₦airaland Forum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A5-sqIfhwc

ARES Shipyard is proud to announce the completion and succesful delivery of two "ARES KND 30 FPB" brand fast patrol vessels. These 30m, aluminium vessels will be operating in Nigeria waters for costal safety and anti-smuggling operations by Nigeria Customs Service.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uI6rzHtrYY

Nigerian Patrol Boat ARES-KND-30 produced by Turkey, delivered.

https://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/cabatli53/ares%20nigeria.jpg

jln115:
Ok so what your saying because it has a foreign engine thus its not a South African design? Do you see the irony in your post? To be honest I couldn't care less what the US has upgraded and what experience they have in what so ever field. And im not claiming anything the FACT still remains that the Rooivalk was the only helicopter in the world able to preform a backflip when it first came out, regardless if it had foreign Engine and Rotor component. Imagine an Apache with a Black hawk engine and Rotor blades yet still had the same performance! This basically what the Rooivalk is, it has basically the same engine and rotor blades as the Oryx yet it has exceptional performance statistics, its a engineering marvel!

I don't care which foreign components you are using on Rooivalk. What I am talking is some needless and childless claims regarding your copter. There is not a thing like "first time Rooivalk did" If you build your copter 40-50 years after operational rotor craft invention and already producing your "engineering marvel" with foreign components. You are dependant of foreign produced critical subsystems (I think better subsystem versions are developed) to make it fly but claiming "the best and first copter doing it" like things. That's what my mind doesn't buy such things. A unmeaningfull subject to discuss

Adefuye said that Washington had refused Nigeria’s requests to buy heavy weaponry because of allegations the defense forces have violated the human rights of Boko Haram suspects.

He said allegations of human rights abuses by the military were “rumors, hearsays and exaggerated accounts put about by rivals of President Goodluck Jonathan and rights groups.”

In terms of Heavy/strategic weapon trades, EU and USA are so sensitive about human right issues. You should guarantee that There will not be any human right abuses thanks to received guns. Otherwise, Both the operators and exporters are accused for supporting such violations, even If the enemy is terrorists. Think Germany don't sell wapons to a country like Saudi Arabia and Azerbaijan as well. They are blocking us not to sell some of our weapons using their own sub-components as well but Turkey as a NATO state may persuade USA since Nigerian-Turkish relations are rapidly growing and If Nigeria insists of ordering Atak helicopters, Then It is the Turkey's turn.

Interesting, Nigeria wanted to purchase USA Cobra helicopters but refused.

http://www.punchng.com/news/why-we-refused-to-sell-cobra-helicopters-to-nigeria-us/

After that, Nigeria wanted to purchase Israeli second hand Cobra's but USA blocked that.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/.premium-1.638992

Nigeria shows interest in T-129 gunship

It couldn’t fare too well against US counterparts in South Korea and the bid in Poland remains iffy, but Turkey’s T-129 attack helicopter can soon find its first export customer in Africa, the old continent.

According to reports coming directly from Nigeria as well as leaks from the IDEF’15. a popular international defense industry fair, Nigeria has shown great interest in Turkey’s T-129 attack helicopters to help its forces fight the rising threat Boko Haram poses in the country’s north.
T-129 is generally considered to be a more “cost-effective” platform when compared to heavier choppers such as the AH-64 Apache as it provides comparable capabilities at a faction of the cost. T-129 can fire Hellfires or Turkey’s own MIZRAK-U antitank missiles, Cirit laser guided rockets and Stinger/Igla anti-aircraft missiles. It features a 20mm automatic three-barrel cannon and an helmet mounted cueing system that allows the pilot to guide the cannon where he’s looking and engage targets.

Nigeria is already a long time customer of Turkish weapon platforms, such as Otokar’s Cobra armored personnel carriers, and has a close political and economic relationship with Turkey.

Turkey was previously alleged by various sources to have shipped light weapons and firearms to Islamist militans in Nigeria, but the allegations were successfully discredited and proven to be untrue.

Short URL: http://www.trdefence.com/?p=128923


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exuS697hgwc

jln115:
Uhm...When did any of us say it was an advantage? I was purely pointing out that when the Rooivalk came out, it was the only helicopter able to preform a loop/Backflip!

Dude, You have succesfully developed various type of defence tools including attack helicopter but As everybody accepts that S. Africa is not a rotor craft innovation/excellence center of the world so Claiming some first time newness regarding performance/device while using a foreign engine is not realistic. It is same for claiming Rooivalk is the first one for this or that. USA is flying with those type rotor crafts since 50-60 years and continuously upgrading them from that time. They have a vast of experience but If you claim that Rooivalk is the first one doing this or that before them, It will be considered among serious members as just a statement typed with purely nationalistic senses.

