seunmsg:


Is Germany returning the artifacts to the Federal government of Nigeria or Edo state government?

So you see, you can be emotional all you want but the truth is Edo state government has no claim to the artifacts. They belong to the Royal palace of Benin and if the palace can’t have them, the FG is legally empowered to take possession as the sovereign government.

Edo state was not even in existence when the artifacts were stolen so why should they take possession when the rightful owner is still in existence? If the British had stolen them, would the governor of Edo state go into the palace to forcefully remove them into a private museum that he incorporated?

The oba of Benin institution was in existence when those artifacts were taken.

Nigeria as a nation was also not in existence when those artifacts were stolen.
So what is your point?

The only constant has been the oba of Benin, so maybe he should be the one to receive it.

Afam4eva:
I really don't understand why people are sentimental and bias about this issue.

It makes more sense for the Edo state Government to keep it since where the bronzes were taken are now under their jurisdiction.

The reason it should not be handed over to the Oba of Benin is because the traditional system has no recognized role under the constitution and there are no checks and balances in to check the excesses of the traditional body. For instance, what stops the present Oba from keeping those bronzes as his personal property if handed over to him.

The part in bold is absolute rubbish. What has constitutional role got to do with artifacts? The artifacts belongs to the Royal palace and should be returned to the palace. Whatever the palace decides to do with them is the business of the palace. If the artifacts were not stolen by the British, won’t they still be in the palace today?

So, if I come into your home and steal a priced painting and 50 years later decide to return the painting. Should the painting go back to your family that has no constitutional role for checks and balances or the state government?

And talking about jurisdiction, Edo state government is not a recognized sovereign government. It is only the Federal Government of Nigeria that has jurisdiction and that is why Germany will hand over the artifacts to FG and not Edo state government. Edo state is not Benin kingdom and not a sovereign state. It has absolutely no claim in this matter.

CSTRR:

The oba of Benin institution was in existence when those artifacts were taken.

Nigeria as a nation was also not in existence when those artifacts were stolen.
So what is your point?

The only constant has been the oba of Benin, so maybe he should be the one to receive it.

That is why I’m saying the palace should have them and not Edo state. Oba of Benin already issued a statement on the matter and he was very clear that if the palace can’t have them in the mean time, FG should keep them and not Edo state government. I fully alright myself with the position of the palace.

This wrong,it should be given to Benin.

Politics loading, why will Obaseki be dragging with the Oba, now he has succeeded in the FG laying claim to be the rightful owner, when in the past the Oba recieves the recovered artifacts. Obaseki should know party politics will come into play between the APC & PDP, just to spite him. Pride is the cause of this problem, trying to show the governor is more powerful than the Oba or settling a score, it is not in every situations you show ego or else you both lose. If he is settling scores with the Oba, those higher than him will also settle scores with him, especially as he is in the opposition, he forgot that part.

One4me:


So, these Fulani Criminals and their hirelings like Lying Mohammed, wants to steal the Custom and Heredity of Benin people?
The Traditionalists within the Benin Kingdom needs to lay a curse on anyone, especially Liar Mohammed, who participates in this sacrilegious attempt.
The Artefacts belong to the Benin Kingdom, that is settled so why are the Fulanis trying to steal it?

May anyone who tries to take those Artefacts, die a miserable death. Isse.

I think the oba may take the FG to court from here

Since it's now outside the Edo soil yet in Nigeria

Bigpat:
Politics loading, why will Obaseki be dragging with the Oba, now he has succeeded in the FG laying claim to be the rightful owner, when in the past the Oba recieves the recovered artifacts. Obaseki should know party politics will come into play between the APC & PDP, just to spite him. Pride is the cause of this problem, trying to show the governor is more powerful than the Oba or settling a score, it is not in every situations you show ego or else you both lose.

if he was wise he could Atleast have pretended as if he has agreed with the directive of the oba

So FG sends it to him and he inturn keep it for himself

Anyway he knew the oba would eventually react and the binis would see him as dragging oba privileges

That's why he tried hijacking it from FG so he can claim it was FG directive for him to keep it

Barawo FG

Mangekyo:
Obaseki Vs Oba Of Benin: FG Reveals Who Will Take Possession Of Looted Benin Bronze



Source; https://dailypost.ng/2021/07/17/obaseki-vs-oba-of-benin-fg-reveals-who-will-take-possession-of-looted-benin-bronzes/

Lie Mohammed is a great FooOoooOOOoooOOoooL

They qoute international laws when it suits them.
These never make efforts to make peaceful coexistence possible,that's why there is mistrust everywhere in the country.

The artefacts are returning to Nigeria to be locked up! How many people visit the museums in Nigeria? Because of Covid-19 and the unending insecurity, foreigners aren't visiting either.

Let those artefacts stay in Germany's museums for now, ask them to remit every month, quarterly or yearly, for both the lease and the views. We need the Euro. The remittance will at least have a dent on our balance of payment.

