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Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 8:32pm On Oct 19, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
Christ's Words were very precise, clear and direct and all it takes is for any one who TRULY wants to find out if they are a good way to live, IS SIMPLY TO TRY (TEST) THEM OUT.

Wow,
Brilliant,
The words of Jesus Christ (pbuh) are repugnant to Christians. Whenever they study the scriptures, they never bother with the doctrines of Christ because his doctrines require one to lay down his life in this world in order to save it for eternity but Christians want the material things of this world and “now now”. So, they search out all manner of phoney and misleading scriptures to fool one another with rather than pay attention to the teachings of Christ.
Unable to stand the “ruthless” doctrines of Christ, you Christians take refuge in the godless and misleading doctrines of Paul.
Have you ever wondered why Paul didn’t write anything whatsoever about any of the doctrines or parables taught by Christ?
You where talking about testing Biology testing Chemistry!!, Could you study Chemistry without discussing atomic theory or gas laws? Is it possible to study Biology without discussing the properties of living things? The very fact that Paul never taught or quoted Christ (his doctrines or parables) in all his letters should get intelligent children of God thinking.
Now, tell me if you follow all this Jesus teachings and Practice.

1. When Muslims pray, they prostrate themselves to God by placing their foreheads on the ground in total submission, in the same fashion that Jesus Christ did: Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’ (Matthew 26:39).

2. Prophets Moses, Aron, and Jesus Christ, used to wash and purify themselves before prayer just as Muslims do. (Exodus 40:31-32)

3. Muslims do not eat pork, just like Jesus Christ did not. Muslims fast for a month, and Jesus Christ fasted for over a month (Matthew 4:2).

4. Muslims are circumcised just as Jesus Christ was.

5. Jesus Christ had a beard, as many Muslims wear today.

6. Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, covered her hair as Muslim women do. The Bible states that women who do not cover their heads dishonor their heads. ‘But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven’ (1 Corinthians 11:5). The concept of women covering their hair with the Hijab encompasses more than just covering the head; it entails a modest dress code, behavior, and how one carries herself.

7. Jesus Christ did not engage in usury or interest; he did not give or take interest, as the Old Testament prohibited it: If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not treat it like a business deal; charge no interest. (Exodus 22:25). Muslims do not engage in the taking or receiving of interest, as it is a major sin in Islam. It is an immoral act that makes the rich richer at the expense of the poor. Again, Christians do not prohibit interest because they do not follow the Law of Jesus Christ but instead follow the teachings of Paul, who abolished all the laws that Jesus Christ affirmed.

Which one of these do you follow as a follower of Christ. Islam is the only religion that believes and honors Jesus Christ while respecting and following his teachings. Muslims are truly faithful followers of Jesus Christ and his teachings.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 7:53pm On Oct 19, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
If Christ's direct Word in Mathew, Mark and co, could not convince you, it is impossible for me or any other lesser follower to do so.

They couldn't convince me just because they do not agree on each others claim. One would say A, the other B, C, D. If the four synoptic gospels are contrary to each others claim regarding Jesus, then how would you want a reasonable person to accept it.

You Christians are all programmed. Kindly refer to your Bible before it misleads you.

Thanks

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 7:45pm On Oct 19, 2022

Kayberg:
My friend, stab yourself with a knife, wait till evening, cover the wound with Aloes and myrrh and come tell us the result after 3 days.

You keep making your ignorance display, lying to prove yourself right and you think any reasonable person will believe you.

You Muslims claim JESUS CHRIST wasn't the one on the cross.
You Muslims claim it was Judas Iscariot on the cross in place of JESUS CHRIST.
You Muslims still make the same claim it was JESUS CHRIST an the cross, but He didn't die on the cross, yet you admitted He was stabbed while on the cross.

How much more confused are you?
How much more will you lie to dispute the truth that JESUS CHRIST died on the cross?

Please, take your deception to somewhere else.
We already know the truth.
Go off with your lies and deception.

You've copied and pasted this earlier and I think I gave you the best reply.

Christianity Etc › Re: Jesus Didn't Die: He Wasn't Even Crucified On The Cross by Olambees: 6:53pm On Oct 15, 2022

Fathertony:
[s][/s] Thrash

It's never a thrash

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:41pm On Oct 15, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
You have not answered my question!

Is there any unique Islamic group where racism, ethnicity or politics has been conquered?

Because i never heard or seen any yet Muslims claims they are worshiping the God who asked them to greet saying
"PEACE be onto you"
Please tell me the name of that Islamic group that has successfully erased politics and racism from the hearts of the adherents of your Qu'ran.

I don't understand your view of Islamic group .... There's no group in Islam. And I think I've answered your questions in my previous highlights....

1 Like 1 Share

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:32pm On Oct 15, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
Did you not hear that anyone who judges himself, his judgement is invalid?

Lol,
I hope this doesn't contradict Jesus Christ in the gospel of John...... John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. and later on,... John 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. But that not what we are discussing now....
I never judge anyone! I only said from what I observe from being a Muslim, we Muslims are more Christians than you. And I never mistook church for Christianity because I know many christians doesn't go to church and example is the Jehovah witnesses. Even some that I can't really tell their group.

Did you not hear that anyone who judges himself, his judgement is invalid? I'm using your quote to reply this.

And this thread definitely shows how far from Christ you are even though you do not eat pork and do what Christ called "a show of righteousness"

Okay,
Now, convince me to Christianity by using a direct word from Christ...
Note: All quotes must not comes from any other source than from the four canonical (synoptic) gospel..... Do not quote Paul or any other scholars... Let's assume you know about Christ and you happen to be part of witnesses during his trials. Try convincing me to accept him from what you have heard him saying/doing.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:14pm On Oct 15, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
You have not answered my question!

Is there any unique Islamic group where racism, ethnicity or politics has been conquered?

