₦airaland Forum

Badboiz:
Sometimes I go just read this Mannaguy comment, I go just Dey laugh.

It’s this same Buhari that said increment will improve power production. It has been stated that it actually didn’t improve and has been at the same level for over 7 years. You leave Buhari go find article dey post.

God go help you ooo

The guy's case of extreme stupidity is terminal. Never seen a fellow who is adept at cutting his nose to spite his face. Look at how he deflected the issues by digging up some disjointed articles. Dude surely has a black belt in mumuism.

backbencher:
The reason why Nigeria does not have 24 hours power supply is simple

We aren't paying for 24 hour supply, we are.paying for less than that.

The reason is in the article. The goverment is paying a subsidy.

The reason why the goverment is paying a subsidy is because the discos ad gencos would collapse financially without it.

Especially since the law establishing them made them charge less than the production cost of power.

In 2019,discos were selling power at N20 to 30 naira per kWh. Meanwhile it cost 53 naira to make that one kwh of power.

Now it costs over N73 to make one kwh of power. Discos now charge between 49 to 71 naira per kWh. Most areas pay less than N60 .

You see?

Discos aren't allowed to charge the kind of tarrifs that would enable them make enough cash to pay for much needed improvements. Then there are the nearly 40% of customers, rich poor and even goverment agencies who use power for free.No paying. Nothing.


The law allowing for the privatisation of power did not allow the power companies the right to make a profit . Thus as a result, there isn't enough money to fix things

That is why we are.in.darkness.

Nigerians have to be ready to pay for 24 hour power. You cannot pay N3000 for a car costing 4 million naira. That is what we have been doing for the power sector

For more.on the situation, read the PWC paper "solving the liquidity crunch in the Nigerian power sector"

A page from the report is below. Worth reading.

Oga, as it stands now, buhari is not subsidizing power, he is even making more money from each unit that is being collected whether you used it or not. Buhari is a super thief

[quote author=backbencher post=108740682]Ghanaians pay twice as much as we do for power and don't have as much as 40% of the consumers defaulting either.

They pay in full, they get in full[/quote

They should create more megawatts then and put a reasonable price on it.

I wonder how much they'll want us to pay actually,when people are still earning below 20k per month

Limassol:
How stable is power supply overthere? Do you get upto 18hrs of uniterrupted electricity?

18 hours Sometimes it's 20/21 hours but you must be ready to use prepaid metre. Sometimes it's 24hours but you will pay for it oh! What ppl are doing here is switching over to solar even when there is light, just to save cost .

DubaiLandLord:
Thanks for this information.

I agree with you about light been good in some locations while Is terrible in some locations.

Can solar power Air Conditioning? If yes, nah how much person go need?

I won't say what he said is true,cause I have someone who has two flats and powered them with solar of 150k for each flat,so I don't think that's too much

backbencher:
I see, but then again it doesn't make my argument invalid though.(YOu should also tell those Nigerians who think GHana has great power supply quoting me on this site this fact.)

Below is a page from this report which does a better job than me of explaining what has been going on in the power sector.

I suggest you and everyone else read it.

Thanks for the link. However, Just trying to point out that, the fact Nigerian goverment subsidise power(which in itself is debateable) isn't a justification for the shoddy supply Nigerians are getting. Just for emphasis, take Qatar; the tariffs there is just a mere $00.3 per kilowatt hour - cheap, qualitative and stable supply not the rubbish Africans are getting.

ajericho:
...

If you were in business selling provisions, would you sell all your provisions at N5 for a year, so that you can help the poor?

Things cost money, even power. ANd things don't care if you ar e earning less than N20000 a month...because things are made by people and people also have to be paid for making things for you, and the companies that make things also have to make enough of a profit to among other things raise salaries for the people who make things...people like you and me.

Just imagine the amount Nigerians have spent so far for poor electricity supply in a country that boost to supply power to other African countries. What a shame

okosodo:
Oga, as it stands now, buhari is not subsidizing power, he is even making more money from each unit that is being collected whether you used it or not. Buhari is a super thief

Well you did not read the report above...which states that government paid so and so in subsidy.