Judolisco:
... the pharaohs that built pyramids for themselves and kept a lot of treasures in it... A museum will fetch money for d state... Can u visit d Palace anytime u like?

Your private property should be taken from you because it would fetch money if kept elsewhere?

Afam4eva:
I really don't understand why people are sentimental and bias about this issue.

It makes more sense for the Edo state Government to keep it since where the bronzes were taken are now under their jurisdiction.

The reason it should not be handed over to the Oba of Benin is because the traditional system has no recognized role under the constitution and there are no checks and balances to check the excesses of the traditional body. For instance, what stops the present Oba from keeping those bronzes as his personal property if handed over to him.

It is The Oba's personal property. they were looted in 1887 from the Oba's palace.
is it for the government? was there a Nigerian Government in 1887?

This fg wants to collect everything
Oil,artifacts etc
...Before you know it they will giving allocation to states with Benin artifacts...
Or more preferable collect loans with it.

Zeezy81:
What is all this talk about Obaseki or the Oba getting the artifacts? This issue has a straight forward solution

Firstly, the artifacts belongs to the bini's and not the Oba. However, since this are matters of traditional arts the Oba should be the custodian. Again, if we are talking about displaying over 1000 pieces of art work, then the governor should have an input on where best to display them

Finally, I think the proper sequence is for the FG to handover the works to its native state, Edo while the governor in turn hand it over to the Oba

According to Benin laws, the Oba owns every land in Benin.
The artefacts were stolen from the palace in Benin in 1887, what's difficult in returning it to the palace.?

nextstep:


First of all, I firmly think the artifacts should be put under the custody of the Oba. However, the Oba has no legal standing on the matter, and can only get what he is given by the Nigerian State:

1. FG routinely takes the money of people who have passed away, as do most governments around the world.

2. The Kingdom of Benin was annexed by the British Empire in 1897. In other words, it ceased to exist - as in, it passed away.

3. The artifacts legally belong - unfortunately - to the inheritor of British Empire - i.e. Nigeria.

4. The last Oba of Benin Kingdom- Ovonramwen - died in 1914, but his throne was never restored to him. His son, grandson and now great-grandson, are allowed to keep their title and status as traditional rulers in modern-day Nigeria, at the pleasure of the FG. (Note the intentional use of the word allowed).

NOTE: they are called "Oba of Benin", but not "Oba of Benin Kingdom" because that kingdom no longer exists. One cannot be a kingdom unless sovereign.

It's all unfortunate and I don't like it at all, but there you are.

Mhen I don't know of other places o but in Edo, the kingdom exists and are well respected.
I could remember the revolt in 2016 when Oshomole tried to remove the Ojuromi or Uromi, the revolt the State government faced was massive
in Edo, the government doesn't make king, the gods make them.

UGBE634:
Traditional ruler of Benin kingdom, beyond Benin City

Yes, His power extends over Benin even to Ishan and Edo North.

Judolisco:
and as we speak the people are in charge of Edo State and can even take the oba to court... What ignorance have I shown please? Is the oba the one in charge of Benin or the state government ? Or you don't know the oba is jst a ceremonial king under the local government and can only appeal and not make commands... The same artefacts have been generating revenue for the whites over the years... He reach una side you people dey shout make dem Carry am go Palace... As d artefacts no dey Palace for the past 100yrs anything happen?

Ahahaha, you're Yoruba, you know nothing.

in other states, the King bows to the government, in Edo state, the government bows to the King.

HornyTave:


Yes, His power extends over Benin even to Ishan and Edo North.

Yes that's true but some persons seem not to be aware there are Benin speaking communities outside the city in Edo state. I have observed this online and offline,they don't know that there are over four hundred Bini speaking communities aside the city that is why I corrected that for education.

Bundaweber:



You think it is that easy. Let obaseki dare it and let us see the outcome

If a whole Emir of Kano can be removed, oba of Benin is not untouchable

UGBE634:
Yes that's true but some persons seem not to be aware there are Benin speaking communities outside the city in Edo state. I have observed this online and offline,they don't know that there are over four hundred Bini speaking communities aside the city that is why I corrected that for education.

Apart from the main city, there are more than 20 along Benin - Agbor road, many without Enogie. ah, it's the one I know of and I don't know many of.

HornyTave:


Apart from the main city, there are more than 20 along Benin - Agbor road, many without Enogie. ah, it's the one I know of and I don't know many of.

In and around Okada region, there are about 46. In and around Ekiadolor, about twenty.

Zeezy81:
What is all this talk about Obaseki or the Oba getting the artifacts? This issue has a straight forward solution

Firstly, the artifacts belongs to the bini's and not the Oba. However, since this are matters of traditional arts the Oba should be the custodian. Again, if we are talking about displaying over 1000 pieces of art work, then the governor should have an input on where best to display them

Finally, I think the proper sequence is for the FG to handover the works to its native state, Edo while the governor in turn hand it over to the Oba

The part in bold is false. The artifacts belongs to the Oba of Benin and not the people of Benin kingdom. They were stolen from the palace and not the houses of Benin people. Let’s stop mixing things up please.

