₦airaland Forum

Olu317:
I thought your moniker "TruthV alue", actually value truth but reverse is the case. Seriously, it is unfortunate with the manner at which you guys keep fleeing after being bashed with gazzeted account ,which TAO11 and others have proven you all wrong even on this your newest diversion from the question you asked me.

Without any controversy, the King of portugal and his portuguese government durin the bilateral trade with Benin wanted to know this great Ooni, king of all kings but clearly Oba Ewaure purported intention was to exchange his farm produce for ammunition,which was not successful with his aggressive approach to acquire military warfare,until late second part of fifteen century when another Oba Bini came to power.

Having clearly, proven to you that the distance from Ughotton to Ileife is untenable for Ekaladerhan to trek to, with fairytale from e-edowarriors. It's known fact that Ogiso Owodo's only Son's descendant, served a Yoruba Prince, Oranmiyan's Son as his Olokun's chief priest in Ughotton.


Lastly, Ughotton being a Port do not show significant about inlet or the creek of being called "bight of Benin" during 1472-1506 of Portuguese . Afterall bight of Benin is from which language ? Britain of course in (1852) to declare it as her protectorate. Beside, Bini is a Yoruba name, either give or take, the reference of this name connect the name to the overlord Yorubas , who dwell in Igodomigodo as the descendants of the king of all kings.

Can you prove benin-ife relationships prior 1897.......

If you can let's begin

But in 1894 Oduduwa was a female god... Hope you're aware...

Olu317:
I thought your moniker "TruthV alue", actually value truth but reverse is the case. Seriously, it is unfortunate with the manner at which you guys keep fleeing after being bashed with gazzeted account ,which TAO11 and others have proven you all wrong even on this your newest diversion from the question you asked me.

Without any controversy, the King of portugal and his portuguese government durin the bilateral trade with Benin wanted to know this great Ooni, king of all kings but clearly Oba Ewaure purported intention was to exchange his farm produce for ammunition,which was not successful with his aggressive approach to acquire military warfare,until late second part of fifteen century when another Oba Bini came to power.

Having clearly, proven to you that the distance from Ughotton to Ileife is untenable for Ekaladerhan to trek to, with fairytale from e-edowarriors. It's known fact that Ogiso Owodo's only Son's descendant, served a Yoruba Prince, Oranmiyan's Son as his Olokun's chief priest in Ughotton.


Lastly, Ughotton being a Port do not show significant about inlet or the creek of being called "bight of Benin" during 1472-1506 of Portuguese . Afterall bight of Benin is from which language ? Britain of course in (1852) to declare it as her protectorate. Beside, Bini is a Yoruba name, either give or take, the reference of this name connect the name to the overlord Yorubas , who dwell in Igodomigodo as the descendants of the king of all kings.

There is only One King of Kings and it is Jesus Christ

Just Say Ooni was the Overlord or Pope of all Yoruba Kingdoms

gregyboy:
[s]Can you prove benin-ife relationships prior 1897.......
If you can let's begin
But in 1894 Oduduwa was a female god... Hope you're aware...[/s]

DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:

TAO11:
The fact that you believe that this screenshot refutes anything says a lot about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down its content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(C) This strange claim is found by R.C.C. Law (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(D) This scholar found that Oyo (being later imperial) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having helped to dumb-down the content of your own screenshot, I am aware that points (B), (C), & (D) may not be obvious to you from the screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where R.C.C. Law made these clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious and strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.

In sum, you have no clue what your screenshot says. And that’s due to your English comprehension issues.

Your screenshot (i.e. R.C.C. Law) confirms the general Yoruba traditions, while debunking the spurious ones which attempt to overturn it.

Why are you a serial loser?

My reply to your 2nd screenshot:

TAO11:
If I come to this world a second time, I will still choose you as my slave.

(1) First of all, it is clear from my comment that the specific point I made is about a deity Oduduwa — not the historical personage who himself was deified

(2) The word “deified”, by the way, refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.

In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.

In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.

In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized (even there) as a man, he is deified as both a male-deity & a female-deity.

Olokun is a woman historically, yet she is deified both as a male-deity and as a female-deity, in Yorubaland.

(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deity Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.

The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about history. It is not a history book at all in the first place.

Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves who were deified. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.

As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement with the point I was making.

And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:

“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”

(4) And why did this issue of deities come up in the first place?

It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.

In one of his introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ one version of the story to another.

It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al. as deities featuring in the story about Yoruba deities or heavenly beings.

(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and beyond to the 1800s.

(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.

Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed to (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.

The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”.

In other words, a deity Odua (whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified) is the only relevant point of reference as far as this non-history book is concerned.

In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:

“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”

Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.

My reply to your 3rd screenshot:

TAO11:
The opinion expressed in your 3rd screenshot is that of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.


Cc: Olu317, christistruth00

TAO11:
DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:



My reply to your 2nd screenshot:



The opinion expressed in your 3rd screenshot is that of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.


Cc: Olu317, christistruth00

Can you prove benin-ife relationships prior 1897.......
If you can let's begin
But in 1894 Oduduwa was a female god... Hope you're aware...

gregyboy:
[s]Can you prove benin-ife relationships prior 1897.......If you can let's begin But in 1894 Oduduwa was a female god... Hope you're aware...[/s]

DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:

TAO11:
The fact that you believe that this screenshot refutes anything says a lot about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down its content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(C) This strange claim is found by R.C.C. Law (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(D) This scholar found that Oyo (being later imperial) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having helped to dumb-down the content of your own screenshot, I am aware that points (B), (C), & (D) may not be obvious to you from the screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where R.C.C. Law made these clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious and strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.

