BuddhaPalm:


My brother leave chest beating, we would have been Muslims today if not for the Oba's army.

An organised army in the tens of thousands vs scattered hamlets...we would have stood no chance.

Lol , he doesn't understand that central leadership with a king and an overall general is crucial in winning battles. Scattered hamlets where every man is a king cannot face a ferocious cavalry assault for long.

SisterFire:
History is great , without it how can wisemen know the future
What Lagos cowards don't know is that
" if those who fight for their generation unborn are 1000 they can defeat an army of 10,000 "
Y is it so ,the word passion comes to mind
The 10,000 fighters or invaders aren't passionate to the course but were paid for their wickedness and money can't ignite that passion in u ,
Only those with passion are the few evil old men who send youngmen to their wicked course

,4000 Czech youths defeated roman empire together with their evil leaders 600years ago

What is the relationship of lagos to all these?

SisterFire:
...They replaced Fulani hate to Igbo hate in 1966 and they are doomed forever . making who isn't ur enemy ur arch-enemy then ur arch-enemy ur friend ..

How Fulani warred against their ancestors years back no one will knew today that middlebelt or Hausa will ever be friend fulanis ever ... Fulanis can play dangerous games how to made children of their enemies remove hateful eyes from them in 1966 ,then made them channel it to the Igbos marvels me till date.

The battles were fought about 200 years ago, long before Igbo tribe was created by the British, so how exactly does igbo comes into this matter?

louqas:


History was stopped in schools during PDP regime of Obj using an ibo woman oby.....Apc restored history to schools

Knowyourhistory

The first time you are saying the truth since you were born.

BuddhaPalm:


My brother leave chest beating, we would have been Muslims today if not for the Oba's army.

An organised army in the tens of thousands vs scattered hamlets...we would have stood no chance.

Did you read the same article in the OP? lol
The army you are talking about faced a little "Hamlet" in this account above, and was roundly defeated, and they ran home to Sokoto.

In Igboland, EVERY clan was an army, and they built "war towers" in each compound that enabled them to see the enemy coming ahead of time. They even had "moats" and other booby-traps that only they could navigate. Some even set up "fighting zones" around natural hazards like hidden waterbodies - for example, in my village there was this waterbody which was covered completely by water plants all year around.
To make matters worse, the river/waterbody had tall trees surrounding it such that only locals know that a river was there.

History of the place had it that the river was discovered by accident when the head of an axe flew off handle and landed with a splash in the water. So, locals always tricked enemies into fighting in that location with devastating consequences for the invading army.

Igbo also had a robust gun smiting culture and made lots of guns.
You need to pick up a good history book and read.

Armies usually exaggerate their exploits all through history, the fulanis included

Babalegba:
Lol , he doesn't understand that central leadership with a king and an overall general is crucial in winning battles. Scattered hamlets where every man is a king cannot face a ferocious cavalry assault for long.

It is not true that every Igbo group had no king. In my part, we had kings; more like WARLORDS who lorded it over others, and they had armies.

Secondly, the invading army in the OP had no cavalry, and had to fight ON FOOT. They lost badly.

In the deep south where horses died of Trypanosomiasis (AKA sleeping sickness), the invaders would have had to fight ON FOOT.
In a jungle and forest situation, facing locals armed with all types of weapons ranging from guns to knives and spears and bow/arrows, as well as even voodoo,; yep, some clans even commanded BEES. In Igbo we say "ndi ahu na aha anwu".
Like I said earlier, those invaders would have been eaten, literally.

To understand what would have happened, the Europeans that tried to "discover River Niger" also saw hell in the hands of local tribesmen in Africa. This book is a good read. There is a reason why the British couldn't rule Igbo directly.

onumadu:
I now understand how middlebelt and southern ethnic groups stopped the Jihadist move southwards.

Precisely Benue state brought an end to the islamization, because that was where the son of Uthman Dan Fodio whom was the leader of his foot soldiers was gruesomely killed with his Islamic army. And also Queen Amina of Zaria was also killed in Benue state which brought an end to the Islamic conquest that's why the Benue valley is predominantly Christians but exception of some idoma people they conquered in Agatu that are currently Muslims

oyatz:


The battles were fought about 200 years ago, long before Igbo tribe was created by the British, so how exactly does igbo comes into this matter?