HornyTave:


Mhen I don't know of other places o but in Edo, the kingdom exists and are well respected.
I could remember the revolt in 2016 when Oshomole tried to remove the Ojuromi or Uromi, the revolt the State government faced was massive
in Edo, the government doesn't make king, the gods make them.

You really need to learn how to read and understand. Benin kingdom headed by the Oba of Benin was a sovereign state (a country) when the looting took place. As at today, Benin kingdom as a sovereign state (a country) headed by the Oba of Benin is no longer in existence. The succeeding sovereign state is the Federal Republic of Nigeria headed by President Muhammadu Buhari.

Benin city as presently constituted is a town under the control of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. The Oba of Benin who is the traditional head of the town is subject to the control of Nigeria’s sovereignty. That is why Germany will never hand the artifacts over to the Oba because he lacks sovereignty. FG will take custody of the artifacts and I hope they can reach an agreement with the Royal palace to return them to their original home. Edo state government has absolutely no claim to the artifacts.

Afam4eva:
I really don't understand why people are sentimental and bias about this issue.

It makes more sense for the Edo state Government to keep it since where the bronzes were taken are now under their jurisdiction.

The reason it should not be handed over to the Oba of Benin is because the traditional system has no recognized role under the constitution and there are no checks and balances to check the excesses of the traditional body. For instance, what stops the present Oba from keeping those bronzes as his personal property if handed over to him.

The danger of turning the artifacts to personal property doesn't come from the Oba because the artifacts was mainly looted from the palace. Such risks comes from obaseki. This is because while his museum design is laudable, it is not meant to be financed by State government funds. Obaseki planned museum is to be financed and when completed managed by a private company registered January 2020. Nobody knows the identity of people behind this company. One of the major concern of the oba and the Binis is for the artifacts not to be hijacked by private individuals & Obaseki's cronies.
For me, the best solution would be the state govt building the museum in conjunction with the palace and creating a public trust to manage the museum & artifacts.

Coldie:

If a whole Emir of Kano can be removed, oba of Benin is not untouchable

I Won't say you are mad. Emir of Kano is Emir of Kano remove the whole, Oba of Benin is Oba of Benin

Now I know you dont get sense by EDUCATION. Anybody in his or her right being knew the traditional Ruler are the custodian of everything that has to with thier kingdom. Now Obaseki just gave dis Federal Government with no direction and sense of governance the right to take possession of what does not belong to them . Everything is just POLiTiCS for them

Afam4eva:
I really don't understand why people are sentimental and bias about this issue.

It makes more sense for the Edo state Government to keep it since where the bronzes were taken are now under their jurisdiction.

The reason it should not be handed over to the Oba of Benin is because the traditional system has no recognized role under the constitution and there are no checks and balances to check the excesses of the traditional body. For instance, what stops the present Oba from keeping those bronzes as his personal property if handed over to him.

I don't understand u pple o, the artifacts in question are traditional materials and not government property, it shud be handed over to the traditional ruler nd not government. Forget how it is kept by the Oba, its their own headache nd bizness. But let me ask u, wen the British took away dose artifacts, from whose custody did they tk it from?

This is what happens when two people who are suppose to agree has a brother or family disagree; There Belongings automatically is taken over.by outsiders..... A proverb in yoruba

HornyTave:


Apart from the main city, there are more than 20 along Benin - Agbor road, many without Enogie. ah, it's the one I know of and I don't know many of.

I just wish to point this out Hornytave. you can't pay them if you are to give each Benin speaking community in Edo south an Enogie. Some of these community Enogies have like 12 other big communities under their jurisdiction, when these communities are in crisis they go to such Enogies to preside over their issues. Enogie of Evbobanosa preside over like ten communities, the same with the Enogie of Iguobazuwa.who preside over like 12 communities. Very few Enogies preside over just one community and those communities must be populated enough and must be semi urban

HOVER206:

Don't blame Obaseki, it is the OBA

How? He could have simply supported the palace by building a state of the art museum. Make an aspect of it private sector driven to ensure accountability so that these things won’t be relooted. I think Obaseki surely didn’t manage this well.

Afam4eva:
I really don't understand why people are sentimental and bias about this issue.

It makes more sense for the Edo state Government to keep it since where the bronzes were taken are now under their jurisdiction.

The reason it should not be handed over to the Oba of Benin is because the traditional system has no recognized role under the constitution and there are no checks and balances to check the excesses of the traditional body. For instance, what stops the present Oba from keeping those bronzes as his personal property if handed over to him.

They were the private property of the Oba of Benin when they were stolen, or you didn’t read the history properly? They should simply be returned to the rightful owner.