Because i never heard or seen any yet Muslims claims they are worshiping the God who asked them to greet saying
"PEACE be onto you"
Please tell me the name of that Islamic group that has successfully erased politics and racism from the hearts of the adherents of your Qu'ran.

Please refer to my last post..

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:13pm On Oct 15, 2022

Olambees:
Let me Highlights some proof's to proclaim that Islam has no room for racism, ethnicity or social status. I will post in a different page

As I quote earlier, that whenever certain groups label all Muslims as terrorists or extremists, they look at us all as one entity. Regardless of the skin color, height or tribalism be it black, white, tall, short, they look at us as a whole.

Islam abhors racism and this is based on the following points derived from verses of the Quran:

1. The Quran’s command to uphold justice even if it is against one’s self, parents and close relatives.

“O believers! Stand firm for justice as witnesses for Allah even if it is against yourselves, your parents, or close relatives. Be they rich or poor, Allah is best to ensure their interests. So do not let your desires cause you to deviate (from justice). If you distort the testimony or refuse to give it, then (know that) Allah is certainly All-Aware of what you do.” (Surah An-Nisa, 4:135)

or in favour of one’s enemy, as per the verse

O believers! Stand firm for Allah and bear true testimony. Do not let the hatred of a people lead you to injustice. Be just! That is closer to righteousness. And be mindful of Allah. Surely Allah is All-Aware of what you do.
(Surah Al-Ma-idah, 5: cool

whereas racism calls for favouring one’s own ethnic or racial group at the expense of others.

2. The Quran prohibits looking down and insulting other ethnic groups while racism, on the other hand, condones them.
O believers! Do not let some (men) ridicule others, they may be better than them, nor let (some) women ridicule other women, they may be better than them. Do not defame one another, nor call each other by offensive nicknames. How evil it is to act rebelliously after having faith! And whoever does not repent, it is they who are the wrongdoers.”
(Surah Al-Hujurat, 49:11)

3. The Quran prohibits self-righteousness, while racism does not.

So do not (falsely) elevate yourselves. He knows best who is (truly) righteous.”
(Surah An-Najm, 53:32)

4. The Quran regards taqwa (God’s consciousness) as the basis of a person’s value.

O humanity! Indeed, We created you from a male and a female and made you into peoples and tribes so that you may (get to) know one another. Surely the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous among you. Allah is truly All-Knowing, All-Aware.”
(Surah Al-Hujurat, 49:13)
And the Prophet denied one’s superiority based on lineage and skin colour as reported in a hadith,
An Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a White has no superiority over a Black nor a Black has any superiority over a White except by piety and good action.”
(Narrated by Ahmad and Al-Baihaqi)

5. Racism promotes abhorred arrogance and supremacy which characterised Iblis when he refused to prostrate to Adam as commanded by God as in the Quran

He (Iblis) replied, “I am better than he is: You created me from fire and him from clay.”
(Surah Sad, 38:76)

When love and having pride in one’s collective identity (i.e. ethnic group, family, race) is accompanied with the above points, it is known as extreme “asabiyah” which the Prophet warned against in a hadith,

“…One who fights under the banner of a people who are blind (to the cause for which they are fighting, i.e. do not know whether their cause is just or otherwise), who gets flared up with family pride, calls (people) to fight for their family honour, and supports his kith and kin (i.e. fights not for the cause of Allah but for the sake of this family or tribe) - if he is killed (in this fight), he dies as one belonging to the days of Jahiliyyah…”

(Sahih Muslim)

In conclusion, I can say Islam gives solution to mankind's problem and I will like you to refer those questions of yours to any other religions aside Islam.
Because Islam does not obligate Muslims to have a single identity only i.e being Muslim, and abolish the others. Islam recognises the need to have psychological attachments with family, with ethnic and racial groups and regards it as a natural way of being a Muslim.

What Islam forbids is racism, where certain ethnic or religious groups condones injustices, unfair treatment, arrogance, and discrimination against other ethnic or religious groups.

Allah knows best

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 5:42pm On Oct 15, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
Can you mention any group that Islam has ensure peace in their midst?
I'm asking this question because i can't see any group that has break free from the shackles of racism and politics. Muslims will kill Muslims during ethnic conflicts that's what i'm asking you, as for your claims all other religions do lay the same so what i need is PRACTICAL BENEFITS that we can all see to know that your Allah has successfully unite his worshipers as one!

Praise be to Allah...
You've really asked a good question and I hope by Allah, you get it well. And I will be using some verses in the Quran to justify my point since you were laying much emphasis on Islam.
The Quran said personal piety and deeds were the basis for merit, not tribal affiliation. And a Quranic verse quotes, "Chapter 49, verse 13 of Islam’s sacred scripture, the Quran, declares: “O humankind!, We have created you male and female and made you nations and tribes that you may know one another. Verily, the most noble of you to Allah is the most righteous of you. Verily, Allah is knowing and aware.”

Quran 49:13.
Three points could be deduced from the above verse in relation to the topic discussed.

Firstly, having a collective identity i.e. an attachment to an ethnic group is a part of the divine plan for humankind.

Secondly, God allows diverse ethnic, tribal and community identities to exist at the same time for a positive reason – “so that you might come to know one another.” However, knowing each other should not be understood as a mere exchange of information. More accurately, it should mean to learn from and to establish cooperation that would benefit each other for the progress of humankind.

Thirdly, Islam does not prohibit Muslims from having a collective identity such as Malay or Javanese because such identities exist by God’s plan and for the benefit of humankind.

Malcolm X once famously said that “America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem.”. Let’s take a closer look as to how Islam solved racism.

The fact of the matter is, Islam has all the keys necessary to defeat racism from society and leave no room for such kinds of discrimination.