In sum, you have no clue what your screenshot says. And that’s due to your English comprehension issues.

Your screenshot (i.e. R.C.C. Law) confirms the general Yoruba traditions, while debunking the spurious ones which attempt to overturn it.

Why are you a serial loser?

My reply to your 2nd screenshot:

TAO11:
The opinion expressed in your screenshot here is that of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

My reply to your 3rd screenshot:

TAO11:
If I come to this world a second time, I will still choose you as my slave.

(1) First of all, it is clear from my comment that the specific point I made is about a deity Oduduwa — not the historical personage who himself was deified

(2) The word “deified”, by the way, refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.

In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.

In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.

In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized (even there) as a man, he is deified as both a male-deity & a female-deity.

Olokun is a woman historically, yet she is deified both as a male-deity and as a female-deity, in Yorubaland.

(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deity Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.

The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about history. It is not a history book at all in the first place.

Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves who were deified. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.

As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement with the point I was making.

And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:

“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”

(4) And why did this issue of deities come up in the first place?

It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.

In one of his introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ one version of the story to another.

It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al. as deities featuring in the story about Yoruba deities or heavenly beings.

(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and beyond to the 1800s.

(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.

Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed to (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.

The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”.

In other words, a deity Odua (whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified) is the only relevant point of reference as far as this non-history book is concerned.

In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:

“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”

Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.

God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.

TAO11:
DEBUNKED!


My reply to your 1st screenshot:



My reply to your 2nd screenshot:



My reply to your 3rd screenshot:


God created gregyboy so TAO11 can have someone to humiliate. In the end, you clearly have a purpose in life.


Cc: Olu317, christistruth00

God also Created Gregboy and his band of History Revisionists so we could learn how to Search carefully and diligently to uncover the Truth and finally Ram it down their lying throats till they learn to digest It no matter how unpalatable they find it

It is only the Truth that can knock them out though it tastes like Hemlock to them

Christistruth00:
There is only One King of Kings and it is Jesus Christ

Just Say Ooni was the Overlord or Pope of all Yoruba Kingdoms

Lol. Eshua 's of Hebrew concept is quite different from christianity concept. Anyway, King of all kings , I infer does not make reference to what you actually thought.

Mind you, the first over all Pope in Africa was the man known as "Mark"( English version), who came to Egypt and established the faith of Hebrew, both old and the new testament, during 70 C.E . And he had many leaders under him, who were lower priests in position and offices being occuped administratively

So, Ooni's position is a position that shows his kingly status as king of all kings,whether you agree or not with it. The reason being that every king who believed beaded crown identity that came from ileife, as his relative as well as being the representative of divine kingship associated to Eledumare via Odua dynasty, such remains ,under him as king of all kings, as the head of all kings in Yoruba land and affiliated kingdoms or people across the globe.

Christistruth00:
God also Created Gregboy and his band of History Revisionists so we could learn how to Search carefully and diligently to uncover the Truth and finally Ram it down their lying throats till they learn to digest It no matter how unpalatable they find it

It is only the Truth that can knock them out though it tastes like Hemlock to them

The truth that Oduduwa was a lady in 1894 and became a man king 1897..lol..
You lots are just fucking history grabbers

The Yoruba history is full of cowardice having benin history makes it look presentable

The biggest question you yoruba have failed to answer is...


Provide evidence either archeological or written documents of benin-ife relationships from inception till 1897...

Tao11, i know you will present the works of a scholar from 1920 who according to you has now identified ooni of ife as oghnene n uhe, lol you will be punished if you present it...

And if you attempt to bring those benin artefacts that was not found in the palace of ooni you will prove it with your sweat.....bloody lion

gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
Sewgon79
lx3as
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun
Christistruth00




Anyway am waiting for you.... Tao11...

These days you reply me and i dont get notified, i have to go manually to see it, i know is your handwork anyway to swoop in lies when am unaware.... I will always check...

Gregyboy and Samuk:

This is from a book which was published in 1887. It was written by a french person who was on a trip to the land of the jebu. He counts what an eyewitness told him about how the burial of the Oba of Benin takes place. (In Benin city)
Benin is referred to as Ouéni in the book.
I will give you guys the book, I have just changed my screenshot to a much smaller one, the reason is that the description was very graphic.

gregyboy:
[s]The truth that Oduduwa was a lady in 1894 and became a man king 1897..lol..You lots are just fucking history grabbers The Yoruba history is full of cowardice having benin history makes it look presentableThe biggest question you yoruba have failed to answer is...Provide evidence either archeological or written documents of benin-ife relationships from inception till 1897 i know you will present the works of scholar from 1920 who according to you has now identified ooni of ife as oghnene n uhe, lol you will be punished if you present it... And if you attempt to bring those benin artefacts that was not found in the palace of ooni you will prove it with your sweat bloody lionAnyway am waiting for you.... Tao11... These days you reply me and i dont get notified, i have to go manually to see it, i know is your handwork anyway to swoop in lies when am unaware.... I will always check...[/s]

You’re already feeling the TAO syndrome.

Once I humiliate you, you must lose shame & come back for more. You’re a disgrace anyways.

