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Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 - Religion - Nairaland

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Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 8:05am On Oct 09, 2022
Ok, let me first of all present five proof from the Bible.,...

1. Do you know that before the accused crucifixion of Christ, Jesus went to a place called Gethsemane....After Jesus discovered the plan of the Jewish priests to have him crucified on the cross like a criminal, he immediately went off to a private location to pray. He chose the Garden of Gethsemane and prayed to God to foil the plans of the enemies (Matthew 26:36-46). He was greatly “distressed and troubled”; he sought solitude, and prayed for hours, falling on his face as one would do in Islam (prostration). He prayed that God removes this “cup” from him (Matthew 20:22), i.e. remove that part of his destiny of which God was in control. Jesus wasn’t concerned over his own life, but feared the plan of the Jewish priests; the public execution. If such a plan went ahead, it would have brought the Divine mission of Jesus to an end – his disciples and all those who believed him to be the Messiah would abandon such belief, and it would have meant that Jesus died an “accursed death”. (Deuteronomy 21:22).....Does the above sound like a man whose sole purpose of coming to the earth was to die on the cross? In fact, the Promised Messiah goes on to explain the incompatibility of the above event and the Christian doctrine of atonement. I will explain further in my concluding part that his prayer at Gethsemane was answered because if Jesus Christ would have cried bitterly and pray for something and God didn't answered him, then who are we to pray to God for help thinking it will be accepted....

2. Jesus was arrested, tried and then condemned to die on the cross. He was taken to Golgotha where he was then offered wine to dull the pain (Mark 15:22-27), but he refused since he still held hope that his prayers would be answered and that he would not die on the cross; an accursed death. As the hours dragged on, Jesus felt himself slipping into unconsciousness, fearing that God may have abandoned him, he cries out: “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabach-thani?” meaning, “My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34) he knew God would heed the call and prayer of His Prophet and Messiah, yet he could feel his strength wavering and perhaps saw no other opportunity of surviving the ordeal, he cried out to God, “Why have You forsaken me?”

3. On the Sabbath, which would begin at dusk on Friday (i.e. Preparation day) was approaching, and therefore the criminals on the cross had to be taken down and killed immediately according to Jewish law. The two thieves on either side of Jesus were executed, but the soldiers saw that Jesus was unconscious and thought him already dead, but to ensure that he was not faking it, they pierced his side with a spear, resulting in a sudden flow of blood and water (John 19:31-34), a sure sign that his heart was still pumping and that he was alive. The eyewitness was doubtless surprised to see so much blood pouring out from a supposedly dead body through a minor scratch wound, and aptly expressed his surprise.

4. Since the Roman soldiers saw no movement and thought him dead, they reported it to their superiors, and so Jesus was given over to his disciples, namely Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus, who then applied 100 pounds of myrrh and aloe on his body (John 19:38-42). The two herbs are significant and very important as they show further proof that the disciples knew that Jesusas was still alive, since both herbs have healing properties and were used as medicine in the ancient world.

For you to know Aloe Vera is very powerful healing herbs, you can Google search it.... Aloe is a genus containing about 500 species, the most common one being Aloe Vera and grows in Africa and the Middle East. It is very valuable, so much so that the great thinker “Aristotle, being aware that the healing properties of Aloe would be invaluable to soldiers wounded in battle, advised his student Alexander III (‘the Great’) to conquer all lands that grew it, especially the island of Socotra off the coast of Eastern Africa […] Pedanius Dioscorides, a physician in the Roman army, mentioned medicinal Aloes in his encyclopaedic Greek herbal De Materia Medica (Approximately around 75 BC)”

This was certainly not the Jewish burial practise; simple oils were applied to the body for cleaning purposes, but not expensive medicines. This was for the purpose of healing Jesus’ wounds and stop the bleeding. And so the two disciples who took away Jesus’ body knew that he was still alive and had planned his rescue, they brought along with them huge amounts of herbs and medicines to wrap Jesus’ body, and to stop the excessive bleeding. and I can tell you, a dead body can never bleed

5. Finally, after recovering somewhat from his wounds and being able to walk, Jesus appears to his disciples. Some of them weren’t in on the plan and did not know he survived, they thought him to be a ghost! (Luke 24:39). But Jesus quickly removed their doubt and showed him his wounds and told them that it was him in the “flesh”. He was hungry as well and asked for some food and then ate in front of them.
What could this mean? Is this Jesusas raised from the dead? With the same wounds and hungry? Doesn’t the above sound like the same Jesusas who taught his disciples? He is naturally comforting them.

Remember I said Jesus was saved,.... Read through the book of Hebrews (Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

From this verse one can say the prayer was answered.

Jesus never died....... If you want another proof aside these, I'm here to give you more than 20 proof he did not die and he was alive.

1 Like 2 Shares

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Kayberg: 8:18am On Oct 09, 2022
Stab yourself in the side with a knife, wait till evening, apply Aloe Vera and tell us the result after 3 Days.

Can't you see your explanations up there makes you sound unreasonable?

JESUS CHRIST, while in the garden praying, said:

“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
— Matthew 26:39 (KJV)

You talking about minor injuries:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
² And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

4 Likes

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by youngdave78(m): 8:27am On Oct 09, 2022
Olambees:
Ok, let me first of all present five proof from the Bible.,...

1. Do you know that before the accused crucifixion of Christ, Jesus went to a place called Gethsemane....After Jesus discovered the plan of the Jewish priests to have him crucified on the cross like a criminal, he immediately went off to a private location to pray. He chose the Garden of Gethsemane and prayed to God to foil the plans of the enemies (Matthew 26:36-46). He was greatly “distressed and troubled”; he sought solitude, and prayed for hours, falling on his face as one would do in Islam (prostration). He prayed that God removes this “cup” from him (Matthew 20:22), i.e. remove that part of his destiny of which God was in control. Jesus wasn’t concerned over his own life, but feared the plan of the Jewish priests; the public execution. If such a plan went ahead, it would have brought the Divine mission of Jesus to an end – his disciples and all those who believed him to be the Messiah would abandon such belief, and it would have meant that Jesus died an “accursed death”. (Deuteronomy 21:22).....Does the above sound like a man whose sole purpose of coming to the earth was to die on the cross? In fact, the Promised Messiah goes on to explain the incompatibility of the above event and the Christian doctrine of atonement. I will explain further in my concluding part that his prayer at Gethsemane was answered because if Jesus Christ would have cried bitterly and pray for something and God didn't answered him, then who are we to pray to God for help thinking it will be accepted....

