₦airaland Forum

rottennaija:
That was my part 1 response. Unfortunately, my second response was removed by nairaland for whatever reason.

Below is my part 2 response.

I read through your post, very lengthy.

I'll address those I can remember.

The bible I have come to believe is a book intertwined and collectively can be understood as a whole and not in bits and pieces, 2 Tim 3:16,17.

The bible was written as a guide to man to return him to God after Adam and Eve sinned in Eden. God wasted no time in mentioning how he would reconcile man to Him, through the seed, Gen 3:15.

That's seed and everything surrounding it, stands out from Genesis to Revelation.

There is no salvation without the seed. There is no ignoring that. You discarded the seed to suit your narrative that salvation came to the ancient without it, meanwhile their salvation is linked to the seed and the ransom.

As for the account of Revelation the great crowd mentioned are righteous humans on earth. As Revelation 1:1 shows, these things are said in "signs" and not ALL literally.

For example Revelation 7:9 you quoted shows that the number of the great crowd "no one was able to number". Let's look at that statement literally, how many humans have ever walked the earth since creation, that is all those dead and alive?

1 trillion persons? Is that too much. Okay 500 billion persons? Is that still too much. Okay 100 billion persons or even less?

Now minus only the righteous people from that number, how many are left? Less than 50 billion persons or less.

Now let's just assume for assumption purposes that 1 trillion is the number of righteous people to have walked the earth and are now in heaven. Is 1 trillion as a number "countable"?

Yes it is, even if its 100 trillion, it is countable. But that number is way more than every person that have ever be born from the beginning to now but it is still countable. So when Rev 7:9 says that the number of the great crowd "no one was able to number", that statement should not be taken as black and white. If you agree with this then it points to what Revelation 1:1 says that the book was written in "signs" and therefore needs some interpretation by the holy ghost.

I will not go into that.

As for organized religion, I know alot about it.
Let me use what I learnt in my study to explain.

God first organized Judaism and the Israelites as an organized people to follow it. Their first leaders, moses and Aaron despite having God's support were not infallible, intact they died in the wilderness for their sins.

Moses and Aaron did not see the promised land despite being leaders chosen by God and of Judaism.

God did not condemn Judaism for their act, rather he continued with it and appointed Joshua and so on and so forth. He finally moved from Judaism when the seed came and the Jews rejected him.

The seed brought another organized religion, Christianity. Jesus picked 12 disciples personally as first members of that new religion. Out of the 12 one betrayed him, one denied him three times and the others abandoned him and fled.

Yet christianity continued with those same set of people minus the one that betrayed jesus and many more disciples were added, Jews and gentiles and many churches were opened from Rome to Thesalonica. The apostles were not perfect, they made mistakes too in taking care of the churches, Paul and Barnabas even bitterly argued and parted ways, still for the ministry, Acts 15: 2.


There was no denomination in the Christian faith at this time, the apostles made sure all the churches of christ were one body under him. So organized religion has always been part of God's plan for christianity.

After their death though, denomination started springing up, given birth to different Christian bodies. Those that follow what jesus and the apostles did in the bible are those people who I believe are the true Christian church and yes it is not an individual but an organisation of individuals.

needanswer:
I'll be brief. Right from Adam after they sinned, they knew about God's plan for the salvation of man, Genesis 3:15. That is the SEED. The promised seed was the ONLY way man could be saved from sin and death.

The blood of animals could never TAKE AWAY SIN PERMANENTLY, Hebrews 10:4. As such nobody could gain eternal life from them, because Adam a perfect man lost perfection, only another perfect man's death and not the death of goat, sheep or cows (who are not made in God's image) could make one gain eternal life.

Only the blood of the seed; Jesus christ as said in the beginning of time in the garden of eden could, genesis 3:15.

The ancients like abraham, david etc were AWARE of this, because God told them that the SEED will come from their lineage, hence they were all expectant of the SAVIOUR OF MANKIND, and this renders the Ex Post Facto Law ineffective.