See links below for a reminder of your disgrace:

(A)https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/18#104637948 (Refer to the 2nd segment of the comment here).


(B)https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/17#104617191

I will only retype/copy&paste the punishment (i.e. the comment in full) if you go crazy on anew page.


Cc: christistruth00

Truthvalue:
Gregyboy and Samuk:

My slaves?

[s]This is from a book which was published in 1887.[/s]

False! It was published in 1880.

You’re trying too hard to make the FrEnCh BoOk hard to find.

You’re dead-scared that I would humiliate you & your folks with some damaging information in the book.

[s]was written by a french person who was on a trip to the land of the jebu.[/s]

Written by Louis Jacolliot who was on a trip to Ijebu, Borgu, Niger.

He counts what an eyewitness told him

Eyewitness? LMAO!

Where in the book is it said that the native informant is an eyewitness to a Benin king’s burial?

Anyways, it makes zero difference if Ourano (or anyone else for that matter) was an eyewitness as will be shown below. Baldie, be reducing you lie oo.

[s]…about how the burial of the Oba of Benin takes place. (In Benin city)[/s]

What you attached reads in context in the original as follows:

“Des que le roi est déposé dans la terre, on égorge sur sa tombé ses ministres, les serviteurs attaché à sa personne et toutes ses femmes. Cette coutume qui existe depuis un temps immémorial. est consacrée par la tradition.”

~ L. Jacolliot, “Voyage Aux Pays Mystérieux,” 1880, p. 46.

The foregoing reads in English as follows:

“As soon as the king is placed in the earth, his ministers, his servants and all his wives are slaughtered on his grave. This custom that has existed since time immemorial is consecrated by tradition.”

~ L. Jacolliot, “Voyage Aux Pays Mystérieux,” 1880, p. 46.

On the presumption that this took place in Benin, it is impossible still that any sane human being would see a conflict between this (on one hand), and the more detailed account recorded by Chief J. U. Egharevba as collected from Oba Akenzua 2’s court (on the other hand).

“The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign.”

~ J. U. Egharevba, “Benin Law and Custom,” CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946, p.72.

You Binis are clearly a disgrace. And a slave (I almost forgot).

[s]Benin is referred to as Ouéni in the book.[/s]

Benin is referred to as “Bênin”, “Bénin” in the book.

The name “Ouéni” is also mentioned in the book but it is only arguably in reference to Benin, and arguably not in reference to Benin.

[s]I will give you guys the book, I have just changed my screenshot to a much smaller one, the reason is that the description was very graphic.[/s]

I have the book. I already quoted the part you removed.

In fact, if I get angry I will post the page (p. 45.) which shows that the king is not indigenous to your land.

TAO11:
My slaves?

False! It was published in 1880.

You’re trying too hard to make the FrEnCh BoOk hard flit find.

You’re dead-scared that I would humiliate you & your folks with some damaging information in the book.

Written by Louis Jacolliot who was on a trip to Ijebu, Borgu, Niger.

Eyewitness? LMAO!

Where in the book is it said that the native informant is an eyewitness to a Benin king’s burial?

Anyways, it makes zero difference if Ourano (or anyone else for that matter) was an eyewitness as will be shown below. Baldie, be reducing you lie oo.

What you attached reads in context in the original as follows:

“Des que le roi est déposé dans la terre, on égorge sur sa tombé ses ministres, les serviteurs attaché à sa personne et toutes ses femmes. Cette coutume qui existe depuis un temps immémorial. est consacrée par la tradition.” ~ L. Jacolliot, “Voyage Aux Pays Mystérieux,” 1880, p. 46.

Which in English read as follows:

“As soon as the king is placed in the earth, his ministers, his servants and all his wives are slaughtered on his grave. This custom that has existed since time immemorial is consecrated by tradition.”

On the presumption that this took place in Benin, it is impossible still that any sane human being would see a conflict between this (on one hand), and the more detailed account recorded by Chief J. U. Egharevba as collected from Oba Akenzua 2’s.

“The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was done in every third reign.” ~ J. U. Egharevba, “Benin Law and Custom,” CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt, 1946, p.72.

You Binis are clearly a disgrace. And a slave (I almost forgot).

Benin is referred to as Ouéni in the book. Benin is referred to as “Bênin”, “Bénin” in the book.

The name “Ouéni” is mentioned in the book but it is only arguably in reference to Benin, and arguably not in reference to Benin.

I will give you guys the book, I have just changed my screenshot to a much smaller one, the reason is that the description was very graphic. I have the book. I already quoted the part you removed.

In fact, if I get angry I will post the preceding page (p. 45.) which interestingly proves that the Oba of Benin is not indigenous to your land.

Now who told you the account was collected by egharevba didnt we also agree any local author shouldnt be refrence.... Before your brothers will start shouting... Edo blog.. Including you...

Ooh when it suites you began to quote.. Lol should would now bring the egharevba books that now agrees the ooni is a son of benin...
To torment your lies


This very french quote was not only misquoted
By egharevba, but he is also a local historian, which we agreed never to quote...