Muslims will kill Muslims during ethnic conflicts

When certain groups label all Muslims as terrorists or extremists, they look at us all as one entity. Whether we’re black, white, tall, short, they look at us as a whole. The unfortunate fact is that they do a better job at unifying us than we ever do!

When we stand together as Muslims, there are still many instances where a Yoruba and Igbo or Hausa family might be living in the same community, but they still don’t know each other’s names. And it’s not because they never happened to meet one another. They see each other everyday at the Masjid, their kids are in the same class, but they choose not to care.

And if you’re from another country, you might notice that there is racism and prejudice even from city to city. Or maybe even among different towns in a city! Antagonism has no bounds if we allow it to spread. Racism isn’t just an issue for the west, like the U.S., Canada, and the U.K.. Racism exists everywhere. If you don’t see it in your country, chances are that you might be among those perpetuating it.

Let me Highlights some proof's to proclaim that Islam has no room for racism, ethnicity or social status. I will post in a different page

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 7:47am On Oct 14, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
So what has Islam been doing in the gathering of Muslims that other religions (your book call pagans) aren't enjoying as benefits in their respective religions?

Nice Question.....
Islam is unlike any other religion because it is not merely a belief to which one adheres, but rather Islam is a complete way of life. Muslims put their beliefs into practice on a daily basis. Islam provides guidance in all the spheres and activities of life. Furthermore, it is unique in that it is not named after any person, tribe, region or culture. Islam is named after a belief in one God, Allah, and submission to His will. In other words, Muslims put Allah’s Will before their own.

Additionally, human society changes and develops with time, and so Allah has adjusted His Laws slightly over the centuries to correspond accordingly. Thus while Allah’s message of divine oneness has been the same since the beginning of time, His Sacred Law has been abrogated and amended with the advent of each new prophet. The Sacred Law of Muhammad (peace be upon him) represents the final version of Allah’s commandments applicable to all of humankind until the Last Day.
Islam invites us to what benefits us and all of humanity. It commands goodness towards all people and does not promote preferential treatment for a certain group, be they believers or not. No one is immune from Allah’s commands and laws in Islam.

Such a better religion is Islam and it is the only religion on earth that knows itself to be a religion.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 10:45pm On Oct 11, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
Are you ready to base this discussion on the highlighted?

I'm 100% sure that you will feel irritated by a sincere discussion if we're to chat without been biased.

So let's start:

I left Islam because the religion failed woefully to present a unique group practicing what their book teaches, there are so many rival groups in Islam and none as in nobody has ever spoken about a unique group practicing Islam in accord with what the book says. This is the most confusing part in all the religions i know around me back then including Islam.

Subhanallah,
Before I start, I will like you to tell me the groups of Muslim we have. But I can tell you. I follow the Quran strictly and I've never been in any group order than being a just Muslim.

In Quran we are commanded not to divide ourselves into sects. Thus dividing our religion into sects is against God's command. Those who divide into sects are termed as idol worshippers, and not members of God's religion.

[6:159] Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.

[30:31] You shall submit to Him, reverence Him, observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), and - whatever you do - do not ever fall into idol worship.
[30:32] (Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.

[42:14] Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.

We learn from above that dividing religion into sects is akin to falling into idol worship, an unforgivable sin (if maintained to death). It doesn't matter what a person calls his or her sect, it is not authorized by God. God condemns all sects.

Now before you can convince any reasonable individual that what is written in a book is inspired by God it shouldn't be just what the book says but what is yielding positive results in the midst of adherents

Yes, that's why I say you never practice Islam. Because if you ever practice Islam, you will understand it's teachings....

So can you tell me the name of any unique group practicing Islam to the letter and the positive results of Islam in their midst?

Thanks in advance!

I don't know anything about a unique group.... All I know is Islam. And I'm a Muslim. We Muslims are Submitters (Muslims in Arabic) to God alone. We follow God's words in His Final Testament to us, Quran and accept all of God's scriptures. We believe that Quran is perfect and fully detailed as God says, and that we should not follow any other sources besides it. We also believe that God alone is worthy of worship, and that we have to abandon all kinds of idols.

What sets these different sects apart is mainly their the human factors, and the upholding of various sources besides God's words. For example – traditional muslims uphold a multitude of Hadith and Sunna besides the Quran. In addition to that, some follow writings of various scholars and religious leaders, that go against God's words, without any kind of proof from God.

Again, if we stop to think about Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Muhammad, we realize they were never a member of any sect. They were simply submitters, devoted to God Alone. These sects were formed much after these prophets of God had departed, and are in direct contradiction with God's teachings mentioned above.

Thus, a person who abides by the Quran says "I am a Submitter (Muslim)", not "I am Shia", nor "I am Sunni", or anything else (2:128, 132, 133, 136; 3:52, 64, 67, 84, 102; 5:111; 41:33; 46:15, and more.) People who do so, also forget that Abraham was the original messenger of Submission (Islam), and not Muhammad. If we follow the religion of Abraham, as God commands us to do (3:95), we will call ourselves what Abraham called himself, i.e. a submitter.

Allah knows best.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 9:29pm On Oct 11, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
i have tasted Islam and i can prove beyond every reasonable doubt that there is nothing worth considering in Islam if not mere Arab's political ambitions!

Now, give me at least one major reason why you left Islam if you are truthful. And I can bet you, By Allah, you will never be reasonable. You are such a liar, you have never been a Muslim.

You can never find fault in Islam if you are a true believer.

You are saying these just because you wanted to derail people

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 9:18pm On Oct 11, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
i have tasted Islam and i can prove beyond every reasonable doubt that there is nothing worth considering in Islam if not mere Arab's political ambitions!

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 7:41pm On Oct 11, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
How can the Bible be enough for an anti-Christ?