2. Jesus was arrested, tried and then condemned to die on the cross. He was taken to Golgotha where he was then offered wine to dull the pain (Mark 15:22-27), but he refused since he still held hope that his prayers would be answered and that he would not die on the cross; an accursed death. As the hours dragged on, Jesus felt himself slipping into unconsciousness, fearing that God may have abandoned him, he cries out: “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabach-thani?” meaning, “My God, my God, why hast Thou forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34) he knew God would heed the call and prayer of His Prophet and Messiah, yet he could feel his strength wavering and perhaps saw no other opportunity of surviving the ordeal, he cried out to God, “Why have You forsaken me?”

3. On the Sabbath, which would begin at dusk on Friday (i.e. Preparation day) was approaching, and therefore the criminals on the cross had to be taken down and killed immediately according to Jewish law. The two thieves on either side of Jesus were executed, but the soldiers saw that Jesus was unconscious and thought him already dead, but to ensure that he was not faking it, they pierced his side with a spear, resulting in a sudden flow of blood and water (John 19:31-34), a sure sign that his heart was still pumping and that he was alive. The eyewitness was doubtless surprised to see so much blood pouring out from a supposedly dead body through a minor scratch wound, and aptly expressed his surprise.

4. Since the Roman soldiers saw no movement and thought him dead, they reported it to their superiors, and so Jesus was given over to his disciples, namely Joseph of Arimithea and Nicodemus, who then applied 100 pounds of myrrh and aloe on his body (John 19:38-42). The two herbs are significant and very important as they show further proof that the disciples knew that Jesusas was still alive, since both herbs have healing properties and were used as medicine in the ancient world.

For you to know Aloe Vera is very powerful healing herbs, you can Google search it.... Aloe is a genus containing about 500 species, the most common one being Aloe Vera and grows in Africa and the Middle East. It is very valuable, so much so that the great thinker “Aristotle, being aware that the healing properties of Aloe would be invaluable to soldiers wounded in battle, advised his student Alexander III (‘the Great’) to conquer all lands that grew it, especially the island of Socotra off the coast of Eastern Africa […] Pedanius Dioscorides, a physician in the Roman army, mentioned medicinal Aloes in his encyclopaedic Greek herbal De Materia Medica (Approximately around 75 BC)”

This was certainly not the Jewish burial practise; simple oils were applied to the body for cleaning purposes, but not expensive medicines. This was for the purpose of healing Jesus’ wounds and stop the bleeding. And so the two disciples who took away Jesus’ body knew that he was still alive and had planned his rescue, they brought along with them huge amounts of herbs and medicines to wrap Jesus’ body, and to stop the excessive bleeding. and I can tell you, a dead body can never bleed

5. Finally, after recovering somewhat from his wounds and being able to walk, Jesus appears to his disciples. Some of them weren’t in on the plan and did not know he survived, they thought him to be a ghost! (Luke 24:39). But Jesus quickly removed their doubt and showed him his wounds and told them that it was him in the “flesh”. He was hungry as well and asked for some food and then ate in front of them.
What could this mean? Is this Jesusas raised from the dead? With the same wounds and hungry? Doesn’t the above sound like the same Jesusas who taught his disciples? He is naturally comforting them.

Remember I said Jesus was saved,.... Read through the book of Hebrews (Hebrews 5:5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee.

Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 5:7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;

From this verse one can say the prayer was answered.

Jesus never died....... If you want another proof aside these, I'm here to give you more than 20 proof he did not die and he was alive.
may God forgive you.

1 Like

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 8:47am On Oct 09, 2022
Olambees:
l .The two thieves on either side of Jesus were executed, but the soldiers saw that Jesus was unconscious and thought him already dead, but to ensure that he was not faking it, they pierced his side with a spear, resulting in a sudden flow of blood and water (John 19:31-34), a sure sign that his heart was still pumping and that he was alive. ...

See Madness!

One group of people who know when a person is dead is soldiers.

And the soldiers still did exactly what they do to check whether a person is dead, by puncturing the body to release air.

Who can even survive that 24 hours of torture for the last food he ate was more than 24 hours back before give and take, 3 hours past before he was arrested.

Then plus minus 2 hours passed before he was take to the Pharisee Court.

Then trial, let say 1 hour. Before his first conviction.

Before he was transferred to governors court, ....

Even before He got the cross He was already dying which is why He fell down and could not even carry His cross.

So, you are talking absolute insanity and refined rubbish!

3 Likes

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 8:52am On Oct 09, 2022
Kayberg:
Stab yourself in the side with a knife, wait till evening, apply Aloe Vera and tell us the result after 3 Days.

Can't you see your explanations up there makes you sound unreasonable?

JESUS CHRIST, while in the garden praying, said:

“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
— Matthew 26:39 (KJV)

You talking about minor injuries:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
² And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

You are mistaking, please refer to your Bible. Jesus was taken down from the cross immediately after piercing him with the sword thinking he was dead
As a reasonable person, ask your self or make research, can a dead man be pierced with so much blood gushing out.

Why would they cover him with so much medicinal herbs like aloe and myrrh oil in 100 pounds. I can tell you it's because they see a sign of life in him.

Why would you even think the Jews will have him killed? It's not possible. Reason.

Even the four canonical gospel contradicts each other on the account of Jesus death, showing these are all words of conjectures... Mere assumptions.

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 8:52am On Oct 09, 2022
Kayberg:
Stab yourself in the side with a knife, wait till evening, apply Aloe Vera and tell us the result after 3 Days.

Can't you see your explanations up there makes you sound unreasonable?

JESUS CHRIST, while in the garden praying, said:

“And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”
— Matthew 26:39 (KJV)

You talking about minor injuries:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
¹ Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
² And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

Lol
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 9:02am On Oct 09, 2022
youngdave78:

may God forgive you.

Amen
May the Almighty forgives us all
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 9:10am On Oct 09, 2022
Olambees:


You are mistaking, please refer to your Bible. Jesus was taken down from the cross immediately after piercing him with the sword thinking he was dead
As a reasonable person, ask your self or make research, can a dead man be pierced with so much blood gushing out..

