₦airaland Forum

MaxInDHouse:
That's what ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE of God's word can mean for you!
He (God) doesn't feel comfortable with the acts of wicked people {Genesis 6:5-6 compare to Habakkuk 1:13} so He will not like to remember them since the memory of them will bring back their evil deeds to sadden Him. Psalms 9:17 compare to Proverbs 27:11

You paint the picture of a God is soft and fluffy Teddy Bear.
Even His name is fearfull

Deu 28:58:
"If you will not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;"

Exo 23:27:
"I will send my fear before you, and will destroy all the people to whom you shall come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you."

Deu 10:20:
"You shall fear the LORD your God; him shall you serve, and to him shall you hold, and swear by his name."

Why should we fear this kind of your teddy soft God?

MaxInDHouse:
The second death refers to what will later happen to resurrected ones after Christ's 1,000 year reign. Before Jesus begin ruling the earth he will first exterminate all those who aren't ready to obey him {Luke 19:27} so it's during his reign that he will begin to raise the death (only those who are righteous from God's standpoint and idol worshipers who lived by conscience because they never had the opportunity to know the true God)
It's the Christians that will be resurrected first because they already know God's plan to renovate the earth, while they're doing this those who served God before Christ will also be resurrected before pagans who only lived by conscience. After the resurrection of both then a global training will begin because we must become perfect before we can be ushered into everlasting life.
During that global training anyone who is not ready to live by the things we are learning by then will die once he is 100 years old {Isaiah 65:20} after 1,000 years Satan who has been locked somewhere so as not to distract people will be released to come and do the final test for billions of PERFECT people {Revelations 20:7-8} all those who still follow Satan after they've been certified as PERFECT will be destroyed all with Satan, by that time what the Bible book of Romans 5:12 is no longer the cause of their death but what they chose to do when they find themselves in the same condition that Adam and Eve found themselves in the beginning {Revelations 20:11-14} So they're dying the SECOND TIME not because of Adamic sin but due to their own rebelliousness! Revelations 20:15

Let's say I don't have any problem with this, however, that is not what I am speaking about.

Don't you think that the resurrection of the ungodly dead mean that they were NOT forgotten by God?

They have to be remembered for them to be resurrected. This resurrection is BEFORE the second Death.

MaxInDHouse:
Let's resolve the case of first and second death then we will go into Jesus' parable to discuss each symbolic term!

Okay, I'm waiting!

Irupetepete:
All these are lies..
I was dead for over an hour this year, I saw nothing..
I repeat, you see nothing.
When I woke up, I could have fabricated convincing lies, atleast more than 70 people saw me lying dead..
If I told them I saw things, they will believe and help spread the lies..
So if anybody tells you he died, woke up and saw things, slap sense into their empty heads

Not everyone remembers their NDE. It's not an experience unique to Christians alone.

The Driver of my department had one NDE experience. He was trying to cross a river and two tall men came to him and said: young man, if you cross this river, there is no coming back! He turned to look at them and suddenly discovered that he had slumped and people were trying to revive him.

This other one happened to a woman in my church: Mrs Ajulo. She had been sick for some time and brethren from the church went to visit her in the hospital. They were all chatting until Mrs Ajulo stopped to tell them: "can't you see them..?", "The Angels have come for me..."...she was the only one who could see the Angels as the visiting brethren were confused about the sudden change in conversation. She suddenly began to briefly speak in tongues and slumped on the bed. The brethren ran to call in the Nurses...she was pronounced dead.

Less than 30% of those who were resuscitated has NDE report to give. More than 90% of these don't publish their testimonies.

TenQ:
Less than 30% of those who were resuscitated has NDE report to give. More than 90% of these don't publish their testimonies.

you only believed what they told you, you didn't witness it...
You see nothing

TenQ:
You paint the picture of a God is soft and fluffy Teddy Bear.
Even His name is fearfull

Deu 28:58:
"If you will not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD;"

Exo 23:27:
"I will send my fear before you, and will destroy all the people to whom you shall come, and I will make all your enemies turn their backs to you."

Deu 10:20:
"You shall fear the LORD your God; him shall you serve, and to him shall you hold, and swear by his name."

