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@Sijien,
what facts and figures do you have?
What do you  know? I challenge you again, to present them here and I will provide five times more figures, fact (more authenntic) than yours to prove that you are dead wrong in the premise and conclusion on this issue.

You sound too naive. Do you know everyone on this forum? Do youknow the information that they have? Have you even been confirmed on the job?  Why don't you say what you know and leave it at that.
Be careful before you put yourself in some trouble.

Where were you when over 50 IKO (in Ikot Abasi, Akwa Ibom) people were killed for daring to protest the acid rain (caused by large flares) which made them to change their roofs every 9 months? Did they tell you about that in your SITP class of yesterday?
Where were you when Shell sent a lawyer to observe all the proceedings in the "Kangaroo court" that sentenced Ken Saro-Wiwa to death? Did tehy tell you about it in your SITP class?

Are you alive in that same shell that has created jobs for their people that were redundant  because the North sea fields are declining? Why did they not send them to North America where they have a "large" operation? Did they tell you that in your SITP class?

Have they told you that Shell was there in Bonny for almost 40 years (before NLNG came along) and the only serious thing that they gave to the community was a library that nobody uses?

Have they told you that the Niger Delta generates almost a quarter of Shell group's profits?

How can you be so naive in this day and age when you can have access to almost any information that you want?

I put it to you that you do not know the history, current realities or real desires of the Niger Delta  peoples.

Unknown to you and your sponsors, the struggle for the fulfilment of the dream of the Delta's peoples has gotten to an intellectual level therefore, it will not die until it is accomplished.

Brother Ono, if sijien is from the Niger Delta, then water is thicker than blood.

You know what I mean

Militants murdered Ujeya
Or he was killed by soldiers of the JTF?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/5298046.stm
Don't forget the hundreds of houses that were burnt in the Port harcourt slum at about the same time.

Within one day, the army shot and killed 13 Niger Deltans, of which Ujeya is one. Yet the militants have not killed any of its foreign hostages since their campaign started.
Who is fooling who?

As wrong as hostage taking is, does it warrant the flagrant murder that is being commited by Nigerian Soldiers?
How many Northerners did they kill when churches were burnt and several people were killed in Maiduguri during the cartoon crises.
How many people did they kill when OPC became the authority in Lagos.

@sijien, the militants are yours and they are in your domain. They are fighting the people that armed them because they wanted to remain in power.

For us in the Niger Delta, you may wish to know that we are not looking for your sympathy, we have had enough of it.
We are not looking for handouts, allocations or any such, it can fetch us next to nothing.
We seek, unashamedly, the control of our wellbeing, resources, failures, fears, succeses and destiny.
And for your information, we don't need your permission or co-operation.

Just search this site and all the answers you will find all the answers.

Try these ones

www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-3723.0.html
www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-5553.0.html
www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-7415.0.html

babs787:

now to owo, its quite unfortunate andalsoobvious that uve been unable to answer the questions iasked. i didnt ask u about paul. usawall iasked you. be sincere with yourself, read it over again and answer those questions at the tail end.

Babs, unfortunately you refused to stand up and be counted when I asked for a commitment to stay the course. However, another person did (unless you are one and the same with him).

You are free to claim that you have not seen an answer to your questions, expecially if you can prove that you are blind and have not seen the posts above.
You are free, at all times, to go back and read that post or continue in the ignorance that made you to start this thread.

Fortunately, you asked the simplest of questions and no one needed to lose sleep over them.

Olobowale,
your decision (or what seems like a desicion) to ignore, refuse to see or understand and become blind towards the simple facts is amazing.

I was waiting for you to come to grips with the real issue which is the SINFUL NATURE of man. It is not the SIN.
TayoD has said the same thing and has gone ahead to ask you where you obtained the wrong information.