Go to crime section and YouTube to see all those dead people, still bleeding even after they have died. The children in the school were still bleeding when the police came.

Olambees:

Why would they cover him with so much medicinal herbs like aloe and myrrh oil in 100 pounds. I can tell you it's because they see a sign of life in him.

Go and see how don jazzy buried his mom, make up and perfume was there. That means he was treating her as per your sense, eh?

You are just grabbing at straws now that you appreciate that God has rejected your Ishmael lineage, so you are seeking even any insane thing to attack The Lord Jesus Christ, EXACTLY AS PROPHECIED!

Hence your desperate insane attempt.

3 Likes

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 9:37am On Oct 09, 2022
Kayberg:
Then go find out the process of dying on a cross or by crucifixion.

You actually don't know the process of crucifixion before asking me this question, because if you had known you wouldn't have asked.

No man has ever died on the same day of crucifixion.... The purpose of the crucifixion is for the person die a slow death. And crucifixion sometimes takes up to 9 days before the person died. According to some research, some people survived crucifixion after 11 days.

Consider why the other two prisoners bone were broken and left his own unbroken.
Remember the Pilates doesn't want him killed by his soldiers because his wife had a dream and he rather obey the Jews by crucifying him instead. He was even surprised he died too quickly when they informed him.... Mark 15:44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 10:10am On Oct 09, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


See Madness!

One group of people who know when a person is dead is soldiers.

And the soldiers still did exactly what they do to check whether a person is dead, by puncturing the body to release air.

Who can even survive that 24 hours of torture for the last food he ate was more than 24 hours back before give and take, 3 hours past before he was arrested.

Then plus minus 2 hours passed before he was take to the Pharisee Court.

Then trial, let say 1 hour. Before his first conviction.

Before he was transferred to governors court, ....

Even before He got the cross He was already dying which is why He fell down and could not even carry His cross.

So, you are talking absolute insanity and refined rubbish!


By releasing air??
You actually don't read your Bible....when the bible stated blood and water gushes out.

You said 24 hours of toture??
Many people survived it not to talk of a 33yrs old Jesus.... And it's not even upto 12hours in the case of Jesus. And they can't whip him more than 39 times according to the Jewish law..(Deuteronomy 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.)..even Paul confirms it...(2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.)

You even said for with the little food he ate.... Remember he fasted for Forty good days and night. Besides what kind of God or son of God depends on food for survival.

You said he fell down unable to carry his own cross??
Is that not contradicting John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Therefore you are the one talking out of knowledge... I won't use insanity as you have done

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 10:25am On Oct 09, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


Go to crime section and YouTube to see all those dead people, still bleeding even after they have died. The children in the school were still bleeding when the police came.



Go and see how don jazzy buried his mom, make up and perfume was there. That means he was treating her as per your sense, eh?

You are just grabbing at straws now that we appreciate that God has rejected your Ishmael lineage, so you are seeking even any insane thing to attack The Lord Jesus Christ, EXACTLY AS PROPHECIED!

Hence your desperate insane attempt.

Make up and perfumes seems medicinal to you, he would have covered her with lip gloss as well..... Look at you.

Does the Jews covered their dead bodies with aloe and myrrh?? Why is Jesus case different??

Think before you open that big thing of yours

2 Likes

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 8:25am On Oct 10, 2022
Olambees:

By releasing air??
You actually don't read your Bible....when the bible stated blood and water gushes out.

When a person is stabbed is it only water and blood that escapes?

Olambees:

You said 24 hours of toture??
Many people survived it not to talk of a 33yrs old Jesus.... And it's not even upto 12hours in the case of Jesus. And they can't whip him more than 39 times according to the Jewish law..(Deuteronomy 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.)..even Paul confirms it...(2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.)

Go and see the last time He ate before His ordeal started. Even people who go to work or school or stay at home after eating breakfast are already weak by 4:00pm.

Then you add the trouble of being taken to police station where He was beaten before they took Him to the judges, before He was SCOURGED NOT FLOGGED, FROM ROMAN SOLDIERS (so Deuteronomy does not apply) NOT CIVILIANS, AND NOT EVEN ONE SOLDIER

You really are insane if you think a hungry man can survive all these before He even started to carry a cross that is probably as heavy as a bag of rice over a long distance.

You are insane if you think you anyone can survive that!

Olambees:

You even said for with the little food he ate.... Remember he fasted for Forty good days and night. Besides what kind of God or son of God depends on food for survival.

Off point! Now you are leaving the issue running all over to make unreasonable connections. People who starve do not have arrests and detention and trial and beatings added to their starvation.

Olambees:

You said he fell down unable
to carry his own cross??
Is that not contradicting John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Another Change of Post! "He fell down" means He carried it!

Therefore, you are still the who has come to display insanity here.

Since you reject Christ den go your house na. Na only mad pesin na im dey make noise about Pesin e no want.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Lawag3: 8:37am On Oct 10, 2022
Olambees:


You actually don't know the process of crucifixion before asking me this question, because if you had known you wouldn't have asked.

No man has ever died on the same day of crucifixion.... The purpose of the crucifixion is for the person die a slow death. And crucifixion sometimes takes up to 9 days before the person died. According to some research, some people survived crucifixion after 11 days.

Consider why the other two prisoners bone were broken and left his own unbroken.
Remember the Pilates doesn't want him killed by his soldiers because his wife had a dream and he rather obey the Jews by crucifying him instead. He was even surprised he died too quickly when they informed him.... Mark 15:44 And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead.

Their legs were broken to quicken their death .
When they saw that Jesus was already dead so they pierced to make sure he was dead .
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 8:47am On Oct 10, 2022
Lawag3:


Their legs were broken to quicken their death .
When they saw that Jesus was already dead so they pierced to make sure he was dead .

Breaking of legs does not kill. Breaking of legs is to prevent escape.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Lawag3: 10:12am On Oct 10, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


Breaking of legs does not kill. Breaking of legs is to prevent escape.

In the Roman crucifixion it's the legs that keeps the victim alive the way they were nailed makes it impossible to breathe well so the victims had to push their legs up and down scraping their peeled backs against the wooden cross. Even when they pierced his side blood and serum which the bible describes as water came out which is only possible on a body that is dead.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 10:32pm On Oct 10, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


When a person is stabbed is it only water and blood that escapes?