PLus BUbu, bad as he is, doesn't personally own a stake in the power sector, discos or gencos.

Finally, the power sector is so cash strapped, that AEDC was taken over by UBA, and the disco supplying the NE was forced out of business. And then most of them can't pay taxes. And haven't been since inception.

dogmart:
That is one big issue. Why will power supply be extremely good in certain states and areas and extremely bad in certain states. I hear of power being uninterrupted for days in certain states
This has never happened in Lagos (not that I know of)
And if you must know, those with lesser power end up paying way more that the ones with better supply.

And if you must know, those with lesser power end up paying way more that the ones with better supply.[/quote]This part i copied got me laughing, we pay heavily here, some people now device a mean of switching over to solar even when there is light just to save cost.

On the issue of some areas having better power supply, bear in mind that Abj is the seat of power and CBD is planned already. It's not that we have light 24/7 but if the whole of Nigeria will have light 20hours and above in a day, no one will complain okay.

Limassol:
Thanks for the link. However, Just trying to point out that, the fact Nigerian goverment subsidise power(which in itself is debateable) isn't a justification for the shoddy supply Nigerians are getting. Just for emphasis, take Qatar; the tariffs there is just a mere $00.3 per kilowatt hour - cheap, qualitative and stable supply not the rubbish Africans are getting.

Qatar is a nation of over 1.3 million people, which produces about 1.2 million barrels of crude per day...just under 100000 barrels of NIgeria's production per day.

As such, Qatar earns enough in oil revenue to subisdise power...yes subsidse power...for 1.3 million people...compared to NIgeria's 210 million people.

TO put it in stark terms

Qatar has a percapita income of 88070 dollars . NIgeria has 5000 percapita income. THus Qatar can affrod power subsides. (Qatar is also smaller than Nigeria, even).

Qatar's fiscal breakeven oil price is 44 dollars per barrel...meaning they are making a profit of 30 dollars per barrel, with oil prices being at 74 dollars per barrel. NIgeria's is 133 dollars per barrel..meaning we lose 60 dollars per barrel of oil sold..and have to take loans to make up the balance...loans which are conditional and not sufficient anyway and the IMF Is already getting angry with us.

backbencher:
As such, Qatar earns enough in oil revenue to subisdise power...yes subsidse power...for 1.3 million people.. NIgeria's 210 million people.

TO put it in stark terms

Qatar has a percapita income of 88070 dollars . NIgeria has 5000 percapita income. THus Qatar can affrod power subsides. (Qatar is also smaller than Nigeria, even).

Qatar's fiscal breakeven oil price is 44 dollars per barrel...meaning they are making a profit of 30 dollars per barrel, with oil prices being at 74 dollars per barrel. NIgeria's is 133 dollars per barrel..meaning we lose 60 dollars per barrel of oil sold..and have to take loans to make up the balance...loans which are conditional and not sufficient anyway and the IMF Is already getting angry with us.

Population and geography surely matters, but so does level of corruption - which seems to be the major reason why since independence, Nigeria is yet to fix its power sector. By the way, am still waiting for a solid argument.

Limassol:
Population and geography surely matters, but so does level of corruption - which seems to be the major reason why since independence, Nigeria is yet to fix its power sector. By the way, am still waiting for a solid argument.

Corruption already makes our bad revenue worse.

The fact is, we have too large a population to rely on just selling oil, agriculture, etc, etc....we need to be a nation that manufactures and sells things that the world can use to make profit. Instead we rely on oil...whose price we don't set, and which is most of the time at prices that don't favor us, leading to issues of financial instability. (Oil prices fluctuate from one high to the other...and so does the revenue)

Add the fact that most of us don't pay taxes...leading to us having this expectation of 'free money' and government having no obligation to run the country well. Because the money for revenue isn't coming from our pocket (Our tax to gdp ratio is 6.4 %, lower than even Niger republic).

