mhmsadyq:


This a big lie! I am sorry.
Insults and curses is 98% Trinitarians Evangelism.

Who is this one? Abeg go and challenge those people who have directly evangelized to you with insults and curses.

Worshipping the christian god is the equivalent of going to a museum, seeing the dinosaur bones of T-REX and shouting, "EGBON T, PLEASE, DO NOT FEAST ON MY FLESH!!! I BOUGHT A FULL CHICKEN FOR YOU, PLUS A BOTTLE OF REX LAGER BEER!!!

TenQ:

I said:
Logically, For there to be anything at all, there must exist an "Uncaused First-Cause" of everything....

Can you logically invalidate the statement above?

The logic is speculation.

And if you speculate, then your opponent has a right to make his own counter speculation too.

So what are the spectators to do with the 2 Opposing Speculations?

You have both confused them and left them hungering for The Truth.

Meanwhile "SPECULATIONS DO NOT PROVE TRUTH"

So you have only laid a ground for confusion and endless debates because of your logical speculation.

Go and worship whatever comes to your mind no wahala!

Dtruthspeaker:


The logic is speculation.

And if you speculate, then your opponent has a right to make his own counter speculation too.

So what are the spectators to do with the 2 Opposing Speculations?

You have both confused them and left them hungering for The Truth.

Meanwhile "SPECULATIONS DO NOT PROVE TRUTH"

So you have only laid a ground for confusion and endless debates because of your logical speculation.

Logic is NO speculation:
Logic is following postulates or reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity!

For example:'
Logic says, if A is taller than B and B is taller than C, then A must be taller than C!
Is the example above a speculation?

I have laid down simple verifiable postulates
1. The Universe and ALL Physical things have an origin (approximately 13.8 billion years ago)
2. There exist the "Law of cause and effect": Without a cause there cannot be an effect AND an effect is what initiates a cause
3. An Infinite regress of Cause and Effect is impossible
Conclusion:
Since things exist and obey the law of Cause and Effect, there must therefore exist an "Uncaused First-Cause" of everything (aka God).

To disprove the conclusion, all you have to do is invalidate any of the three postulates

TenQ:

God had always existed!
Logically, For there to be anything at all, there must exist an "Uncaused First-Cause" of everything.
That "Uncaused First-Cause" is called by the title GOD!

The uncaused cause is the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Dtruthspeaker:


I do not tolerate Wrong Doing of Any Kind.

And you asked for my opinion saying "Then how come you are so sure... ?.

When you stay in your law full place no one has a right to insult you.

Then I am saying that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the uncaused cause.

Is that not your claim as well?

Workch:
The uncaused cause is the Flying Spaghetti Monster

No problem.
We know the Creator of the World, the Uncaused First Cause by the Title "God"

WHen did you repent of being an atheist?

TenQ:

No problem.
We know the Creator of the World, the Uncaused First Cause by the Title "God"

WHen did you repent of being an atheist?

Nope, he’s the Flying Spaghetti Monster and not the Christian God

Workch:
Then I am saying that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the uncaused cause.

Is that not your claim as well?

It is you who is now making your own claim, I have settled mine.

Dtruthspeaker:


It is you who is now making your own claim, I have settled mine.

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the uncaused cause and I’m not even willing to provide evidence for that, just believe it and be saved

Workch:
Nope, he’s the Flying Spaghetti Monster and not the Christian God

That's exactly my point.
When did you stop being an atheist?

TenQ:

That's exactly my point.
When did you stop being an atheist?

When did you started serving the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

Workch:
The Flying Spaghetti Monster is the uncaused cause and I’m not even willing to provide evidence for that, just believe it and be saved

I did not ask you, did I?

Dtruthspeaker:


I did not ask you, did I?

You don’t need to ask anyone before you preaching the gospel, you just start telling them.
That’s what I am doing

Jesus is Disqualified as G-d

...And by His Own Words
In order to prove whether or not someone is qualified as G-d, we must first define the attributes of G-d. I believe regardless of what religion we are practicing, there are 4 basic characteristics of G-d. It should also be agreed upon, that if any one of these 4 characteristics are violated, or disproved, or missing, or not fulfilled, then just that one is an automatic disqualification of being G-d.