Please do findings, before commenting.....I can see you only knows how to read without applying wisdom. A dead man was pierced and blood and water gushes out, how possible... Now you added air even the bible didn't

Go and see the last time He ate before His ordeal started. Even people who go to work or school or stay at home after eating breakfast are already weak by 4:00pm.

As I said earlier, he fasted 40days and night, so, what's wrong with him even if he haven't eating for 30days before the trial.

Then you add the trouble of being taken to police station where He was beaten before they took Him to the judges, before He was SCOURGED NOT FLOGGED, FROM ROMAN SOLDIERS (so Deuteronomy does not apply) NOT CIVILIANS, AND NOT EVEN ONE SOLDIER

You really lack knowledge in Christianity. Please, Check your dictionary for meaning of scourge...

You really are insane if you think a hungry man can survive all these before He even started to carry a cross that is probably as heavy as a bag of rice over a long distance.

An hungry man, that says man shouldn't live by bread alone. I think a God or son of God shouldn't be dependent on food before he survives. And moreover, what kind of God will allow his accused son to be killed naked right in his presence even when he have the power to save him


You are insane if you think you anyone can survive that!

Lol, I'm insane, put your Bible aside and study well.... Think and reason, use your God given intellect

Off point! Now you are leaving the issue running all over to make unreasonable connections. People who starve do not have arrests and detention and trial and beatings added to their starvation.



Another Change of Post! "He fell down" means He carried it!

Lol, another contradiction..... Someone else helped him to carry it. That's why your Bible mislead you.

Therefore, you are still the who has come to display insanity here.

Since you reject Christ den go your house na. Na only mad pesin na im dey make noise about Pesin e no want.


Lol, I love Jesus pbuh more than you do, I'm more christian than you if Christianity means those that follows the teachings of Jesus.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 11:02pm On Oct 10, 2022
Lawag3:


In the Roman crucifixion it's the legs that keeps the victim alive the way they were nailed makes it impossible to breathe well so the victims had to push their legs up and down scraping their peeled backs against the wooden cross. Even when they pierced his side blood and serum which the bible describes as water came out which is only possible on a body that is dead.

You really don't know anything about the Bible. You talk without reason. You lack knowledge.
Beg the Almighty to give you knowledge that will benefit you. And stop blarbing
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 11:04pm On Oct 10, 2022
Lawag3:


Their legs were broken to quicken their death .
When they saw that Jesus was already dead so they pierced to make sure he was dead .

Please make more research, ask any cardiologist you know.....
crurifracture is the act of breaking someone’s legs so as to ease their pain by speeding along their death in crucifixion. Jesus Christ, he was in good health and in excellent mental state. He remained on the cross for a significantly short time with less exhaustion, dehydration and asphyxia. The blood loss was minimal both during scourging and crucifixion making the possibility of shock due to the loss of a large volume of blood unlikely. No bones were broken in order to hasten death. The injury to the chest with a spear can result in pleural effusion but the blood congeals in a dead man with poor flow with blood clots and pleural fluid. It is most probable that the infantry spear came to the rescue of Jesus Christ when it pierced the pericardial cavity and revived the encaged heart as ‘blood and water gushed out’ (see image below). It is only in a beating heart of a living person that blood gushes out. Skepticism has arisen in explaining with medical accuracy, the flow of both blood and water.

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Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 6:40am On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:
Please do findings, before commenting.....I can see you only knows how to read without applying wisdom. A dead man was pierced and blood and water gushes out, how possible... Now you added air even the bible didn't

Wow! You do not know that the body always has air trapped in it? Smh.

Olambees:

As I said earlier, he fasted 40days and night, so, what's wrong with him even if he haven't eating for 30days before the trial.

Repetition! Proof that you have nothing to say

Olambees:
You really lack knowledge in Christianity. Please, Check your dictionary for meaning of scourge

Everyone knows that a soldier's whip, is not a mere flogging, especially as kayberg showed you what type of whip it was

With what whip was He scourged?
A Roman flagellum.
Google what a Roman flagellum is.

And you could not answer.

So now you see, you blaspheme. It was better that you were not born. Case closed!

1 Like 1 Share

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Kayberg: 8:41am On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


By releasing air??
You actually don't read your Bible....when the bible stated blood and water gushes out.

You said 24 hours of toture??
Many people survived it not to talk of a 33yrs old Jesus.... And it's not even upto 12hours in the case of Jesus. And they can't whip him more than 39 times according to the Jewish law..(Deuteronomy 25:3 Forty stripes he may give him, and not exceed: lest, if he should exceed, and beat him above these with many stripes, then thy brother should seem vile unto thee.)..even Paul confirms it...(2 Corinthians 11:24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.)

You even said for with the little food he ate.... Remember he fasted for Forty good days and night. Besides what kind of God or son of God depends on food for survival.

You said he fell down unable to carry his own cross??
Is that not contradicting John 19:17 And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha:

Therefore you are the one talking out of knowledge... I won't use insanity as you have done

Listen to yourself!
You admitted blood and water gushed out after the piercing, and JESUS CHRIST didn't wince. Blood and water gushed out, meaning he lost a good deal of blood.

Can anyone survive losing so much blood and water?
Is it that easy to replenish such amount of within 3 days without transfusion?

Come on!
Have a rethink.
Go through your own analysis and see your errors.

1 Like

Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Kayberg: 9:06am On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


Make up and perfumes seems medicinal to you, he would have covered her with lip gloss as well..... Look at you.

Does the Jews covered their dead bodies with aloe and myrrh?? Why is Jesus case different??

Think before you open that big thing of yours

The Science of the Crucifixion

by Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. | adapted by Tally (French ’00) Flint
Each year, Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. , associate professor in the
Department of Biology and Chemistry
' presents a special lecture on the science of Christ’s crucifixion. She details the physiological processes a typical crucified victim underwent and teaches her students to see Christ’s death on the cross with new understanding.

The exact events in this scenario may not have happened in Jesus’ specific case, but the account is based on historical documentation of crucifixion procedures used during that time period. Please be aware that the following is of a realistic and graphic nature.

Keep Reading:
Scriptural Stations of the Cross: A Devotional Reflection on the Science of Jesus’ Crucifixion

It is important to understand from the beginning that Jesus would have been in excellent physical condition. As a carpenter by trade, He participated in physical labor. In addition, He spent much of His ministry traveling on foot across the countryside. His stamina and strength were, most likely, very well developed. With that in mind, it is clear just how much He suffered: If this torture could break a man in such good shape, it must have been a horrific experience.