Again lets leave that aside... The said Oduduwa was a female in 1894 and became a man in 1897 is the gods not wonderful


The ooni of ife was an invention of Samuel johson in his book the history of yorubas,


My three screenshot explains everything
Prior to 1897 before the destruction of benin there was never a relationship between benin and ife or ooni, not even written by the europeans or documented by the benins themselves


The benins used artworks as a means of documentation.... After the collapse of the empire in 1897 and emerging country was being born called Nigeria the oba was exiled to calabar.. And his tool was vacant his son took over after his death in 1914 and had to rebuilt the destroyed city consumed of her war with the britsh....
He made political advancement towards the yorubas who had already organize themselves into one ancestory for political empowerment
This was a period was still in use of indirect rule were the kings served as puppet to the britsh government so the powers was indirectly willed to the kings, and oba Eweka11
Sort a unification of both the edo and the yoruba tribe for political strength for the edos... And the yoruba king the ooni agreed for this unification of both tribe and a myth of how Benin was their son was forged to seal the unionship.... Everything went well until the oba died and his son who took over didnt like how the edos were treated by the yorubas overriding on benin history completely.. And the constant tribal assault made by the yorubas against the benins telling them they werent yorubas that the oba couldn't even understand or speak the yoruba language, and yet he wasnt willing to learn, and so many complains insisting the oba of benin was nit yoruba and shouldn't be headibg a 3rd pistion in the yoruba hierarchy of kingship, this made oba akenzua to pull out of the westen region in 1963...

Tao11 on the otherhand is an obsessed demented yoruba lady.. I will call her a troll she is unhappy the way benins pride themselves in their prehistory over the rulership of the yorubas particularly her own people the aworis of lagos in other to get back
She is dwelling on the myth which benins frowns out, the myth that was made up in 1914 which made a unification of both yorubas and benins.... We have constantly let her know.. She should give up.. But she rather
Dwell on materials after the myth was made as her backup...
If you ask her on evidence prior to the collapse of the empire in 1897 she will be completely go dumbfounded and find a sneaky way to bypass it....

gregyboy:
[s]Now who told you the account was collected by egharevba didnt we also agree any local author shouldnt be refrence.... Before your brothers will start shouting... Edo blog.. Including you... Ooh when it suites you began to quote.. Lol should would now bring the egharevba books that now agrees the ooni is a son of benin...To torment your lies This very french quote was not only misquotedBy egharevba, but he is also a local historian, which we agreed never to quote... Again lets leave that aside... The said Oduduwa was a female in 1894 and became a man in 1897 is the gods not wonderful The ooni of ife was an invention of Samuel johson in his book the history of yorubas, My three screenshot explains everything Prior to 1897 before the destruction of benin there was never a relationship between benin and ife or ooni, not even written by the europeans or documented by the benins themselves The benins used artworks as a means of documentation.... After the collapse of the empire in 1897 and emerging country was being born called Nigeria the oba was exiled to calabar.. And his tool was vacant his son took over after his death in 1914 and had to rebuilt the destroyed city consumed of her war with the britsh....
He made political advancement towards the yorubas who had already organize themselves into one ancestory for political empowerment
This was a period was still in use of indirect rule were the kings served as puppet to the britsh government so the powers was indirectly willed to the kings, and oba Eweka11 Sort a unification of both the edo and the yoruba tribe for political strength for the edos... And the yoruba king the ooni agreed for this unification of both tribe and a myth of how Benin was their son was forged to seal the unionship.... Everything went well until the oba died and his son who took over didnt like how the edos were treated by the yorubas overriding on benin history completely.. And the constant tribal assault made by the yorubas against the benins telling them they werent yorubas that the oba couldn't even understand or speak the yoruba language, and yet he wasnt willing to learn, and so many complains insisting the oba of benin was nit yoruba and shouldn't be headibg a 3rd pistion in the yoruba hierarchy of kingship, this made oba akenzua to pull out of the westen region in 1963...Tao11 on the otherhand is an obsessed demented yoruba lady.. I will call her a troll she is unhappy the way benins pride themselves in their prehistory over the rulership of the yorubas particularly her own people the aworis of lagos in other to get back
She is dwelling on the myth which benins frowns out, the myth that was made up in 1914 which made a unification of both yorubas and benins.... We have constantly let her know.. She should give up.. But she rather Dwell on materials after the myth was made as her backup... If you ask her on evidence prior to the collapse of the empire in 1897 she will be completely go dumbfounded and find a sneaky way to bypass it[/s]

What a heap of rubbish!?

Slave, you’ve been debunked. Let your parents talk to me.


My reply to your 1st screenshot:

TAO11:
(1) First of all, it is clear from my comment that the specific point I made is about a deity Oduduwa — not the historical personage who himself was deified

(2) The word “deified”, by the way, refers to the idea of elevating a human to the status of a deity usually after such person has passed on.

In such cases, the human-gender doesn’t necessarily determine the deity-gender.

In other words, a historical man may be admitted into a pantheon as a male deity, or a female deity, or as both.

In Benin kingdom for example, despite the historical Oduduwa being recognized (even there) as a man, he is deified as both a male-deity & a female-deity.

Olokun is a woman historically, yet she is deified both as a male-deity and as a female-deity, in Yorubaland.

(3) Your screenshot (which reference I provided) is on a deity Oduduwa, in the specific context of religion.

The title of the book makes it clear that it is not about history. It is not a history book at all in the first place.

Moreover, the chapter’s title also makes it specifically clear that it is about divinities not the actual humans themselves who were deified. The chapter’s title reads as “CHIEF GODS”.

As such, the reference I gave to a non-history book is in agreement with the point I was making.

And the point I was making on that thread, quoting word-for-word, is that:

“And there are books on the Yoruba people’s religion, etc. (published before Johnson’s history) which shows the name Oduduwa as one of these heavenly deities. See A.B. Ellis (1894).”

