jedisco:
A while ago, Nigeria went borrowing via eurobonds issued between 6-9%...while this was expectedly oversubscribed, and some reasoned that this showed confidence in the market, I can't help but wonder why the rates are that high... The holders of this monies borrowed would have been forced to pay interest to banks if it sat idle in their home nations

Today, over 20% of all dollars in circulation was printed over the last 2 years and more is set to be printed out of thin air. The system is aflush with funds looking for who to lend it to... I remember stating a while back that they US and EU can afford to do that vos they know smaller nations will come begging. Already, that is happening.... Wouldn't be surprised that if the FG may need to organise free crude swaps in future to pay off these debts....

I cannot understand how an individual in the west will walk up to his bank, borrow hundreds of thousands of forex at rates well below 3% to buy a house appreciating at upto 10% per annum, yet a sovereign nation is happy to borrow such forex at 8%. Nigeria is practically giving Western lenders free cash..

This is the way I see the macro picture- an American sits in his house, prints paper outta thin air, a Nigerian goes cap in hand begging for such paper money at the expense of his natural resources and his fellow citizens are happy at being afforded such paper at cutthroat rates

Is it that the monetary system is rigged against poorer nations or poorer nations don't just understand it??

Bro, it is low self esteem, why do you think these currencies are stronger against our currency’s? Because our leaders won’t stop borrowing

CBN Printing money to finance the economy = inflation
Nigeria government borrowing money from a government printing money (free money) is = more resources on the lender part and debt from money on our part.

1)Clamp down on corruption: these parastatals in Nigeria are definitely making MOREEEEE than they remit to the government, it’s like the government is doing Charity both home and abroad, you build infrastructures and the staffs and directors in charge are the ones feeding favt on government infrastructure.

Make sure every penny being made at each parastatals in Nigeria is being remitted to the government’s coffer.

2) make sure the money earned ain’t LOOTED by the Ogas in charge of the government purse.


3) Discourage Importation and encourage Exportation, the load on dollar is too much and it is already looking like Dollar is the main currency while Naira is useless.

The government should be intentional, the government should focus the first batch of infrastructural development on making sure Nigeria is Safe for Foreigners to set up their business in Nigeria
a) the government should target the top 10 things being imported.
b) the government should cut a deal with the top companies abroad in charge of these and let come to Nigeria to set up a branch in Nigeria, that way, Nigerians will have to buy from these guys right here in Nigeria and these foreigners can easily bring in their product by exchanging the Naira earned with their Currency, or.
C) the Naira earned can be used to source the raw material needed for their brand in Nigeria, or something they can buy in Nigeria and sell in their country.

4) Encourage Exportation, this is where GROW Nigeria comes in, encourage Nigerians to set up companies and use the products that can be gotten in Nigeria to produce made in Nigeria and the government should also cut some slacks on them via lenient policies and to cut back on EFCC, police harassment.

Many more things I can’t list here.

The government can also create an agricultural reserve for livestock and plant products, prisoners are cheap labours , the government should build standard apartments on forest reserves and let the prisoners scattered all across the country to be farm workers there (free labours)
Then the government in then train those prisoners in agriculture and also pay them something monthly from the money made from the farm.

This is not a rocket science, i just listed something that can practically applicable.

This will reduce load on dollar and crude oil

jedisco:
A while ago, Nigeria went borrowing via eurobonds issued between 6-9%...while this was expectedly oversubscribed, and some reasoned that this showed confidence in the market, I can't help but wonder why the rates are that high... The holders of this monies borrowed would have been forced to pay interest to banks if it sat idle in their home nations

Today, over 20% of all dollars in circulation was printed over the last 2 years and more is set to be printed out of thin air. The system is aflush with funds looking for who to lend it to... I remember stating a while back that they US and EU can afford to do that vos they know smaller nations will come begging. Already, that is happening.... Wouldn't be surprised that if the FG may need to organise free crude swaps in future to pay off these debts....

I cannot understand how an individual in the west will walk up to his bank, borrow hundreds of thousands of forex at rates well below 3% to buy a house appreciating at upto 10% per annum, yet a sovereign nation is happy to borrow such forex at 8%. Nigeria is practically giving Western lenders free cash..