Matthew 26:36-46, Mark 14:37-42, Luke 22:39-44
After the Passover celebration, Jesus takes His disciples to Gethsemene to pray. During His anxious prayer about the events to come, Jesus sweats drops of blood. There is a rare medical condition called hematohidrosis, during which the capillary blood vessels that feed the sweat glands break down. Blood released from the vessels mixes with the sweat; therefore, the body sweats drops of blood. This condition results from mental anguish or high anxiety, a state Jesus expresses by praying “my soul is deeply grieved to the point of death” ( Matthew 26:38 ). Hematohidrosis makes the skin tender, so Jesus’ physical condition worsens slightly.

Matthew 26:67-75, Mark 14:61-72, Luke 22:54-23:25, John 18:16-27
Traveling from Pilate to Herod and back again, Jesus walks approximately two and a half miles. He has not slept, and He has been mocked and beaten ( Luke 22:63-65 ). In addition, His skin remains tender from the hematohidrosis. His physical condition worsens.

Matthew 27:26-32, Mark 15:15-21, Luke 23:25-26, John 19:1-28
Pilate orders Jesus to be flogged as required by Roman law before crucifixion Traditionally, the accused stood naked, and the flogging covered the area from the shoulders down to the upper legs. The whip consisted of several strips of leather. In the middle of the strips were metal balls that hit the skin, causing deep bruising. In addition, sheep bone was attached to the tips of each strip.
When the bone makes contact with Jesus’ skin, it digs into His muscles, tearing out chunks of flesh and exposing the bone beneath. The flogging leaves the skin on Jesus’ back in long ribbons. By this point, He has lost a great volume of blood which causes His blood pressure to fall and puts Him into shock. The human body attempts to remedy imbalances such as decreased blood volume, so Jesus’ thirst is His body’s natural response to His suffering ( John 19:28). If He would have drank water, His blood volume would have increased.

Roman soldiers place a crown of thorns on Jesus’ head and a robe on His back ( Matthew 27:28-29). The robe helps the blood clot (similar to putting a piece of tissue on a cut from shaving) to prevent Jesus from sustaining more blood loss. As they hit Jesus in the head ( Matthew 27:30 ), the thorns from the crown push into the skin and He begins bleeding profusely. The thorns also cause damage to the nerve that supplies the face, causing intense pain down His face and neck. As they mock Him, the soldiers also belittle Jesus by spitting on Him (Matthew 27:30). They rip the robe off Jesus’ back and the bleeding starts afresh.

Jesus’ physical condition becomes critical. Due to severe blood loss without replacement, Jesus is undoubtedly in shock. As such, He is unable to carry the cross and Simon of Cyrene executes this task ( Matthew 27:32).

Matthew 27:33-56, Mark 15:22-41, Luke 23:27-49, John 19:17-37
Crucifixion was invented by the Persians between 300-400 B.C. It is quite possibly the most painful death ever invented by humankind. The English language derives the word “excruciating” from crucifixion, acknowledging it as a form of slow, painful suffering.

1. Its punishment was reserved for slaves, foreigners, revolutionaries, and the vilest of criminals. Victims were nailed to a cross; however, Jesus’ cross was probably not the Latin cross, but rather a Tau cross (T). The vertical piece (the stipes) remains in the ground permanently. The accused carries only the horizontal piece (the patibulum) up the hill. Atop the patibulum lies a sign (the titulus), indicating that a formal trial occurred for a violation of the law. In Jesus’ case, this reads “This is the King of the Jews” ( Luke 23:38 ).
The accused needed to be nailed to the patibulum while lying down, so Jesus is thrown to the ground, reopening His wounds, grinding in dirt, and causing bleeding. They nail His “hands” to the patibulum. The Greek meaning of “hands” includes the wrist. It is more likely that the nails went through Jesus’ wrists. If the nails were driven into the hand, the weight of the arms would cause the nail to rip through the soft flesh.
Therefore, the upper body would not be held to the cross. If placed in the wrist, the bones in the lower portion of the hand support the weight of the arms and the body remains nailed to the cross. The huge nail (seven to nine inches long)

2. Damages or severs the major nerve to the hand (the median nerve) upon impact. This causes continuous agonizing pain up both of Jesus’ arms.
Once the victim is secured, the guards lift the patibulum and place it on the stipes already in the ground. As it is lifted, Jesus’ full weight pulls down on His nailed wrists and His shoulders and elbows dislocate ( Psalm 22:14 ).

3. In this position, Jesus’ arms stretch to a minimum of six inches longer than their original length.
It is highly likely that Jesus’ feet were nailed through the tops as often pictured. In this position (with the knees flexed at approximately 90 degrees),

4. The weight of the body pushes down on the nails and the ankles support the weight. The nails would not rip through the soft tissue as would have occurred with the hands. Again, the nail would cause severe nerve damage (it severs the dorsal pedal artery of the foot) and acute pain.
Normally, to breathe in, the diaphragm (the large muscle that separates the chest cavity from the abdominal cavity) must move down. This enlarges the chest cavity and air automatically moves into the lungs (inhalation). To exhale, the diaphragm rises up, which compresses the air in the lungs and forces the air out (exhalation). As Jesus hangs on the cross, the weight of His body pulls down on the diaphragm and the air moves into His lungs and remains there. Jesus must push up on His nailed feet (causing more pain) to exhale.
In order to speak, air must pass over the vocal cords during exhalation.

The Gospels note that Jesus spoke seven times from the cross. It is amazing that despite His pain, He pushes up to say “Forgive them” ( Luke 23:34 ).
The difficulty surrounding exhalation leads to a slow form of suffocation. Carbon dioxide builds up in the blood, resulting in a high level of carbonic acid in the blood. The body responds instinctively, triggering the desire to breathe. At the same time, the heart beats faster to circulate available oxygen. The decreased oxygen (due to the difficulty in exhaling) causes damage to the tissues and the capillaries begin leaking watery fluid from the blood into the tissues. This results in a build-up of fluid around the heart (pericardial effusion) and lungs (pleural effusion). The collapsing lungs, failing heart, dehydration, and the inability to get sufficient oxygen to the tissues essentially suffocate the victim.