The whole of the old testament points to the coming of the MESSIAH or SAVIOUR, even the Jews knew about the promised SEED, including those that hated jesus.

So it was only through christ death and through the eating of the holy communion that a servant of God can make heaven, there is no other way.

If you believe the blood of goat, sheep, and cows can take one to heaven then christ died for nothing. Then also the ransom doesnt add up either. How does the life of an animal lower than sinful man and not even a perfect man give eternal life? Its unheard of.


Also Adam lost perfect life on a paradise on earth. The ransom is to restore what Adam lost, as if taking us back to factory setting. Jesus death is to restore what Adam lost, it's that simple.

Adam did not lose perfect life in heaven as an angel, he lost it as a man on earth. God could simply have made us Angel's in the beginning if that was what he desired.

So the part were all Christians are born again and go to heaven doesnt add up. It's more like a fairy tale.

Like I said I'll keep it simple.

OK. It my turn to ask questions.

What is Ex Post Facto Law and when it is effective or ineffective as it relates to the discussion?

needanswer:
I read through your post, very lengthy.

I'll address those I can remember.

The bible I have come to believe is a book intertwined and collectively can be understood as a whole and not in bits and pieces, 2 Tim 3:16,17.

The bible was written as a guide to man to return him to God after Adam and Eve sinned in Eden. God wasted no time in mentioning how he would reconcile man to Him, through the seed, Gen 3:15.

That's seed and everything surrounding it, stands out from Genesis to Revelation.

There is no salvation without the seed. There is no ignoring that. You discarded the seed to suit your narrative that salvation came to the ancient without it, meanwhile their salvation is linked to the seed and the ransom.

As for the account of Revelation the great crowd mentioned are righteous humans on earth. As Revelation 1:1 shows, these things are said in "signs" and not ALL literally.

For example Revelation 7:9 you quoted shows that the number of the great crowd "no one was able to number". Let's look at that statement literally, how many humans have ever walked the earth since creation, that is all those dead and alive?

1 trillion persons? Is that too much. Okay 500 billion persons? Is that still too much. Okay 100 billion persons or even less?

Now minus only the righteous people from that number, how many are left? Less than 50 billion persons or less.

Now let's just assume for assumption purposes that 1 trillion is the number of righteous people to have walked the earth and are now in heaven. Is 1 trillion as a number "countable"?

Yes it is, even if its 100 trillion, it is countable. But that number is way more than every person that have ever be born from the beginning to now but it is still countable. So when Rev 7:9 says that the number of the great crowd "no one was able to number", that statement should not be taken as black and white. If you agree with this then it points to what Revelation 1:1 says that the book was written in "signs" and therefore needs some interpretation by the holy ghost.

I will not go into that.

As for organized religion, I know alot about it.
Let me use what I learnt in my study to explain.

God first organized Judaism and the Israelites as an organized people to follow it. Their first leaders, moses and Aaron despite having God's support were not infallible, intact they died in the wilderness for their sins.

Moses and Aaron did not see the promised land despite being leaders chosen by God and of Judaism.

God did not condemn Judaism for their act, rather he continued with it and appointed Joshua and so on and so forth. He finally moved from Judaism when the seed came and the Jews rejected him.

The seed brought another organized religion, Christianity. Jesus picked 12 disciples personally as first members of that new religion. Out of the 12 one betrayed him, one denied him three times and the others abandoned him and fled.

Yet christianity continued with those same set of people minus the one that betrayed jesus and many more disciples were added, Jews and gentiles and many churches were opened from Rome to Thesalonica. The apostles were not perfect, they made mistakes too in taking care of the churches, Paul and Barnabas even bitterly argued and parted ways, still for the ministry, Acts 15: 2.


There was no denomination in the Christian faith at this time, the apostles made sure all the churches of christ were one body under him. So organized religion has always been part of God's plan for christianity.

