LordReed:


You are trying to make an argument for a god, it's only natural for me to think that you are trying to equate scientific certainty with religious faith. I think it's better we have a discussion so that your position is clearly understood, instead of expecting one to swallow everything without question.

I don't mind you asking questions or trying to disprove what I wrote, but look at the way you have gone about it. I literally had to explain to you several times I was not using the god of the gaps argument despite it been clear I was not using it and so many others.

I am open to discussion provided we are not blinded on our own arguments to see the points/merits in another's.

LordReed:


I agree, we do need to clarify meanings from time to time.

Let's start on a clean slate then.

needanswer:


Let's start on a clean slate then.

Ok

LordReed:


Ok

The ball is now in your court to counter my post.

needanswer:


The ball is now in your court to counter my post.

Ok, one more time, what are you trying to say?

needanswer:
For those that believe God does not exist because he cannot be seen or measured, I have a question for you.

What fills about 70% of the entire universe?

The entire universe, includes our planet earth, our solar system, our milky way galaxy and all the billions of galaxies containing stars and SPACE.

The answer: DARK ENERGY.

It is so abundant in the universe, yet it cannot be seen, nobody knows what makes it up or what it possibly contains. Scientists can only guess at best, it cannot be measured directly itself, yet it is so abundant and we know absolutely nothing about it!

The part of the universe you can see and the part you can measure is about 5%, dark matter that you can't see makes up about 25% and what you can't see and can't measure makes up 70%, yet you believe that because something can't be SEEN or MEASURED like GOD, it is not REAL? Science says otherwise.

Meanwhile the most abundant thing in the universe DARK ENERGY cannot be SEEN or MEASURED, yet science believes in it because INDIRECTLY they know SPACE will not behave the way it is behaving unless there is an unseen force that FILLS it called DARK ENERGY.

So what do you have to say in your defense?

You are trying hard to commit the fallacy of ad ignoratiam

LordReed:


Ok, one more time, what are you trying to say?

To be concise, I am saying: Science accepts as facts what can be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED indirectly.

Workch:
You are trying hard to commit the fallacy of ad ignoratiam

Pardon, I have not committed that fallacy. Go and learn more about that fallacy.

needanswer:


To be concise, I am saying: Science accepts as facts what can be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED indirectly.

Ok, how does this relate to belief in a god?

LordReed:


Ok, how does this relate to belief in a god?

Boss it is clear from my post. Romans 1:20 points to the fact that God's invisible qualities and his Godship can be PERCEIVED indirectly in a similar way.

Atheist are yet to realize the third aspect.

needanswer:


Boss it is clear from my post. Romans 1:20 points to the fact that God's invisible qualities and his Godship can be PERCEIVED indirectly in a similar way.

Atheist are yet to realize the third aspect.

In what way can these qualities be perceived?

Dtruthspeaker:


No sir, I was waiting for you or someone to say I am wrong and asking me, to show how I came to see this fact, but no one has. Which is why I said it appears that I am the only one just knowing it, even crazy Oronto27 knew before I did.

i have said all that i need to say, may God be with you.

LordReed:


In what way can these qualities be perceived?

First you need to know what the qualities are: Of all God’s wonderful qualities, four are outstanding: his power (JEREMIAH 32:17), wisdom ( PSALM 104:24), justice ( PSALM 37:28), and love (1 JOHN 4: 8 ).

These are part of his qualities that can be PERCEIVED indirectly from his creation.

needanswer:


Pardon, I have not committed that fallacy. Go and learn more about that fallacy.

Becuase we don’t know what constitute 70% of the universe hence god exist. Lol

That’s Ad ignoratiam. Because we don’t know about dark mater yet doesn’t mean god exist
This is classical case of appealing to ignorance and false equivalence at the same time.

Image123:


i have said all that i need to say, may God be with you.

I know!

Workch:
Becuase we don’t know what constitute 70% of the universe hence god exist. Lol

That’s Ad ignoratiam. Because we don’t know about dark mater yet doesn’t mean god exist

You are still wrong, I have addressed this already, go to page 2 and 3 of this post and see where it was trashed.

Workch:
Becuase we don’t know what constitute 70% of the universe hence god exist. Lol

That’s Ad ignoratiam. Because we don’t know about dark mater yet doesn’t mean god exist
This is classical case of appealing to ignorance and false equivalence at the same time.

Let me just help you out with the import of my post because many atheist struggled to understand it. It is as follows below:

To be concise, I am saying for a fact: Science accepts as facts what can be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED indirectly, and not just what can be SEEN or MEASURED as atheist believe.

needanswer:


You are still wrong, I have address this already, go to page 2 and 3 of this post and see where it was trashed.

I’m not wrong because you said I’m wrong.

That’s also a fallacy.

Saying God exist because we don’t understand dark energy yet is faulty equivalence and appeal to ignorance at the this same time.

Whether or not we understand black matteris not evidence for God. It’s hilarious.

It’s like saying because we didnt understand gravity before newton, it means god exist.

Workch:
I’m not wrong because you said I’m wrong.

