₦airaland Forum

shymmex:
Are the Russians not offsprings of Ukraine, how come there are more Russians out there than Ukrainians People migrate to a more powerful Kingdom, Itsekiri people probably (not proven) migrated to the Bini Empire, when there was a boom over there - that's the way life works, You can also use America and United Kingdom as another example, that's how it has been with migration patterns from the beginning of time, Look at how Lagos with a population of just 300,000 in 1960  rose to becoming the most populous place in sub-saharan Africa, If Nigeria was really a "Country," everyone in Lagos would be a Lagosian.

@ the boldface, seems like you didn't get what I wrote.

ovbioba, oma, ihon.

ezeagu:
Because the oldest kingdom that has used these market days is Nri and the origin of the market days stems from around the year 800 to 1000. Nri sprung up between the 9th and 13th century, and Idah (and their military) the 13th and 16th, the Obas' rule of Benin (under which most of the later Bini influence on Igbo people came) arose around the 13th century. Nri claims that Idah was founded by an uncle of the founder of Nri, but the claim hasn't been verified by Igala. Also the Bini and Igala are mostly separated by the Igbo geographically, and Nri has influenced both before.

I did a google books search: "
It also survives in the claim that Nri ritualists officiated in the coronation of the Attah of Idah, a claim which some colonial officers said they observed in practice in the 1920s. Subsequently, the Idah kingdom rose in the period between the thirteenth and the seventeenth centuries. Unlike Nri, this was an overtly political and military state."
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gvcEAQAAIAAJ

If the market days were an influence from the Bini or Igala, it wouldn't have been felt in areas (e.g Cross River Igbo) where Igala and Bini influence are completely unfelt.

Interesting. I'll take a look at this. Any other references?

Btw, Edo and Igala are not separated physically. Igala is north of Edo.

Itsekiri are basically a mix of probably Ijebu Yoruba, Edo folk, Igala, Urhobo, Isoko.

At least this is the sense I get from what I've read about them in the past.

But their language is basically a dialect of Yoruba. . .

My point is that claiming that the Itsekiri are older than the Edo makes no sense. The Itsekiri derive from a Yoruboid-Edoid mix. Whether that Yoruboid group is Ijebu is not directly connected to my point. The Binis are a subgroup of a larger Edoid group and claiming the Itsekiris existed before the entire Edoid group even though there was not an Itsekiri ethnic group before that Yoruboid group mixed with an Edoid group makes no sense. Additionally, claiming that Itsekiris were originally Ijebus and reached the coast before the rest of southern Nigeria arrived from Nubia, Egypt, or the Moon, has no bearing on which cultures are "older" or "existed before" other cultures.

Let me use another illustration, I haven't really done my research on this - but there are about 5,000 Olukumi people of Yoruba descent around an extensively ibo speaking area of Niger/Delta - I can't confirm who go there first. But based on the research I've done so far, they were there before the Ibo speaking people - and they speak Ibo as well, They are Yoruba people and Ibo speaking people dominating the area doesn't mean, the Ibos existed there before them - nor make them descendants of the Ibo race, period,

ovbioba, oma, ihon.

Only cowards speak in tongues around sane people, you're a coward and I'll leave you to your cowardice,

kingoflag:
Dont kill yourself!

Its obvious Edos (both on NL and otherwise) do not feel like being "Forced" into being Igbo, so maybe you should drop it. It is attitudes like this that make one wonder deeply about the stereotype people like the Oba of Benin and the Sardauna Ahmadu Bello have portrayed about Igbos.

So, now, just because the Edos of NL have stated clearly to you that you should not lump them with your tribal group, the next thing is to insult them that they do not know their history, when from every indication it is you that knows nothing about them?

Humility goes a long way. Try to always have it handy. You cant be a bully and expect people to befriend you.

WTF?

How in this world did I insult the Edo people?

@ the boldface, seems like you didn't get what I wrote.

All I was trying to say is that, you can't judge based on population - if you want to judge based on that - then the Igala people should be the most populous people in Nigeria, And probably Ghana, Mali, Ethiopia and Zimbabwe should be the most populous Countries in Africa,

The Greeks were the first Europeans but how come they're not the most populous Country in Europe All European Countries begot their language from Greek - how come greek is not as widely spoken as other European languages?

ezeagu:
Eri greeted the spirits as they came from the east, west. . .

What are the Yoruba market days? Do they use them for direction as well? Also, the three other Igala market days can still be Igbo even if Ede turns out to be Yoruba.

I should have written "exactly like the Yoruba compass directions". I already gave you my interpretation in that thread of why these names really refer to the names of the directions of the "four corners of the earth", and I'm not going to rehash that long drawn out argument here again, but it should suffice to say that claiming that they took three days from Igbo market days and then suddenly decided to take one day from Yoruba compass directions is absurd and it's far more likely that the correspondence between the four Yoruba compass directions and the four Igala weekdays is not accidental. That three of the Yoruba compass directions, three of the Igala weekdays, and three of the Igbo/Bini weekdays correspond makes sense in light of the interpretation of these names as direction names for the world corners, but not when interpreted with respect to spirits/deities, since the Yoruba compass directions names and the four Yoruba deities at/from those corners are entirely distinct.