After their death though, denomination started springing up, given birth to different Christian bodies. Those that follow what jesus and the apostles did in the bible are those people who I believe are the true Christian church and yes it is not an individual but an organisation of individuals.

My next question.

2. When Jesus said "teaching the new disciples to obey all his command", which part were not in all?

3. When Ro 8:14 says all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God, who is excluded from all?

4. Is Jesus the passover of Christians today? Who is excluded from it?

5. Who are those to be raised on the last day in John 6:54?

6. Since Revelation was written as signs, why are the 144000 literal?

7. If God had declared the ancient mentioned in Hebrew 11 righteous through, what other qualifications do they need to satisfy you?

rottennaija:
OK. It my turn to ask questions.

What is Ex Post Facto Law and when it is effective or ineffective as it relates to the discussion?

I have answered this previously. Kindly review my old for the EX post facto law answer.

needanswer:
I have answered this previously. Kindly review my old for the EX post facto law answer.

Respectfully, you did not. This is what you said "

The ancients like abraham, david etc were AWARE of this, because God told them that the SEED will come from their lineage, hence they were all expectant of the SAVIOUR OF MANKIND, and this renders the Ex Post Facto Law ineffective.

My question is, What is Ex Post Facto Law and when it is effective or ineffective as it relates to the discussion?

rottennaija:
My next question.

2. When Jesus said "teaching the new disciples to obey all his command", which part were not in all?

3. When Ro 8:14 says all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God, who is excluded from all?

4. Is Jesus the passover of Christians today? Who is excluded from it?

5. Who are those to be raised on the last day in John 6:54?

6. Since Revelation was written as signs, why are the 144000 literal?

7. If God had declared the ancient mentioned in Hebrew 11 righteous through, what other qualifications do they need to satisfy you?

I'll be brief as usual.

2. Obey all parts, including abstaining from blood, preach etc.

3. Paul was speaking to those going to heaven, who God's spirit bears witnesses with them that they are God's son. While all Christian's have access to God's holy spirit, God's spirit bears particular witness with some in a special way than others.
When the disciples were anointed by holy spirit in pentecost, they all began speaking in different languages. When the holy spirit empowered the apostles they performed miracles, they prophesied etc? Yet not all Christian who the holy spirit come upon could perform miracles even then, yet they all had the holy spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:29 30. So just because all Christians have access to holy spirit doesnt mean God gives all of us equally his spirit.
You have the holy spirit, do you perform miraculous works?

4. Question 3 answers part of this. Like the first passover lamb, the blood was important to save ONLY the FIRST BORN SONS of each family and not the entire family, but every member of the family respectfully observed it. Christ died for us all as our lamb but amongst us he has FIRST BORN SONS that his death weighs more on cause of their special role.

5. That refers to people going to heaven primarily, as it follows with what I have explained above. Of cause secondarily those staying on earth will equally be resurrected but they cant eat the holy communion as I explained because they havent been chosen.

6. If you read my text properly while I said Revelation is in signs, I also said not ALL in bold letters.

7. They were declared righteous in line with the seed jesus and the ransom. It is the connection that you havent figured out yet.

rottennaija:
Respectfully, you did not. This is what you said "



My question is, What is Ex Post Facto Law and when it is effective or ineffective as it relates to the discussion?

You already explained what the Ex Post Facto Law is, so I dont need to go over it again. Ignorance of a law though was one angle you were trying to excuse the ancient and say the promised seed didnt affect them but that isn't true.

The ancient were fully aware of the seed and that through that seed all the earth will be blessed and they welcomed it.

Plus I also showed you that the blood of goats, sheeps , cows cannot take away sin permanently. They are even lower than the life of an imperfect man. Only the blood of the seed, another perfect man could.

needanswer:
You already explained what the Ex Post Facto Law is, so I dont need to go over it again. Ignorance of a law though was one angle you were trying to excuse the ancient and say the promised seed didnt affect them but that isn't true.