Omniscient (All Knowing)

Omnipotent (All Powerful)

Omnipresent (All Present/Everywhere)

G-d is Holy, does not lie, is not a liar
Before I get into Jesus own testimony about how he is disqualified from being G-d, in the Xtian bible, there is also a very fundamental doctrine from the written Torah, which is the ultimate authority on G-d, which also disproves Jesus being G-d. Simply, it says multiple times, Elohim (G-d) is NOT a man. Personally, I would put this point as number 4 on our list. However, only Jews would accept this as a characteristic of G-d, for obvious reasons. Although it may say it more than the times I am going to include, here are SEVERAL verses in the written Torah describing Elohim, aka G-d. Another major point, every single pronoun used to describe HaShem, the G-d of Israel, is singular...not plural.

Exodus 20:1-3 “Elohim spoke all these words, saying, 'I (HaShem), am your Elohim (G-d) Who brought you out of the land of Egypt...You shall have no other gods, but Me'”

Exodus 20:5 “I, HaShem your Elohim (G-d), am a jealous Elohim (G-d)...”

Exodus 23:25 “And you shall serve HaShem, your Elohim (G-d)...”

Numbers 23:10 “Elohim (G-d) is not a man...neither the son of man...”

Deuteronomy 4:35 “Unto you it was clearly demonstrated that HaShem, alone, is Elohim
(G-d); there is none but Him.”

Deuteronomy 4:39 “Know therefore this day and keep in mind that HaShem alone is Elohim (G-d) in heaven above and on earth below; there is no other.”

Deuteronomy 5:7 “You shall have no other gods, but Me”

Deuteronomy 6:13 “You shall fear HaShem your Elohim (G-d); and Him only shall you serve, and by His Name shall you swear.”

Deuteronomy 32:39-40 “...there is no god but Me...there is none that can deliver out of My hand.”

And HaShem also gave us warnings about false prophets to come in the future from the times before the Israelites entered into the Promised Land.

Deuteronomy 13:1-6 Be careful to observe only that which I give to you, neither add to it nor take away from it. If there appears among you a prophet or a dream-diviner and he gives you a sign or a warning saying, 'Let us follow and worship another god' whom you have not experienced, even if the sign or prophecy that he said to you comes true, do not listen to the words of that prophet or that dream-diviner. For HaShem your Elohim is testing you to see whether you really love HaShem your Elohim with all your heart and soul. FOLLOW NO ONE but HaShem your Elohim, and REVERE NONE but Him; observe His commandments ALONE, and heed ONLY His orders; WORSHIP NO ONE but Him, and cling to Him. As for that prophet or dream-diviner, he shall be put to death; for he urged disloyalty to HaShem your Elohim - Who freed you from the land of Egypt and Who redeemed you from the house of slavery - to make you stray from the path that HaShem your Elohim commanded you to follow. Thus you will throw out evil from your presence.”

Deuteronomy 18:20-22 “But any prophet who presumes to speak in My Name a prophecy that I did not command him to say, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die. And should you ask yourselves, “How can we know that the prophecy was not spoken by HaShem? If that prophet speaks in the Name of HaShem and the prophecy does not come true, that prophecy was not spoken by HaShem; that prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not stand in fear of him.”

Now in Jesus' own words:

Not Omnipotent, All Powerful in: John 14:28 “My father is greater than I.”

Romans 8:11 “But if the Holy Spirit that raised up Jesus from the dead lives within you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Holy Spirit that lives within you.”

Galatians 1:1 “Paul, an apostle, not of men, but of Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead.”

Not Omniscient, All Knowing in Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour, knows no man,no, not the angels of heaven, but my father only.”

Not Omnipresent, All Present in Matthew 27:46 “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”
Mark 15:34 “My God, my God, why have you abandoned me?”

Jesus Lied in: Matthew 12:40 “So as Jonah was in the belly of the beast three days and three nights, so the son of man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”

Matthew 28:1, 6 “In the end of Sabbath...he is risen” Dying on Friday and “resurrecting” on Saturday, is NOT 3 days and 3 nights.
Thus a lie; a false prophecy, a false god.

Workch:
You don’t need to ask anyone before you preaching the gospel, you just start telling them.
That’s what I am doing

You do have the right to preach but I have mine as well

So exercise your rights and I'll exercise mine!

As long as you are within your Rights, there is no objection! YET!

Workch:
When did you started serving the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

I don't know FSP, you introduced him to me as YOUR "Uncaused First Cause"!