As for Nri & Idah, if you google even harder, you might also come across a certain article on jstor where M.D.W (Mervyn David Waldegrave) Jeffreys was given the impression that Nri ("Ndri" was a non-Igbo group that moved in and mixed with the Igbos and that Nri had  strong Igala links. We shouldn't take every single claim from these colonial observers  or ethnographers as gospel, but should study what makes sense and discard what doesn't. That they were there and spoke to people first hand and observed things first hand does not always mean that they interpreted what they saw correctly. The Igala traditions collected from J.S. Boston and A.J. Shelton do not suggest the kind of relationship between Igala and Igbo that the Nri story you mentioned suggests, although the achadu (the leader of the Igala Mela) was indeed of Igbo (and therefore, possibly Nri) origin. If one views the Igala Mela as the "founders" or first settlers of the kingdom, rather than the royal family itself (which may have "Benin" or "Yoruba" origins, or "Jukun" origins, according to some stories, or it may be of indigenous Igala origin) then one can make such an argument for Idah being "founded" by someone from Nri. Otherwise, the claim doesn't really make sense and the Igalas have nothing suggesting Igbo origins for their kingdom. The Igala word for king is Onu (not Attah, which is a specific title). One of the Yoruba titles for a king is Oni. There are many other Yoruba-Igala links besides that.

Even if dem no want, I still love my Edo brothers

Those ones were rightfully made, not with skoin skoin heads and flat forehead

Obiagu1:
So in conclusion, the Yoruba has no tangible connection with the Bini if one takes Oduduwa out of the equation.

Culturally and linguistically, the Bini share more with the Western Igbos than they do with the Yoruba.

LOL,

Try tell that to the Oba of Benin.

shymmex:
Are the Russians not offsprings of Ukraine,

No.

Obiagu1:
How can a sane person say that Itsekiri, a mere 300000 people, is older than Bini

In that case, probably, the Itsekiri had a one child policy in their custom.

BINI is an  Itsekiri  name .

So what your point.

emmatok:
LOL,

Try tell that to the Oba of Benin.

Go and tell that Oba of Benin after this happened.

Oba Akenzua II, who had been generally snubbed and cut off from many day to day decisions in the Ministry of Midwest Affairs (in Old Western Region) except his approval was important to some Machiavellian scheme or the other, finally had enough.

emmatok:
BINI is an  Itsekiri  name .

So what your point.

LMAO!

shymmex:
Let me use another illustration,  I haven't really done my research on this - but there are about 5,000 Olukumi people of Yoruba descent around an extensively ibo speaking area of Niger/Delta - I can't confirm who go there first. But based on the research I've done so far, they were there before the Ibo speaking people - and they speak Ibo as well,  They are Yoruba people and Ibo speaking people dominating the area doesn't mean, the Ibos existed there before them - nor make them descendants of the Ibo race, period,

Now apply that logic to your claim about the Itsekiris "existing before" the Edo because they occupy the coast and reach the appropriate conclusion.

Making claims about who "existed before" another group based on geography is ridiculous.

@ exotik,

uwese

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=862912.msg10130509#msg10130509 date=1328484028]Itsekiri are basically a mix of probably Ijebu Yoruba, Edo folk, Igala, Urhobo, Isoko.

At least this is the sense I get from what I've read about them in the past.

But their language is basically a dialect of Yoruba. . .[/quote][quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=862912.msg10130509#msg10130509 date=1328484028]Itsekiri are basically a mix of probably Ijebu Yoruba, Edo folk, Igala, Urhobo, Isoko.

At least this is the sense I get from what I've read about them in the past.

But their language is basically a dialect of Yoruba. . .[/quote]yea, thats not exclusive to only Itsekiri. I mean there are many yorubas towns states people who are a mix or what ever from different ethnicities but are still yoruba/ yorubanized.

Which is why many yoruba call them yoruba anyway, we dont have such thing as" mixed "

will oshodis say they are not yoruba, but nupe? lol, will Oba of Lagos say he is bini and not yoruba?

^^^^^
If we trace each family in yoruba land, you will be shocked that almost 30% are hausas that have become yorubanized. lol.

Heh by the time you become king of a people, then your prior ethnicity/origin is irrelevant

If they decide to make me ruler of some small village in Uzbekistan today, while I may still be Yoruba my kids (who i'd like to see suceed me on the throne) will no more be Yoruba, but instead Uzebeks

I don't think it can be up to 30%. But probably some fraction like 3 or 5%.

Oyo Empire captured tons and tons of slaves. Where did all those Hausa slaves go to?