The ancient were fully aware of the seed and that through that seed all the earth will be blessed and they welcomed it.

Plus I also showed you that the blood of goats, sheeps , cows cannot take away sin permanently. They are even lower than the life of an imperfect man. Only the blood of the seed, another perfect man could.

Then you clearly misunderstood what I wrote. And you could have done yourself a little favour with a Google search. Ex post facto law has no connection with ignorance of a law. Like I explained, it is a law made after an event has occurred and then you applied the law to affect the event.

Example, riding a bike was legal in 1994 in Nigeria. The government made a law in 1998 making it illegal to ride a bike and the apply the law to past actions like those who rode bikes in 1994 so they can be punish. No constitution of any country allows such wicked laws to exist.

Now, how does a law made in the 27CE affects those who had died 1000s of years back?

Second, I made no mention of ignorance of any law. I said that those had their own requirements and they fulfilled them. There was no mention of any ignorance.

rottennaija:
Then you clearly misunderstood what I wrote. And you could have done yourself a little favour with a Google search. Ex post facto law has no connection with ignorance of a law. Like I explained, it is a law made after an event has occurred and then you applied the law to affect the event.

Example, riding a bike was legal in 1994 in Nigeria. The government made a law in 1998 making it illegal to ride a bike and the apply the law to past actions like those who rode bikes in 1994 so they can be punish. No constitution of any control allows such wicked laws to exist.

Now, how does a law made in the 27CE affects those who had died 1000s of years back?

You also getting it wrong. The seed as the hope of mankind was made in REAL TIME after Adam sinned, right in the garden of eden. It is not a back dated law.

God showed that only that seed could defeat the serpent and end sin and death that he caused.

So it renders the Ex post facto law ineffective.

Plus know that the blood of animals were never meant for giving ETERNAL LIFE but rather to forgive INDIVIDUAL sins and not ADAMS SIN or the sin we were born into.

needanswer:
I'll be brief as usual.

2. Obey all parts, including abstaining from blood, preach etc.

Did you also noticed the part he mentioned to observed all his commands? If the master commanded that his disciples be taught to obey all his command, what is not all?

3. Paul was speaking to those going to heaven, who God's spirit bears witnesses with them that they are God's son. While all Christian's have access to God's holy spirit, God's spirit bears particular witness with some in a special way than others.

When the disciples were anointed by holy spirit in pentecost, they all began speaking in different languages. When the holy spirit empowered the apostles they performed miracles, they prophesied etc? Yet not all Christian who the holy spirit come upon could perform miracles even then, yet they all had the holy spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:29 30. So just because all Christians have access to holy spirit doesnt mean God gives all of us equally his spirit.
You have the holy spirit, do you perform miraculous works?

Being led by God's spirit is different from spiritual gift. I never mentioned spiritual gift and neither does the verse in Ro 8:14. Its you bring it up.

You have admitted that all of God's people have access to God's spirit. See the bolded. What does Ro 8:14 says?

Romans 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

Do you agree with the above verse?

4. Question 3 answers part of this. Like the first passover lamb, the blood was important to save ONLY the FIRST BORN SONS of each family and not the entire family, but every member of the family respectfully observed it. Christ died for us all as our lamb but amongst us he has FIRST BORN SONS that his death weighs more on cause of their special role.

This was my number 4 question. Is Jesus the passover of Christians today? Who is excluded from it?

I didn't ask who observe what or not. And mind you, does your bible say they Jesus died to save the firstborn alone?

5. That refers to people going to heaven primarily, as it follows with what I have explained above. Of cause secondarily those staying on earth will equally be resurrected but they cant eat the holy communion as I explained because they havent been chosen.

If Jn 6:54 refers to those going to heaven primarily, is it it true that those going to heaven will not be resurrected on the last day? In fact, isn't it true that those going to heaven started resurrection in 1914 when christ was present? And then as each of them die during christ presence, they are resurrected immediately to heavenly life? So how could there be resurrected in the last day again?