(4) And why did this issue of deities come up in the first place?

It came up because Crowther didn’t write about Ife’s history — being that he is a linguist and as such is concerned with grammar books, etc. — but at times devotes very minuscule pages to accounts of some stories/histories in the introductory remarks.

In one of his introductory remarks, he touched on the story of creation at Ife, which features heavenly beings — not historical beings — whose names differ one version of the story to another.

It was in this context (i.e. the context of deities) that I cited Oturupon-Wonifa as well as A.B. Ellis (1894) for the names Oduduwa, et al. as deities featuring in the story about Yoruba deities or heavenly beings.

(5) Johnson’s later work, on the other hand, is a work on history (a comprehensive one at that), and as such covers the history of the Yorubas from the beginning to the king-Oduduwa period and beyond to the 1800s.

(6) In sum, the issue of omission does not come up in the case of Crowther because his grammar work (with some accounts) is not intended to (and did not) cover all the way up to the king-Oduduwa period.

Similarly, A. B. Ellis’ work (which focuses on religion, etc.) is obviously not a history book, and as such is not supposed to (and did not) cover anything about king Oduduwa.

The specific mention of Odua in this work was clearly shown under the chapter entitled “CHIEF GODS”.

In other words, a deity Odua (whose gender doesn’t necessarily follow that of the actual human who was deified) is the only relevant point of reference as far as this non-history book is concerned.

In recognition of this unique gender-phenomenon in the deification of Yoruba personages, R. F. Burton in his 1863 publication writes in the * footnote of page 186 as follows:

“The fact that this deity is male, female, and hermaphrodite, is a fair specimen of pagan vagueness.”

Moreover, I have also alluded already to the kingdom of Benin where king-Oduduwa is of course known to have been a man, but is in the same breath deified as both a male deity, and a female deity.

My reply to your 2nd screenshot:

TAO11:
The fact that you believe that this screenshot refutes anything says a lot about your grasp of English.

To help your life, I will dumb-down its content:

(A) The general Yoruba tradition is that they and their kings trace back to king Oduduwa of Ife.

(B) There is at least one of these kingdoms (i.e. Oyo) which has something quite strange to say.

(C) This strange claim is found by R.C.C. Law (whose screenshot you attached) to be a latter claim which Oyo itself didn’t have/belief ab-initio.

(D) This scholar found that Oyo (being later imperial) then came up with this for propaganda of superiority over its father-Ife.

Having helped to dumb-down the content of your own screenshot, I am aware that points (B), (C), & (D) may not be obvious to you from the screenshot.

As such, I will cite the specific passages from the same material where R.C.C. Law made these clear.

R.C.C. Law writes, while debunking the spurious and strange one-off accounts which intends to challenge the Ooni’s superiority as follows:

“Certain traditions relating to the ancestry of the Oni of Ife appear to have been devised specifically in order to counter the Oni's very plausible claim to paramount status. ... This denial of true royal ancestry to the Oni of Ife offered an opportunity for other kings to claim for themselves primacy of status among the descendants of Oduduwa.”
~ Page 212.


Moreover, after combing through the evidences, R. C. C. Law then summarizes his find on the last page as follows:

“SUMMARY
••• The article considers the political implications of the Yoruba traditions of origin, and seeks to relate the existence of certain variants of the tradition to the use of it for purposes of political propaganda. In particular, it is suggested that the tradition was manipulated and modified in an attempt to support the claims to paramountcy of the king of Oyo, when this kingdom became the most powerful state in the Yoruba area during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries•••”.
~ Page 224.

In sum, you have no clue what your screenshot says. And that’s due to your English comprehension issues.

Your screenshot (i.e. R.C.C. Law) confirms the general Yoruba traditions, while debunking the spurious ones which attempt to overturn it.

Why are you a serial loser?

My reply to your 3rd screenshot:

TAO11:
The opinion expressed in your 3rd screenshot is that of a certain Ryder from the year 1965.

Guess what has happened between 1965 and 2021 in the field of historical scholarship of African history.

The field of historical scholarship of African history has unanimously debunked that opinion from Ryder.

See for example:

A. Akinjogbin (1967), F. Willett (1973), R. C. C. Law (1973), R. Horton (1979), A. Obayemi (1980), R. Smith (1988), B. Adediran (1991), D. Bondarenko (2003), S. A. Akintoye (2010), A. Ogundiran (2020), et al.

A summary of this unanimous conclusion of scholars is aptly put in a 2016 publication as attached below in the screenshot below.

Again, you’ve tried. Let your parents talk to me.

gregyboy:
Now who told you the account was collected by egharevba didnt we also agree any local author shouldnt be refrence.... Before your brothers will start shouting... Edo blog.. Including you...

Ooh when it suites you began to quote.. Lol should would now bring the egharevba books that now agrees the ooni is a son of benin...
To torment your lies


This very french quote was not only misquoted
By egharevba, but he is also a local historian, which we agreed never to quote...