Lol

We Muslims are more Christian than the Christians themselves If Christian means a person who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Tell me any thing Just name one thing that Jesus Christ did that you Christians are doing today. Absolutely none. How dare you now call me an Anti-Christ.

Jesus never eat pork, we Muslims don't eat it either. We Muslims obey the law as Jesus said, if you love me, you keep my commandments. We Muslims pray the way Jesus prayed. We water our hands, feet and head as Jesus Christ had instructed. Jesus kept his beard, so we Muslims.

You people are the Anti-Christ, for you abolish the law of the prophets and embrace Paul.

You are the Anti-Christ.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:37pm On Oct 11, 2022

Lawag3:
Please I want knowledge please show me which account in the bible proves that Jesus didn't died in one day just like three verses

Jesus did not die on the cross, and he was saved from the humiliation of death on the cross. But before that, remember that those that put into account all these events where never eye witnesses. It is from hearsay.
Let's take for instance the book of Luke.... Luke 1:1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 1:2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 1:3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,

And with confirmation from the Bible about the event because we don't know which of the story about the crucifixion is true......
The Bible says:

“he that is hanged is accursed of God”. (Deuteronomy 21:23)

Almighty God did work to save his beloved prophet from an accursed death on the cross. Jesus fervently prayed that the cup of death on the cross be removed. He said:

“O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me”. (Matthew 26:39

The Bible further informs us that these supplications were heard and accepted:

“Who in the days of flesh when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he suffered”. (Hebrews 5:7)

Jesus had predicted to give the sign of Jonas:

“But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:

“For as Jonas was three days and three nights in a whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth”. (Matthew 12:39-40)

For the sign to be similar to that of Jonas, Jesus must have been alive in the sepulchre after the incident of crucifixion.

Jesus was alive when he was being taken off from the cross. A soldier pierced his side with a spear and blood and water came out which normally indicates life. The Bible says:

“But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side and forthwith came there blood and water”. (John 19:34)

Jesus met his disciples after crucifixion and assured them of his life.

“And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them then came Jesus, the doors being shut and stood in the midst, and said, ‘Peace be unto you’. Then saith he to Thomas. “Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands, and reach hither thy hand and thrust into my side and be not faithless, but believing”. (John 20:26, 27)

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 6:15pm On Oct 11, 2022

Kayberg:
And you just kept displaying your ignorance, instead of sitting down and listening to learn.

Lol, you are the one playing ignorance. Keep quiet and learn

First, contrary to what you claimed that JESUS CHRIST was taken down immediately after the piercing ; this is what the Bible said:

“When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:”
— Matthew 27:57 (KJV)

Even there means Evening, meaning they waited for 'hours' before the evening came. And evening is a time between dusk and night. when it gets dark.

Read the other synoptic gospels and understand that the bible could mislead you through it contradictions

Secondly, you said Aloes and Myrrhs were used to treat him, why was His case different?

But here is what the Bible said:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³⁸ And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
³⁹ And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
⁴⁰ Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

•Showing that is how the Jews bury their dead.

From the sources seen so far, the idea of embalming using Aloe has only surfaced in the Egyptian world. It is thought that pharaohs were buried along with Aloes. Was Jesus being embalmed?

To answer this question, an examination of Jewish burial customs is needed. Jewish customs have clearly been restricted to washing the body and wrapping it in a clean cloth -- there was no embalming. For a body to be embalmed, incisions needed to be made and the internal organs and entrails completely removed. It was understood by the people of the time, and for Jews, that to make such incisions would not be acceptable. Evidence to illustrate this aversion to any incisions can be seen from the passing away of Judah, one of the ancestors of modern-day Jews, He is recorded as having stated:

“‘I die this day at the age of one hundred and nineteen years before your eyes. None shall bury me in a costly garment, nor shall ye cut my body to embalm it, but ye shall carry me to Hebron.’ Having spoken these words, Judah sank into death.” ⁶

It seems unlikely that the Aloes present were for embalming. Having Myrrh there also in large quantities was not consistent with this hypothesis. It appears far more likely that the excellent healing properties of these herbs were being utilized in an attempt to heal Jesus’ wounds and allow him to recover from his ordeal.

•And also, do you think Nicodemus would have come at a time when people and even his colleagues would have seen him? Meaning Nicodemus came with the spices when it was dark enough to conceal his movements and participation in the burial, not treatment of JESUS CHRIST.

I will ask again, do the Jews use Aloe and myrrh in the process of their dead??

•If they were trying to treat JESUS CHRIST back then, would they have kept Him in a sepulchre, and not in the house?

They kept it in a sepulchre because the Sabbath day is at hand. They can not bury their dead bodies till the day after Sabbath...... Don't you come to think of the reason why nobody return to the sepulchre until after the Sabbath.... Or do you ever think of the reason why the others bone where broken to hasten their death so that the Sabbath day won't come nigh.

Mr Islamist, you need to learn before arguing.
Arguing ignorantly makes you an ignorant liar and displays confusionism when you dispute the truth.

Mr/Mrs/Ms Ignoramus, learn how to make research before jumping into conclusion. I can't blame you since you are being programmed by a book full of inconsistencies, fallacy and fabrications. Learn to think outside the box. You have been provided with this your brain to think.

[/quote][b]And I remember, are you not the same Muslims who claimed JESUS CHRIST was never crucified? How come you're now trying to say He was crucified, but didn't die?

If that's a question?, I'm not. But regardless of this, I can give you an answer with Muslim points of view.
There is nothing strange about the Muslims rejecting this idea, because the Qur’aan in which they believe and accept what it tells them definitively states that that did not happen, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And because of their saying (in boast), ‘We killed Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), the Messenger of Allaah,’ — but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but it appeared so to them the resemblance of ‘Eesa (Jesus) was put over another man (and they killed that man)], and those who differ therein are full of doubts. They have no (certain) knowledge, they follow nothing but conjecture. For surely; they killed him not [i.e. ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)]”

[al-Nisa’ 4:157]

Rather the problem rests with you Christians for the doctrine of the crucifixion and redemption has become a central issue, so much so that the cross is the symbol of your religion.