6. If you read my text properly while I said Revelation is in signs, I also said not ALL in bold letters.

OK. So by what means do you attribute signs to some part and literal to other part?

7. They were declared righteous in line with the seed jesus and the ransom. It is the connection that you havent figured out yet.

But the Bible says they were declared righteous due to faith. Or is the Bible wrong?

needanswer:
You also getting it wrong. The seed as the hope of mankind was made in REAL TIME after Adam sinned, right in the garden of eden. It is not a back dated law.

God showed that only that seed could defeat the serpent and end sin and death that he caused.

So it renders the Ex post facto law ineffective.

Plus know that the blood of animals were never meant for giving ETERNAL LIFE but rather to forgive INDIVIDUAL sins and not ADAMS SIN or the sin we were born into.

No one is arguing any seed or animal sacrifice with you. I brought in the ex post facto law specifically in reference to the requirements to be born again before seeing God's kingdom.

If it renders the Ex Post Facto Law ineffective, how then do you expect Abraham, Isaac, Jacob to be born again when such laws or requirements were not made in their own time?

rottennaija:
Did you also noticed the part he mentioned to observed all his commands? If the master commanded that his disciples be taught to obey all his command, what is not all?


Being led by God's spirit is different from spiritual gift. I never mentioned spiritual gift and neither does the verse in Ro 8:14. Its you bring it up.

You have admitted that all of God's people have access to God's spirit. See the bolded. What does Ro 8:14 says?

Romans 8:14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God.

Do you agree with the above verse?

This was my number 4 question. Is Jesus the passover of Christians today? Who is excluded from it?

I didn't ask who observe what or not. And mind you, does your bible say they Jesus died to save the firstborn alone?


If Jn 6:54 refers to those going to heaven primarily, is it it true that those going to heaven will not be resurrected on the last day? In fact, isn't it true that those going to heaven started resurrection in 1914 when christ was present? And then as each of them die during christ presence, they are resurrected immediately to heavenly life? So how could there be resurrected in the last day again?


OK. So by what means do you attribute signs to some part and literal to other part?



But the Bible says they were declared righteous due to faith. Or is the Bible wrong?

Basically everything you asked ,if you read my previous post answers them without bias, they are there. I wont want to repeat myself unless it is something I havent actually addressed. They are short answers but capture all the questions you asked including this one.

I will only address John 6:54. John 6:54 poses more problems for you than for me. I'll briefly explain.

Jw believe 1914 was the year people going to heaven started to ascend. They call this period the last days. Of cause not all because some are still alive and haven't joined christ in heaven.

You dont believe in 1914, as such you believe christ started to rule in heaven immediately after his resurrection. So when does your last day start or end?

Did it start more than 2000 years ago, after the apostles died and "went to heaven" down to this time? How many centuries has since past?

Or do you believe the last day is still ahead, and so all the apostles are still dead and in the grave?

rottennaija:
No one is arguing any seed or animal sacrifice with you. I brought in the ex post facto law specifically in reference to the requirements to be born again before seeing God's kingdom.

If it renders the Ex Post Facto Law ineffective, how then do you expect Abraham, Isaac, Jacob to be born again when such laws or requirements were not made in their own time?

It is simple but you have to come to terms first with what I said about the seed and how animal sacrifices cannot wash away Adam's inherited sins from us. Only then will the others make sense.

needanswer:
Basically everything you asked ,if you read my previous post answers them without bias, they are there. I wont want to repeat myself unless it is something I havent actually addressed. They are short answers but capture all the questions you asked including this one.

I will only address John 6:54. John 6:54 possess more problems for you than for me. I'll briefly explain.

Jw believe 1914 was the year people going to heaven started to ascend. They call this period the last days. Of cause not all because some are still alive and haven't joined christ in heaven.

You dont believe in 1914, as such you believe christ started to rule in heaven immediately after his resurrection. So when does your last day start or end?