The British did not create the Igbo. Are you out of your mind?
To follow your train of thoughts, Mongo Park also created River Niger, abi?
Because someone came from Europe to map out an area for easier conquest and exploitation does not make that person the creator of the area.
This history wey dem no dey teach for naija skool dey cause real damage o. Na wa o.

onumadu:


It is not true that every Igbo group had no king. In my part, we had kings; more like WARLORDS who lorded it over others, and they had armies.

Secondly, the invading army in the OP had no cavalry, and had to fight ON FOOT. They lost badly.

In the deep south where horses died of Trypanosomiasis (AKA sleeping sickness), the invaders would have had to fight ON FOOT.
In a jungle and forest situation, facing locals armed with all types of weapons ranging from guns to knives and spears and bow/arrows, as well as even voodoo,; yep, some clans even commanded BEES. In Igbo we say "ndi ahu na aha anwu".
Like I said earlier, those invaders would have been eaten, literally.

To understand what would have happened, the Europeans that tried to "discover River Niger" also saw hell in the hands of local tribesmen in Africa. This book is a good read. There is a reason why the British couldn't rule Igbo directly.

The Igbo and Tiv have thesame system of government which was that first son from every house hold gathers at a meeting point. So it was impossible for the Britain to colonize, like in the case of Benue state they saw that by war they couldn't conquer so they came back and started winning them over by goodwill; giving them gifts.

Prolific007:


Precisely Benue state brought an end to the islamization, because that was where the son of Uthman Dan Fodio whom was the leader of his foot soldiers was gruesomely killed with his Islamic army. And also Queen Amina of Zaria was also killed in Benue state which brought an end to the Islamic conquest that's why the Benue valley is predominantly Christians but exception of some idoma people they conquered in Agatu that are currently Muslims

Exactly.
The question is why were they defeated there rather than in core Northern region?
Methinks that terrain must have played some role in neutralizing their cavalry, seriously undermining their advantages on horseback.
Fighting on foot, they lost, just like in the account from the OP.
Knowing the Fulani, if they had thought that they could succeed at some point in the future, they would have continued trying for years.
They stopped trying because they realized that it would be suicidal for them from Benue onward southwards.
They could have circled Benue and continued south. They did not. Something stopped them, and it wasn't charity.

onumadu:


The British did not create the Igbo. Are you out of your mind?
To follow your train of thoughts, Mongo Park also created River Niger, abi?
Because someone came from Europe to map out an area for easier conquest and exploitation does not make that person the creator of the area.
This history wey dem no dey teach for naija skool dey cause real damage o. Na wa o.

If only you try to read deeply enough, you will know that classification of people in this country into tribes as we now know them were introduced by the Biritish colonialist.


Before the advent of British Colonialism, the name was already in existence but wasn't used to refer to the who ethnic group as we know call them.

The British grouped certain people together and classified them as one if they feel they have similar culture, languages and in some cases if they have similar ancestries or already being under the same pre-colonial political authority.

In this ways some ethnic groups became very big by merging several smaller related groups. Later-on, some of these smaller groups rejected these ethnic tags citing one reason or the other why they don't belong to the previously assigned group e.g Manga Vs Kanuri, Isoko Vs Urhobos.

onumadu:


Exactly.
The question is why were they defeated there rather than in core Northern region?
Methinks that terrain must have played some role in neutralizing their cavalry, seriously undermining their advantages on horseback.
Fighting on foot, they lost, just like in the account from the OP.
Knowing the Fulani, if they had thought that they could succeed at some point in the future, they would have continued trying for years.
They stopped trying because they realized that it would be suicidal for them from Benue onward southwards.
They could have circled Benue and continued south. They did not. Something stopped them, and it wasn't charity.

No, you are getting it wrong.


1) The Islamic Region has been around the North centuries before Uthman Dan Fodio was born.

2) The Jihardists weren't out to convert pagan Communities into Islam, rather they instituted Islamic rule based on the Shari'ah on communities which were already Muslim communities.

However they often raided the pagan communities for slaves because it was unislamic to raid Muslim communities for slaves.

3) Uthman Dan Fodio's son was never killed in the Benue Valley.

4) There were many pagan communities around Sokoto (e.g Zuru Kingdom), the seat of the Caliphate in the 1800s.
These communities were conquered and their citizens were allowed to continue their religions but they had to pay special taxes (Jizya) and accepted the status of inferior second class citizens.