5. The decreased oxygen also damages the heart itself (myocardial infarction) which leads to cardiac arrest. In severe cases of cardiac stress, the heart can even burst, a process known as cardiac rupture.

6. Jesus most likely died of a heart attack.
After Jesus’ death, the soldiers break the legs of the two criminals crucified alongside Him ( John 19:32 ), causing suffocation. Death would then occur quicker. When they came to Jesus, He was already dead so they did not break His legs ( John 19:33 ). Instead, the soldiers pierced His side ( John 19:34 ) to assure that He was dead. In doing this, it is reported that “blood and water came out” (John 19:34), referring to the watery fluid surrounding the heart and lungs.

While these unpleasant facts depict a brutal murder, the depth of Christ’s pain emphasizes the true extent of God’s love for His creation. Teaching the physiology of Christ’s crucifixion is a constant reminder of the magnificent demonstration of God’s love for humanity that was expressed that day in Calvary.

This lesson enables me to participate in communion, the remembrance of His sacrifice, with a grateful heart. I am struck every time with the stunning realization that as a flesh and blood human, Jesus felt every ounce of this execution. What greater love than this can a man have for his friends?

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Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Kayberg: 9:22am On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


You are mistaking, please refer to your Bible. Jesus was taken down from the cross immediately after piercing him with the sword thinking he was dead
As a reasonable person, ask your self or make research, can a dead man be pierced with so much blood gushing out.

Why would they cover him with so much medicinal herbs like aloe and myrrh oil in 100 pounds. I can tell you it's because they see a sign of life in him.

Why would you even think the Jews will have him killed? It's not possible. Reason.

Even the four canonical gospel contradicts each other on the account of Jesus death, showing these are all words of conjectures... Mere assumptions.

And you just kept displaying your ignorance, instead of sitting down and listening to learn.

First, contrary to what you claimed that JESUS CHRIST was taken down immediately after the piercing ; this is what the Bible said:

“When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:”
— Matthew 27:57 (KJV)

Even there means Evening, meaning they waited for 'hours' before the evening came. And evening is a time between dusk and night. when it gets dark.

Secondly, you said Aloes and Myrrhs were used to treat him, why was His case different?

But here is what the Bible said:

John 19 (KJV)
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
³⁸ And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
³⁹ And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
⁴⁰ Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.

•Showing that is how the Jews bury their dead.

•And also, do you think Nicodemus would have come at a time when people and even his colleagues would have seen him? Meaning Nicodemus came with the spices when it was dark enough to conceal his movements and participation in the burial, not treatment of JESUS CHRIST.

•If they were trying to treat JESUS CHRIST back then, would they have kept Him in a sepulchre, and not in the house?

Mr Islamist, you need to learn before arguing.
Arguing ignorantly makes you an ignorant liar and displays confusionism when you dispute the truth.

And I remember, are you not the same Muslims who claimed JESUS CHRIST was never crucified? How come you're now trying to say He was crucified, but didn't die?

Honestly, you guys lie too much, all just to confuse people from knowing the truth. And yet, the more you lie, the more it gets exposed, and shamelessly, you switch to another lies!

See, you can only mislead those who are dunce and do not know about the things you're twisting up, not I, Kayberg.

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Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Lawag3: 11:16am On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


You really don't know anything about the Bible. You talk without reason. You lack knowledge.
Beg the Almighty to give you knowledge that will benefit you. And stop blarbing

Please I want knowledge please show me which account in the bible proves that Jesus didn't died in one day just like three verses grin
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by tctrills: 12:20pm On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


You are mistaking, please refer to your Bible. Jesus was taken down from the cross immediately after piercing him with the sword thinking he was dead
As a reasonable person, ask your self or make research, can a dead man be pierced with so much blood gushing out.

Why would they cover him with so much medicinal herbs like aloe and myrrh oil in 100 pounds. I can tell you it's because they see a sign of life in him.

Why would you even think the Jews will have him killed? It's not possible. Reason.

Even the four canonical gospel contradicts each other on the account of Jesus death, showing these are all words of conjectures... Mere assumptions.
The bible clearly declared that Jesus died on the cross. Is that not enough for you?

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Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 3:40pm On Oct 11, 2022
Kayberg:


The Science of the Crucifixion

by Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. | adapted by Tally (French ’00) Flint
Each year, Cahleen Shrier, Ph.D. , associate professor in the
Department of Biology and Chemistry
' presents a special lecture on the science of Christ’s crucifixion. She details the physiological processes a typical crucified victim underwent and teaches her students to see Christ’s death on the cross with new understanding.

The exact events in this scenario may not have happened in Jesus’ specific case, but the account is based on historical documentation of crucifixion procedures used during that time period. Please be aware that the following is of a realistic and graphic nature.

*Jesus Christ did not Die on the Cross – A Cardiologist’s Perspective*

In recent years, the crucifixion of Jesus Christ has stimulated considerable interest. The inspiration received from the masterpiece of the Promised Messiah, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Jesus in India, stimulated this author to conduct an interdisciplinary investigation on the circumstances surrounding the crucifixion and to present a historical-cum-medical accurate account as to why Jesus Christ went into a state of swoon and the circumstances that led to his recovery, and to explore the differential diagnosis of other clinical conditions put forward by doctors. There is a range of evidence on the process of crucifixion in literature. However, the credibility of any discussion will be determined primarily by the credibility of the source material. For this ‘theory’, the source material includes the extensive and detailed descriptions of the process of flogging and crucifixion found in the New Testament Gospels, and contemporary Christian and non-Christian authors. The interpretations of modern writers, based on the knowledge of science and medicine, may offer additional insight into this.