That’s also a fallacy.

Saying God exist because we don’t understand dark energy yet is faulty equivalence and appeal to ignorance at the this same time.

Whether or not we understand black matteris not evidence for God. It’s hilarious.

It’s like saying because we don’t understand gravity before newton, it means god exist.

Refer to LordReed. The fallacy equivalence has been trashed too.

needanswer:


Let me just help you out with the import of my post because many atheist struggled to understand it. It is as follows below:

To be concise, I am saying for a fact: Science accepts as facts what can be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED indirectly, and not just what can be SEEN or MEASURED as atheist believe.

Dark matter can be measured, that’s why we know it’s 70% of the constituent of the universe.

Why are you arguing like a kindergarten?

It’s faulty equivalence unless you want to tell us how much of universe in percentage is controled by God with measurable experiment and method which is applicable to dark energy.

needanswer:


Refer to LordReed. The fallacy equivalence has been trashed too.

It hasn’t been trashed, you are funny because you said 70% of the universe is dark matter and it can’t be measured, so how did they arrive at 70%?

Think na

needanswer:


First you need to know what the qualities are: Of all God’s wonderful qualities, four are outstanding: his power (JEREMIAH 32:17), wisdom ( PSALM 104:24), justice ( PSALM 37:28), and love (1 JOHN 4: 8 ).

These are part of his qualities that can be PERCEIVED indirectly from his creation.

So basically let's attribute the universe to god because we attribute known effects to an unknown energy called dark energy, is what you are saying?

Workch:
Dark matter can be measured, that’s why we know it’s 70% of the constituent of the universe.


Why are you arguing like a kindergarten?

It’s faulty equivalence unless you want to tell us how much of universe in percentage in controls with measurable experiment and method which is applicable to dark energy.

Dark energy has not be PROPERLY MEASURED, that is just at best a rough guess. That value can't be compared to other scientific constants, like the speed of light, the rate of acceleration due to gravity, amongst other constant, that have been arrived by instrumental testing repeatedly and methodically.

The value for Dark energy is at best a guess and not a constant. Know the difference.

needanswer:


Dark energy has not be PROPERLY MEASURED, that is just at best a rough guess. That value can't be compared to other scientific constant, like the speed of light, the rate of acceleration due to gravity, amongst other constant, that have been arrived by instrumental testing repeatedly and methodically.

The value for Dark energy is at best a guess and not a constant. Know the difference.

so how did they arrive at 70%?

I will help you see your flaws little by little

LordReed:


So basically let's attribute the universe to god because we attribute known effects to an unknown energy called dark energy, is what you are saying?

No, don't bring a comparison but follow the simple logic I put forward. Science believes that what can either be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED INDIRECTLY is real and a fact.

Roman's 1: 20 says God's qualities and his Godship can be PERCEIVED indirectly by his creation. It follow the same logic as science.

needanswer:


No, don't bring a comparison but follow the simple logic I put forward. Science believes that what can either be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED INDIRECTLY is real and a fact.

Roman's 1: 20 says God's qualities and his Godship can be PERCEIVED indirectly by his creation. It follow the same logic as science.

But we have measured dark energy to be 70% of the universe with a methodology that is verifiable, no verifiable method can test God.


It’s faulty equivalence oga, you god cannot be tested, dark energy can be tested.

needanswer:


No, don't bring a comparison but follow the simple logic I put forward. Science believes that what can either be SEEN, MEASURED or PERCEIVED INDIRECTLY is real and a fact.

Roman's 1: 20 says God's qualities and his Godship can be PERCEIVED indirectly by his creation. It follow the same logic as science.

What in the universe is indicative of this god's power?

Workch:
so how did they arrive at 70%?

I will help you see your flaws little by little

Do you know the implications when dark energy is finally understood? It might mean we would now have MULTI-UNIVERSES which will shoot the estimation of dark energy in the multi-universes to more than 99.9999999999%, but it will still be based on estimation, as nobody can travel to all the corners of the universe or if we have many universes, multi-verse!

needanswer:


Due you know the implications when dark energy is finally understood? It might mean we would now have MULTI-UNIVERSES which will shoot the estimation of dark energy in the multi-universes to more than 99.9999999999%, but it will still be based on estimation, as nobody can travel to all the corners of the universe or if we have many universes, multi-verse!

No one is talking about multiverse, straw man

Radio telescopes have become the major tool in mapping the effects of Dark Energy across the Universe, what method do you have to test your God?

Faulty equivalence

LordReed:


What in the universe is indicative of this god's power?

That's a good question. It will take me a little while to write it out, so bear with me.

Workch:
No one is talking about multiverse, straw man

Radio telescopes have become the major tool in mapping the effects of Dark Energy across the Universe, what method do you have to test your God?

Faulty equivalence

Nothing, I repeat NOTHING can DIRECTLY measure DARK ENERGY! you are the one using straw man's argument. Read up!

needanswer:


That's a good question. It will take me a little while to write it out, so bear with me.

Just give us a method that is repeatable and that will give same result every time like radio telescope for dark energy.