I really don't understand Why It is so important for S. African people because backflip or Loop is done almost all type of helicopters with a specific power. Backflip capability of a copter doesn't give it an advantage or disadvatages. It is just an artistic move to be done at fairs or shows. In battlefield, There is not such a luxury or time to do such a needless thing.

Put attack helicopters aside, It is Turkish Skorsky BlackHawk utility helicopter doing back flip in 1990.

https://cdn.teknolojioku.com/data/news/1/1408993894_img20140825211118.jpg

agaugust:
The Turks will do well to extend the endurance of the T-129 from 3 hours to 5 hours with option of 4 drop tanks of fuel, so the helicopter in that recce/strike mode only has the cannon as offensive weapon. It can attack the target and call in air support, the cannon won't kill a tank, but also a tank wond run away out of sight so easily, unlike soft skin targets like personnel or cars. Most armoured vehicles cannot survive 20mm cannon shells from their roof top. The driver and occupants heads will be b.lasted.

Turkey doesn't have an intention to extend the endurance, Since current inner fuel tanks keep Atak three hours on air without needing any air refueling. BTW, Turkey is producing 91 T-129 Atak helicopter for her own needs at present. If you consider 3 hours of endurance each, You are going to see that It is a strategic offensive forces Atak provides to Turkish Land Forces.

https://defense-update.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/t129batak725.jpg

In recce/strike modes, Turkish concept is not to sacrifice any million $ helicopter with approaching dangerous zone, especially If You have a serious enemy like Greece. If you approach into such close ranges, Your copter is going to be a nice target which can be shot down easily. Greece is like a paradise of surface to air missiles.

Contrary to this, Turkish attack helicopter concept is developed with relaying highly on sensor qualities, highly advanced automatic identification softwares on FLIR and millimetric wave radar project. Instead of stepping into dangerous zones controlled by enemy, Atak will detect/identify target with a range from 25km thanks to FLIR, 40km thanks to MMW radar.

You can read the type of targets in Turkish identified by 300T FLIR (Bus, Car, Human...etc).
https://i606.photobucket.com/albums/tt148/cabatli53/hedeftepit-2.jpg


If the whether conditions block receiving serious electro-optic data, Then MMW radar with SAR mode will scan the 40km zone to identify a target. If It is a light armoured vehicle like APC or soldiers detected, Cirit missiles will be choosed to eliminate. If It is a main battle tank, It will be the line of Mizrak-L or IIr missiles. 20mm Gun is not choosed to penetrate/surpass enemy tank forces. As You also know that Tanks don't move without protection and attacking to a tank with 20mm gun is a madness for crew so The situation will be like above. Besides, Turkey is familiar with advantages of 20mm gathling gun since AH-1W Turkey operates have also similar system on it. It is the best selection against assymetric threats and light armoured soft targets.

https://img.bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/data/10044/upfile/201111/20111103212953.jpg

Turkish Army knows the serious advantages of 20mm gun and actively using it against terrorists. 20mm gatling guns are more heat resistant than 30mm single barrel equivalents so Enemy can be surpassed more quickly.

An operation video of Turkish attack helicopters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLoJT6tDBuw

mzilakazi:
So, isn't obvious that you Nigerians are big liars on mother earth

I am not Nigerian. I am just talking about ongoing agenda and expressing my hopes regarding likely further cooperations.

mzilakazi:
[size=20]Tell us what were Nigerian pupil pilots doing in Turkey wearing Somali air force uniform? Bwahahaha…[/size]

I don't know. The guy who shared photo, has introduced it as Nigerian students in Turkey. I just quoted what He typed as a source. Anyhow, Turkish military has been training more than 30 countries students under NATO regulations. They may be some of them.

https://cdncms.todayszaman.com/todayszaman/2011/02/04/tuskon-nigeria.jpg
Nigerian Turkish relations have been improving every passing years. The leaders are occasionally meeting with eachothers and creating a market for mutual benefits. It is planned to increase total trade to 2 billion $. Who knows What they have signed in last visit
https://www.brandpowerng.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/nigeria-turkey-universitty-nile.jpg

but It is understood that Nigerian leaders are seriously interested in Turkish military gears, especially land sector such as armoured vehicles. In this circumstances, Otokar Tulpar IFV may serve perfect to Nigeria, since It has a Stanag 6 level protection and best choice to hunt terrorists.


https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/bmpd/38024980/2084866/2084866_original.jpg

+ Otokar Altay MBT 64 tonnes with Akkor active protection system against anti-tank missiles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGGOARIt_Eg

AugustineAgain:
Nigerian army is the best in use of Otokar Cobra in the world, we have battle tested it in swamps, cities, roads, deserts, rivers, etc.