Jesus Christ was arrested past midnight at Gethsemane and taken to the high priest where he was found guilty of blasphemy. Soon after daybreak he was blindfolded, spat on the face and struck on the face with fists. There is no mention of any blood loss nor does blood loss of any significance occur with such an assault. Further, it is reasonable to assume that Jesus Christ was in good physical condition.
*Surviving Crucifixion*

Survival length on the cross generally averaged three days (with a range of two to five days). Jesus Christ did not carry the crossbar from the flogging post to the site of crucifixion (as was customary for condemned men), one third of a mile (600 to 650 m) away. At Golgotha, the crucifixion site, after twelve noon that Friday, Jesus Christ cried out in a loud voice, bowed his head, and swooned. He remained on the cross for only about two hours until the sixth hour on Friday, just before sunset, because the next day was the Sabbath and according to Jewish custom it was unlawful to keep anyone on the cross on the Sabbath, or the night previous. The soldiers broke the leg of the two thieves, but not that of Jesus Christ, as they mistook his being in a state of swoon for being dead. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced his chest, with an infantry spear, most probably into the pericardial cavity, producing a sudden flow of blood and water. After the dust storm and violent earthquake, many people had dispersed. Christ having been taken for dead, his body was handed over to Joseph of Arimathea. Nicodemus, a very learned physician who knew the secrets of ‘Therapents’ – a term for therapeutics, saw the wound with blood and water flowing, which is not seen in the dead, and spoke in a low tone: ‘Dear friends, be of good cheer, and let us to work. Jesus is not dead. He seems so only because his strength is gone. Having carefully laid the body of Jesus Christ on the ground, Nicodemus spread strong spices and healing salves, making out that he was doing so to keep the body from decaying. These spices and salves had great healing power and were used at that time. Both Joseph and Nicodemus ‘blew into him their own breath’ as if providing mouth-to-mouth artificial respiration. Nicodemus also ‘believed that it was not best to close up the wound in Jesus’ side, because he considered the flow of blood and water was helpful to respiration and beneficial in the renewing of life’. This is a well-known practice in patients with cardiac tamponade (bleeding within the pericardial cavity) where after aspiration with a wide bore needle the blood is allowed to drain to avoid recollection. At the suggestion of Pilate, Jesus Christ was then placed in a nearby inconspicuous house, built like a tomb.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 3:48pm On Oct 11, 2022
Kayberg:


Listen to yourself!
You admitted blood and water gushed out after the piercing, and JESUS CHRIST didn't wince. Blood and water gushed out, meaning he lost a good deal of blood.

Can anyone survive losing so much blood and water?
Is it that easy to replenish such amount of within 3 days without transfusion?

Come on!
Have a rethink.
Go through your own analysis and see your errors.

When a person who is alive is stabbed, is it not a shout in cry he must release? Common razor blade tear we shout, how much more a stabbing.

He is definitely not well at all.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 3:57pm On Oct 11, 2022
tctrills:

The bible clearly declared that Jesus died on the cross. Is that not enough for you?

Perhaps the Bible is false or inaccurate.......

Because, It is strange that the Four canonical gospel (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John) differ concerning the form of this cross which indicates their confusion about this possible fabrication.

There are differences between their Gospels and their historians regarding everything that has to do with the story of the crucifixion.

Take note and I hope this explains all. And please provide me a proof if these contradictions are consistent.

1. They differ concerning the timing of the Last Supper, which according to them was one of the events in the lead-up to the crucifixion. They differ concerning the traitor who led (the Romans) to Christ – did that happen at least one day before the Last Supper, as narrated by Luke, or during it, after Christ gave him the piece of bread, as narrated by John?

2. Was Christ the one who carried his cross, as John says, as was customary with one who was going to be crucified, according to Nottingham, or was it Simon of Cyrene, as the other three Gospels state?

3. They say that two thieves were crucified alongside Christ, one on his right and one on his left, so what was the attitude of these two towards the Messiah who was being crucified, as they claim?

4. Did the thieves scorn him for being crucified, and say that his Lord had abandoned him and left him to his enemies? Or did only one of them scorn him, and did the other rebuke the one who scorned him?

5. At what hour did this crucifixion take place – was it in the third hour, as Mark says, or in the sixth as John says?

6. What happened after the so-called crucifixion?

Mark says that the veil of the Temple was torn from top to bottom. Matthew adds that the earth shook and rocks crumbled, and many of the saints rose from their graves and entered the holy city, appearing to many. Luke says that the sun turned dark, and the veil of the Temple was torn in the middle, and when the centurion saw what had happened, he glorified God and said, “Truly this man was righteous.”

But John does not know anything about all that!

These are not the only weak elements and indications of falseness in the story of the crucifixion, as narrated in the gospels. Rather the one who studies the details of the gospel narratives of this story will, with the least effort, notice the great differences in the details of this story, which are such that it is impossible to believe it all or even any part of it!

How desperate are the failed attempts to fill this gap and conceal the faults of this distorted book. Allaah indeed spoke the truth when He said in His Book which He has preserved (interpretation of the meaning):

“Do they not then consider the Qur’aan carefully? Had it been from other than Allaah, they would surely, have found therein many a contradiction”

[al-Nisa’ 4:82]

Apart from the fact that the gospel accounts are not sound, and their authors themselves admit that they were not revealed to the Messiah in this form, nor were they even written during his lifetime, none of the witnesses were present at the events to which they testify, as Mark says:

“Then everyone deserted him and fled.”

Mark 14:50 – New International Version (NIV)

Because these events were not witnessed by anyone who narrated them, there is a great deal of room for imagination and poetic licence.

Let us complete our discussion of the fable of the crucifixion of Christ (peace be upon him) by looking at what the Gospels say about the Messiah’s prediction that he would be saved from death:

On one occasion the Pharisees and chief priests sent the guards to arrest him and he said to them:

“I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.”

John 7:33-34 – NIV

Elsewhere he says:

“Once more Jesus said to them, ‘I am going away, and you will look for me, and you will die in your sin. Where I go, you cannot come.’

This made the Jews ask, ‘Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, “Where I go, you cannot come”?’

But he continued, ‘You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.

I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am the one I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins.’

‘Who are you?’ they asked.

‘Just what I have been claiming all along,’ Jesus replied. ‘I have much to say in judgment of you. But he who sent me is reliable, and what I have heard from him I tell the world.’

They did not understand that he was telling them about his Father.

So Jesus said, ‘When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.

The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.’”

John 8:21-29 – NIV

Then at the end he tells them again:

“For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LordMatthew 23:39 – NIV, also Luke 13:35

The Messiah, as these texts and others show, was certain that God would never hand him over to his enemies, and would never forsake him.

“But a time is coming, and has come, when you will be scattered, each to his own home. You will leave me all alone. Yet I am not alone, for my Father is with me.

I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.”

John 16:32-33

Because of that the passers by, and indeed everyone who attended the so-called crucifixion, mocked the Messiah, as the writer of this Gospel says (although that could not have been true):

“Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads

and saying, ‘You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!’

In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him.

‘He saved others,’ they said, ‘but he can't save himself! He's the King of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him.

