sonmvayina:


Maalu.....

Glad to see you were taught well by your rabbi in London.

McSquishi:


Which unknown authors are you referring to?

You’re the one who quoted 2 Corinthians, not me. I just pointed out the hypocrisy of doing so when you are simultaneously calling the entire New Testament in question.

The whole concept of God impregnating another mans wife...is what i am calling to question...

It is insulting to say the least...

There are good stories in the new testament that i like, like the parable of the good samarithan..

But you acknowledging that God impregnated another mans wife to sire a son is just plain stupiid.
It is the romans and greeks that have such idea as part of their religion, not the jews..

budaatum:


Glad to see you were taught well by your rabbi in London.

Nah, you where eating grass and folders so i called you a maalu....

McSquishi:


Which unknown authors are you referring to?

You’re the one who quoted 2 Corinthians, not me. I just pointed out the hypocrisy of doing so when you are simultaneously calling the entire New Testament in question.

Nobody knows who wrote the gospels...it was the catholic church that added those headings before they could publish them.

sonmvayina:


There are none..they are all mythologies...it is the jewish version of the igbo omenani.. Each community have their own customs and traditions. And mythologies...one is not more real than the others...it is the messages that is more important. The stories might varry..

The torah is still about Enki and Enlil..

So what is this important message in a woman's hand being cut off for shagging a man's thing?

sonmvayina:


Nah, you where eating grass and folders so i called you a maalu....

You can say whatever you want, son. Your mouth, your data.

sonmvayina:


The whole concept of God impregnating another mans wife...is what i am calling to question...

It is insulting to say the least....

Funny how you seem to be selective.

Is the whole concept of a God creating humans by breathing into mud not worth questioning?

sonmvayina:


Nobody knows who wrote the gospels...it was the catholic church that added those headings before they could publish them.

Ok, so why are you quoting from those unknown authors to help make your arguments but castigating me for “following” them?

GeneralDae:

So what is this important message in a woman's hand being cut off for shagging a man's thing?

You have to understand the sybolism and numerology and iconography of the jews. ..a woman is a symbol of wisdom...the type of woman tells you the kind of wisdom..LovePeddler means a common wisdom or knowledge. .a virgin means divine wisdom. ..a man's penis is both for reproduction and pleasure....

So read the whole story and figure it out yourself..

budaatum:


Funny how you seem to be selective.

Is the whole concept of a God creating humans by breathing into mud not worth questioning?

Why impregnante another mans wife? After commanding man "thou shall not commit adultery"...

And saying i will not profane my laws...

McSquishi:


Ok, so why are you quoting from those unknown authors to help make your arguments but castigating me for “following” them?

I am showing you that there was never any need for them, because they contradict Gods commandments...

God never asked you to follow another person, but just obey his commandments..

sonmvayina:


Why impregnante another mans wife? After commanding man "thou shall not commit adultery"...

And saying i will not profane my laws...

The entire book, both the Torah and the New Testament, is full of such absurdities. My favorite is a God telling Adam that on the day they seek knowledge they will surely die, as if God is a member of boko haram. Pity most people seem to believe that stuff, without wondering why their stupidity kills them. And thank God that Eve never believed Adam.

sonmvayina:


The whole concept of God impregnating another mans wife...is what i am calling to question...

It is insulting to say the least...

There are good stories in the new testament that i like, like the parable of the good samarithan..

But you acknowledging that God impregnated another mans wife to sire a son is just plain stupiid.
It is the romans and greeks that have such idea as part of their religion, not the jews..

You seem to be applying a much more carnal application to the story than intended. Yahshua the messiah was placed in her womb but it’s not like the creator had sex with her or defiled her. Using a virgin as a surrogate is not an abomination and even Joseph once learning she was still a virgin didn’t see her as defiled.