Not just Nigeria, most African countries.

backbencher:
Corruption already makes our bad revenue worse.

we have too large a population to rely on just selling oil, agriculture, etc, etc....and sells things that the world can use to make profit. Instead we rely on oil...whose price we don't set, and which is most of the time at prices that don't favor us, leading to issues of financial instability. (Oil prices fluctuate from one high to the other...and so does the revenue)

Add the fact that most of us don't pay taxes...leading to us having this expectation of 'free money' and government having no obligation to run the country well. Because the money for revenue isn't coming from our pocket (Our tax to gdp ratio is 6.4 %, lower than even Niger republic).

Not just Nigeria, most African countries.

That's right, our tax to gdp ratio is among the lowest in the world, i remembered feeling cringy reading that fact. However,nice having you mate, have a lovely day!

They force us to pay their crazy bills and nobody is doing anything

backbencher:
Corruption already makes our bad revenue worse.

The fact is, we have too large a population to rely on just selling oil, agriculture, etc, etc....we need to be a nation that manufactures and sells things that the world can use to make profit. Instead we rely on oil...whose price we don't set, and which is most of the time at prices that don't favor us, leading to issues of financial instability. (Oil prices fluctuate from one high to the other...and so does the revenue)

Add the fact that most of us don't pay taxes...leading to us having this expectation of 'free money' and government having no obligation to run the country well. Because the money for revenue isn't coming from our pocket (Our tax to gdp ratio is 6.4 %, lower than even Niger republic).

Not just Nigeria, most African countries.

The government's dishonesty doesn't encourage people to pay task.
I pay tax, I can't escape it but do I see the results of my tax? No
How will that encourage others to pay?

backbencher:
Yes they are paying more for less because the discos aren't making enough profits for the reasons I have given to improve things.

When 40 percent of your consumers refuse to pay plus prices are set by the goverment , not by the business, then there would be zero improvements being made.

So you think that the fact that they are not making enough profit automatically justifies making people pay more for less?
Even the service that people are paying for, most times they are not supplying the power to match the charges they bring

respect80:
So you think that the fact that they are not making enough profit automatically justifies making people pay more for less?
Even the service that people are paying for, most times they are not supplying the power to match the charges they bring

SO, you expect loss making companies to operate as if they are making great profits?

The fact that they run at a loss due to the points enumerated shows why they can't give you what you want.

Be honest, you want free power.

Good morning to thee.

ayindejimmy:
The government's dishonesty doesn't encourage people to pay task.
I pay tax, I can't escape it but do I see the results of my tax? No
How will that encourage others to pay?

Well, when 70% of taxable Nigerians don't pay income tax, how would you see the result of your taxes?

Expecting 100% performance from taxes only 30% of the taxable population pays is not feasible. (See why we take loans? Oil revenues aren't stable either. Corruption is just the icing on the cake).

Keep in mind that in countries where they see results of their taxes...tax to gdp ratios are around 40-50%. NIgeria is at 6.4%.

MIdified

From the article I linked above, here is the relevant information

In 2018, 19 million Nigerians paid into federal or state coffers, according to government data.

A World Bank report in that year put the country's economically active population at 65 million - so even with rising numbers of taxpayers in recent years, that is still less than 30% paying tax.

You and I can pay all the tax we want,even dash government our entire salaries monthly, but that isn't enough people paying still.

Limassol:
That's right, our tax to gdp ratio is among the lowest in the world, i remembered feeling cringy reading that fact. However,nice having you mate, have a lovely day!

Same to you.

NOte

I don't like making these arguments too. But after reading up about this stuff in my spare time for some years now, I have come to the conclusion that we have issues because we don't pay enough.(Many African countries have those issues, and most of them aren't or haven't been run by Hausa's or Buhari last i checked)

It's painful reading. But truth wasn't meant to be palatable.

backbencher:
As an assignment...read this

Solving the liquidity crunch in the power sector.

Below is a summary of what I have been saying

You cannot run things on magical thinking. And stop shouting at me. Shout at your fellow countrymen and women and government agencies who don't pay. Not people like us who do pay

The same PWC report that you have shared several times and I still maintain that the DISCOs only shared what they want us to see (see page 27), it is largely doctored and yes they have motive - tax evasion(see page 33).