I wrote -

owo:

If a man is not an offspring of Adam, then he does not inherit the fallen nature. That is why the scripture unambiguosly states that all men are born under sin (ie under the nature that was passed on by Adam)
However there is a way out of it and any and every man can be redeemed. Now a man can choose to remain in Adam’s nature (under sin and its curse) or under a new nature (God has made a way)

It is the fallen(sin) nature.

owo:

Therefore all of Adam’s offsprings do have his nature and this nature is one that lacks and ability to depart from evil – a sinful nature.

Again, it is the fallen (sin) nature

owo:

My dear, the forbidden tree was not the real problem, it was only the route or conduit to accomplishing the goal that Satan had in mind. It could have been anything, as long as those consequences were achieved then, Satan was happy and the nature of sin was implanted in Adam. The disobedience and its consequences were the problem This was then passed onto generations ahead of him

The sin could have been anything, but the issue once again is the sin nature

owo:

Your question (or set of questions) is due to a wrong understanding of what constitutes man, sin, the effects of sin and the mechanism of inheritance and transmission of the sinful nature. Jesus did not have that mis-understanding [John 2:25
And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man]. that is why he gave his life to redeem mankind from sin and all its consequenses

Dear Mr Olobowale and co., the issue is 1. SIN NATURE  2.SIN NATURE, AND  3. SIN NATURE. It cannot be substituted with anything, not even the sin that led to it.

Jesus knew that this nature is in man,
[John 2:25
And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man].

You can choose to hold onto your view or drop it for the one that is as old as humanity and alluded to by the creator of all things.

All other questions, fall into their proper place when this point is well understood.

PS: Fortunately, your view on this issue cannot change the truth nor the effect of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ on humanity in general.

Sijien
You are free to use all the negative adjectives that you can muster but it does not remove the fact that continuing to to tear down your brothers, without attacking the monsters that are perpertually sucking us dry, is flawed.

I insist that many of Nigeria's geo-political blocks in Nigeria are using our money and resources to fund and mastermind our plunder. The subject of this thread is a case in point.

As important as the in-house battle is, it is not as strategic as what is being done against us with 87% of our resources that go to the Feds.

The other week, tens were killed and hundreds rendered homeless when soldiers burnt batchers that the poor people were living because one soldier was killed. It wasn't done by our leaders.

What does Bayelsa have to show for funding Nigeria for the past forty years. Oh I forgot that it is not even on the national grid. That was not caused by our leaders

Delta state does not have a Federal University and tons of other things that others have now taken for granted.
That is not caused by our leaders.

Go and check the federal budget 2006 (I can send you one if you care) and I will tell you how and why ogun state makes more money than Delta despite you insistence on crucifying your brothers for the peanuts that they are getting.

ThatI have to explain these things to a Deltan is hurting, to say the least. Brother look at the big picture and stop seeing all the evil in your cousin simply because you see him everyday.

What is $60m dollars a month that Delta state government receives? What can it do?
SPDC's budget for this year when broken down into the 12months of the year is about $200m/month. That is more than three times the budget of the whole state.
Yet one man in the Fed minsistry of internal affairs went home with $240million. Who should be blamed? the Delta's leaders?.
There is a reported $12bn missing money from the first gulf war. Is it the Delta's leaders that are to blame?

Young man, we are being raped / plundered and decimated per second per second.

I put it to you that if and when the Delta stops being the cash cow of this immoral, corrupt and strangulating system called nigeria, it will cease to exist as a political entity.

Boy, open your eyes.

Sijien:

who hates what? i was born abd brought up in warri and my fathers house was burnt because he is itsekiri by okumagba layout boys. we ar fighting ourselves and den we go yarn dust aftre

If indeed you are Itsekiri by parentage, and you espouse the views you have expressed so far, then your sense of history, current realities and the future is GROSSLY TWISTED.

That you prefer foreigners to come and hijack your heritage because your brothers had a fight (during which you sustained injuries) reflects a sense of uncommon hatred for oneself.
Wake up!!!!