After the advent of British Colonialism, many of these pagans accepted Christianity.

oyatz:



If only you try to read deeply enough, you will know that classification of people in this country into tribes as we now know them were introduced by the Biritish colonialist.


Before the advent of British Colonialism, the name was already in existence but wasn't used to refer to the who ethnic group as we know call them.

The British grouped certain people together and classified them as one if they feel they have similar culture, languages and in some cases if they have similar ancestries or already being under the same pre-colonial political authority.

In this ways some ethnic groups became very big by merging several smaller related groups. Later-on, some of these smaller groups rejected these ethnic tags citing one reason or the other why they don't belong to the previously assigned group e.g Manga Vs Kanuri, Isoko Vs Urhobos.

I wasn't debating that the EUROPEANS (not necessarily the British alone) grouped and classified Africans according to THEIR OWN INTERESTS.
The Africans along the coasts had been interacting with Europeans for more than 300 years before the British (and the other Europeans) started making serious plans to colonize the place. Before the British colonized the place, they had to map it out.
The book in the OP did a good job to show how it happened.
All I was saying is that the British did not create any ethnic group in Africa, just like Mongo Park never discovered river Niger.
They only mapped and classified the place for easier exploitation and colonization. The British themselves were "discovered" by the Romans who called the place Britannia.
Had Africans not been colonized, there is no doubt that they would have discovered themselves in time after long term interaction with the outside world.
I don't want to go into the debate surrounding ethnic classifications because it would deviate this discussion.
What I know is that as far as the Igbo were concerned, EVERY BLACK person was IGBO.

oyatz:


No, you are getting it wrong.


1) The Islamic Region has been around the North centuries before Uthman Dan Fodio was born.

2) The Jihardists weren't out to convert pagan Communities into Islam, rather they instituted Islamic rule based on the Shari'ah on communities which were already Muslim communities.

However they often raided the pagan communities for slaves because it was unislamic to raid Muslim communities for slaves.

3) Uthman Dan Fodio's son was never killed in the Benue Valley.

4) There were many pagan communities around Sokoto (e.g Zuru Kingdom), the seat of the Caliphate in the 1800s.
These communities were conquered and their citizens were allowed to continue their religions but they had to pay special taxes (Jizya) and accepted the status of inferior second class citizens.

After the advent of British Colonialism, many of these pagans accepted Christianity.

Well, like I said, the idea of conquering people and making them pay tax to Islamic caliphate would have failed flat in Igboland (and even their neighbors like Ibibio, Efik, etc,) because those people had already been in contact with the Europeans for hundreds of years along the coasts. They had GUNS and other tools of war. People like Jaja of Opobo for example even had emissaries to Europe.
The Aro were a well organized confederacy controlling slave trade. The Aro for example had a war with the British (The Anglo-Aro war) in 1901-1902.
Like I said, there is a reason the British couldn't exert direct rule over Igboland. They had to institute indirect rule.
The point is that the idea of slave raids into Igboland would not have succeeded without local support (like the Aro cooperation for example). Secondly the idea of forcing Igbo to pay tax was dead on arrival unless you wanted war because paying of tax was traditionally totally alien to Igbo. And of course the idea of being "second class citizen" can only happen within Igbo traditional institutions. Igbo believed that each man was equal to the other. That was what gave rise to the notion that Igbo had no kings.

onumadu:

Had Africans not been colonized, there is no doubt that they would have discovered themselves in time after long term interaction with the outside world.

Interesting. Discovered themselves how? Let's forget colonialism for a moment and talk about discovery. How would Africa have discovered itself without contact with Europeans? By interacting with the same outside world whose exploration led them to discover Africa?

With the mess of a region I'm seeing today, I have good reason to believe that if the outside world didn't find their way to Africa, there wouldn't be much difference between Africa of 1021 and Africa of 2021.

onumadu:
I now understand how middlebelt and southern ethnic groups stopped the Jihadist move southwards.