Why should we fear this kind of your teddy soft God?

Fear is the word that comes to the minds of the disobedient and rebellious {Hebrews 10:26-27} as for loyal and faithful ones who are striving to imitate JEHOVAH He is our God, Father and dearest Friend.
That's the picture Jesus painted of the one who sent him whenever he refers to Him as "FATHER" Luke 11:13

TenQ:
Let's say I don't have any problem with this, however, that is not what I am speaking about.

Don't you think that the resurrection of the ungodly dead mean that they were NOT forgotten by God?

There is a misconception on the part of readers here, it's three categories of people:
The RIGHTEOUS~ People who knew God's laws and struggled to live by it even when others around them ignore God's righteous standard.

The UNRIGHTEOUS~ People who never lived by God's laws, it may be that such ones don't know anything about it so God view them as unrighteous but they are not WICKED.

The WICKED~ People who ignored God's laws and rendered their God's given conscience dead. This category are the ones God will not remember during the resurrection!

TenQ:
They have to be remembered for them to be resurrected. This resurrection is BEFORE the second Death.
Okay, I'm waiting!

God only remembers good people they may be those who knew and lived by his laws or good people from their own reasonings doing everything they know is good to others based on their conscience even when they don't know God's laws.
But as for those who deliberately chose to be wicked, they will not be remembered!

Irupetepete:
you only believed what they told you, you didn't witness it...
You see nothing

Since you are among the 70% of those who has nothing to say about death, such are not even aware that they were dead in the first place.
There's nothing special about you bro!

MaxInDHouse:
Fear is the word that comes to the minds of the disobedient and rebellious {Hebrews 10:26-27} as for loyal and faithful ones who are striving to imitate JEHOVAH He is our God, Father and dearest Friend.
That's the picture Jesus painted of the one who sent him whenever he refers to Him as "FATHER" Luke 11:13

In other words, just as described by you, God is nothing to be feared.
If humans can hardly stand before Angels, how do you think he could stand before God (except God extend such grace to him)?

MaxInDHouse:
There is a misconception on the part of readers here, it's three categories of people:
The RIGHTEOUS~ People who knew God's laws and struggled to live by it even when others around them ignore God's righteous standard.

The UNRIGHTEOUS~ People who never lived by God's laws, it may be that such ones don't know anything about it so God view them as unrighteous but they are not WICKED.

The WICKED~ People who ignored God's laws and rendered their God's given conscience dead. This category are the ones God will not remember during the resurrection!

I wish this is exactly the way the bible distinctively defined the deference between the righteous, unrighteous and wicked people.
The definition is no biblical basis.

Rev 20:15:
"And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Rev 21:8:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Shouldn't you classify fornicators as unrighteous rather than wicked (from your definition). We know nice people whose only sin seem to be this!

MaxInDHouse:
God only remembers good people they may be those who knew and lived by his laws or good people from their own reasonings doing everything they know is good to others based on their conscience even when they don't know God's laws.
But as for those who deliberately chose to be wicked, they will not be remembered!

You have still just repeated your self without answering the questions.

Don't you think that the resurrection of the ungodly dead mean that they were NOT forgotten by God?

Rom 1:18:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

1Cor 6:9:
"Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"

1Jn 5:17:
"All unrighteousness is sin: and
there is a sin not to death."

This is what the scriptures say about the unrighteous!


YOU PROMISED to say what EACH of the symbols mean in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man

TenQ:
In other words, just as described by you, God is nothing to be feared.
If humans can hardly stand before Angels, how do you think he could stand before God (except God extend such grace to him)?

Good Morning!
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him! John 1:18

Whenever anyone talks to you about FEAR for the true God please think about the person who said:

Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9

Does Jesus' attitude commands a fearful sight?