Again lets leave that aside... The said Oduduwa was a female in 1894 and became a man in 1897 is the gods not wonderful


The ooni of ife was an invention of Samuel johson in his book the history of yorubas,


My three screenshot explains everything
Prior to 1897 before the destruction of benin there was never a relationship between benin and ife or ooni, not even written by the europeans or documented by the benins themselves


The benins used artworks as a means of documentation.... After the collapse of the empire in 1897 and emerging country was being born called Nigeria the oba was exiled to calabar.. And his tool was vacant his son took over after his death in 1914 and had to rebuilt the destroyed city consumed of her war with the britsh....
He made political advancement towards the yorubas who had already organize themselves into one ancestory for political empowerment
This was a period was still in use of indirect rule were the kings served as puppet to the britsh government so the powers was indirectly willed to the kings, and oba Eweka11
Sort a unification of both the edo and the yoruba tribe for political strength for the edos... And the yoruba king the ooni agreed for this unification of both tribe and a myth of how Benin was their son was forged to seal the unionship.... Everything went well until the oba died and his son who took over didnt like how the edos were treated by the yorubas overriding on benin history completely.. And the constant tribal assault made by the yorubas against the benins telling them they werent yorubas that the oba couldn't even understand or speak the yoruba language, and yet he wasnt willing to learn, and so many complains insisting the oba of benin was nit yoruba and shouldn't be headibg a 3rd pistion in the yoruba hierarchy of kingship, this made oba akenzua to pull out of the westen region in 1963...

Tao11 on the otherhand is an obsessed demented yoruba lady.. I will call her a troll she is unhappy the way benins pride themselves in their prehistory over the rulership of the yorubas particularly her own people the aworis of lagos in other to get back
She is dwelling on the myth which benins frowns out, the myth that was made up in 1914 which made a unification of both yorubas and benins.... We have constantly let her know.. She should give up.. But she rather
Dwell on materials after the myth was made as her backup...
If you ask her on evidence prior to the collapse of the empire in 1897 she will be completely go dumbfounded and find a sneaky way to bypass it....

This R.C.C guy is smart, I always thought I were the only person to spot the parrallels between the yoruba story and the Greek history, starting with the notion of city states. It is obvious that the inventor of the yoruba stories which some call "yoruba history" studied the history of Greece and copied that history.

The thing is the first educated black people in the region (except the medieval Oba of Benin who studied in portugal) were the slaves being dumped on our shores, nobody else knew the greek history or had any book based education. The slaves took advantage of that and created themselves a tribe: yoruba is it's name o. They invented all sorts of stories and took avantage of the people indigenous to the land.

TAO11:
My slaves?

Seun, Mynd44, rule 2

Truthvalue:
This R.C.C guy is smart, I always thought I were the only person to spot the parrallels between the yoruba story and the Greek history, starting with the notion of city states. It is obvious that the inventor of the yoruba stories which some call "yoruba history" studied the history of Greece and copied that history.

Am still trying to figure out the source of the yoruba myth... I urge you to same... Am still trying to figure it out...

But there is really no time to go in fully into the research... If you have a spare time i would love to urge you to go into it too,


I wanted to use her as a bait to my research but she is too slow, tho she has helped but its really not fast enough...

TAO11:
You’re already feeling the TAO syndrome.

Once I humiliate you, you must lose shame & come back for more. You’re a disgrace anyways.

See links below for a reminder of your disgrace:

(A)https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/18#104637948 (Refer to the 2nd segment of the comment here).


(B)https://www.nairaland.com/6482972/name-lagos-called-ekonunuame-benins/17#104617191

I will only retype/copy&paste the punishment (i.e. the comment in full) if you go crazy on anew page.


Cc: christistruth00

Oduduwa deifyed as a lady in 1894 and a man in 1897 you think everyone is a transgender Oduduwa was mainly an idol thats why they mistook him as both male and female
And Samuel johson was the one who introduced Oduduwa as a man king in ife

Ife was use a place for Oduduwa because ife already had a religious attribute to the oyos and not necessarily the entire yoruba people
Anyother places could have been used but because of ife religious reverence he decided to make ife the home place of his fictious history

Prove me wrong....

Olu317:
1.There is an account of Ubinu kingdom, being visited by the first of Portuguese in 1472 during the late era of Oba Ewaure. The portuguese explorer's name was Ruy De Sequeira

2. Ruy De Sequeira Ruy De Sequeira did not have the opportunity to enter Bini via Ughotton because that was the period that the Bini King Ewaure was reorganising the kingdom. Although the gathered information about Bini before left back to Portugal, according to Antonio Galvao's account

3. According to eyewitness account, Ughotton, was established by Ekaladerhan in 11 century, the Ogiso Owodo's only son. Interestingly, it was around 1170 AD, after Ekaladerhan had been chased away that Oranmiyan arrived from Yoruba land of Ileife to Igodo.

4. During the era of Oba Ozolua, whose predecessor was oba Ewaure, the Portuguese explorer Jaoa D'Aveiro arrived Bini and he met Ohen Okun descendant of Ekaladerhan), who was the chief head of Ughotton and the chief worshipper of Olokun.

5. Joao D'Aveiro and Ohen okun travelled to portugual on the sanction of Oba Ewaure and the new king of Portugal who was crowned King in 1481.

5. The visit went as agreed upon and bilateral relationship was established in this era around 1485-1506 .

6. These crew with emissary of Oba Bini ,who was Ohen Okun went from Ughotton. This land of Ughotton lies in around 42 kilometers southeast to Bini. Below screenshot shows Ughotton and Ileife



6. It was this relationship that brought about the lengendary Ooni of Ileife, which asserts, to the east of Beny(Bini)kingdom about twenty moon's journey(about 250 leagues),there lived, the most powerful monarch of these part called Igane(oghene/ooni).Among the pagan chiefs, of these territories of Beny (Bini) . He Oghene (Ooni) is held in as a great veneration as supreme pontiff with us .

a. " De Barros Da Asia,First Decade Book iii. Crone(1937)pp126-7 as cited by Hodgins,T(1975) Nigeria perspectives, 2nd Edition(O.U.P)p. 124."

b. "The relationship between Benin and Portuguese Relation:Ughotton as a port :1485-1506 by Michael Ediagbonya."