This is the way I see the macro picture- an American sits in his house, prints paper outta thin air, a Nigerian goes cap in hand begging for such paper money at the expense of his natural resources and his fellow citizens are happy at being afforded such paper at cutthroat rates

Is it that the monetary system is rigged against poorer nations or poorer nations don't just understand it??

I also think that the return rates on Nigeria's loan is too high. We should be doing circa 2-5% (US is less than 0.1).

For example: Greece, a country that defaulted on its debt 6 years ago has a return rate of of 1.1% on its 25 year bond, yet Nigeria that hasn't defaulted has 9% for similar period. No be juju be that? Free money and that's why its being over-subscribed.

Please I need help how can withdraw my money in Skrill to my bank account

Can be viewed as such I imagine. But from my experience a lot of African governments and nations do understand how modern monetary systems work. However, because they are motivated by ill gotten gains & rent seeking (corruption) they choose to kick the can down the road by borrowing more. Stupidly they do not realize it will backfire in future... Even if they japa out of the country with the ill gotten gains, it catches up with them (Ibori, Diezani etc). Life is truly simple, many idiots just choose to make it complicated for themselves and make other innocent hard working peolple victims.

jedisco:
Alot of African nations fail to understand how the modern monetary system works....hence they are at the bottom of it...
Sadly its a system that if you're not at the top, then you're at the bottom and being ripped off... Modern colonisation all over again

emmanuelewumi:
With your Eurobond funds and other mutual fund investments with United Capital, you can get loans up to a maximum of N100 million

Great, @ what percentage do they give the loan? I'm looking forward to getting a 10m facility from them. I will be switching my mutual funds account from stanbic to them as stanbic rates seems mockery these days

Olaide1295:


I also think that the return rates on Nigeria's loan is too high. We should be doing circa 2-5% (US is less than 0.1).

For example: Greece, a country that defaulted on its debt 6 years ago has a return rate of of 1.1% on its 25 year bond, yet Nigeria that hasn't defaulted has 9% for similar period. No be juju be that? Free money and that's why its being over-subscribed.

It's exorbitantly high... we're practically gifting them free cash....
Worse still, those issuing such will come and tell us that being oversubscribed is a sign of confidence in the market... Just imagine... If anything, borrowing at such rate, shows how shaky the economy is.... Economic gaffes like this enslaven citizens yet unborn
I wonder how a nation eith an economic growth rate of less than 2% will comfortably pay back a loan of 8%

The worrying question is now how will Nigeria pay these loans back

skydiver01:
Can be viewed as such I imagine. But from my experience a lot of African governments and nations do understand how modern monetary systems work. However, because they are motivated by ill gotten gains & rent seeking (corruption) they choose to kick the can down the road by borrowing more. Stupidly they do not realize it will backfire in future... Even if they japa out of the country with the ill gotten gains, it catches up with them (Ibori, Diezani etc). Life is truly simple, many idiots just choose to make it complicated for themselves and other innocent hard working victims.

Our largest single souce of forex is from crude oil sales... Most of that forex is shipped back to the west to get refined products or stolen... The rest is used to buy military equipment to fight insurgents.. How then can Nigeria pay back such loans at 8% for 30 years...


What our elite don't understand is that out there, you're the respect you get has alot to do with hpw your home economy is functioning....

I'd hardly say this, but the future of this nation hangs in a fine balance... Over the next two months, prices of goods will shoot up really badly driving millions i to poverty

Born2conquer:


Bro, it is low self esteem, why do you think these currencies are stronger against our currency’s? Because our leaders won’t stop borrowing




The government should be intentional, the government should focus the first batch of infrastructural development on making sure Nigeria is Safe for Foreigners to set up their business in Nigeria
a) the government should target the top 10 things being imported.

The government can also create an agricultural reserve for livestock and plant products, prisoners are cheap labours , the government should build standard apartments on forest reserves and let the prisoners scattered all across the country to be farm workers there (free labours)
Then the government in then train those prisoners in agriculture and also pay them something monthly from the money made from the farm.

This is not a rocket science, i just listed something that can practically applicable.