Did it start more than 2000 years ago, after the apostles died and "went to heaven" down to this time? How many centuries has since past?

Or do you believe the last day is still ahead, and so all the apostles are still dead and in the grave?

You have not addressed any of the questions I asked. You asked questions, I took my time, and address each and everyone and somehow, you feel you have addressed them?

Specifically, me ask again about John 6:54. If according to your belief, the last days begin in 1914 and those going to heaven have already started the resurrection, who are those whom Jesus said would be resurrection on the last day?

Note. He said, they would be resurrected at the last day not in the last days. Note the difference.

needanswer:
It is simple but you have to come to terms first with what I said about the seed and how animal sacrifices cannot wash away Adam's inherited sins from us. Only then will the others make sense.

I'll take this as you have nothing tangible to say.

needanswer:
It is simple but you have to come to terms first with what I said about the seed and how animal sacrifices cannot wash away Adam's inherited sins from us. Only then will the others make sense.

My next question.
Is Jesus your mediator and why?

rottennaija:
My next question.
Is Jesus your mediator and why?

You know this question is what led to our dialogue . Yes he is my mediator. Through him I can assess God in prayer and my sins can be forgiven. Also by having faith in his ransom, i can have eternal life.

rottennaija:
I'll take this as you have nothing tangible to say.

You know up until now, I have never held back from sharing what I know.

But I personally dont like arguments, unless its educational.

Like I said, it can only make sense if you come to terms with them first unless you will take me back unnecessarily when i start.

needanswer:
You know this question is what led to our dialogue . Yes he is my mediator. Through him I can assess God in prayer and my sins can be forgiven. Also by having faith in his ransom, i can have eternal life.

How about the new covenant? Do you see yourself as being a part of the new covenant?

needanswer:
You know up until now, I have never held back from sharing what I know.

But I personally dont like arguments, unless its educational.

Like I said, it can only make sense if you come to terms with them first unless you will take me back unnecessarily when i start.

In my experience, it's people that are impatient or lack what to say that throws this line. It took my time to explain myself over and over. The first question I asked, you demonstrated you had no idea of it by talking something else. I had to explain them again.

rottennaija:
You have not addressed any of the questions I asked. You asked questions, I took my time, and address each and everyone and somehow, you feel you have addressed them?

Specifically, me ask again about John 6:54. If according to your belief, the last days begin in 1914 and those going to heaven have already started the resurrection, who are those whom Jesus said would be resurrection on the last day?

Note. He said, they would be resurrected at the last day not in the last days. Note the difference.

I have addressed all your questions. Read almost all my opening lines your answers are there. The other sentences are just brief explanations to the opening line.


Christian's going to heaven will still be resurrected in the last day, at least those still alive now. I believe that last day will mark the end of satan's world.

But Hebrew words like 'day' arent so straightforward. Sometimes in the Hebrew usage they can refer to 24 hours, or even a longer period more than 24 hours, Gen 2:4. 2peter 3:8

rottennaija:
In my experience, it's people that are impatient or lack what to say that throws this line. It took my time to explain myself over and over. The first question I asked, you demonstrated you had no idea of it by talking something else. I had to explain them again.

While your experience may be relevant, it maybe in error to believe it will always serve you well.

I have told you my condition for going further, let me not say too much.

rottennaija:
How about the new covenant? Do you see yourself as being a part of the new covenant?

You are still asking the same question that I answered. So yes and i already explained what been in the new covenant mean.

Please try not to ask me the same question twice in another format. Rather ask me a new question in line with where you are heading.


Please dont ask me these kind of questions
Eg you ask: can you drive? I answer: Yes I can drive.

You ask again: So you mean you can move this car now?
I answer: Yes I can drive or moves this car.


Rather ask
Eg can you drive? I answer: yes I can drive.

You ask again: okay, have the car keys and drive this car.
I answer: okay let me drive you.