Honestly, you guys lie too much, all just to confuse people from knowing the truth. And yet, the more you lie, the more it gets exposed, and shamelessly, you switch to another lies![/b]

See, you can only mislead those who are dunce and do not know about the things you're twisting up, not I, Kayberg.

Know one is misleading you. For me to accept your religion or the fact that you claim Jesus Christ dead or crucified. I will have you to provide your proof. And if you should bring your proof from the Bible? What is left for me is to access the bible and follow it strictly.

I can't imagine you people trying to link up different stories yet pointing into same event as a proof of Jesus death or crucifixion.

You people should start learning and stop being ignorant.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 5:25pm On Oct 11, 2022

Kayberg:
5. The decreased oxygen also damages the heart itself (myocardial infarction) which leads to cardiac arrest. In severe cases of cardiac stress, the heart can even burst, a process known as cardiac rupture.

6. Jesus most likely died of a heart attack.
After Jesus’ death, the soldiers break the legs of the two criminals crucified alongside Him ( John 19:32 ), causing suffocation. Death would then occur quicker. When they came to Jesus, He was already dead so they did not break His legs ( John 19:33 ). Instead, the soldiers pierced His side ( John 19:34 ) to assure that He was dead. In doing this, it is reported that “blood and water came out” (John 19:34), referring to the watery fluid surrounding the heart and lungs.

A popular but medically unacceptable explanation has been that Jesus Christ died of cardiac rupture. It is mentioned that in the setting of scourging and crucifixion, an altered coagulable state may have resulted in thrombotic vegetation over the aortic and mitral valves which could have embolised in the coronary circulation resulting in myocardial infarction, rupture and death, meaning that blood becomes more prone to clotting, leading to a congealed mass of blood on the structures on the left side of the heart. These congealed masses may have broken off from the heart and gotten to the blood supply of the heart, resulting in the condition. This is a very naïve explanation that is hardly, if ever, seen in medical practice. The altered coagulable state (when blood congeals inside the body, rather than readily flowing) is uncommon with scourging or crucifixion. When it does develop, it takes many hours, and presents primarily as bleeding from the wound. The patient usually dies of blood loss over the next few days. These detached broken off clots mainly block the small arteries such as kidneys. The small arteries of the heart are seldom involved but if the small arteries are ever involved, myocardial infarction is extremely unlikely as the main coronary arteries are spared. If ever a heart attack does occur, rupture of the infracted segment (deadened part of the heart), usually takes five to seven days. Thus, the explanation does not find cardiological acceptance.

Another explanation put forward is the state of exhaustion on account of scourging, blood loss and pre-shock state. The fact that Jesus Christ did not carry his crossbar is given in support of this interpretation. However, one should not forget the compassionate attitude of Pilate who never wanted Jesus to be crucified in the first place. In the case of Jesus Christ, scourging was mild and no mention is given in the four Gospel account. The above explanation thus, is untenable. It has been postulated that perhaps Jesus Christ died of acute heart failure with terminal fatal cardiac arrhythmia, i.e. serious problems with the rhythm of the heart. This explanation in a man like Jesus Christ without previous history of any medical ailment makes the above diagnosis unlikely.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 5:19pm On Oct 11, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
When a person who is alive is stabbed is not a shout in cry he must release? Common razor blade tear we shout, how much more a stabbing.

He is definitely not well at all.

So you are expecting a shout from someone that is considered weak and unconscious. And the Bible said he was pierced by the side.....

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 4:07pm On Oct 11, 2022

Kayberg:
Matthew 26:36-46, Mark 14:37-42, Luke 22:39-44
After the Passover celebration, Jesus takes His disciples to Gethsemene to pray. During His anxious prayer about the events to come, Jesus sweats drops of blood. There is a rare medical condition called hematohidrosis, during which the capillary blood vessels that feed the sweat glands break down. Blood released from the vessels mixes with the sweat; therefore, the body sweats drops of blood. This condition results from mental anguish or high anxiety, a state Jesus expresses by praying “my soul is deeply grieved to the point of death” ( Matthew 26:38 ). Hematohidrosis makes the skin tender, so Jesus’ physical condition worsens slightly.

Matthew 26:67-75, Mark 14:61-72, Luke 22:54-23:25, John 18:16-27
Traveling from Pilate to Herod and back again, Jesus walks approximately two and a half miles. He has not slept, and He has been mocked and beaten ( Luke 22:63-65 ). In addition, His skin remains tender from the hematohidrosis. His physical condition worsens.

Jesus Christ has been described by some to have suffered from an extremely rare medical disorder of bloody sweat (heamatidrosis). This may have occurred in highly emotional state in which he was in and could have resulted in hypervolemia (loss of blood volume) contributing to his death. It is rather odd to think of such rare disorder in a healthy man with a loss of a substantial volume of blood in sweat on a cold night of early April. Also it is very unlikely that a noble Prophet of God would have succumbed under emotional stress.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 3:57pm On Oct 11, 2022

tctrills:
The bible clearly declared that Jesus died on the cross. Is that not enough for you?

Perhaps the Bible is false or inaccurate.......

Because, It is strange that the Four canonical gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this possible fabrication.

There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.

Take note and I hope this explains all. And please provide me a proof if these contradictions are consistent.

1. They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?

2. Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?

3. They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?

4. Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?

5. At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?

6. What happened after the so-called crucifixion?

Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”

But John does not know anything about all that!

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”

[al-Nisa’ 4:82]

Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”

Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.