This will reduce load on dollar and crude oil

The first is one part I really agree with... What the CBN and MOF should do is itemise the top 10 imported items consuming forex and see how to replicate these here.
A while back, I talked about diary import. Fact is, whether we like it or not, or whether we have the technology or not, Nigeria a nation of 250 million cannot afford to continue importing milk from Netherlands a country of 18 million people...

What I don't agree with is forcing prosoners yo do manual labour as this will gp against basic human rights.


What our elite don't understand is that borrowing is more beneficial to Western nations than it is to African nations... Ideally, US should be paying Nigeria to keep our foreign reserves in the dollar

Sir Emma and other Oga. Pls I have tbills with Stanbic which will mature by March. Now I need cash . Is it possible to use the certificate and get a loan somewhere. Pls let me know if it’s possible . Thanks

jedisco:


It's exorbitantly high... we're practically gifting them free cash....
Worse still, those issuing such will come and tell us that being oversubscribed is a sign of confidence in the market... Just imagine... If anything, borrowing at such rate, shows how shaky the economy is.... Economic gaffes like this enslaven citizens yet unborn

The worrying question is now how will Nigeria pay these loans back

The startegy has been to borrow more to service existing loans. This is our current situation. In Q2 we spent $400bn just to service foreign bonds. This money was raised from foreign loans. Bond rates in developed economies are very low (<1.5%) because central bankers are still reluctant on increasing rates. China's tantrums is scaring investors away. So if Nigeria is giving such a high percentage on its eurobonds, why won't it be oversubscribed? It is not a sign of confidence. Confidence in an economy where debt servicing has exceeded government revenue? In the last 10 years, foreign borrowing has quadrupled. This is just portfolio mangers looking for where to get yields and protect cash from rising inflation till the developed markets stabilize and go full trottle.

Akin3891:


Great, @ what percentage do they give the loan? I'm looking forward to getting a 10m facility from them. I will be switching my mutual funds account from stanbic to them as stanbic rates seems mockery these days

United Capital interest rate is 15% per annum


You will get 90% of the value of your Investment as a loan.


Stanbic IBTC Bank will give you loan based on 80% of your Investments with their asset management subsidiary but their interest rate is 24% per annum

cmoney22222:
Sir Emma and other Oga. Pls I have tbills with Stanbic which will mature by March. Now I need cash . Is it possible to use the certificate and get a loan somewhere. Pls let me know if it’s possible . Thanks

Talk to your bank if you can get a loan using your TB as collateral, you can also terminate your Treasury Bill Investments

MTN is in the market to raise N90 billion.


Big businesses now prefer to get funds through commercial papers and corporate bonds, instead of going to commercial banks

emmanuelewumi:


United Capital interest rate is 15% per annum


You will get 90% of the value of your Investment as a loan.


Stanbic IBTC Bank will give you loan based on 80% of your Investments with their asset management subsidiary but their interest rate is 24% per annum

Kashnow by United Capital does not require collateral, it is basically for civil servants to borrow 2k to a maximum of 50k at an interest rate of 2% per month

Labadi69:


...Please do something about these insults

When this one begin visit this kind thread?

Okay sir. But you have the idea of the charges for this?

emmanuelewumi:



Talk to your bank if you can get a loan using your TB as collateral, you can also terminate your Treasury Bill Investments

jedisco:


The first is one part I really agree with... What the CBN and MOF should do is itemise the top 10 imported items consuming forex and see how to replicate these here.
A while back, I talked about diary import. Fact is, whether we like it or not, or whether we have the technology or not, Nigeria a nation of 250 million cannot afford to continue importing milk from Netherlands a country of 18 million people...

What I don't agree with is forcing prosoners yo do manual labour as this will gp against basic human rights.


What our elite don't understand is that borrowing is more beneficial to Western nations than it is to African nations... Ideally, US should be paying Nigeria to keep our foreign reserves in the dollar

We have millions of able bodied unemployed people before focusing on prisoners. If I was a Government executive, My number one objective will be to increase productivity. We are a very unproductive people contributing little to the world economy (but for crude oil that we didn’t work for)

I’ll focus on establishing new smart cities with heavy focus on Manufacturing, Technology and agriculture.
The huge population of unemployed Nigerians will have a standby offer to work at minimum wage. Human labor will be used to build new roads, rails, new cities. I’ll never give free money like Npower. I’ll float a lot of Naira government bonds to get money for huge projects.