To me it seems you are having an issue with understanding the motives and purpose of God. Just as the other poster pointed out how making a law for a woman to sleep with her brother-in-law and cutting off a woman’s hand seems at odds with the righteousness and justice our creator is known for, so too can things like what concerns you be perplexing.

You not agreeing with the actions of the creator is not proof the actions never occurred.

McSquishi:


You seem to be applying a much more carnal application to the story than intended. Yahshua the messiah was placed in her womb but it’s not like the creator had sex with her or defiled her. Using a virgin as a surrogate is not an abomination and even Joseph once learning she was still a virgin didn’t see her as defiled.

To me it seems you are having an issue with understanding the motives and purpose of God. Just as the other poster pointed out how making a law for a woman to sleep with her brother-in-law and cutting off a woman’s hand seems at odds with the righteousness and justice our creator is known for, so too can things like what concerns you be perplexing.

You not agreeing with the actions of the creator is not proof the actions never occurred.

Which prophet did God tell that he was going to do this...
Amos3:7 says "God does nothing without first revealing it to his servant the prophet".. I have told you that isaiah 7:14 was talking about isaiah's wife the proohetess and the son was isaiah's son....the sign was an assurance for king Ahaz...

And to what end?..



So you believe a woman can become pregnant without a mans sperm..

budaatum:

The entire book, both the Torah and the New Testament, is full of such absurdities. My favorite is a God telling Adam that on the the day they seek knowledge they will surely die, as if God is a member of boko haram. Pity most people seem to believe that stuff, without wondering why their stupidity kills them. And thank God that Eve never believed Adam.

The authors never said they where writting actual events or historical events...so i dont see the torah as historical. Because i know it was written by Ezra. (It was him who created judaism)as the national religion of the jews and he drew a lot from babylonian epics..

sonmvayina:


You have to understand the sybolism and numerology and iconography of the jews. ..a woman is a symbol of wisdom...the type of woman tells you the kind of wisdom..LovePeddler means a common wisdom or knowledge. .a virgin means divine wisdom. ..a man's penis is both for reproduction and pleasure....

So read the whole story and figure it out yourself..

what if I apply your logic to every religious book out there including seemingly awkward ones? Why don't you give the new testament thesame benefit of doubt or symbolical interpretation.

sonmvayina:


The authors never said they where writting actual events or historical events...so i dont see the torah as historical. Because i know it was written by Ezra. (It was him who created judaism)as the national religion of the jews and he drew a lot from babylonian epics..

Those who wrote the New Testament also never said they were writing historical events, which is why the Gospels contradict.

And by the way, the Torah was not written by Ezra, but was edited by him.

sonmvayina:


I am showing you that there was never any need for them, because they contradict Gods commandments...

God never asked you to follow another person, but just obey his commandments..

The reason you quoted “the letter kills, the spirit gives life” was to show me there is no need for them and it contradicts God’s commandments


No one is following anyone but Yahweh and the apostles do nothing but constantly point to doing just that? Have you read?

1 Corinthians 3:5-7

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow

7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow


Are you aware even in the Old Testament that God chose men to lead and to deliver his message? so the apostles are doing nothing new by continuing to do that.

Those commandments you are referring to are now are now written in our hearts/minds, as Ezekiel 36:26 alludes to:

26...I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

When God says he will put his spirit in us it means something other than life here because we all have the spirit of Yahweh that gives us breath and that was not enough to encourage the following of decrees and laws... it is referring to the Holy Spirit


That is the new covenant discussed in Jeremiah 31:31-34

...which I previously asked you if the old covenant was such a perfect law as you stated then why in the Old Testament did God say the day will come when he will make a new covenant with us unlike the one he made before?

McSquishi:



The reason you quoted “the letter kills, the spirit gives life” was to show me there is no need for them and it contradicts God’s commandments


No one is following anyone but Yahweh and the apostles do nothing but constantly point to doing just that? Have you read?

1 Corinthians 3:5-7

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe--as the Lord has assigned to each his task.

