges, so your response to this post would determine if I continue to interact with you or not.

First of all where do you get your information that the word begotten is attributed to sex?

I, on my own part have seen two different dictionaries agree with my view that it means to father a child, which is the same thing as having a son or a child who is one's seed.

And in today's world of modern technology there are fathers who have begotten children of women some of whom they didn't even know needless I say have sex with, and this is something that man is now able to do because of the advancements in technology.

So if man who God created from dust is now able to beget and father a child, without having sexual intercourse with a woman, are you now trying to tell me that the God who created him would have not been able beget a Son without sex?

you have spoken well, but please what are the processes we undergo before we father a son/child?

i want you to remember that a son could only be Begotten when sperm and eggs meets (ovulation)



we are all learning please.

jesusjnr:
Now that I've gotten what I wanted from you quite early in our exchanges, so your response to this post would determine if I continue to interact with you or not.

First of all where do you get your information that the word begotten is attributed to sex?

I, on my own part have seen two different dictionaries agree with my view that it means to father a child, which is the same thing as having a son or a child who is one's seed.

And in today's world of modern technology there are fathers who have begotten children of women some of whom they didn't even know needless I say have sex with, and this is something that man is now able to do because of the advancements in technology.

So if man who God created from dust is now able to beget and father a child, without having sexual intercourse with a woman, are you now trying to tell me that the God who created him would have not been able beget a Son without sex?

you have spoken well, but i want you to remember that a son could only be Begotten when sperm and eggs meets (ovulation)

ovulation could occur through intercourse or seminal incimination.

But in any which way, the Begotten son will inherit some characteristics of the parents.

Soo now, do you want to tell me it is wrong to have removed the Begotten from RSV, or the Begotten is contained in the original manuscript?

we are all learning please.

jesusjnr:
Now that I've gotten what I wanted from you quite early in our exchanges, so your response to this post would determine if I continue to interact with you or not.

First of all where do you get your information that the word begotten is attributed to sex?

I, on my own part have seen two different dictionaries agree with my view that it means to father a child, which is the same thing as having a son or a child who is one's seed.

And in today's world of modern technology there are fathers who have begotten children of women some of whom they didn't even know needless I say have sex with, and this is something that man is now able to do because of the advancements in technology.

So if man who God created from dust is now able to beget and father a child, without having sexual intercourse with a woman, are you now trying to tell me that the God who created him would have not been able beget a Son without sex?

you have spoken well, but i want you to remember that a son could only be Begotten when sperm and eggs meets (ovulation)

ovulation could be occur through intercourse or seminal incimination.

But in any which way, the Begotten son will inherit some characteristics of the parents.

Soo now, do you want to tell me it is wrong to have removed the Begotten from RSV, or the Begotten is contained in the original manuscript?

we are all learning please.

Originakalokalo:



The man that was born blind was healed by Jesus ..

See what happened..

(John 9 )
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35 35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.


A son of God is God.....that's why the Jews wanted to stone Jesus...


John said...behold the lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world...

Jesus told the Pharisees.... If you don't believe in me you will die in your sins.....

He said...this is my blood in the new covenant for the remission of sins...

The blood of Jesus cleans from sin..

He is the way to the Father.... To heaven...

All these are scriptural....

We were previously discussion on the issue of jesus miracles and jesus as a saviour, but you changed to discussing the issue on jesus as a son of God.

They are different topics entirely.

All miracles performed by jesus christ were by God's will. act 2:22.

Jesus Christ never say he is the saviour. This was what were discussing.

waiting please

jesusjnr:
Maybe you can see why regardless of how archaic the KJV version is, I chose to stick with it, because even the nkjv leaves certain components in the original one that I think are unwarranted, how much more certain translations that are fashioned on the basis of what men want to hear.

So a lot vital information is lost in such translations.

The word begotten is attributed to sex. If jesus is a begotten son of God, who did God have sex with?

The word Begotten was thrown out in the RSV by 32 christians scholars of highest eminence, because it is a fabrication, not included in the original manuscripts.

This shows that the Bible does not contain 100% words of God. If differences could be found from different Bibles, the alot of questions would arise from its authenticity.

Jeremiah 8:8.

Your description on the issue of Begotten son and son of God has gone contrary to what the Bible says.

kjv John 3:16. For God soo loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, who ever beliveth in him shall not perish but have an everlasting life.

RSV John 3:16. The word BEGOTTEN was removed. why was it removed? Is Bible not believed by you to be God's word?

I dont know whether your are both right or both wrong.

waiting

Originakalokalo:


Can you show me where this is in the Bible?

Act 2:22. Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of god amongst you, by miracles, wonders and signs. which God did by him and yee yourselves know.

This shows Jesus is a man, not God.
It also clarifies all miracles he did were by God's approval and willing.

Jesus not a saviour.
Mathew 20:20 - 25. (please read story of the two sons of zabede).

waiting for your confirmations please

jesusjnr:
I'll use a human illustration to try and answer your question.