Skilled tech people should be made to build clones of enterprise softwares and sell it to the world at cheaper rates. Focus on training kids about IT and programming and building a tech pipeline. I’d want Nigeria to be associated with cheaper but quality software products like India used to be.

For manufacturing, instead of taking USD loans, Nigeria can team up with 5 other nearby African countries and create funds for their joint biggest imports which needs to be made locally.

I also don’t believe prisoners should get free food after committing crimes. They should be made to work in construction, agriculture etc. However, they should be paid wages, they should pay taxes to Government and the returns of their labor should be saved for them like pension fund.

jedisco:
A while ago, Nigeria went borrowing via eurobonds issued between 6-9%...while this was expectedly oversubscribed, and some reasoned that this showed confidence in the market, I can't help but wonder why the rates are that high... The holders of this monies borrowed would have been forced to pay interest to banks if it sat idle in their home nations

Today, over 20% of all dollars in circulation was printed over the last 2 years and more is set to be printed out of thin air. The system is aflush with funds looking for who to lend it to... I remember stating a while back that they US and EU can afford to do that vos they know smaller nations will come begging. Already, that is happening.... Wouldn't be surprised that if the FG may need to organise free crude swaps in future to pay off these debts....

I cannot understand how an individual in the west will walk up to his bank, borrow hundreds of thousands of forex at rates well below 3% to buy a house appreciating at upto 10% per annum, yet a sovereign nation is happy to borrow such forex at 8%. Nigeria is practically giving Western lenders free cash..

This is the way I see the macro picture- an American sits in his house, prints paper outta thin air, a Nigerian goes cap in hand begging for such paper money at the expense of his natural resources and his fellow citizens are happy at being afforded such paper at cutthroat rates

Is it that the monetary system is rigged against poorer nations or poorer nations don't just understand it??

I will say the monetary system is riigged against the poorer nations. US will do QE by printing dollars and distribute to their citizens as welfare to buy consumption and luxury items but when we print our own Naira, there will be an uproar. We cannot even print our own Naira to pay pensioners. We are expected to sell in USD and then convert to Naira before paying pensioners.

afroxyz:


The startegy has been to borrow more to service existing loans. This is our current situation. In Q2 we spent $400bn just to service foreign bonds. This money was raised from foreign loans. Bond rates in developed economies are very low (<1.5%) because central bankers are still reluctant on increasing rates. China's tantrums is scaring investors away. So if Nigeria is giving such a high percentage on its eurobonds, why won't it be oversubscribed? It is not a sign of confidence. Confidence in an economy where debt servicing has exceeded government revenue? In the last 10 years, foreign borrowing has quadrupled. This is just portfolio mangers looking for where to get yields and protect cash from rising inflation till the developed markets stabilize and go full trottle.

Of course it's not a sign of strength as the FG nd some have argued... If anything, it's a sign of a weak economy to borrow at such rates..

As we don't earn much forex, I really wonder if the FG has thought through how to repay these loans... Even if the had to borrow to rebalance the outstanding debt, what happened to 2-3% rates which would still be much higher than what Western nations offer....

What the FG fails to understand is that a eurobond rate of 8% is equivalent to a local TB rate of over 20%. With eurobonds, they have to earn the forex to pay back... They can't print it.

Olaide1295:


We have millions of able bodied unemployed people before focusing on prisoners. If I was a Government executive, My number one objective will be to increase productivity. We are a very unproductive people contributing little to the world economy (but for crude oil that we didn’t work for)

I’ll focus on establishing new smart cities with heavy focus on Manufacturing, Technology and agriculture.
The huge population of unemployed Nigerians will have a standby offer to work at minimum wage. Human labor will be used to build new roads, rails, new cities. I’ll never give free money like Npower. I’ll float a lot of Naira government bonds to get money for huge projects.


Skilled tech people should be made to build clones of enterprise softwares and sell it to the world at cheaper rates. Focus on training kids about IT and programming and building a tech pipeline. I’d want Nigeria to be associated with cheaper but quality software products like India used to be.