6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow

7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow


Are you aware even in the Old Testament that God chose men to lead and to deliver his message? so the apostles are doing nothing new by continuing to do that.

Those commandments you are referring to are now are now written in our hearts/minds, as Ezekiel 36:26 alludes to:

26...I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws

When God says he will put his spirit in us it means something other than life here because we all have the spirit of Yahweh that gives us breath and that was not enough to encourage the following of decrees and laws... it is referring to the Holy Spirit


That is the new covenant discussed in Jeremiah 31:31-34

...which I previously asked you if the old covenant was such a perfect law as you stated then why in the Old Testament did God say the day will come when he will make a new covenant with us unlike the one he made before?

The new convenant is the laws written in our hearts...nobody is going to read the torah to you. The new spirit will make it effortless to obey and keep...

There is no where that speak of God sending his "son" as a sacrifice for sins...

GeneralDae:

what if I apply your logic to every religious book out there including seemingly awkward ones? Why don't you give the new testament thesame benefit of doubt or symbolical interpretation.

Thats as far as i can go...but when people start praying in jesus name...when we know it is all mythologies..? When clearly God commanded us "Do not have any other God before me".. He does not want any intermediary or mediator..so i dont see jesus as relevant to anything..he only makes people dusobey Gods commandments

sonmvayina:


Thats as far as i can go...but when people start praying in jesus name...when we know it is all mythologies..? When clearly God commanded us "Do not have any other God before me".. He does not want any intermediary or mediator..so i dont see jesus as relevant to anything..he only makes people dusobey Gods commandments

Interesting! So how do you know the Torah is God's command and the New testament is not?

sonmvayina:


Which prophet did God tell that he was going to do this...
Amos3:7 says "God does nothing without first revealing it to his servant the prophet".. I have told you that isaiah 7:14 was talking about isaiah's wife the proohetess and the son was isaiah's son....the sign was an assurance for king Ahaz...

And to what end?..



So you believe a woman can become pregnant without a mans sperm..

since you don’t believe God can create a body for himself without using the sperm of his own creation, please inform me as to whose sperm and egg were used to make the first man and woman?


If you must know which prophet God told about what he was going to do before you believe it was done then To which prophet did he announce the birth of Adam? To which prophet did he announce the birth of Moses? The arrival of Joshua?? To which prophet did he announce he would test Job?

Also, any reference i point to in order to point out the predictions of the Messiah’s arrival you will say it’s out of context, disregarding the point I told you and Yahshua himself said he came not to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill them. So when Matthew uses the Isaiah reference of a virgin having a child it is meant to be further confirmation of scripture being fulfilled... but if you won’t accept the 30-40+ fulfillment’s then it is a pointless exercise for you to ask which prophet predicted him.

GeneralDae:

Interesting! So how do you know the Torah is God's command and the New testament is not?

The Torah is divine..it has the name of God in it...the new testament has none..

sonmvayina:


The new convenant is the laws written in our hearts...nobody is going to read the torah to you. The new spirit will make it effortless to obey and keep...

There is no where that speak of God sending his "son" as a sacrifice for sins...

That makes no sense, actually.

So the new covenant has already taken place?? What year marked that?

So there was a new spirit? What does that consist of? Was there an issue with the old spirit?

You said the law as it was written was perfect because it came from God, so why was another needed?

sonmvayina:


The Torah is divine..it has the name of God in it...the new testament has none..

Lol

McSquishi:


since you don’t believe God can create a body for himself without using the sperm of his own creation, please inform me as to whose sperm and egg were used to make the first man and woman?


If you must know which prophet God told about what he was going to do before you believe it was done then To which prophet did he announce the birth of Adam? To which prophet did he announce the birth of Moses? The arrival of Joshua?? To which prophet did he announce he would test Job?