You are trying to sell yourself to the same people that instigated and funded the warri crises, if you are really a Niger Deltan.

I think you need to return to the place that you were born if you insist on your quixotic stance which does not work in Nigeria.

You asked:
Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance? How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed? And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?

The answer:
1. Background
It is written
a. Leviticus 17:11: For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.
Note the timeless truth – “the life of the flesh is in the blood”.

b. John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Note the incontrovertible truth – “God is Spirit”

c. Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Note that God (a spirit) breathed into him (Adam) and he became a living soul.

d. Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life

Note: the spirit of God made man while the breath of God gives life.

e. Job 32:8
But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Note: Every man has a spirit.

Therefore - man has a body created from dust by God (a spirit) and made alive by God’s breath. The life is carried or represented by his blood
- He has a spirit, created by God which receives understanding when inspired by God Almighty.
Adam’s sin (like every sin) did not only have physical consequences, the greater effect was on the spiritual side. Therefore,
i. Physically:- He lost the garden that was his home (Gen 3: 23) and was subjected death (Genesis 2:17- But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.)
ii. Spiritually:- He lost his fellowship with God (remember God is spirit) and was consequently dead spiritually.(Gen 3: 24)
- Due to the broken link with God, he lost understanding, (Job 28:28
And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the LORD, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.) which is departing from evil.
iii. There is much more but the above will suffice for now.

When Adam procreated, he passed the life that was in him at that time to his offspring like every man does.

Physically: His genetic composition (the whole sum of his physical life) was passed on.
Spiritually: The dead spiritual connection to God was passed on –
Having lost understanding (the ability to depart from evil) getting it back was not going to come so cheap. And the devil had this in mind when orchestrating the fall of Adam.

It had affected his life both physically and spiritually. Therefore his children who inherit his blood (-his very life) also inherited the anomaly instigated by his sin.

2.You asked : Why can God be unjust when he had sent many prophets to preach repentance?

Repentance is what a man does while conversion is what God does. The scripture says
Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Therfore sin is only blotted out when both sides of the deal is done. Man repents, and God converts and blots his sins out.
But God has said that he will not blot out sin unless there is a shedding of blood (a particular blood for that matter) –
Therefore God is not unjust in sending prophets to preach. Their preaching is to aid man to carry out his part of the deal – that is repentance. Far be it from God to be unjust.

3.You asked: How can countless men inherit a sin they have never committed?

They must inherit it because they are offspring of fallen man- Adam. (Check the background above).
If a man is not an offspring of Adam, then he does not inherit the fallen nature. That is why the scripture unambiguosly states that all men are born under sin (ie under the nature that was passed on by Adam)
However there is a way out of it and any and every man can be redeemed. Now a man can choose to remain in Adam’s nature (under sin and its curse) or under a new nature (God has made a way)

Note: The inherited nature of “absence of understanding” – (that is the ability to depart from evil) directly implies that all men are under the influence and direction of sin as long as they have that nature.
You may ask – but if they have not yet commited any sin?
Then you need to see this
Jeremiah 17:10
I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
God searches the heart and know the ways (intent/disposition route) of every man.
The very nature of Adam places in every man a disposition to think, and ultimately do evil because he has lost understanding (which is the ability to depart from evil).
You can carry out a check on your heart and see how this applies to you.

Therefore all of Adam’s offsprings do have his nature and this nature is one that lacks and ability to depart from evil – a sinful nature.

4. You asked: And if sin means the breaking of God’s law (according to dictionary), which of the children of Adam had ever known anything called forbidden tree?

My dear, the forbidden tree was not the real problem, it was only the route or conduit to accomplishing the goal that Satan had in mind. It could have been anything, as long as those consequences were achieved then, Satan was happy and the nature of sin was implanted in Adam. The disobedience and its consequences were the problem This was then passed onto generations ahead of him


Your question (or set of questions) is due to a wrong understanding of what constitutes man, sin, the effects of sin and the mechanism of inheritance and transmission of the sinful nature. Jesus did not have that mis-understanding [John 2:25
And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man]. that is why he gave his life to redeem mankind from sin and all its consequenses

Next, I will take on your second question(as stated in the first posting of this thread) and any questions that may arise out of the answers stated above.