There was nothing like a Jihadist move. Islam had been in Nigeria for centuries before the Fulani arrived.
Much as the Fulani try to rewrite history
Islam was in what is now Lagos State for centuries before any so called jihad just as it was in Borno Kano and elsewhere in the North and South

onumadu:


Well, like I said, the idea of conquering people and making them pay tax to Islamic caliphate would have failed flat in Igboland (and even their neighbors like Ibibio, Efik, etc,) because those people had already been in contact with the Europeans for hundreds of years along the coasts. They had GUNS and other tools of war. People like Jaja of Opobo for example even had emissaries to Europe.
The Aro were a well organized confederacy controlling slave trade. The Aro for example had a war with the British (The Anglo-Aro war) in 1901-1902.
Like I said, there is a reason the British couldn't exert direct rule over Igboland. They had to institute indirect rule.
The point is that the idea of slave raids into Igboland would not have succeeded without local support (like the Aro cooperation for example). Secondly the idea of forcing Igbo to pay tax was dead on arrival unless you wanted war because paying of tax was traditionally totally alien to Igbo. And of course the idea of being "second class citizen" can only happen within Igbo traditional institutions. Igbo believed that each man was equal to the other. That was what gave rise to the notion that Igbo had no kings.

Always the same empty chest beating

Eboes never evolved administration beyond the clan level and were plundered for slaves by everyone.
Ijaw, Efik , Ibibio, Itsekiri etc
Many Eboes did pay tax and other levies
THe Aros were not Eboes they were an Akpa and Ibom dynasty with a very similar relationship to Eboes as Fulani to Hausa.

0m0nnakoda:
There was nothing like a Jihadist move. Islam had been in Nigeria for centuries before the Fulani arrived.
Much as the Fulani try to rewrite history
Islam was in what is now Lagos State for centuries before any so called jihad just as it was in Borno Kano and elsewhere in the North and South

Call it whatever you like, but don't deviate from the topic.
The topic says that a "small pagan" enclave defeated a jihadist army of 60,000.
Then I said I now understand why the same raids and conquests did not continue down south. The Tivs for example that defeated the move towards south east have similar culture with Igbo, and I stated that the jihadists would have faced worse fate in the far more difficult terrain in Igbo heartlands.
QED.
You can debate yourself about when Islam come to Yorubaland. That is not my business.

0m0nnakoda:

Always the same empty chest beating

[s]Eboes never evolved administration beyond the clan level and were plundered for slaves by everyone.
Ijaw, Efik , Ibibio, Itsekiri etc
Many Eboes did pay tax and other levies
THe Aros were not Eboes they were an Akpa and Ibom dynasty with a very similar relationship to Eboes as Fulani to Hausa.[/s]

I knew it was only a matter of time before your kind showed up here. lol
Why is it that anytime Igbo talk about IGBO culture supported by history and even contemporary evidence, your type (Yoruba) call it "chest beating"? WHY?
Must we all be like you Yoruba in culture, values, methods and approach before we qualify to discuss our history freely and not be called chest beaters?
When will this your insecurity and inferiority complex toward the Igbo end?
Na wa o.

onumadu:


I knew it was only a matter of time before your kind showed up here. lol
Why is it that anytime Igbo talk about IGBO culture supported by history and even contemporary evidence, your type (Yoruba) call it "chest beating"? WHY?
Must we all be like you Yoruba in culture, values, methods and approach before we qualify to discuss our history freely and not be called chest beaters?
When will this your insecurity and inferiority complex toward the Igbo end?
Na wa o.

The concept of Yoruba insecurity and inferiority with regards to Eboe is an oxymoron
There is nothing to write home about your history. It is a litany of shame

Essentially you were a source of slaves for centuries for smaller better organized groups like the Efik, Ibibio, Edo and Itsekiri

That is your history. A history of enslavement

Politically there is NO HISTORY OF A SINGLE EBOE town before colonization. You were not evolved politically and were indeed quite primitive. The largest political entity you ever had was the Village/Clan level

0m0nnakoda:

The concept of Yoruba insecurity and inferiority with regards to Eboe is an oxymoron
There is nothing to write home about your history. It is a litany of shame

Essentially you were a source of slaves for centuries for smaller better organized groups like the Efik, Ibibio, Edo and Itsekiri

That is your history. A history of enslavement

Politically there is NO HISTORY OF A SINGLE EBOE town before colonization. You were not evolved politically and were indeed quite primitive. The largest political entity you ever had was the Village/Clan level