Also, any reference i point to in order to point out the predictions of the Messiah’s arrival you will say it’s out of context, disregarding the point I told you and Yahshua himself said he came not to destroy the law and prophets but to fulfill them. So when Matthew uses the Isaiah reference of a virgin having a child it is meant to be further confirmation of scripture being fulfilled... but if you won’t accept the 30-40+ fulfillment’s then it is a pointless exercise for you to ask which prophet predicted him.

Well maybe we evolved from other primates...lol

You really dont know what God is..do you?

McSquishi:


That makes no sense, actually.

So the new covenant has already taken place?? What year marked that?

So there was a new spirit? What does that consist of? Was there an issue with the old spirit?

You said the law as it was written was perfect because it came from God, so why was another needed?

The new convenant is a renewal of the old....when the messiah that God will annoint(not baptised) with a special oil. He will be a man like you and me..with a father and mother from the lineage of David through solomon his son. He will build the temple of God in jerusalem and resume the daily sacrifice to God. He will bring peace and teach men to follow the creator...

sonmvayina:


Well maybe we evolved from other primates...lol

You really dont know what God is..do you?

So basically you don’t have an answer and instead of admitting so you do this whole condescending thing...

sonmvayina:


The new convenant is a renewal of the old....

Jeremiah 31:31 specifically states that the new covenant is NOT like the covenant made the first time. So hopefully when you say renewal you are not suggesting that it’s an extension of that old covenant. Hopefully you mean renew as in replacement. And in that case I ask again why it needed to be replaced at all if as you said it was perfect?

But anyway, when did that renewal take place? The Bible says “the days are coming” so what date did it take place? An estimate would be fine...

sonmvayina:


The new convenant is a renewal of the old....when the messiah that God will annoint(not baptised) with a special oil. He will be a man like you and me..with a father and mother from the lineage of David through solomon his son. He will build the temple of God in jerusalem and resume the daily sacrifice to God. He will bring peace and teach men to follow the creator...

So it hasn’t taken place. Ok... Earlier I thought you were saying no one will read the Torah to me as present-tense.

So you do believe there will be a Messiah. And that god will send a man, that’s not at issue with you... you just don’t accept the one already sent.

The idea that god would send a regular man to save anyone in his stead actually seems more of an abomination than whatever your qualms were. And that is not at all different from his old covenant. Why would he do away with stone and replace it with stone...

You expect a literal temple to be built rather than a metaphorical temple in a physical Jerusalem... How do you pick and choose which parts of the Old Testament are not literal and which parts are not? Earlier you said certain stories in the Old Testament were not literal but meant to elucidate a point...

why would he build a physical temple which was for the officiating of priests when he says in jeremiah that every man will know him and he will place his law in our hearts and minds? What purpose would the temple serve? He says he will remember our sins no more, so why would a temple be needed as no one will need to go there to have sins forgiven? Otherwise it wouldn’t be a new covenant at all, it would be the same old one.

Anyway, this has gotten a bit away from the point: you originally said the existence of the Messiah as written in the Bible is at odds with the Old Testament and in opposition to God... you have not shown at all how that is so. You’ve only said you don’t agree with God’s method of placing life into Miriam...

sonmvayina:


Ok..so what is jesus saving by dying and how does it feature in Gods plan...

And how do you know death means anything to God if he drowned the entire earth, save noah and his family. (Contextually speaking)

Like I said, I have settled all these with you and my answers then have not changed. Further, going in this direction is not the goal of this thread.

budaatum:


Seriously, this is far greater than a laugh. Instead of reading the physical book in front of us and learning how to live productively on earth, we create in our heads a stupid thing called God that we only read about in books then some people will come on here claiming that God spoke to them when they can not even hear nor see the physical beings in front of them.

Just think how absurd it is that we people claim a Jesus who's every teaching was about how to live in peace and fruitfully on earth is offering you eternal life and you might get my point when you begin to imagine how long three score and ten years is especially if you are living them in hell.

Humans are not asking for bread, but for scorpions and serpents instead, and by golly are there thousands to give it them!

Case closed.