For manufacturing, instead of taking USD loans, Nigeria can team up with 5 other nearby African countries and create funds for their joint biggest imports which needs to be made locally.

I also don’t believe prisoners should get free food after committing crimes. They should be made to work in manufacturing, agriculture etc. However, they should be paid wages, they should pay taxes to Government and the returns of their labor should be saved for them like pension fund.

You've got valid submissions... It doesn't take much to turn the nation around....still a bit skeptical about the prisoner part though...

There's been an argument that African nations could jointly issue eurobonds and go for lower rates... Some African nations borrow at rates of upto 15%. How on earth would they break even?


Fact is, the future of the economy hangs in a fine balance...and those in charge are not making the right decisions

NL1960:


I will say the monetary system is riigged against the poorer nations. US will do QE by printing dollars and distribute to their citizens as welfare to buy consumption and luxury items but when we print our own Naira, there will be an uproar. We cannot even print our own Naira to pay pensioners. We are expected to sell in USD and then convert to Naira before paying pensioners.

I'd say some nations do not just understand it and they keep sabotaging themselves.
Ideally, the US should pay countries interest for keeping their reserves in the USD...

Every nation prints money... The issue is what is done with the printed money...
How was the government able to keep up with 12% TB rate? It was simply by printing money and not from revenue...
Ideally, such monies should have been chanelled to productivity/manufacturing or even given directly to low income earners to stimulate spending...

I can't imagine the US printing money to issue yearly TBs or bonds at rates of over 10%

The other day, the VP was tasking banks to support the housing industry by making available cheaper loans...

What he forgot is the role the FG and CBN have to play...

By now, the CBN should have built on or supported independent agencies to build on the BVN and NIN to provide a verifiable and objective system of rating the credit worthiness of citizens... In Western nations, citizens don't play with their credit rating as success in life can depend on it.

Banks will not go on handing cash out to random folks simply cos the VP asked... Also, asking the everyday middle class to be able to avail collateral to get significant credit is not practical. The current system only makes the rich richer. There should be an objective way of assessing those who are credit worthy based on past spending habits, earnings e.tc

That way, banks can objectively assess who is safe to lend money to.. The CBN can now follow this up by making sure banks lend out a minimum amount of their reserves and also making sure that lending goes to specific sectors...

That's how successful nations have leveraged the monetary system to their favour

Access bank sent me a mail that I'm eligible for a loan if only I open a salary account

It seems they're mad

jedisco:


Of course it's not a sign of strength as the FG nd some have argued... If anything, it's a sign of a weak economy to borrow at such rates..

As we don't earn much forex, I really wonder if the FG has thought through how to repay these loans... Even if the had to borrow to rebalance the outstanding debt, what happened to 2-3% rates which would still be much higher than what Western nations offer....

What the FG fails to understand is that a eurobond rate of 8% is equivalent to a local TB rate of over 20%. With eurobonds, they have to earn the forex to pay back... They can't print it.

FG are totally making a serious speculation that is doom to blow right on our face. Nigeria Economy should just burn down completely already no need to push the inevitable. Though, Desperate times calls for Desperate measures. The next political parties are coming to inherit a gigantic problem.

jedisco:
The other day, the VP was tasking banks to support the housing industry by making available cheaper loans...

What he forgot is the role the FG and CBN have to play...

By now, the CBN should have built on or supported independent agencies to build on the BVN and NIN to provide a verifiable and objective system of rating the credit worthiness of citizens... In Western nations, citizens don't play with their credit rating as success in life can depend on it.

Banks will not go on handing cash out to random folks simply cos the VP asked... Also, asking the everyday middle class to be able to avail collateral to get significant credit is not practical. The current system only makes the rich richer. There should be an objective way of assessing those who are credit worthy based on past spending habits, earnings e.tc

That way, banks can objectively assess who is safe to lend money to.. The CBN can now follow this up by making sure banks lend out a minimum amount of their reserves and also making sure that lending goes to specific sectors...

That's how successful nations have leveraged the monetary system to their favour

Very few Nigerians are credit worthy, the average Nigerian is not honest.