We have mastered all its capabilities and secrets, we even used it for purposes that other countries are not seen to have tested
.

Cobra is ordered by 12 countries all around the world. Cobra's light weight, superior IED protection and amphibious capabilities make it one step ahead of equivalents so It is so popular around the world. BTW, Georgian Cobras have been used to war against Russian forces. Russia captured one of Georgian Cobra and (Acc to some sources) applied to develop their own light weight platforms.

Georgian Cobra in war

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OfYmoag3CQ


Bahrein Otokar made armoured vehicles against riots

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt7lTAcaN-Q

I made a littile search and I realized that Nigeria is operator of Cobra-I armoured vehicles developed by Otokar.

https://i.imgur.com/DGquF5o.jpg

Otokar is one of the biggest land vehicle manufacturer institute of Turkey which is charged to develop Turkey's main battle tank called Altay. It is in trial phase at present and planned to pass into serial production in 2017. Hope to see more cooperations regarding Altay MBT.

.....................

patches689:
In your own video it says 20km

Although It is introduced as 20km, I know the first hand that AselFlir-300T has a detection range of 25km. MMW radar has a range of 40km. Turkey always tend to introduce the ranges on downgraded scales, especially for radar and missiles.

mzilakazi:
Wonder if your toy will outperform this huge machine armed with mokopa missiles.

This machine participated into Turkey's attack helicopter tender but eliminated for not fully meeting the Turkish armed forces high/hot difficult terrain requirements cause of being heavy, hard to maneouvring, costly maintenance issues, less power to weight ratio...etc. After that, It is T-129 Atak developed togather with Italy to meet ambitious requirements of Turkish Armed forces. In trials, It is proved that Atak is a beast in difficult terrains. All those means Atak is ahead of Rooivalk If we consider Turkey's requirements but other countries who has some difficult requirements than Turkey, may favour Rooivalk over Atak. It is about your need and will.

https://s3-blogs.mentor.com/jvandomelen/files/2014/07/Turkey-T-129.jpg

patches689:
T-129 doesn't come standard with radar

How does guided rocket pod with only 4 missiles make it better? Rooivalk can fire Mokopa or Ingle Zt3 - both are better than sh1tty guided rockets

Rooivalk canoon fires a bigger shell and carries more ammunition - it's better

Rooivalk has FLIR and a 4th Gen image intensifier - so well done on exposing nothing but your lack of knowledge

Again, you keep saying it's better yet you can't tell us HOW it's better

Rooivalk has all the same capabilities, BETTER performance and carries MORE munitions.

Nigeria cannot afford to pay its government workers - let alone buy the T-129

Rooivalk competes with the Z-10, Apache, ka-50(52) and mi-mil28 not your little lightweight

so Atak has also an all in one Flir called Aselflir-300T which has the biggest resolution among rivals. Which part of my statements are introducing lack of knowledge ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0LO8zojRnQ

mzilakazi:
ATAK will not stand a simple AK47 armour piercing rounds.

Do you have a source to back up your claims or It is a tradition among you to throw claims based on just your nationalistic feelings ?

patches689:
Except radar - the rooivalk has everysingle one of these capabilities

And thats the current Rooivalk - upgrade to Mk2 status will see it jump ahead again

Nothing impressive about the t-129

Actually, I didn't make anything to impress somebody here. I just introduced the advanced hardware capabilities of Atak along with performance statics. If you pay attention to my statements, You would see that I didn't compare Atak with Rooivalk since It is the Apache and Mi-28 you should compare your Rooivalk to see where you are against those biggest competitors.

Heavy attack helicopters are mainly designed in cold wars to counter huge tank fleet of enemies on large flat areas, That's why They carry more AT missiles than Tiger, SuperCobra and Atak but They are not manouvrable and agile When compared with Light class. Light copters are mainly designed to be a multi-role copters which is able to perform all Anti-tank, surveillance and COIN missions. That is about requirement of countries. Being a light attack helicopter is not a disadvantage over heavy class because Each helicopters come with + and - in its characters but Atak's power to weight ratio is unrivalled. That's why She is moving like a "Ferrari" on air.

Pay attention to maneuvrings on delivery ceremony. Turkish army pilots, operating aH-1W Super Cobra, impressed Atak's performance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giqEk5M4WE8

As a remind, Rooivalk was participated into Turkish attack helicopter tender but eliminated cause of being heavy, difficult to maneuvring on hot/high conditions of S. East Turkey and costly maintenance issues and problems to be caused by engine provider. Turkey as a operator of Bell Super Cobra, enjoys impressive capabilities of new copter called T129 Atak.