He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, “I am the Son of God.”’

In the same way the robbers who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.”

Matthew 27:39-44 – NIV

But it seems that Jesus’ certainty that God was with him began to waver, according to the distorted Gospel narrative, (although that could not have been true):

“Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, ‘Sit here while I go over there and pray.’

He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.

Then he said to them, ‘My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.’

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’

Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping.

…

He went away a second time and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.’

When he came back, he again found them sleeping, …

So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Then he returned to the disciples and said to them, ‘Are you still sleeping and resting? Look, the hour is near, and the Son of Man is betrayed into the hands of sinners’”

Matthew 26:36-45 – NIV

Luke describes the scene and says:

“And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow.

‘Why are you sleeping?’ he asked them. ‘Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation.’”

Luke 22:44-46 – NIV

Because of this mockery of the message of Christ – according to their claims – and because Christ thought that God was with him and would never forsake him, then it follows that the writer who fabricated this dramatic scene would end it with a vision of the despair of the Messiah and his feelings of being abandoned by God – exalted be Allaah far above what the wrongdoers say. The fabricator says:

“From the sixth hour until the ninth hour darkness came over all the land.

About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?’--which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

Matthew 27:38-47 – NIV

See also Mark 15:34

If we understand what this story means when subjected to criticism, the same will apply to the doctrine of redemption and sacrifice that is based on it.



And Allah is the Source of strength and the guide to the Straight Path, and there is no Lord but He.

The Almighty knows best.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 4:07pm On Oct 11, 2022
Kayberg:

Matthew 26:36-46, Mark 14:37-42, Luke 22:39-44
After the Passover celebration, Jesus takes His disciples to Gethsemene to pray. During His anxious prayer about the events to come, Jesus sweats drops of blood. There is a rare medical condition called hematohidrosis, during which the capillary blood vessels that feed the sweat glands break down. Blood released from the vessels mixes with the sweat; therefore, the body sweats drops of blood. This condition results from mental anguish or high anxiety, a state Jesus expresses by praying “my soul is deeply grieved to the point of death” ( Matthew 26:38 ). Hematohidrosis makes the skin tender, so Jesus’ physical condition worsens slightly.

Matthew 26:67-75, Mark 14:61-72, Luke 22:54-23:25, John 18:16-27
Traveling from Pilate to Herod and back again, Jesus walks approximately two and a half miles. He has not slept, and He has been mocked and beaten ( Luke 22:63-65 ). In addition, His skin remains tender from the hematohidrosis. His physical condition worsens.

Jesus Christ has been described by some to have suffered from an extremely rare medical disorder of bloody sweat (heamatidrosis). This may have occurred in highly emotional state in which he was in and could have resulted in hypervolemia (loss of blood volume) contributing to his death. It is rather odd to think of such rare disorder in a healthy man with a loss of a substantial volume of blood in sweat on a cold night of early April. Also it is very unlikely that a noble Prophet of God would have succumbed under emotional stress.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 5:19pm On Oct 11, 2022
Dtruthspeaker:


When a person who is alive is stabbed is not a shout in cry he must release? Common razor blade tear we shout, how much more a stabbing.

He is definitely not well at all.

So you are expecting a shout from someone that is considered weak and unconscious. And the Bible said he was pierced by the side.....
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 5:23pm On Oct 11, 2022
Olambees:


So you are expecting a shout from someone that is considered weak and unconscious. And the Bible said he was pierced by the side.....

Yes!

It is an involuntary thing a person must do, even if the shout is the last breath he has. It must go.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Olambees: 5:25pm On Oct 11, 2022
Kayberg:


5. The decreased oxygen also damages the heart itself (myocardial infarction) which leads to cardiac arrest. In severe cases of cardiac stress, the heart can even burst, a process known as cardiac rupture.

6. Jesus most likely died of a heart attack.
After Jesus’ death, the soldiers break the legs of the two criminals crucified alongside Him ( John 19:32 ), causing suffocation. Death would then occur quicker. When they came to Jesus, He was already dead so they did not break His legs ( John 19:33 ). Instead, the soldiers pierced His side ( John 19:34 ) to assure that He was dead. In doing this, it is reported that “blood and water came out” (John 19:34), referring to the watery fluid surrounding the heart and lungs.


A popular but medically unacceptable explanation has been that Jesus Christ died of cardiac rupture. It is mentioned that in the setting of scourging and crucifixion, an altered coagulable state may have resulted in thrombotic vegetation over the aortic and mitral valves which could have embolised in the coronary circulation resulting in myocardial infarction, rupture and death, meaning that blood becomes more prone to clotting, leading to a congealed mass of blood on the structures on the left side of the heart. These congealed masses may have broken off from the heart and gotten to the blood supply of the heart, resulting in the condition. This is a very naïve explanation that is hardly, if ever, seen in medical practice. The altered coagulable state (when blood congeals inside the body, rather than readily flowing) is uncommon with scourging or crucifixion. When it does develop, it takes many hours, and presents primarily as bleeding from the wound. The patient usually dies of blood loss over the next few days. These detached broken off clots mainly block the small arteries such as kidneys. The small arteries of the heart are seldom involved but if the small arteries are ever involved, myocardial infarction is extremely unlikely as the main coronary arteries are spared. If ever a heart attack does occur, rupture of the infracted segment (deadened part of the heart), usually takes five to seven days. Thus, the explanation does not find cardiological acceptance.

Another explanation put forward is the state of exhaustion on account of scourging, blood loss and pre-shock state. The fact that Jesus Christ did not carry his crossbar is given in support of this interpretation. However, one should not forget the compassionate attitude of Pilate who never wanted Jesus to be crucified in the first place. In the case of Jesus Christ, scourging was mild and no mention is given in the four Gospel account. The above explanation thus, is untenable. It has been postulated that perhaps Jesus Christ died of acute heart failure with terminal fatal cardiac arrhythmia, i.e. serious problems with the rhythm of the heart. This explanation in a man like Jesus Christ without previous history of any medical ailment makes the above diagnosis unlikely.
Re: Biblical Proofs Jesus Didn't Die On The Cross. Part 1 by Dtruthspeaker: 5:27pm On Oct 11, 2022
tctrills:

The bible clearly declared that Jesus died on the cross. Is that not enough for you?

How can the Bible be enough for an anti-Christ?

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