Workch:
The uncaused cause is the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Workch:
Nope, he’s the Flying Spaghetti Monster and not the Christian God

Of cause, FSP is NOT the Christian God.

So, when did you stop being an atheist?

TenQ:

I don't know FSP, you introduced him to me as YOUR "Uncaused First Cause"!




Of cause, FSP is NOT the Christian God.

So, when did you stop being an atheist?

I have never been atheist, I serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Dtruthspeaker:


You do have the right to preach but I have mine as well

So exercise your rights and I'll exercise mine!

As long as you are within your Rights, there is no objection! YET!

Alright bro

It is very illogical to walk on 2 legs, you are much more stable on all 4 limbs, so op, hope you start crawling on all 4 as it is the logical thing to do. Goodluck.

Workch:
I have never been atheist, I serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Good for you!
Your God is a monster!!
LOL!!

TenQ:

Good for you!
Your God is a monster!!
LOL!!

Yes, a God who didn’t kill everyone in a flood because of his narcissism.

Workch:
Aside from the many holes in the Bible; a very ridiculous book that reasonable people should equate to Spider-Man comic, the idea that nothing created god is ridiculous.

Going by that logic, if everything has to be created then god must also be created by something and if nothing created god, it’s more logical to worship nothing. Nothing is actually the true creator since he created god.

Worst still being an African and worshipping him.

Workch:
Yes, a God who didn’t kill everyone in a flood because of his narcissism.

According to Your Words!

Workch:
I have never been atheist, I serve the Flying Spaghetti Monster

TenQ:

Logic is NO speculation:
Logic is following postulates or reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity!

You have said the key word which is "strict principles of validity".

And the Law Strictly says "you can not give valid testimony about a thing which you did not see with your eyes nor could you have been in a position to ever see it."

Else your testimony falls into hearsay evidence or Speculative Evidence.

That is the indefensible weakness of your presentation!

Dtruthspeaker:


You have said the key word which is "strict principles of validity".

And the Law Strictly says "you can not give valid testimony about a thing which you did not see with your eyes nor could you have been in a position to ever see it."

Else your testimony falls into hearsay evidence or Speculative Evidence.

That is the indefensible weakness of your presentation!

But i gave you a very good example of what you needn't see with your eyes to know through logic

TenQ:

Logic is NO speculation:
Logic is following postulates or reasoning conducted or assessed according to strict principles of validity!

For example:'
Logic says, if A is taller than B and B is taller than C, then A must be taller than C!
Is the example above a speculation?

I have laid down simple verifiable postulates
1. The Universe and ALL Physical things have an origin (approximately 13.8 billion years ago)
2. There exist the "Law of cause and effect": Without a cause there cannot be an effect AND an effect is what initiates a cause
3. An Infinite regress of Cause and Effect is impossible
Conclusion:
Since things exist and obey the law of Cause and Effect, there must therefore exist an "Uncaused First-Cause" of everything (aka God).

To disprove the conclusion, all you have to do is invalidate any of the three postulates

Must you see Mr A, B and C to be able to say conclusively that Mr A is taller than Mr C?
All you knew was that
1. Mr A is taller than Mr B
2. Mr B is taller than Mr C
Therefore, even without seeing them, you can know for sure that Mr A must be taller than Mr C.

The only things that invalidates these is if any of the two postulates are faulty.

That is why God gave us wisdom to understand that the universe could not have created itself

TenQ:

Must you see Mr A, B and C to be able to say conclusively that Mr A is taller than Mr C?
All you knew was that
1. Mr A is taller than Mr B
2. Mr B is taller than Mr C.

I'm sorry! I am trying to narrow it down so that you can see the Accuracy of the Truth of your assertion which is "YOU KNEW"

The question of validity that would arise then is, "How did you knew/know?"

Now when we connect the dots which show that you know both Mr. A and Mr. B and that in deed you can TRULY KNOW them, then you would have satisfied the validity of your statement that Mr A is indeed taller than Me. C based on the Additional knowing that Mr. B is Taller than Mr. C, even if you have not met Mr. C.

But if you only Know Mr. A without knowing Mr B and C, Your testimony will fall because of your lack of Personal Connection to Mr B and C.

Which is what I am trying to show you.

Dtruthspeaker:


I'm sorry! I am trying to narrow it down so that you can see the Accuracy of the Truth of your assertion which is "YOU KNEW"

The question of validity that would arise then is, "How did you knew/know?"