Please do not compare God's attributes to that of any angel because even though they are also His children in the spirit realms He doesn't introduce any of them to us as the model to remember whenever we think about Him, the one and only character God presented to us is Jesus {Hebrews 1:5 compare to John 3:16} so my friend look onto Jesus that's the exact photocopy of our God! Colossians 1:15

TenQ:
I wish this is exactly the way the bible distinctively defined the deference between the righteous, unrighteous and wicked people.
The definition is no biblical basis.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, how i wish you concentrate on the person who has been chosen to do the JUDGING?
My friend, always think about Jesus!
God will not do a single thing about the good or bad people "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth" Matthew 28:18
So the JUDGING has been given to God's only begotten Son, therefore whoever Jesus wants to live will live and anyone Jesus condemns is a walking corpse! Luke 9:60
How do we arrive at the RIGHTEOUS, UNRIGHTEOUS and WICKED setting?
Well it's by meditating thoroughly on Jesus' utterances! Proverbs 2:1-5
Jesus is the coolest person to deal with so RIGHTEOUS ones who are humble like little children will enjoy his company {Matthew 11:28-30} UNRIGHTEOUS ones who feels sober after admitting their blunders are tenderly cared for by our Master, Lord and King {Luke 7:38-50; 23:39-43} because a humble and obedient friend died our King shed tears {John 11:35} but as for the WICKED who deliberately chose to be evil our King will exterminate them! Luke 19:27
So meditate on that, believe in the only begotten Son of God and stop doubting the RIGHTEOUS JUDGE! Isaiah 11:4

TenQ:
Rev 20:15:
"And whoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Rev 21:8:
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."
Shouldn't you classify fornicators as unrighteous rather than wicked (from your definition). We know nice people whose only sin seem to be this!
You have still just repeated your self without answering the questions.
Don't you think that the resurrection of the ungodly dead mean that they were NOT forgotten by God?
Rom 1:18:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"
1Cor 6:9:
"Know you not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"
1Jn 5:17:
"All unrighteousness is sin: and
there is a sin not to death."
This is what the scriptures say about the unrighteous!

All of us are unrighteous before we know the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God {Psalms 14:3 compare to 1Corinthians 6:11} and we made the U-turn! Ephesians 4:22-24
So it's only those who remain adamant that's causing heartburn for the Holy One of Israel {Genesis 6:6} that's why God's word defined them as WICKED!

TenQ:
YOU PROMISED to say what EACH of the symbols mean in the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man

I will do that but first of all i want you to see clearly the difference between the RIGHTEOUS, UNRIGHTEOUS and WICKED!

MaxInDHouse:
Good Morning!
No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is at the Father’s side is the one who has explained Him! John 1:18

Whenever anyone talks to you about FEAR for the true God please think about the person who said:

Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father also. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9

Does Jesus' attitude commands a fearful sight?

Please do not compare God's attributes to that of any angel because even though they are also His children in the spirit realms He doesn't introduce any of them to us as the model to remember whenever we think about Him, the one and only character God presented to us is Jesus {Hebrews 1:5 compare to John 3:16} so my friend look onto Jesus that's the exact photocopy of our God! Colossians 1:15

I think you attribute "weakness" to Christ in human form as the gentle one who cannot hurt a fly. Do not forget that it was the same Jesus who VIOLENTLY drove out the people buying and selling in the temple.
Isn't Christ the same one who will rule the earth as with a rod of iron?
Rev 19:15:
"And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Rev 1:17:
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand on me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Jesus is not as "teddybear-gentle" as you think sir!

MaxInDHouse:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, how i wish you concentrate on the person who has been chosen to do the JUDGING?
My friend, always think about Jesus!
God will not do a single thing about the good or bad people "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth" Matthew 28:18
So the JUDGING has been given to God's only begotten Son, therefore whoever Jesus wants to live will live and anyone Jesus condemns is a walking corpse! Luke 9:60
How do we arrive at the RIGHTEOUS, UNRIGHTEOUS and WICKED setting?
Well it's by meditating thoroughly on Jesus' utterances! Proverbs 2:1-5
Jesus is the coolest person to deal with so RIGHTEOUS ones who are humble like little children will enjoy his company {Matthew 11:28-30} UNRIGHTEOUS ones who feels sober after knowing their blunders are tenderly cared for by our Master, Lord and King {Luke 7:38-50} because a humble and obedient friend died our King shed tears {John 11:35} but as for the WICKED who deliberately chose to be evil our King will exterminate them! Luke 19:27
So meditate on that, believe in the only begotten Son of God and stop doubting the RIGHTEOUS JUDGE! Isaiah 11:4

All of us are unrighteous before we know the RIGHTEOUSNESS of God {Psalms 14:3 compare to 1Corinthians 6:11} and we made the U-turn! Ephesians 4:22-24
So it's only those who remain adamant that's causing heartburn for the Holy One of Israel {Genesis 6:6} that's why God's word defined them as WICKED!