In page 17 of the PWC report, it was stated and I quote "It is believed that metering customers will reduce the liquidity challenges currently grappling the power sector but meter delivery progress has been slow so far". If meter delivery will reduce liquidity challenge, won't it be wise to focus on that first? Why has the progress been so slow? So much so that the government had to take up the responsibility. And even then, they still cornered the meters.

In page 31 of the same report, PWC suggested a tariff of N80/kwh(from the then N53/kwh) @ 50% supply to industries. That's an increase of N27. According to them, it will generate about N400b/annum. They have since increased the cost for residences from N38 to N57(an increase of N19) yet they're still grappling with how much again? N260b? Isn't that "magical"?
And I haven't factored in the tariff for industries o.

These guys claim to run at about 50% loss which the government has to subsidise (but you and I both know that this means that they will be owed because the government will not pay). Is there any company in the world that can withstand a 50% loss for one whole year and still remain functional? Not even the TESLAs or Amazons can do that. Yet these guys renew their licences every four years to continue to run at a loss. Isn't that "magical"?

NB: I'm sorry if I came across as "shouting" in my last comment. It was never my intention. I only wanted to emphasise those words.

emorse:
The same PWC report that you have shared several times and I still maintain that the DISCOs only shared what they want us to see (see page 27), it is largely doctored and yes they have motive - tax evasion(see page 33).

In page 17 of the PWC report, it was stated and I quote "It is believed that metering customers will reduce the liquidity challenges currently grappling the power sector but meter delivery progress has been slow so far". If meter delivery will reduce liquidity challenge, won't it be wise to focus on that first? Why has the progress been so slow? So much so that the government had to take up the responsibility. And even then, they still cornered the meters.

In page 31 of the same report, PWC suggested a tariff of N80/kwh(from the then N53/kwh) @ 50% supply to industries. That's an increase of N27. According to them, it will generate about N400b/annum. They have since increased the cost for residences from N38 to N57(an increase of N19) yet they're still grappling with how much again? N260b? Isn't that "magical"?
And I haven't factored in the tariff for industries o.

These guys claim to run at about 50% loss which the government has to subsidise (but you and I both know that this means that they will be owed because the government will not pay). Is there any company in the world that can withstand a 50% loss for one whole year and still remain functional? Not even the TESLAs or Amazons can do that. Yet these guys renew their licences every four years to continue to run at a loss. Isn't that "magical"?

NB: I'm sorry if I came across as "shouting" in my last comment. It was never my intention. I only wanted to emphasise those words.

Well, since you think the report is 'doctored' i can't help you there.

Your problem is that your mind is fixed. Anything challenging your mindset about the power supply situation in Nigeria must be 'doctored'

Also, you want free power...or 24 hour power without paying anything for it. You can't get that. It's not realistic. And it is that attitude that led us to having bad power in the first place.

Good morning. Apology accepted.

P.S At the time they suggested N80 per kwh, Nigerians were paying N20-30 PER KWH. And then again it was only 66% of Nigerians actually paying. Making a loss, from very low tariffs, plus people not paying does not equal enough money to fix things.

The alternative is a money tree ...which doesn't exist.

Plus you missed the point...government controlled prices for power. Controlled prices usually lead to economic disasters...since most of them don't take into account things like cost of maintenance, production, staff welfare, etc.

GSM works because Obasanjo allowed them to charge as much as they liked, meaning they made rip roaring profits...and then used it to build our telecom network from scratch. NO government money at all. And prices did come down eventually.

backbencher:
Well, when 70% of taxable Nigerians don't pay income tax, how would you see the result of your taxes?

Expecting 100% performance from taxes only 30% of the taxable population pays is not feasible. (See why we take loans? Oil revenues aren't stable either. Corruption is just the icing on the cake).

Keep in mind that in countries where they see results of their taxes...tax to gdp ratios are around 40-50%. NIgeria is at 6.4%.

MIdified

From the article I linked above, here is the relevant information



You and I can pay all the tax we want,even dash government our entire salaries monthly, but that isn't enough people paying still.