[s]The above info rmation clearly state the superiority of Ooni over Oba Bini. Infact there is also a ritual link between Bini and Ileife, which shows Ooni as a father of all kings associated with Ileife,included Bini kingdom. So, Ekaladerhan was never never odudaiwa Olofin and he did not near anywhere called Ileife in his lifetime[/s].

First of all the account of the establishment of ughton was collected in 1906
And had nothing relating to ile ife or Oromiyan or Oduduwa

It stated that a prince of benin left to establish ughton... Who was fleeing is father wrought

Again they are so many prince's of benin, enogie sons are called prince, the oba sons are
Called prince's

The account never mentioned if it was the oba of benin sons or an enogie son that was the prince, who founded ughton..... But it was hijacked by egharevba and misinterpreted to mean Oromiyan and Oduduwa


Again Ruy De Sequeira entered benin...
According to the histrionical document ruy de Sequeira was leaving benin when he decided to explore the coast of Lago...

And ewuare had died centuries before the Portuguese step foot on Benin


See why not join the history reading rather than supporting as a troll or are you afraid you may stumble on the truth you feared to see

Truthvalue:
Gregyboy and Samuk:

This is from a book which was published in 1887. It was written by a french person who was on a trip to the land of the jebu. He counts what an eyewitness told him about how the burial of the Oba of Benin takes place. (In Benin city)
Benin is referred to as Ouéni in the book.
I will give you guys the book, I have just changed my screenshot to a much smaller one, the reason is that the description was very graphic.

Being graphic doesn't mean please post it....

And drop the link to the book to the book

Have been expecting your email i have messaged you for days now no reply


I have read a book on how the oba of benin was been buried

When the oba benin dies is servant are buried alive to accompany him to afterlife and his wives are moved to the queens mother house at uselu....

The wives are not buried with him... Just the servant...

gregyboy:
Being graphic doesn't mean please post it....

And drop the link to the book to the book

Have been expecting your email i have messaged you for days now no reply


I have read a book on how the oba of benin was been buried

When the oba benin dies is servant are buried alive to accompany him to afterlife and his wives are moved to the queens mother house at uselu....

The wives are not buried with him... Just the servant...

Sorry, I didn't see your email, I have so many email addresses for nairaland in order to not use my 3 official email addresses. I easily get confused with the non official email addresses.

Remind me the email address you sent the message to.

Gregyboy, please remind me the email address you sent the message to.

Truthvalue:
Gregyboy, please remind me the email address you sent the message to.

johnsheppard515@yahoo.com

Hope i can send email from Gmail to yahoo

gregyboy:
johnsheppard515@yahoo.com

Hope i can send email from Gmail to yahoo

Ok, I have seen your message and sent you the book.
I sent a second message containing a link to the book from the website hosting it.

gregyboy:
Being graphic doesn't mean please post it....

And drop the link to the book to the book

Have been expecting your email i have messaged you for days now no reply


I have read a book on how the oba of benin was been buried

When the oba benin dies is servant are buried alive to accompany him to afterlife and his wives are moved to the queens mother house at uselu....

The wives are not buried with him... Just the servant...

In this book, it says wives and ministers were killed on the spot as soon as the king was buried. It also says the costum was not unique to Benin, that is was widely practised in Africa.

The idea in this practice was that everybody in these high positions would never attempt on the life of the king and would do anything to protect the king since their lives are attached to the King's life.

They also talk about how the ditches around the palace would be filled with the blood of newly executed slaves during the burial of the king.

Anyways, it is quite clear that the king was buried in Benin city, either in his very large palace, either around the palace. Eventhough this was obvious from the start. There is no case spotted in Africa of dead kings being transported to a foreign land for burial. And ife was a land foreign to Benin empire.

gregyboy:
First of all the account of the establishment of ughton was collected in 1906
And had nothing relating to ile ife or Oromiyan or Oduduwa

It stated that a prince of benin left to establish ughton... Who was fleeing is father wrought

Again they are so many prince's of benin, enogie sons are called prince, the oba sons are
Called prince's

The account never mentioned if it was the oba of benin sons or an enogie son that was the prince, who founded ughton..... But it was hijacked by egharevba and misinterpreted to mean Oromiyan and Oduduwa


Again Ruy De Sequeira entered benin...
According to the histrionical document ruy de Sequeira was leaving benin when he decided to explore the coast of Lago...

And ewuare had died centuries before the Portuguese step foot on Benin


See why not join the history reading rather than supporting as a troll or are you afraid you may stumble on the truth you feared to see

Lol. I do not have strength to engage you on literarily issue that has been trashed by people in Ughotton who are descendants of Oken Okun , the descendants of Ekalardan, who descended from Ogiso lineage. The direct and only son of Ogiso Owodo.