The bible make it clear that NO one is truely righteous before God.
Rom 3:10:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Rom 3:23:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

We were JUSTIFIED because of God's grace through the atonement of Christ through our FAITH in Him.

What this means is that there are just two categories of people
1. The righteous ones who became JUSTIFIED through Christ
2. The Unrighteous ones who have NOT being justified by Christ.

A wicked person is a relative term (as can only be judged by God) within the class of the unrighteous ones.
Rom 1:18:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

2Ths 2:12:
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

MaxInDHouse:
I will do that but first of all i want you to see clearly the difference between the RIGHTEOUS, UNRIGHTEOUS and WICKED!

Rom 1:29:
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,"

You can see above that wickedness is not another class but example of unrighteousness like the others like deciet, envy etc

1Jn 5:19:
"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness."

If one is not righteous, he can only be in wickedness

TenQ:
I think you attribute "weakness" to Christ in human form as the gentle one who cannot hurt a fly. Do not forget that it was the same Jesus who VIOLENTLY drove out the people buying and selling in the temple.
Isn't Christ the same one who will rule the earth as with a rod of iron?
Rev 19:15:
"And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God."

Rev 1:17:
"And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand on me, saying to me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:"

Jesus is not as "teddybear-gentle" as you think sir!

Well Jesus made us understand that our own God is not a monster!

TenQ:
The bible make it clear that NO one is truely righteous before God.
Rom 3:10:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"

Rom 3:23:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

We were JUSTIFIED because of God's grace through the atonement of Christ through our FAITH in Him.

What this means is that there are just two categories of people
1. The righteous ones who became JUSTIFIED through Christ
2. The Unrighteous ones who have NOT being justified by Christ.

A wicked person is a relative term (as can only be judged by God) within the class of the unrighteous ones.
Rom 1:18:
"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;"

2Ths 2:12:
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."



Rom 1:29:
"Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,"

You can see above that wickedness is not another class but example of unrighteousness like the others like deciet, envy etc

1Jn 5:19:
"And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness."

If one is not righteous, he can only be in wickedness

If we are all unrighteous then it's humility and obedience that makes us different from the WICKED.
The thief executed beside Jesus was unrighteous before his convertion but he is not WICKED, WHY? Because he humbly accepted the truth after thorough meditation on the life and ministry of Jesus so he later knew that if God's promise about the Messiah is fulfilled in his own eyes then he needs to repent and turn to God!
Well there's no need for arguments it's simple you talk about your own God while i also talk about my own God! Titus 3:9

Irupetepete:
All these are lies..
I was dead for over an hour this year, I saw nothing..
I repeat, you see nothing.
When I woke up, I could have fabricated convincing lies, atleast more than 70 people saw me lying dead..
If I told them I saw things, they will believe and help spread the lies..
So if anybody tells you he died, woke up and saw things, slap sense into their empty heads

You were dead for over an hour??
What is your definition of death?
Coma?

TenQ:
Not everyone remembers their NDE. It's not an experience unique to Christians alone.

The Driver of my department had one NDE experience. He was trying to cross a river and two tall men came to him and said: young man, if you cross this river, there is no coming back! He turned to look at them and suddenly discovered that he had slumped and people were trying to revive him.

This other one happened to a woman in my church: Mrs Ajulo. She had been sick for some time and brethren from the church went to visit her in the hospital. They were all chatting until Mrs Ajulo stopped to tell them: "can't you see them..?", "The Angels have come for me..."...she was the only one who could see the Angels as the visiting brethren were confused about the sudden change in conversation. She suddenly began to briefly speak in tongues and slumped on the bed. The brethren ran to call in the Nurses...she was pronounced dead.

