thesicilian:
Some men of God are leading many more souls to Christ today than Jesus Christ ever did in His own lifetime

Sharingiscaring:
In John 14:11 and 12, Jesus is quoted as saying, "believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Otherwise, believe me BECAUSE OF THE WORKS I DO. Truly truly I say unto you, ANYONE who believes in me, the works that I do shall HE do also, and GREATER works than THESE shall he do for I go unto the Father".

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13289391_screenshot20210321060023_jpeg44adb24f5d2753bc3924b53ddb4dffdd

So, where is ANYONE doing GREATER works than Jesus did?

SEE WHY I ASK

Jesus earlier said in John 14:6, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except by me".

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Today's Christians love to quote this to prove that they are better than the people of other religions. But, I'm saying that if today's Christians can't live up to the demand of John 14:12, it is unfair to insist that people should accept John 14:6 as true because, even Jesus had proofs to show for his claims: "Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father in me. Otherwise, BELIEVE ME BECAUSE OF THE WORK I DO" (John 14:11).

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obonujoker:
Invite you to the Lord's chosen on 3rd and 4th April....

Come and see what God does

Sharingiscaring:

What do you mean by "leading" souls to Christ? I understand that just ANYBODY can claim to lead souls to Christ. But, what's the GENUINE meaning of leading souls to Christ?

To answer that question, let's look at how Jesus himself led souls to himself. Matthew 4:23ff reports how he went about performing all sorts of wonders and therefore getting a multitude to FOLLOW him. In John 20:21, he said, "as the Father has sent me, so I send you". So, it means those he sent must prove their genuineness and draw people by that means as he did.

So, how are those people leading people to Christ. Every honest reading of John 14:11 - 14 shows that Jesus was referring to miraculous proofs. That's because, to be fair with people, you need to prove that you are really sent by God if you are since there are so many impostors everywhere. And to prove that it's really God who sent you, you must get that God to do what no human can do.

Now, we have all sorts of charlatans in every street corner claiming to be leading souls to Christ when they are only leading them to their bank accounts to pay and the women to their beds. It's to avoid such things obviously that Jesus would say that signs and wonders shall follow true believers in him as they followed him.

So, isn't it clear here that Jesus was talking about GREATER mighty works than just greater number of people? After all, there are religions that don't believe in Christ and they are winning greater numbers of people.

paxonel:
when Jesus said his disciples will do greater works he never meant today Christians will do greater works.
Ofcourse, his disciples of that time did the works of miracles Jesus meant they will do if they follow him.
He never mentioned today Christians.

thesicilian:

Without meaning to derail from the topic at hand or sound blasphemous, it is worthy of note that you realize that just as there's no proof that everyone being led to Christ today will genuinely give their lives to, or remain in Christ, so also is there no biblical proof that those who followed Jesus personally, did so out of genuine love or remained believers. Afterall, it is on record that one of his inner circle betrayed him and a great number of those who followed him were also among those who chose the release of a hardened criminal over the release of Jesus.

In other words, my initial point was strictly about the number of lives being touched for Jesus today. There are many instances of millions of people giving their lives to Christ in one single crusade, much more than in the physical days of Jesus.

jesusjnr2020:
What you seek, you shall soon get...

... but hope you don't waste it because greater works comes with greater condemnation if you don't repent.

God bless.

Sharingiscaring:


See eh, I like your reasoning but see where you are missing it: The reason God performs miracles is to make us have no genuine ground to doubt his truly chosen vessel. That's because he is a thoroughly fair God. But people can still harden their hearts in which case, no one can rightly accuse God if they get lost. That's why if you read Psalm 95:8 and 9, you see God telling the Israelites not to harden their hearts as their fathers did at Meribah when they refused to believe "THOUGH THEY SAW MY MIGHTY WORKS". See Hebrew 3:9 also.

So, miracles substantiate God as a just God who gives us EVERY opportunity to listen to his chosen vessels and repent. But, since we all have will power, we can still choose to refuse him in spite of all the proofs. If you still have any objection, let me know.

Sharingiscaring:


I say no to this, and I back my 'no' with a scripture. That John Chapter 14 I'm talking about is a discussion Jesus was having with his disciples shortly before he was crucified. It continued until Chapter 17 where he concluded it with a long prayer. In that prayer he said, "I pray not only for THESE ones but also for those who shall believe in me THROUGH THEIR words" (John 17:20). This means that, all the while, he had been referring not only to "these ones but also to those who shall believe in me through their words". In Mark 16:17, 18, he said, "go out to the WHOLE WORLD and proclaim the good news to EVERY CREATURE. He that BELIEVES and is BAPTIZED shall be saved but he that doesn't believe shall be condemned. These signs shall follow those who BELIEVE: In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues... They shall lay their hands on the sick who shall recover".

Remember that he was talking about ANYONE who shall BELIEVE in him anywhere in the WHOLE WORLD through the preaching of those he was addressing directly.

thesicilian:
Some men of God are leading many more souls to Christ today than Jesus Christ ever did in His own lifetime

Kobojunkie:
Did Jesus Christ ever really say that "leading many souls " has anything to do with what He called us to?
Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ command any such. Even He, Jesus Christ, did not "lead souls" as work He did for His Father. So why do you consider "leading many souls" as part of the work Jesus Christ has called anyone to? Let me guess, because the same men who are now "leading many souls" told you to believe that?

paxonel:
when Jesus said his disciples will do greater works he never meant today Christians will do greater works.
Ofcourse, his disciples of that time did the works of miracles Jesus meant they will do if they follow him.
He never mentioned today Christians.

thesicilian:

Without meaning to derail from the topic at hand or sound blasphemous, it is worthy of note that you realize that just as there's no proof that everyone being led to Christ today will genuinely give their lives to, or remain in Christ, so also is there no biblical proof that those who followed Jesus personally, did so out of genuine love or remained believers. Afterall, it is on record that one of his inner circle betrayed him and a great number of those who followed him were also among those who chose the release of a hardened criminal over the release of Jesus.