I get your point but that enough people aren't paying is largely due to the lack of creativity and sincerity of people in Govt.
Many big and powerful men evade tax. Just look at the ostensive and wasteful display of taxable wealth by celebrities.
If those ppl are taxed effectively it'll go a longer way than the little people like me pay as tax.
The govt just lacked the political will to increase tax revenue. Rather, their inventive way is asking the poor to pay more.
Take for example the electricity sector, more than 60% of Nigerian household are on estimated billing. We are not told what we consume but made to pay power or no power.
I run a school. I had to do away with Nepa because it more economical to use gen with the crazy bills I get.
Same with my church.

It is very shameful that no administration past or present has ever been able to tackle the issue of epileptic power supply in the country, very shameful.

backbencher:
If you were in business selling provisions, would you sell all your provisions at N5 for a year, so that you can help the poor?

Things cost money, even power. ANd things don't care if you ar e earning less than N20000 a month...because things are made by people and people also have to be paid for making things for you, and the companies that make things also have to make enough of a profit to among other things raise salaries for the people who make things...people like you and me.

This is no private business,so you're saying Nigerians have to pay the money they don't have to have stable electricity?

Just say Nigerian government are useless, they've been borrowing for electricity projects for decades and it doesn't get any better but worse.

Stop defending these thieves

ayindejimmy:
I get your point but that enough people aren't paying is largely due to the lack of creativity and sincerity of people in Govt.
Many big and powerful men evade tax. Just look at the ostensive and wasteful display of taxable wealth by celebrities.
If those ppl are taxed effectively it'll go a longer way than the little people like me pay as tax.
The govt just lacked the political will to increase tax revenue. Rather, their inventive way is asking the poor to pay more.

Even in developed countries, many rich and powerful people there evade taxes well well, and have been doing so for years. Some even move to 'tax free havens' to avoid paying taxes.(eg James Dyson of the UK...who made a fortune from selling vacuum cleaners.).

Plus, people abroad spend time putting their government under pressure...not like Nigeria, where we come, vote on election day, and go home (and even abuse the few of us who put pressure on government, unless the government is not made up of people from our side, then it's all good!)

backbencher:
Even in developed countries, many rich and powerful people there evade taxes well well, and have been doing so for years. Some even move to 'tax free havens' to avoid paying taxes.(eg James Dyson of the UK...who made a fortune from selling vacuum cleaners.).

Plus, people abroad spend time putting their government under pressure...not like Nigeria, where we come, vote on election day, and go home (and even abuse the few of us who put pressure on government, unless the government is not made up of people from our side, then it's all good!)

I guess it's time for a revolution then

ajericho:
This is no private business,so you're saying Nigerians have to pay the money they don't have to have stable electricity?

They are private owned businesses, 60% private owned. GENCOS are even 100% owned by private companies. Government only runs transmission now.

Just say Nigerian government are useless, they've been borrowing for electricity projects for decades and it doesn't get any better but worse

OKay, the government is useless...and yes, I agree with that sentiment. (I'm someone who thiks all NIgerian governments have failed since independence, so you won't get much argument from me)

And a big sign of government uselessness is price controls on the power sector. Tried many times in many countries, and failed every time.(The communist countries that used to do it all now run private power companies...with no government price controls!).

Stop defending these thieves

Defending the right of business to make a profit so that they can improve things, and even pay taxes (power companies are so broke that they need government subsides to stay afloat, and also cannot pay taxes)...is now defending thieves? Your thought process is weird.

ayindejimmy:
I get your point but that enough people aren't paying is largely due to the lack of creativity and sincerity of people in Govt.
Many big and powerful men evade tax. Just look at the ostensive and wasteful display of taxable wealth by celebrities.
If those ppl are taxed effectively it'll go a longer way than the little people like me pay as tax.
The govt just lacked the political will to increase tax revenue. Rather, their inventive way is asking the poor to pay more.

Why don't the government start with reducing the cost of governing,

It's funny how this government churn out trillions of naira and borrow millions of dollars with nothing to show for it for almost 8yrs now,

It's true we have wealthy people evading taxes,but who would want to pay tax to a government that you know would embezzle the money.

And how many people can actually afford tax in this country?

Hmm