Less than 30% of those who were resuscitated has NDE report to give. More than 90% of these don't publish their testimonies.

Well shouldn't everybody who nearly dies be having NDEs if there was truly an objective experience called afterlife?

Whatever your malfunctioning brain generates is dependent on your beliefs.

“Reverend" Howard Pittman
Somewhere in that period of time when the physicians were working on me, I came to myself and realized that I was dying. Knowing that only God could give me back my life and that only God could change this appointed time to die, I prayed a strange prayer. My prayer was that God would allow me to appear before His throne and pleaded for an extension of my physical life. In any other time and place this sort of prayer would be unusual, however, all of this was planned by God to ultimately serve His purpose. The thought to pray such a prayer was instilled in my mind by the Holy Spirit ..........When I first arrived in the Second Heaven, I knew immediately in what direction I must go to reach the Third Heaven where God was. I don't know how I knew that, but I did. I also knew that if I was going to get my prayer answered, I was going to have to appear before God the Father in the Third Heaven. I was aware that I was traveling in that spirit world under the protection of the Holy Spirit, and that the angels who were escorting me were also moving about under the protection of the Holy Spirit. It might seem strange to you, the reader, that the angels needed the protection of the Holy Spirit, but remember where we were, the Second Heaven. The Second Heaven is the place where Satan presently has his throne located. Satan is not yet in Hell although Hell is to be his final destiny.

Now this is the account of "heaven" according to a sopona devotee.

The following anecdote was related by a devotee. He was confirmed in his belief in the existence of the gods and as helpers in the government of the world from the following incident. Said he, " A young man once fell into a swoon, and having revived he related the vision hich he had seen. He said he saw the GREAT GOD sitting on a throne, covered with a flowing garment, attended on His right by Orisanla(Obatala) and left by Ifa his counsellors: behind him was a pit into which the condemned were cast. Ogun and sopona were ministers of his vengeance to execute justice upon offenders. Ogun armed with 4000 swords (or daggers) went out daily to slay victims, his food being the blood of the slain. sopona also had 4000 viols hung about his body. His als was the work of destruction as he disappeared immediately for another vctim after presenting one. Sango also appeared, a mighty destroyer who, when about to set forth on his journey to earth, used to be cautioned by both Orisanla and Ifa to deal gently with their respective worshippers.

LordReed:
No man! He will still catch you. If he tells you the sky is blue, ask him which resources on your land is he after so that you can negotiate a price. If you look at the sky, he will steal the land from under you and tell you its a "Protectorate".

"I hereby claim this land, and do so call it Jamestown."

Gbam.

KnownUnknown:
After declaring it a “Protectorate” he commences an orgy of rape, rapine, and kidnapping, then calls his victims “savages”. Don’t worry though, God sent him.

The best part is that your brothers/sisters start nodding in agreement and calling themselves “savages”.

Wahallahi!

DeepSight:
"I hereby claim this land, and do so call it Jamestown."

Gbam.

Then baptise your children and call them James or Elisabeth.

LordReed:
Then baptise your children and call them James or Elisabeth.

And behold!
Take this miniature Roman instrument of execution
Which hath a miniature image of a dead man nailed to it
And lo!
Hold it and treasure it
For it is salvation for you!
But behold!
Do not make any graven images of your own
And do not treasure them
For behold!
Such shall be damnation for you!

LordReed:
Well shouldn't everybody who nearly dies be having NDEs if there was truly an objective experience called afterlife?

Life is different or like they say not balanced. Two plants in the same place planted same day don't grow the same way. Same goes for twins or children or animals born the same day and even time. You don't need or require the same experience(s). My none dramatic conversion is as valid as Paul's dramatic conversion. Not everyone dreams or at least remembers dreams. All living cells in your body are not even the same, so why do you presume all deaths(NDEs) must be the same way?

LordReed:
Well shouldn't everybody who nearly dies be having NDEs if there was truly an objective experience called afterlife?

Are you a strict materialist, and do you believe that man you are strictly physical and no more.