Funny that you keep trying to foist slave tag on Igbo by all means to make yourself feel better about your ethnic group. lol
I read an authoritative historical account that stated that after the "Eboe landing" incident, the slave traders started selling more Yoruba MEN because they didn't want Igbo men committing suicide on getting to the other side.
The account also stated that Yoruba men were also preferred because of their crafts in wood work and other handy works.
That accounted for huge Yoruba slave enclaves in South America and Caribbean.
As for Igbo contribution to civilization and related matters, you are not the type to discuss/debate it with, because you are intellectually inferior and filled with hate. lol
Even if all the evidence were to be presented to you, you will still sidestep them and stick to your trolling games.
I stopped debating trolls years ago.

onumadu:
I now understand how middlebelt and southern ethnic groups stopped the Jihadist move southwards.

By building walled cities
Why is the OP repeating the pagan adjective for the people who resisted Bello’s attempt to conquer and dominate them under the pretext of Islamisation?

louqas:
History was stopped in schools during PDP regime of Obj using an ibo woman oby.....Apc restored history to schools

Knowyourhistory

Source of your story

onumadu:
Culled from the historical book "British Nigeria". By Lieut -Col A.F. Mockler-Ferryman

What is Coonia and Gober called today

onumadu:


Funny that you keep trying to foist slave tag on Igbo by all means to make yourself feel better about your ethnic group. lol
I read an authoritative historical account that stated that after the "Eboe landing" incident, the slave traders started selling more Yoruba MEN because they didn't want Igbo men committing suicide on getting to the other side.
The account also stated that Yoruba men were also preferred because of their crafts in wood work and other handy works.
That accounted for huge Yoruba slave enclaves in South America and Caribbean.
As for Igbo contribution to civilization and related matters, you are not the type to discuss/debate it with, because you are intellectually inferior and filled with hate. lol
Even if all the evidence were to be presented to you, you will still sidestep them and stick to your trolling games.
I stopped debating trolls years ago.

Yes you can sit down with Nnamdi and IPOB to concoct all manner of feel good fiction
The fundamental issue here is that tiny groups like Efik and itsekiri sold Eboes as slaves for centuries

Eboes never lived in towns. They are essentially villagers with no history of any significance. as in Zero

There is NOT ONE NAME male or female of ANY Eboe character of note
Nothing

Evoe land was just a large poultry harvested by the Ibom and Ijaw for human merchandise
So do not come here with empty chest beating trying to tell us you are 1000 when you are less that 5

0m0nnakoda:

Always the same empty chest beating

Eboes never evolved administration beyond the clan level and were plundered for slaves by everyone.
Ijaw, Efik , Ibibio, Itsekiri etc
Many Eboes did pay tax and other levies
THe Aros were not Eboes they were an Akpa and Ibom dynasty with a very similar relationship to Eboes as Fulani to Hausa.

You're very foolish. Provide just one single historical proof that any of those tribes you listed plundered Igboland. Show excerpts from any credible historian to the effect. Emphasis is on the word 'plunder'.
Oponu like you.

Fejoku:

You're very foolish. Provide just one single historical proof that any of those tribes you listed plundered Igboland. Show excerpts from any credible historian to the effect. Emphasis is on the word 'plunder'.
Oponu like you.

Ask Asari Dokubo and Reno Omokri

they will confirm it

seguno2:


By building walled cities
Why is the OP repeating the pagan adjective for the people who resisted Bello’s attempt to conquer and dominate them under the pretext of Islamisation?

I wasn't really repeating the narrative. I'm just echoing the train of thoughts of the author.
The author called them "pagans".
To the early European explorers of Africa, anybody is not a "Mohammedan" or a "Christian" by their own definition, was simply classified as pagan.
It really doesn't matter, because the Romans classified even the early Britain as part of "barbarian" (read "pagan" per Roman classification) territory.
What really intrigued me in this story is how a small determined group of Africans defeated an army of 60,000 of Afro-Asiatic invaders.
Every true historian knows that the Fulani "Jihad" was really a stratagem to conquer and rule over people. Nothing more.

Fejoku:

You're very foolish. Provide just one single historical proof that any of those tribes you listed plundered Igboland. Show excerpts from any credible historian to the effect. Emphasis is on the word 'plunder'.
Oponu like you.

Please IGNORE THAT GUY. He will go away when ignored well.
Let him debate himself