A man may have many children but just one begotten, and what differentiates the others from the begotten is the fact that, that particular child is his own seed.

So while the others may also be his children e.g. by adoption etc., but they are not his own seed.

So that's what distinguishes a son of God who is not begotten from the only begotten Son of God.

ok. What is the literal meaning of begotten?

How and where in the bible did jesus christ describe himself as God?

Jesus Did not rose Lazarus back from Death and Jesus is not the saviour. The Bible confirms that

jesusjnr:
I could recall someone saying sometime ago that the most popular verse in the Bible was John 3:16. But I can't say where he actually got that from, even though I know for sure that it was indeed one of the most popular verses of the Bible, for there were also other verses in the Bible that would give it a strong competition for that title, such as all the verses in Psalm 23 etc.

However if it was indeed true then I wouldn't be surprised at all because that verse actually represents the formula for everlasting life.

And I would explain exactly what I mean by that by first of all going scientific using the illustration of water.

Now the formula of water is H2O, therefore before any body can get water in any form or to any extent, at least 2 atoms of Hydrogen must have combined with an atom of oxygen. And this can be illustrated by the following chemical equation:

H2 + O ➞ H2O

So deducing from the chemical equation which illustrates the necessary reactants that must combine to get the end result of water, it shows that despite the 2 atoms of Hydrogen being involved and integral to the equation to get the end result, that it alone, that's without the oxygen, would never be able to yield the end product.

And that logic also applies to the atom of Oxygen that is also involved and integral to the process, that it on it's own, even without the 2 atoms of Hydrogen would never be able to produce the end result which is H2O(Water).

But it's only the combination of both, that's at least 2 atoms of Hydrogen plus the 1 atom of Oxygen that could possibly lead to water in any form or to any extent.

That established I would now leave science and return to the formula of everlasting life which is John 3:16 and it goes thus:

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Now I going to first of all divide that saying into three parts, namely, X, Y, Z, so that it would go:

"{For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son}X, {that whosoever believeth in him}Y, {shall not perish, but have everlasting life} Z.

And having done that, I can now use the respective letters to represent the part of the saying that has been assigned to it, even in a similar equation to that of water as follows:

X + Y ➞ Z

So that is the divine formula of everlasting (John 3:16) with respect to what they represent, for it's the combination of what X represents in that verse and what Y represents also in that verse, that would give the end result, even what Z represents in that same verse.

And to make it more understandable, i can now replace X with what it represents which is God's part, and Y with what it represents which is man's part, and so that Z could now be replaced by the end result of the combination of God's part(X) plus man's part(Y), which is everlasting life. Hence the equation would now go thus:

God's Part + Man's Part ➞ Everlasting Life

And being that God's part in the equation also signifies grace, while man's part in it actually mean obedience, when used to substitute God's part and man's part in the equation respectively, this is what we would get:

Grace + Obedience ➞ Everlasting Life

And so despite that grace itself which is God's part, in involved and integral to the equation, it alone cannot give the end result of everlasting life without man's part, which is the obedience.

Neither can obedience alone, which is man part, without grace even God's part, lead to everlasting life, despite being involved and integral to the process.

It is only the combination of both, that is God's part and man's part, of grace and obedience respectively, that can produce the end result of everlasting life.

Now I deliberately didn't use belief for man's part in the equation of everlasting life, because it could easily be misinterpreted to be something else, and that could literally be very destructive.

But I used obedience because by my thorough research with respect to the teachings of Jesus, i had come to the knowledge that whenever Jesus used the word "believe", He actually meant "obey".

And therefore it's was so important to get the "reactants" right in the equation by giving it the right interpretation, because otherwise it would never lead to everlasting life.

But there are those who think that "believe" in that saying of Jesus meant something else other than the obedience of His words, and hence all they rely upon is grace of God even God's own part of the equation, which alone was not able to get them the end result of everlasting life. But if they don't use the right interpretation and start obeying the Words of Jesus before the end of their lives, this is going to be their end result as illustrated by this equation:

Grace + Disobedience ➞ Destruction

And this formula which leads to the end result of destruction can also corroborated by this particular saying of Jesus:

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Therefore although those people believed in Jesus to the extent that they able to do such mighty works in His name, and believed that, that such belief was enough to give them the end result of everlasting life, but since it was not what Jesus meant by the "believe" in that saying of His, even the obedience of His Words, Jesus didn't even know them as His own and therefore told them "depart from me, ye that work iniquity".

That's going to be the same fate of all those who yet work iniquity in the church even though they may do mighty works in His name, because that means that they do not have the belief that the formula of everlasting life requires, which is the obedience of the teachings of the only begotten Son of God that God gave to the world.

For to believe in Him means to obey His Word, and it's only when that which is man's part is combined with God's part of Grace, that it would lead to the end result of eternal life.

The divine formula of everlasting life(John 3:16):

Grace + Obedience ➞ Everlasting Life

what is the difference between son of God and Begotten son of God?