DeepSight:
Are you a strict materialist, and do you believe that man you are strictly physical and no more.

From what I have learnt I would say I am a methodological naturalist which in summary means all ways that I can meaningfully know things are material. If there is some other realm it will have to be able to be measured in a way that makes sense to me or else it remains merely an untested proposition.

So far the only thing that has been verified is that man is a physical being with no other otherworldly components in evidence.

Image123:
Life is different or like they say not balanced. Two plants in the same place planted same day don't grow the same way. Same goes for twins or children or animals born the same day and even time. You don't need or require the same experience(s). My none dramatic conversion is as valid as Paul's dramatic conversion. Not everyone dreams or at least remembers dreams. All living cells in your body are not even the same, so why do you presume all deaths(NDEs) must be the same way?

All human babies when they are born, irrespective of skin colour or circumstances of their birth or whether their parents are rich or poor, they must breathe oxygen. There are facts about this life that are incontrovertible and must be experienced as a baseline by all living humans. To suggest that there is no baseline from which all so called afterlife can be experienced is more than an obvious dodge.

LordReed:
From what I have learnt I would say I am a methodological naturalist which in summary means all ways that I can meaningfully know things are material. If there is some other realm it will have to be able to be measured in a way that makes sense to me or else it remains merely an untested proposition.

So far the only thing that has been verified is that man is a physical being with no other otherworldly components in evidence.

Would you thus say that your sensing of things is that your body is you?
That your sense of self is equivalent to and no more than your body, physical senses and your bodily effects?

Whereof personality?

Is it not true that we mostly live in a realm of concepts and ideas which are in fact not physical?

Is it possible to tell a meaningful story of your life if you limit all meaning to the feelings, movements and senses of your body?

LordReed:
To suggest that there is no baseline from which all so called afterlife can be experienced is more than an obvious dodge.

I once asked if there is an after-after life?
If there is a afterlife, why not an after-after life. Hell, why not a before-life?
They like that body, spirit, and soul shit. So, the spirit was preeminent in the before-life, the body takes precedence in life-life, and the soul lives forever ever neverland in after-life.
Of course, my interlocutor’s brain shut down.

DeepSight:
Would you thus say that your sensing of things is that your body is you?
That your sense of self is equivalent to and no more than your body, physical senses and your bodily effects?

Whereof personality?

Is it not true that we mostly live in a realm of concepts and ideas which are in fact not physical?

Is it possible to tell a meaningful story of your life if you limit all meaning to the feelings, movements and senses of your body?

There is a limitation with how language can describe the conglomeration that we call the self. The self is both the mental construct and the physical body which gives raise to the mental construct. Those concepts and ideas are all housed within the mental constructs of the individual which in turn is housed in the physical body of the individual. Without the physical body the mental construct cannot exist, well that is as far as we can tell.

KnownUnknown:
I once asked if there is an after-after life?
If there is a afterlife, why not an after-after life. Hell, why not a before-life?
They like that body, spirit, and soul shit. So, the spirit was preeminent in the before-life, the body takes precedence in life-life, and the soul lives forever ever neverland in after-life.
Of course, my interlocutor’s brain shut down.

All I ask from anyone proposing anything other what we can see , just produce the evidence. I think it would be more interesting to debate the evidence than to continue with all manner of sophistry.

LordReed:
There is a limitation with how language can describe the conglomeration that we call the self. The self is both the mental construct and the physical body which gives raise to the mental construct. Those concepts and ideas are all housed within the mental constructs of the individual which in turn is housed in the physical body of the individual. Without the physical body the mental construct cannot exist, well that is as far as we can tell.

Do you recognize that to sustain this, you will have to posit a world wherein the micro organisms/ cells and neurons that form your body are imbued with such individual intention and motivation which coalesce into a collective purpose?

At a further level do you recognize how this worldview must necessarily eliminate personal and moral responsibility for any actions of any kind?

DeepSight:
Do you recognize that to sustain this, you will have to posit a world wherein the micro organisms/ cells and neurons that form your body are imbued with such individual intention and motivation which coalesce into a collective purpose?