Some escaped when Afonja had his rebellion. But surely not all of them did.

Now apply that logic to your claim about the Itsekiris "existing before" the Edo because they occupy the coast and reach the appropriate conclusion.

Making claims about who "existed before" another group based on geography is ridiculous.

I didn't use "geography" as my evidence - I used researched FACTS, with linguistic and archaelogical facts, I know you're a proud Bini guy, and I'm also a proud Ijebu guy, The Ishekiris are our brothers, and they speak the old Ijebu language - and there are archaelogical facts at the Awujale's palace in Ijebu Ode that shows that we and our Itshekiri brothers migrated at the same time, and they settled along the coast of Niger/Delta - just as we settled in the Ijebu land of present day Nigeria,

I know if the Awujale's claims were fallacies, the Oba of Bini would've disputed this, Itshekiris know they still speak the old Ijebu, and I've never seen them come out openly to dispute the claims that they're Ijebus,

PhysicsQED:
@ exotik,

uwese

iyan mwen ezo no bun

obo wa balo ere. LOL Nairaland

le ye evban ree, if you no gree with sbeey8

jk jk jk

I have read somewhere also that when the Nupes defeated the Oyo Empire (I guess circa 1400s or so? perhaps earlier? no doubt someone will correct me) they replaced the ruling dynasty with one of their own guys.

So if the current Alaafin is a descendant of that same dynasty, then his distant ancestors may very well be Nupe, for all we know.

Who knows what other intermixing happened.

Yoruba aren't really some sort of pure "race" imo (not that any group on earth is.) We've interacted with our neighbors, traded with them, enslaved them, been enslaved by them, had migrants enter our land, etc.

But racial/ethnic purity isn't really important to me personally anyways.

Quote from: Obiagu1 on Yesterday at 11:45:38 PM
So in conclusion, the Yoruba has no tangible connection with the Bini if one takes Oduduwa out of the equation.

Culturally and linguistically, the Bini share more with the Western Igbos than they do with the Yoruba.

. . . .another Ogbuefi.   Incremental encroachment fed by their land grab campaign.

Why are you even responding to Obiagu1? Don't you notice that no one else is paying him any attention on his own thread?

If he choses to ignore the words of almost every single Edo person who has posted on this thread and denied an Igbo connection, that is his own choice.

@Negro_Ntns

I have read some of your post, and you're a knowledgeable brother, Can you please educate that buffoon ala exotik (brother on the DL) that the Oyo and Benin Empire didn't start in the 16th century

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=862912.msg10130691#msg10130691 date=1328486823]I have read somewhere also that when the Nupes defeated the Oyo Empire (I guess circa 1400s or so? perhaps earlier? no doubt someone will correct me) they replaced the ruling dynasty with one of their own guys.

So if the current Alaafin is a descendant of that same dynasty, then his distant ancestors may very well be Nupe, for all we know.

Who knows what other intermixing happened.

Yoruba aren't really some sort of pure "race" imo (not that any group on earth is.) We've interacted with our neighbors, traded with them, enslaved them, been enslaved by them, had migrants enter our land, etc.

But racial/ethnic purity isn't really important to me personally anyways.[/quote]theres one  hausa story about yoruba and the last hausa kingdom of Gobirawa I dont know if its true seems to hausaish for my liking honestly.


Relationship of Gobirawa with Yorubas: According to Sarkin Gobir Abdulhamid, the relationship between them and Yorubas dated back to the period of Bawa Jan Gwarzo who gave out his daughter for marriage to a Yoruba man during the Jihad movement. He said when Jan Gwarzo advanced to Yoruba land with the mission to conquer the west, the Yoruba opted for truce rather than to engage him in a war and submitted themselves to him. As a result of that cordial relationship between them ensued and they requested him to give them one his daughters for marriage which he did. In accordance with Hausa culture which Gobirawa practice, there is always a traditional joke between cousins, as such, Gobirawa regard the Yoruba as cousins because they believed that Yoruba were begotten by the  daughter of Bawa Jan Gwarzo.

^^^ I think its BS. tho

When did the Yoruba ever have a truce with Gobir?

Who was this Jihadist ruler of Gobir? The same state conquered by Usman Dan Fodio in the 1800s?

Or are they claiming that Yoruba began in the 1800s?

Strange story.

[size=14pt]For edo people on this thread I would live you all with one thing

Ovbierha we gie ede gbe, ovbiye we ehe no rhirhi se iren lelee se.

Yorubas and edo are of the same destiny. Edo people understand this I am about to tell you especially physichmd and exotik

Ifinakhuenode senoyagbe, Omahe se no ya keke Think well o

I kponmwen we. odudua a gbe wa o[/size]

The one I've heard is some ethnic group in the NE of Nigeria that has/had similar tribal marks. Supposedly when migrating from Sudan or wherever we came from, some of them stopped there, while the rest of us continued south and west.

I cannot remember the name of this ethnic group though.