Besides, I see You are underestimating the capabilities guided 70mm missile called Cirit but It is one of the most effective and cheaper missile solution for operators against all type of light armoured threats and infantry. Today, many countries are developing an equivalent missile system but Turkey's Cirit is the first one which entered serial production before all of them. In trials, Cirit missile hit a moving target (65km/h), While the platform ıt was fired from, was moving over 220km/h.

BTW, Atak is able to carry 19 Cirit missiles, not 4.

For information:
https://i47.tinypic.com/zydphu.jpg

Cirit video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tvoirwJm9w

mzilakazi:
Well, but it looks more like a toy. Thats what people dont like. We want to see iron and other fortified materials, not just a toy machine that looks as if an ordinary AK47 rounds will pierce it open as if it were made from corrugated iron.

T-129 Atak has a protection against 12,7mm AP munitions in cockpit and motor section. Composite rotors are able to withstand against 12,7mm munitions as well.

Atak is inside of light attack helicopter group like Eurocopter tiger and USA AH-1W so Comparing Atak with those copters are more convenient. It is max. take off weights make copters light/heavy class. If costumer requires more agile, manouvrable and active copter on highly mountainous/ difficult terrain conditions to be used against various type of enemy assets, Then It is correct choice to go for light attack helicopters. Europe and Turkey prefers light attack helicopters, While USA hosts both Light and heavy class.

In additions, In terms of power to weight ratio, Atak is one of the most powerfull attack helicopter when It is compared with equivalents Tiger/AH-1W. That's why Turkish pilots call T129 as "Ferrari of sky". Even If Atak is classified as a light attack helicopter, She is able to cope with heavy attack helicopters in terms of some performance specifications such as range, endurance, rate of climb, speed. If you check out some T129 videos, You will see How agile and quick responsible It is.

At present, Turkey commenced trials of T-129 B1 variant which is a multi-role variant (Anti-tank/COIN/Surveillance mission on one platform that 360 degree covered by Electronic warfare sensors and computers to survive against coming missile).

https://i1248.photobucket.com/albums/hh498/ups434/T-129Atak-1-1.jpg

Atak uses two different Anti-tank missile called Mizrak-UIIR(IIR guided fire forget) and Mizrak-UL (Lazer guided) (which is developed by Roketsan) against heavy armoured units . Mizrak tandem warhead is able to penetrate 1100mm+ RHA armours. IIR variant is more expensive than lazer guided variant, since IIR has fire/forget and top attack modes. Atak is able to carry 8 Mizrak missiles but in accordance with mission requirements, It can be increased to 12. It is a satisfied number of anti-tank missile payload When compared with AH-1W and Eurocopter Tiger.

https://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah289/beybes/DSCN9071_zpsec9e7e4d.jpg

For less armoured units, Turkish missile maker developed a cheaper/smaller precision strike missile called Cirit. The equivalents are under development phase so Cirit is the first 2,75 inch semi active lazer guided missile system of the World and Turkey offers this missile to costumers. United Arab emirated ordered 10,000 Cirit missiles from Turkey.

https://pakarmedforces.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Pakistani-Cobra.jpg

Out of those missiles, Atak is able to carry 76 unguided rockets. No need to mention Air to air missile payload.

Avionic systems are highly advanced and dijital. T-129 Atak B1 variant is offered with obstacle detection system, lazer based wire detection system and moving map options. MMW radar will be an option since It rises the cost but offers a serious strategic capability to costumers for land target detection/engagement options. Central computer is checking everything instead of you and when copter is under a danger, EW sensors receive the type of data and inform pilots regarding it and automatically generate a counter attack thanks to jammer, chaff, flare munitions.

STM moving map/Realistic 3D navigation mode
[img]http://focusflite.stm.com.tr/upload/Node/1817/xpics/s5.p1.jpg[/img]

Helmet mounted display system is developed by Aselsan. It reflects all neccessary flight parameters to pilots, While control 20mm gathling gun and advanced electro-optic Flir called AselFlir-300T with head movements. AselFlir-300T is able to identify and detect a target with a range from 25km.

[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/cache/data/Resimler/Resimler/aselsan/avci/atakkask2-600x400.jpg[/img]

BTW, Munition stores hosts 600 20mm munitions, not 500.

Atak production documentary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DFI3fNVqYI

Atak in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M2SXVaKGY

Nigerian pilot students with T-129 Atak in Turkey
[img]http://kokpit.aero//image/data/P1120961.JPG[/img]