It is not easy getting an unsecured loan from GTB, you must have a job in some of the big organizations acceptable to GTB before you can get a loan. Yet some of the loans went bad and going bad.

Some of such workers have lost their jobs, some have changed jobs ( thank God for BVN GTB can always recover such loans), some got the loans and japa to Canada and other countries.


Banks should learn from microfinance banks, the microfinance banks give revolving loans to artisans associations or cooperative societies which will now give to their members or the microfinance banks will make the associations or societies to guarantee the loans.

Giving out loans based on where one works is currently not working in Nigeria, some of the banks are now requiring guarantees from employers

An average bank will prefer to give an unsecured loan of N15 million to someone working with MTN to buy a car, but will decline giving an investor a loan of N15 million even though he has more than enough collateral.


The bank will make more money giving the loan of N15 million to the employee of MTN, because banks love deals.

The employee of MTN must buy the car from dealers recommended by the bank, the comprehensive insurance must be done by the company recommended by the bank, security and tracking system in the car must be done by the company recommended by the bank etc. So the bank must have made about N1 million already from the deal from day one, before calculating the interest to be earned by the bank over the next 4 years

Here in lies more than 40% of our problem not just with loans but with rate of unemployment. Many busy people at home and abroad have idle money in the bank that they would have love to invest but this our problem has burnt too many fingers that they would rather give Meffy at 0.5% and be assured of getting their money back than build one factory that siblings, relations and workers will stripe to it carcass.
We call it smartness or sharpness. Na we de d ourselves sha.

emmanuelewumi:



Very few Nigerians are credit worthy, the average Nigerian is not honest.

Iemployers

ojesymsym:
Here in lies more than 40% of our problem not just with loans but with rate of unemployment. Many busy people at home and abroad have idle money in the bank that they would have love to invest but this our problem has burnt too many fingers that they would rather give Meffy at 0.5% and be assured of getting their money back than build one factory that siblings, relations and workers will stripe to it carcass.
We call it smartness or sharpness. Na we de d ourselves sha.

A guy who sounded brilliant and smart was active on this thread about 2 to 3 years ago, he was against Treasury Bill and other portfolio Investments. He believed portfolio investors should invest in the real sector, he believed portfolio investors were under performing the expected returns they could get if they had invested in the real sector and other businesses.

The guy was a jack of all trades, master of none, he was into agriculture, health, real estate, MLM , Transportation, Haulage, forex trading, logistics,etc.


Thank God for contentment, wisdom, knowledge and information, members of this thread would have lost hundreds of millions of Naira to his proposed Agricultural ventures in Oyo and Osun states, real estate ventures in Ibeju Lekki axis and Ogun State.


Rule number one, don't invest in what you don't understand

emmanuelewumi:
...

...Rule number one, don't invest in what you don't understand

As simple as ABC! That's all to it... QED!

emmanuelewumi:



A guy who sounded brilliant and smart was active on this thread about 2 to 3 years ago, he was against Treasury Bill and other portfolio Investments. He believed portfolio investors should invest in the real sector, he believed portfolio investors were under performing the expected returns they could get if they had invested in the real sector and other businesses.

The guy was a jack of all trades, master of none, he was into agriculture, health, real estate, MLM , Transportation, Haulage, forex trading, logistics,etc.


Thank God for contentment, wisdom, knowledge and information, members of this thread would have lost hundreds of millions of Naira to his proposed Agricultural ventures in Oyo and Osun states, real estate ventures in Ibeju Lekki axis and Ogun State.


Rule number one, don't invest in what you don't understand

Rule number two don't forget rule number one!

emmasoft:


Rule number two don't forget rule number one!

Rule 3 Don't follow the crowd.

Neverlosemoney:

FG are totally making a serious speculation that is doom to blow right on our face. Nigeria Economy should just burn down completely already no need to push the inevitable. Though, Desperate times calls for Desperate measures. The next political parties are coming to inherit a gigantic problem.

Nigeria has a way of edging on though things have got quite bad of recent and seem to be getting to a brink. With the current inflation after the last devaluation, I worry of what another devaluation will cause. Also with prices of food already set to be significantly higher next year due to security challenges