The two are different. Although the objective are the same. Dont ask me the same question in another format.

needanswer:
You already explained what the Ex Post Facto Law is, so I dont need to go over it again. Ignorance of a law though was one angle you were trying to excuse the ancient and say the promised seed didnt affect them but that isn't true.

The ancient were fully aware of the seed and that through that seed all the earth will be blessed and they welcomed it.

Plus I also showed you that the blood of goats, sheeps , cows cannot take away sin permanently. They are even lower than the life of an imperfect man. Only the blood of the seed, another perfect man could.

See the bolded. Where in my responses to you was I using ignorance of the law as an excuse?

needanswer:
You are still asking the same question that I answered. So yes and i already explained what been in the new covenant mean.

Please try not to ask me the same question twice in another format. Rather ask me a new question in line with where you are heading.


Please dont ask me these kind of questions
Eg you ask: can you drive? I answer: Yes I can drive.

You ask again: So you mean you can move this car now?
I answer: Yes I can drive or moves this car.


Rather ask
Eg can you drive? I answer: yes I can drive.

You ask again: okay, have the car keys and drive this car.
I answer: okay let me drive you.


The two are different. Although the objective are the same. Dont ask me the same question in another format.

Let me clarify. Having Jesus as a mediator and being in the new covenant are different things. The hope of living in heaven in intertwined in both, but they are very different. It's moses being the mediator between God and the Israelite and then the Israelite being in the new covenant.

Then, even when I asked you question in different ways, you should have no problem answering them unless you feel to full of yourself. I had no problem answering your questions, I took my time. You should have none.

rottennaija:
Let me clarify. Having Jesus as a mediator and being in the new covenant are different things. The hope of living in heaven in intertwined in both, but they are very different. It's moses being the mediator between God and the Israelite and then the Israelite being in the new covenant.

Then, even when I asked you question in different ways, you should have no problem answering them unless you feel to full of yourself. I had no problem answering your questions, I took my time. You should have none.

If you noticed I prefer brief answers to the point rather than lengthy ones but I appreciate the time you took to write a lengthy response.

These days it stresses me out to have to go around explaining what I have explained again, so bear with me.

Like I said, our concept of been in the new covenant is different. That concept explains how the ancient were able to be called righteous.

rottennaija:
See the bolded. Where in my responses to you was I using ignorance of the law as an excuse?

My error. I have subsequently explained the law without the IGNORANCE PART in my previous answer.

Lol. I have been reading this with smile on my face. The more you read, the clearer it becomes that needanswer is not actually looking for answers. He's seeking for validation of his held belief by hoping to win an argument.

I laugh. If you know who some of us were in the organization and what our "privileges of service" were, you won't even fancy this your show of "wit".

Rottennaija has asked you questions which you have tried to wriggle your way out of.
The questions remain

1) John 6:54 since you agree that this scripture applies to those with the heavenly hope, how come your organization teaches that the resurrection of the "anointed" started in 1914?
Notice that the Bible says . "I will resurrect him ON the last day". Jesus did not say "IN" the last day as if to suggest an extended period of time.

Please answer that.

2) According to Romans 8:14 are you led by God's Spirit or are you led by the flesh?
Please note that it is only those two options that are presented in the book of Romans. So please answer. Are you led by the spirit or flesh?

Please answer this too.

3) here comes my own questions. You say Jesus is your mediator. This is funny. The organization teaches that Jesus is not your mediator but the mediator of the 144,000 only. How do you reconcile this? BTW, if you doubt me, I will show you from your own publication

4) You claimed your Bible study "conductor" taught you that God has always have an Organization. Okay fair enough, now who or what where God's Organization in the 1100's, 1200's, 1300's, 1400's ... Before Russell had his start in the late 1800's?

Please answer this one too

5) my final question. Your organization claims to have been chosen in 1919 by Christ after inspection to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Please provide Biblical, Empirical, and historical proof to support this claim.