Let us complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:

On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:

“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”

John 7:33-34 – NIV

Elsewhere he says:

“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’

This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’

But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’

‘Who are you?’ they asked.

‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.

So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”

John 8:21-29 – NIV

Then at the end he tells them again:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LordMatthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35

The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.

“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

John 16:32-33

Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):

“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads

and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’

In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”

Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV

But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):

“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’

He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.

Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’

Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.

…

He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’

When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …

So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”

Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV

Luke describes the scene and says:

“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”

Luke 22:44-46 – NIV

Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:

“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV

See also Mark 15:34

If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.

And Allah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.

The Almighty knows best.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 3:40pm On Oct 11, 2022

Kayberg:
The Science of the Crucifixion

by Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. | adapted by Tally (French ’00) Flint
Each year, Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. , associate professor in the
Department of Biology and Chemistry
' presents a special lecture on the science of Christ’s crucifixion. She details the physiological processes a typical crucified victim underwent and teaches her students to see Christ’s death on the cross with new understanding.

The exact events in this scenario may not have happened in Jesus’ specific case, but the account is based on historical documentation of crucifixion procedures used during that time period. Please be aware that the following is of a realistic and graphic nature.

*Jesus Christ did not Die on the Cross – A Cardiologist’s Perspective*

In recent years, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ has stimulated considerable interest. The inspiration received from the masterpiece of the Promised Messiah, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Jesus in India, stimulated this author to conduct an interdisciplinary investigation on the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion and to present a historical-cum-medical accurate account as to why Jesus Christ went into a state of swoon and the circumstances that led to his recovery, and to explore the differential diagnosis of other clinical conditions put forward by doctors. There is a range of evidence on the process of crucifixion in literature. However, the credibility of any discussion will be determined primarily by the credibility of the source material. For this ‘theory’, the source material includes the extensive and detailed descriptions of the process of flogging and crucifixion found in the New Testament Gospels, and contemporary Christian and non-Christian authors. The interpretations of modern writers, based on the knowledge of science and medicine, may offer additional insight into this.

Jesus Christ was arrested past midnight at Gethsemane and taken to the high priest where he was found guilty of blasphemy. Soon after daybreak he was blindfolded, spat on the face and struck on the face with fists. There is no mention of any blood loss nor does blood loss of any significance occur with such an assault. Further, it is reasonable to assume that Jesus Christ was in good physical condition.
*Surviving Crucifixion*

Survival length on the cross generally averaged three days (with a range of two to five days). Jesus Christ did not carry the crossbar from the flogging post to the site of crucifixion (as was customary for condemned men), one third of a mile (600 to 650 m) away. At Golgotha, the crucifixion site, after twelve noon that Friday, Jesus Christ cried out in a loud voice, bowed his head, and swooned. He remained on the cross for only about two hours until the sixth hour on Friday, just before sunset, because the next day was the Sabbath and according to Jewish custom it was unlawful to keep anyone on the cross on the Sabbath, or the night previous. The soldiers broke the leg of the two thieves, but not that of Jesus Christ, as they mistook his being in a state of swoon for being dead. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his chest, with an infantry spear, most probably into the pericardial cavity, producing a sudden flow of blood and water. After the dust storm and violent earthquake, many people had dispersed. Christ having been taken for dead, his body was handed over to Joseph of Arimathea. Nicodemus, a very learned physician who knew the secrets of ‘Therapents’ – a term for therapeutics, saw the wound with blood and water flowing, which is not seen in the dead, and spoke in a low tone: ‘Dear friends, be of good cheer, and let us to work. Jesus is not dead. He seems so only because his strength is gone. Having carefully laid the body of Jesus Christ on the ground, Nicodemus spread strong spices and healing salves, making out that he was doing so to keep the body from decaying. These spices and salves had great healing power and were used at that time. Both Joseph and Nicodemus ‘blew into him their own breath’ as if providing mouth-to-mouth artificial respiration. Nicodemus also ‘believed that it was not best to close up the wound in Jesus’ side, because he considered the flow of blood and water was helpful to respiration and beneficial in the renewing of life’. This is a well-known practice in patients with cardiac tamponade (bleeding within the pericardial cavity) where after aspiration with a wide bore needle the blood is allowed to drain to avoid recollection. At the suggestion of Pilate, Jesus Christ was then placed in a nearby inconspicuous house, built like a tomb.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 11:04pm On Oct 10, 2022

Lawag3:
Their legs were broken to quicken their death .
When they saw that Jesus was already dead so they pierced to make sure he was dead .

Please make more research, ask any cardiologist you know.....
crurifracture is the act of breaking someone’s legs so as to ease their pain by speeding along their death in crucifixion. Jesus Christ, he was in good health and in excellent mental state. He remained on the cross for a significantly short time with less exhaustion, dehydration and asphyxia. The blood loss was minimal both during scourging and crucifixion making the possibility of shock due to the loss of a large volume of blood unlikely. No bones were broken in order to hasten death. The injury to the chest with a spear can result in pleural effusion but the blood congeals in a dead man with poor flow with blood clots and pleural fluid. It is most probable that the infantry spear came to the rescue of Jesus Christ when it pierced the pericardial cavity and revived the encaged heart as ‘blood and water gushed out’ (see image below). It is only in a beating heart of a living person that blood gushes out. Skepticism has arisen in explaining with medical accuracy, the flow of both blood and water.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 11:02pm On Oct 10, 2022

Lawag3:
In the Roman crucifixion it's the legs that keeps the victim alive the way they were nailed makes it impossible to breathe well so the victims had to push their legs up and down scraping their peeled backs against the wooden cross. Even when they pierced his side blood and serum which the bible describes as water came out which is only possible on a body that is dead.

You really don't know anything about the Bible. You talk without reason. You lack knowledge.
Beg the Almighty to give you knowledge that will benefit you. And stop blarbing

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 10:32pm On Oct 10, 2022*

Dtruthspeaker:
When a person is stabbed is it only water and blood that escapes?