@babs787
You can look for other ways of resolving your problem with Paul. I cannot help you with that. However, its ridiculous that you see Paul as the source of problem in a creed to which you currently (by your admission) do not subscribe to.
I'm certain that you know the effects of mudslinging and that 'those who live in glass houses should not throw stones'. try to desist from it, its an ill wind that will not blow you any good

Thanks Olabowale for the commitment on your part.

Unfortunately I cannot do your bidding as regards the following

olabowale:

please only from the mouth of Jesus directly. From the revelation given to him by his Lord who sent him(AS). You must show it and none of the Paul and interpretations will be acceptable.

Because, according to
2 Timothy 3:16 : All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And according to
2 Peter 1: 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

I will rather take heed and obey the more sure word of prophecy which is the scripture which holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. That scripture says - ALL SCRIPTURE is given by the inspiration of God and IT IS PROFITABLE for correction and instruction.

Also, I will ask no human leader as you request because
1. John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
2. 1 John 2:27
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
I will therefore rather rely on the Comforter, who is the Holy Ghost for his teaching which is truth and is not a lie.

Similarly, you will not receive any book, parchment or manuscript in Greek, Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or any other “supposedly ancient “language from me because Jehovah, our God is omniscient and consequently,
Psalm 19:3
There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard

Also, on the day that Holy Spirit descended on the disciples, it is written ;
Acts 2: 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

If my God does not discriminate among languages and allows all humans to come to him in the language they understand best, then I cannot do otherwise.


On the other hand, as you have requested, questions are welcome at any time. I just pray and hope that it does not digress, substantially, from the main focus of this thread.

All the answers are available if you commit to staying on this topic and not running away like others have been doing when they have realised that their views and statements do not add up.

I'm waiting for your words of commitment.

Thank you.

Who are the Nigerians that do not know Attah?
Such souls must be "deaf and blind".

His work in the development of Abuja and ABU are certainly not a 'state' issues neither is his presidency of the Nigerian Institute of Architects (NIA).

Who are the the crooks?
Niger Deltans? People you have met in your short sojourn in Warri? etc etc
Please clarify.

How many Niger Deltans are in the employ of Julius Berger? How much have they contributed to the Niger Delta?

Ask those in Bonny if Julius Berger will leave their multimillion dollar contracts in NLNG.

Those who don't know the solution to the Niger Delta issue will continue to chase shadows and will always stumble at the figments of their imagination

snazzy: yea, just a bit more than you can imagine,
small world it is. However, I trust that they are fine and all is well.

@ndipe: brother, kpong ibadan ado.
itie ate mba awawak. mba ke "Asia"(the continent) idaha ado.

Keep the flag flying.

@snazzy: that is great, mum itie isong nfo kama. Idem ete nfo ye ufok-abasi aba die?
cheers

lest we forget, do your utmost in what ever capacity you find yourself, to thwart the efforts of those seeking to get to the hilltop for the sole purpose of looting the treasury. Abasi do ye nnyin.

@ndipe, ama miss nkpo ke convention . ebo ke ama anem

@my2cents , nke bagha ke action 4 sometime. nya dong IM uno fien.

@snazzy, nnyin iyau adopt fien usop-usop. akit die?


All: the struggle to govern Akwa Ibom at this time should be seen fromt eh perspective of the amount of money that is available for squandering.

Never in Ibom history has it been more necessary to ensure that the best, and nothing but the best gets to hilltop mansion.

Thank you m4malik.

Nothing can obliterate the personal testimony of one saved soul, of which you are one.

Fortunately, there is still time, for anyone that is worshipping an arabian idol, to repent and follow the Lord of heaven and earth - Jehovah.