In other words, my initial point was strictly about the number of lives being touched for Jesus today. There are many instances of millions of people giving their lives to Christ in one single crusade, much more than in the physical days of Jesus.

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid there is proof that those who follow Jesus Christ personally will indeed enter into Heaven.
Jesus Christ Himself said it- He told His disciples that they would indeed rule with Him when He returned. Basically everyone of those who follow the person of Jesus Christ are assured of their place in Heaven by Jesus Christ when He becomes one with them.

thesicilian:

There's difference between a promise and a proof. Every one who becomes born again does so under the same promise that they'd reign with Him when He returned. If any of them falls by the way side during their lifetime, heaven is no longer guaranteed.

butterfly777:
Many Christians are doing greater works than Jesus did. Look well and you will see.

A few examples:
1. Jesus did not minister to more than a hundred thousands of people at a time. Some ministers have done that.

2. Jesus did not plant thousands of churches. Some ministers have done that.

3. Jesus did not heal people via the internet. Some ministers have done that.

Sharingiscaring:

What do you mean by "leading" souls to Christ? I understand that just ANYBODY can claim to lead souls to Christ. But, what's the GENUINE meaning of leading souls to Christ?

To answer that question, let's look at how Jesus himself led souls to himself. Matthew 4:23ff reports how he went about performing all sorts of wonders and therefore getting a multitude to FOLLOW him. In John 20:21, he said, "as the Father has sent me, so I send you". So, it means those he sent must prove their genuineness and draw people by that means as he did.

So, how are those people leading people to Christ. Every honest reading of John 14:11 - 14 shows that Jesus was referring to miraculous proofs. That's because, to be fair with people, you need to prove that you are really sent by God if you are since there are so many impostors everywhere. And to prove that it's really God who sent you, you must get that God to do what no human can do.

Now, we have all sorts of charlatans in every street corner claiming to be leading souls to Christ when they are only leading them to their bank accounts to pay and the women to their beds. It's to avoid such things obviously that Jesus would say that signs and wonders shall follow true believers in him as they followed him.

So, isn't it clear here that Jesus was talking about GREATER mighty works than just greater number of people? After all, there are religions that don't believe in Christ and they are winning greater numbers of people.

Sharingiscaring:
Amen. And I have it already according to his word in Mark 11:23, 24. However, I mean to say that WE ALL should be seeking this including you. Meanwhile, thanks a lot for the prayer. I feel the warmth of the Holy Spirit in you from here.


If I didn't repent in any way, this warning is the reason why I am repenting FULLY from now. So, glorify the Lord with me for using you so mightily. And please pray even more that I may be truly and permanently confirmed in the Spirit of the Lord. Above all, please, pray that there be a new era of the Church of Jesus Christ of Nazareth characterized by absolute devotion to His will and the glory of God the Father through Him that the world may know beyond any reasonable doubt that He still lives in us as he said. Amen. Maranatha!

jesusjnr2020:
Please if you don't mind, @Sharingiscaring kindly take a timeout from this thread and go and spend some time with God. Thanks.

Sharingiscaring:

Yes, that's what I'm doing already. Sharing God's word amounts to spending time out with God. But I will go solo once again after this session. Thanks.

Kobojunkie:
Are today's Christian's not His followers?

paxonel:
the disciples saw Jesus Christ physically that's how they followed him. Today Christians don't see him physically to follow does that not tell you the difference?

The question one should ask is, why did Jesus and his disciples performed miracles ?
Are Christians today performing miracles doing it to suit the purpose Jesus and his disciples did it?

Because, when the purpose of a thing is not known abuse is inevitable

thesicilian:

Kobojunkie:
Did Jesus Christ ever really say that "leading many souls " has anything to do with what He called us to?
Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ command any such. Even He, Jesus Christ, did not "lead souls" as work He did for His Father. So why do you consider "leading many souls" as part of the work Jesus Christ has called anyone to? Let me guess because the same men who are now "leading many souls" told you to believe that?

Kobojunkie:
Paul, Stephen and many of the first Christians spoken of in the book of Acts also did not see Jesus Christ physically before choosing to follow Him either.

paxonel:
the Paul and Stephen you mentioned, did Jesus Christ not appear to them at some point?
Is Jesus Christ appearing to them not a miracle?
Why will Jesus want to appear to them in the first place, that's why i asked the question.
What is the purpose of miracles?
Can you give the answer?

paxonel:
the disciples saw Jesus Christ physically that's how they followed him. Today Christians don't see him physically to follow does that not tell you the difference?

The question one should ask is, why did Jesus and his disciples performed miracles ?
Are Christians today performing miracles doing it to suit the purpose Jesus and his disciples did it?

Because, when the purpose of a thing is not known abuse is inevitable

Kobojunkie:
I can also claim Jesus Christ appeared to me at some point too. But again, according to you.. So, since Paul, Stephen , the other Christians listed and myself included did not see Jesus Christ Physically, then how did we follow Him?