Please do findings, before commenting.....I can see you only knows how to read without applying wisdom. A dead man was pierced and blood and water gushes out, how possible... Now you added air even the bible didn't

Go and see the last time He ate before His ordeal started. Even people who go to work or school or stay at home after eating breakfast are already weak by 4:00pm.

As I said earlier, he fasted 40days and night, so, what's wrong with him even if he haven't eating for 30days before the trial.

Then you add the trouble of being taken to police station where He was beaten before they took Him to the judges, before He was SCOURGED NOT FLOGGED, FROM ROMAN SOLDIERS (so Deuteronomy does not apply) NOT CIVILIANS, AND NOT EVEN ONE SOLDIER

You really lack knowledge in Christianity. Please, Check your dictionary for meaning of scourge...

You really are insane if you think a hungry man can survive all these before He even started to carry a cross that is probably as heavy as a bag of rice over a long distance.

An hungry man, that says man shouldn't live by bread alone. I think a God or son of God shouldn't be dependent on food before he survives. And moreover, what kind of God will allow his accused son to be killed naked right in his presence even when he have the power to save him

You are insane if you think you anyone can survive that!

Lol, I'm insane, put your Bible aside and study well.... Think and reason, use your God given intellect

Off point! Now you are leaving the issue running all over to make unreasonable connections. People who starve do not have arrests and detention and trial and beatings added to their starvation.

Another Change of Post! "He fell down" means He carried it!

Lol, another contradiction..... Someone else helped him to carry it. That's why your Bible mislead you.

Therefore, you are still the who has come to display insanity here.

Since you reject Christ den go your house na. Na only mad pesin na im dey make noise about Pesin e no want.

Lol, I love Jesus pbuh more than you do, I'm more christian than you if Christianity means those that follows the teachings of Jesus.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 10:25am On Oct 09, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
Go to crime section and YouTube to see all those dead people, still bleeding even after they have died. The children in the school were still bleeding when the police came.

Go and see how don jazzy buried his mom, make up and perfume was there. That means he was treating her as per your sense, eh?

You are just grabbing at straws now that we appreciate that God has rejected your Ishmael lineage, so you are seeking even any insane thing to attack The Lord Jesus Christ, EXACTLY AS PROPHECIED!

Hence your desperate insane attempt.

Make up and perfumes seems medicinal to you, he would have covered her with lip gloss as well..... Look at you.

Does the Jews covered their dead bodies with aloe and myrrh?? Why is Jesus case different??

Think before you open that big thing of yours

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Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 10:10am On Oct 09, 2022

Dtruthspeaker:
See Madness!

One group of people who know when a person is dead is soldiers.

And the soldiers still did exactly what they do to check whether a person is dead, by puncturing the body to release air.

Who can even survive that 24 hours of torture for the last food he ate was more than 24 hours back before give and take, 3 hours past before he was arrested.

Then plus minus 2 hours passed before he was take to the Pharisee Court.

Then trial, let say 1 hour. Before his first conviction.

Before he was transferred to governors court, ....

Even before He got the cross He was already dying which is why He fell down and could not even carry His cross.

So, you are talking absolute insanity and refined rubbish!

By releasing air??
You actually don't read your Bible....when the bible stated blood and water gushes out.

You said 24 hours of toture??
Many people survived it not to talk of a 33yrs old Jesus.... And it's not even upto 12hours in the case of Jesus. And they can't whip him more than 39 times according to the Jewish law..(Deuteronomy 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.)..even Paul confirms it...(2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.)

You even said for with the little food he ate.... Remember he fasted for Forty good days and night. Besides what kind of God or son of God depends on food for survival.

You said he fell down unable to carry his own cross??
Is that not contradicting John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Therefore you are the one talking out of knowledge... I won't use insanity as you have done

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Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 9:37am On Oct 09, 2022

Kayberg:
Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

You actually don't know the process of crucifixion before asking me this question, because if you had known you wouldn't have asked.

No man has ever died on the same day of crucifixion.... The purpose of the crucifixion is for the person die a slow death. And crucifixion sometimes takes up to 9 days before the person died. According to some research, some people survived crucifixion after 11 days.

Consider why the other two prisoners bone were broken and left his own unbroken.
Remember the Pilates doesn't want him killed by his soldiers because his wife had a dream and he rather obey the Jews by crucifying him instead. He was even surprised he died too quickly when they informed him.... Mark 15:44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 9:02am On Oct 09, 2022

youngdave78:
may God forgive you.

Amen
May the Almighty forgives us all

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 8:52am On Oct 09, 2022

Kayberg:
Stab yourself in the side with a knife, wait till evening, apply Aloe Vera and tell us the result after 3 Days.

Can't you see your explanations up there makes you sound unreasonable?

JESUS CHRIST, while in the garden praying, said:

“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
— Matthew 26:39 (KJV)

You talking about minor injuries:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
² And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

Lol

Christianity Etc › Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 8:52am On Oct 09, 2022

Kayberg:
Stab yourself in the side with a knife, wait till evening, apply Aloe Vera and tell us the result after 3 Days.

Can't you see your explanations up there makes you sound unreasonable?

JESUS CHRIST, while in the garden praying, said:

“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
— Matthew 26:39 (KJV)

You talking about minor injuries:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
² And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

You are mistaking, please refer to your Bible. Jesus was taken down from the cross immediately after piercing him with the sword thinking he was dead
As a reasonable person, ask your self or make research, can a dead man be pierced with so much blood gushing out.

Why would they cover him with so much medicinal herbs like aloe and myrrh oil in 100 pounds. I can tell you it's because they see a sign of life in him.

Why would you even think the Jews will have him killed? It's not possible. Reason.