Show us in the Bible where this was foretold so that we can examine together. Then tell us the criteria for picking your organization as outlined by your organization let's and lets examine if your organization met this requirement.


We dey wait for answer.

@ bondatt and rottennaija make una restrict the questions to just one at a time.

For example that first question asked by bondatt is enough for the time being. Let needanswer provide answers to that first. If you are not satisfied press him further. Except needanswer hides under the cover of needanswer.

needanswer there are a lot of "the person conducting my study taught me this taught me that in your post"
Are you "studying your conductors?" or are you "studying the Bible?".

The people you are studying with always accuse others of saying "my pastor says" yours is becoming "my bible study conductor says" or the "Organization you are about to be a member of says" all na same of same. Keep that in your note when responding to questions asked.

achorladey:
@ bondatt and rottennaija make una restrict the questions to just one at a time.

For example that first question asked by bondatt is enough for the time being. Let needanswer provide answers to that first. If you are not satisfied press him further. Except needanswer hides under the cover of needanswer.

needanswer there are a lot of "the person conducting my study taught me this taught me that in your post"
Are you "studying your conductors?" or are you "studying the Bible?".

The people you are studying with always accuse others of saying "my pastor says" yours is becoming "my bible study conductor says" or the "Organization you are about to be a member of says" all na same of same. Keep that in your note when responding to questions asked.

I agree Good point. If he doesn't provide genuine answers to any of the questions there would be no need pursuing a conversation with him further.

Another Apostate has pop out of his den to support his cohorts when he noticed thet can't hold back Jehovah's sheep!

Bondatt:
Lol. I have been reading this with smile on my face. The more you read, the clearer it becomes that needanswer is not actually looking for answers. He's seeking for validation of his held belief by hoping to win an argument.
I laugh. If you know who some of us were in the organization and what our "privileges of service" were, you won't even fancy this your show of "wit".

The highlighted proves Apostle John's word timely when he said:
"They went out from us, but they are not of our sort, for if they had been of our sort they would have remained us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort" 1John 2:19

needanswer is not yet a baptized brother but see how he's giving all of you the toughest fight ever!

I realized he is surely one of Jehovah's lost sheep that has just been found when he asked the toughest question that often demoralize most Apostates.
My brother asked: "do know a better performing group of worshipers than Jehovah's Witnesses?"

Abeg Honourable Professor Bondatt can you provide answer to that first at least to show that you're fully aware of what you're doing outside Jehovah's organization!

This is the evidence to prove that you're all battling with an unbaptized but certain Witness of JEHOVAH!

needanswer:

Yes it is, even if its 100 trillion, it is countable. But that number is way more than every person that have ever be born from the beginning to now but it is still countable. So when Rev 7:9 says that the number of the great crowd "no one was able to number", that statement should not be taken as black and white. If you agree with this then it points to what Revelation 1:1 says that the book was written in "signs" and therefore needs some interpretation by the holy ghost.

I'm sure none of you noticed that in his comments, so Honourable Professor Bondatt do you expect the highlighted from a baptized JW?

I've told you guys that JEHOVAH knows His sheep and no matter where they are He will find them!

Bondatt:

I laugh. If you know who some of us were in the organization and what our "privileges of service" were, you won't even fancy this your show of "wit".

Whether you be RP, MS, elder, CO, Bethelite before you comot, nobody really send so don’t even play that card. After all Korah had privilege of carrying the ark of the Testimony along with the other Kohathites(Numbers 4:4-15) but later become rebellious(Numbers 16:1-3), does it mean that Jehovah is no longer the true God(Deuteronomy 4:39) or did that nullify his covenant with the nation of Israel? Exodus 19:5
Or what of Jesus who personally chose Judas Iscariot to be one of his foremost disciples(Mark 3:14-19) and even received the privilege of handling monetal affairs(John 13:29) but later was driven by greed &betrayed his master(Matthew 26:47), does that mean that Jesus had poor judgment and ceased being the only way to the true God? John 14:6