Infact, TAO11, has covered this part of the story, of oduduwa personality beyond reasonable doubt , as his warrior descendant odẹdè ọranmiyan arrived your ancestors land Igodo in grand style and overthrew the ogiso dynasty to turn it to his ancestor's o bà . So , no need for me to overstretch myself.



cheers

Olu317:
Lol. I do not have strength to engage you on literarily issue that has been trashed by people in Ughotton who are descendants of Oken Okun , the descendants of Ekalardan, who descended from Ogiso lineage. The direct and only son of Ogiso Owodo.

Infact, TAO11, has covered this part of the story, of oduduwa personality beyond reasonable doubt , as his warrior descendant odẹdè ọranmiyan arrived your ancestors land Igodo in grand style and overthrew the ogiso dynasty to turn it to his ancestor's o bà . So , no need for me to overstretch myself.



cheers

Be the first to see this

Truthvalue:
In this book, it says wives and ministers were killed on the spot as soon as the king was buried. It also says the costum was not unique to Benin, that is was widely practised in Africa.

The idea in this practice was that everybody in these high positions would never attempt on the life of the king and would do anything to protect the king since their lives are attached to the King's life.

They also talk about how the ditches around the palace would be filled with the blood of newly executed slaves during the burial of the king.

Anyways, it is quite clear that the king was buried in Benin city, either in his very large palace, either around the palace. Eventhough this was obvious from the start. There is no case spotted in Africa of dead kings being transported to a foreign land for burial. And ife was a land foreign to Benin empire.

Ooh, ok... I will believe that, the benin bury thier dead in pit.... Holes so it is possible bodies were throne to the benin moats

Buy the execution of wives along with the dead oba could also be possible too be that the benins believe the oba needed assistance to the afterlife...

But am very sure of the slaves that were buried alive with the oba the wives could be his favourite wives but again there is a degree of doubt on the killing of the wives
If you read the benin local stories, histories like queen idah, the mother of esigie.. They weren't buried with their husband but were alive to see their children become kings

Or it could also be some of this wives choosed to be buried with the oba ( husband) and not necessarily custom demanded


Thanks for the document, we have unfolded benin history more than any person since the collapse of the empire one moment you will think you have exhausted benin history and before you know it you will stumble on another...

gregyboy:
Ooh, ok... I will believe that, the benin bury thier dead in pit.... Holes so it is possible bodies were throne to the benin moats

Buy the execution of wives along with the dead oba could also be possible too be that the benins believe the oba needed assistance to the afterlife...

But am very sure of the slaves that were buried alive with the oba the wives could be his favourite wives but again there is a degree of doubt on the killing of the wives
If you read the benin local stories, histories like queen idah, the mother of esigie.. They weren't buried with their husband but were alive to see their children become kings

Or it could also be some of this wives choosed to be buried with the oba ( husband) and not necessarily custom demanded


Thanks for the document, we have unfolded benin history more than any person since the collapse of the empire one moment you will think you have exhausted benin history and before you know it you will stumble on another...

I think the story about the Iyoba might be badly interpreted. For example, did you notice that Oba Ovonramwen was quite young and newly crowned when he fought the british and lost the war against britain. Notice no mention of Oba Ovonramwen's mother or step mothers anywhere at all, no picture of them neither.

It is possible that the Iyoba is actually just the immortalisation of the Oba's mother.

Something makes me think some of the Edo traitors who helped the british might have been Edo nobles who were supposed to be executed after the demise of Oba Ovonramwen's father.

Well, it is an old African tradition, I guess the first African king who installed this tradition did so because that way, it guaranties that nobody in the corridors of power would attempt on the life of the king and also anybody in the corridors of power would protect the king in any circomstances.
As the book says, it was common in the region.
This explains why you never hear of the mothers or step mothers of kings in the region.

Truthvalue:
I think the story about the Iyoba might be badly interpreted. For example, did you notice that Oba Ovonramwen was quite young and newly crowned when he fought the british and lost the war against britain. Notice no mention of Oba Ovonramwen's mother or step mothers anywhere at all, no picture of them neither.
It is possible that the Iyoba is actually just the immortalisation of the Oba's mother

Something makes me think some of the Edo traitors who helped the british might have been Edo nobles who were supposed to be executed after the demise of Oba Ovonramwen's father.

Please explain the bolded

And again there wasnt really betrayal just mere finger pointing and baseless allegations

Even till oba ovaramen died he never accused obaseki of betrayal


I think you need to read more.. On the event of the war

Visit my thread in the benin war with britsh and misconception i droped the link on the thread on the event of the war

Just get to read it, the Benins never betrayed the oba or benin thru fought gallantly and lost

gregyboy:
Please explain the bolded

And again there wasnt really betrayal just mere finger pointing and baseless allegations

Even till oba ovaramen died he never accused obaseki of betrayal


I think you need to read more.. On the event of the war

Visit my thread in the benin war with britsh and misconception i droped the link on the thread on the event of the war

Just get to read it, the Benins never betrayed the oba or benin thru fought gallantly and lost

Chief Obaseki is an ancestor of mine, he's my great grand father.
I am not neutral in this affair, I personally do not think he betrayed. But there is one noble whose house was the only one spared in Benin city, that guy probably betrayed. I think I saw some documents some time ago about some traitors.
Immortalisation: deitification.
Anyways, the british planned everything out: they didn't dare attack the father of Oba Ovonramwen, they waited for a newly crowned emperor to mount the throne (knowing that would be the perfect timing to attack) and they tried to attack during Igwe festival, that failed, then they came with much more reinforcements and much more firepower and it succeeded.