Even the four canonical gospel contradicts each other on the account of Jesus death, showing these are all words of conjectures... Mere assumptions.

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Christianity Etc › Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees(op): 8:05am On Oct 09, 2022

Ok, let me first of all present five proof from the Bible.,...

1. Do you know that before the accused crucifixion of Christ, Jesus went to a place called Gethsemane....After Jesus discovered the plan of the Jewish priests to have him crucified on the cross like a criminal, he immediately went off to a private location to pray. He chose the Garden of Gethsemane and prayed to God to foil the plans of the enemies (Matthew 26:36-46). He was greatly “distressed and troubled”; he sought solitude, and prayed for hours, falling on his face as one would do in Islam (prostration). He prayed that God removes this “cup” from him (Matthew 20:22), i.e. remove that part of his destiny of which God was in control. Jesus wasn’t concerned over his own life, but feared the plan of the Jewish priests; the public execution. If such a plan went ahead, it would have brought the Divine mission of Jesus to an end – his disciples and all those who believed him to be the Messiah would abandon such belief, and it would have meant that Jesus died an “accursed death”. (Deuteronomy 21:22).....Does the above sound like a man whose sole purpose of coming to the earth was to die on the cross? In fact, the Promised Messiah goes on to explain the incompatibility of the above event and the Christian doctrine of atonement. I will explain further in my concluding part that his prayer at Gethsemane was answered because if Jesus Christ would have cried bitterly and pray for something and God didn't answered him, then who are we to pray to God for help thinking it will be accepted....

2. Jesus was arrested, tried and then condemned to die on the cross. He was taken to Golgotha where he was then offered wine to dull the pain (Mark 15:22-27), but he refused since he still held hope that his prayers would be answered and that he would not die on the cross; an accursed death. As the hours dragged on, Jesus felt himself slipping into unconsciousness, fearing that God may have abandoned him, he cries out: “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabach-thani?” meaning, “My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34) he knew God would heed the call and prayer of His Prophet and Messiah, yet he could feel his strength wavering and perhaps saw no other opportunity of surviving the ordeal, he cried out to God, “Why have You forsaken me?”

3. On the Sabbath, which would begin at dusk on Friday (i.e. Preparation day) was approaching, and therefore the criminals on the cross had to be taken down and killed immediately according to Jewish law. The two thieves on either side of Jesus were executed, but the soldiers saw that Jesus was unconscious and thought him already dead, but to ensure that he was not faking it, they pierced his side with a spear, resulting in a sudden flow of blood and water (John 19:31-34), a sure sign that his heart was still pumping and that he was alive. The eyewitness was doubtless surprised to see so much blood pouring out from a supposedly dead body through a minor scratch wound, and aptly expressed his surprise.

4. Since the Roman soldiers saw no movement and thought him dead, they reported it to their superiors, and so Jesus was given over to his disciples, namely Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus, who then applied 100 pounds of myrrh and aloe on his body (John 19:38-42). The two herbs are significant and very important as they show further proof that the disciples knew that Jesusas was still alive, since both herbs have healing properties and were used as medicine in the ancient world.

For you to know Aloe Vera is very powerful healing herbs, you can Google search it.... Aloe is a genus containing about 500 species, the most common one being Aloe Vera and grows in Africa and the Middle East. It is very valuable, so much so that the great thinker “Aristotle, being aware that the healing properties of Aloe would be invaluable to soldiers wounded in battle, advised his student Alexander III (‘the Great’) to conquer all lands that grew it, especially the island of Socotra off the coast of Eastern Africa […] Pedanius Dioscorides, a physician in the Roman army, mentioned medicinal Aloes in his encyclopaedic Greek herbal De Materia Medica (Approximately around 75 BC)”

This was certainly not the Jewish burial practise; simple oils were applied to the body for cleaning purposes, but not expensive medicines. This was for the purpose of healing Jesus’ wounds and stop the bleeding. And so the two disciples who took away Jesus’ body knew that he was still alive and had planned his rescue, they brought along with them huge amounts of herbs and medicines to wrap Jesus’ body, and to stop the excessive bleeding. and I can tell you, a dead body can never bleed

5. Finally, after recovering somewhat from his wounds and being able to walk, Jesus appears to his disciples. Some of them weren’t in on the plan and did not know he survived, they thought him to be a ghost! (Luke 24:39). But Jesus quickly removed their doubt and showed him his wounds and told them that it was him in the “flesh”. He was hungry as well and asked for some food and then ate in front of them.
What could this mean? Is this Jesusas raised from the dead? With the same wounds and hungry? Doesn’t the above sound like the same Jesusas who taught his disciples? He is naturally comforting them.

Remember I said Jesus was saved,.... Read through the book of Hebrews (Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

From this verse one can say the prayer was answered.

Jesus never died....... If you want another proof aside these, I'm here to give you more than 20 proof he did not die and he was alive.

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Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity: A Confused Religion by Olambees(op): 11:01pm On Jun 26, 2022

MaxInDHouse:
An apostle CHOSEN by Jesus Christ to help many come to an accurate knowledge of truth! Act 9:15
You can't know a single thing through that guy from Saudi Arabia, he has nothing to do with the God of Israel because the God of Israel have told Abraham that the descendants of Ishmael has no share in what He's promising Abraham regarding the salvation of mankind {Genesis 17:18-21} only the Israelites have the promise of dispensing salvation to other nations! Zechariah 8:23

So if you want to know the importance of Apostle Paul all you need to do is ask from those who believe the Bible not those who wants to use the Bible to promote their pagan traditions and then condemn the Bible afterwards!

Remember Jesus pbuh talking to the Israelites in Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

And also remember when God promises Ishmael...... In Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

I will only quote you some bible verse rather than putting meanings to word's.

#SoThatWeMayBeOne

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