Now when we connect the dots which show that you know both Mr. A and Mr. B and that in deed you can TRULY KNOW them, then you would have satisfied the validity of your statement that Mr A is indeed taller than Me. C based on the Additional knowing that Mr. B is Taller than Mr. C, even if you have not met Mr. C.

But if you only Know Mr. A without knowing Mr B and C, Your testimony will fall because of your lack of Personal Connection to Mr B and C.

Which is what I am trying to show you.

Actually, you don't even need to know either Mr A, B or C.
But you need to know a relational truth about them

It is on this truths that Logic is based.
Whenever these truths are nullified, then the conclusion fails
However,
If the truths stand, then the conclusion stands.

Do you think that the Universe has ALWAYS existed?

TenQ:

Actually, you don't even need to know either Mr A, B or C.
But you need to know a relational truth about them.

Wrong!

"Validity" is about the Verification and Confirmation of the Authenticity of the Information being given, hence the standard of Reasonable Doubt, which guarantees that every reasonable question that can be validly asked is also correspondingly validly Answered.

Thus, you will Fall when asked "How did you know?"

And here there is only one Valid Answer which completely clears all the reasonable doubt, which is the Power of the person (Witness) to say "I was there when.... Or I Saw when..."

All other answers apart of these still retain a reasonable doubt hence questioning and counter presentations would continue.

TenQ:

Do you think that the Universe has ALWAYS existed?

My first response is have we and can we capture the Wholeness of the Universe such that we can tell it's beginning and it's end?

Clearly No.

Therefore, it is impossible for any person on earth to Truly and Validly give any Truth Full Answer about the Universe.

For we can be likened to the ants in our compounds which can not know how greatly large this earth is.

All it knows are the vicinities it has covered. It can not know it's yonders.

Dtruthspeaker:


Wrong!

"Validity" is about the Verification and Confirmation of the Authenticity of the Information being given, hence the standard of Reasonable Doubt, which guarantees that every reasonable question that can be validly asked is also correspondingly validly Answered.

Thus, you will Fall when asked "How did you know?"

And here there is only one Valid Answer which completely clears all the reasonable doubt, which is the Power of the person (Witness) to say "I was there when.... Or I Saw when..."

All other answers apart of these still retain a reasonable doubt hence questioning and counter presentations would continue.

In other words, seeing is believing!

Unfortunately, God knows that we can't see everything to KNOW. Therefore, God Gave us Common Sense to judge the truth.

By faith we understand that the world was made by God. If we should go by your disposition, we should say like the atheists "since no one was present when the universe was created, we cannot know that the universe was made by God".
Heb 11:3:
"By faith, we understand that the universe was formed by God’s word, so that what is seen has not been made out of what is visible."

If I keep meat in a freezer at -50 degrees centigrade, will the meat spoil in one year?
Logic says NO!
Your disposition says you can't know until we put the meat in the freezer!
Which position is correct?

Dtruthspeaker:

My first response is have we and can we capture the Wholeness of the Universe such that we can tell it's beginning and it's end?

Clearly No.

Therefore, it is impossible for any person on earth to Truly and Validly give any Truth Full Answer about the Universe.

For we can be likened to the ants in our compounds which can not know how greatly large this earth is.

All it knows are the vicinities it has covered. It can not know it's yonders.

1. The bible says:
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth!

Therefore, the universe has a beginning with its creation by God.
2. Scientific extrapolation says, the universe is expanding and has an origin at about 13.8billion years ago.

Therefore, the universe has a beginning a beginning.
3. Scientific knowledge has shown that the overall entropy of the universe is increasing. This means that the universe will have an end

If the universe has an end, then it cannot be eternal and therefore has a beginning.


Now,
You can see how I have used known facts to justify my position that the universe has a beginning.

Can you present points on the contrary?
Your disposition of "we cannot know that the universe has an origin" surely is an escapist ideology!

Christian God is not only logical, HE is THE computationally COMPUTERISED GOD. I BELIEVE THAT.

Thank God He is in HeavenSphere. The Atheists, The Witches, Obama Warlocks, This Francis, Saudi Kingdom etc etc are preparing to bring HIM down to Earth.

He is coming back on His Term to build THE NEW JERUSALEMS.

COME SOON LORD JESUS!!!

From Orisa37