At a further level do you recognize how this worldview must necessarily eliminate personal and moral responsibility for any actions of any kind?

Huh? These are huge conjectures to make just from what I expressed. I dunno how you can get to cells have individual intention from "the self is a both the mental construct and physical body". What in my statement leads you to such a conjecture?

How does my worldview eliminate personal responsibility? You are the body taking action, how can that absolve one of personal responsibility?

Ok

LordReed:
Well shouldn't everybody who nearly dies be having NDEs if there was truly an objective experience called afterlife?

I think it's a question of two things
1. How far the person was gone. (Was the person just left in limbo or fetched).
2. Ability to recall the experience as I don't think it is different from having a dream except that it looks/feel more real (some people routinely forget their dream experiences).

The fact that they happen to a significant number of people who have flat lined is the key thing. I've heard a report where a blast Nd woman reported similar stories with the sighted. The most striking for me is when the "dead" is able to witness what was happening at the point of death in the physical (like what the doctors/medics were doing and report of events at the point of death)

Here is a NON Christian influenced NDE for your perusal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btacKoGvVtM

MaxInDHouse:
Well Jesus made us understand that our own God is not a monster!


If we are all unrighteous then it's humility and obedience that makes us different from the WICKED.
The thief executed beside Jesus was unrighteous before his convertion but he is not WICKED, WHY? Because he humbly accepted the truth after thorough meditation on the life and ministry of Jesus so he later knew that if God's promise about the Messiah is fulfilled in his own eyes then he needs to repent and turn to God!
Well there's no need for arguments it's simple you talk about your own God while i also talk about my own God! Titus 3:9

I don't think their is any argument here. The point is that our righteousness was imputed to us because we TRUSTED in Christ. Even the thief on the cross became righteous simply because he trusted Christ enough for his salvation.
Luk 23:42:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

I guess that was why the bible says:
Eph 2:8-9:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Our imputed righteousness for salvation is NOT by WORKS of RIGHTEOUSNESS but of FAITH in Christ


Sorry it looks like an argument but it isn't. We were probably saying the same thing in different words.

I am still interested in the symbolic interpretation of the parable of Lazarus. Thanks

TenQ:
I don't think their is any argument here. The point is that our righteousness was imputed to us because we TRUSTED in Christ. Even the thief on the cross became righteous simply because he trusted Christ enough for his salvation.
Luk 23:42:
"And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom."

I guess that was why the bible says:
Eph 2:8-9:
"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Our imputed righteousness for salvation is NOT by WORKS of RIGHTEOUSNESS but of FAITH in Christ


Sorry it looks like an argument but it isn't. We were probably saying the same thing in different words.

I am still interested in the symbolic interpretation of the parable of Lazarus. Thanks

The highlighted is the keyword!
You and i aren't saying the same thing!

There are differences in the three and i've explained every detail but it's like you want to see everything written word for word which is not possible.

Those declared RIGHTEOUS before Jesus never saw nor heard him so how can they become righteous through faith in the things they never heard? Romans 10:14
God awarded them that because they were willing to put faith in the first things they heard which wasn't spoken by Jesus himself but prophecies pointing to the coming of Messiah and they accepted it obediently.

The UNRIGHTEOUS are people who never heard the things of God before but lived by their conscience so God will also remember them even though they never lived up to the things He commanded unlike those declared RIGHTEOUS through their WORKS of FAITH!

The WICKED are those who deliberately chose to be evil so to whatever God says they will not yield so far nothing is hindering them from doing whatever they like. God will not remember this category during the resurrection because they dismissed God in all their dealings. Psalms 9:17

If you won't agree with this then there is no need for further discussion because it will lead to endless arguments! 1Timothy 6:4

Thanks for your time!

MaxInDHouse:
The highlighted is the keyword!
You and i aren't saying the same thing!

There are differences in the three and i've explained every detail but it's like you want to see everything written word for word which is not possible.

Those declared RIGHTEOUS before Jesus never saw nor heard him so how can they become righteous through faith in the things they never heard? Romans 10:14
God awarded them that because they were willing to put faith in the first things they heard which wasn't spoken by Jesus himself but prophecies pointing to the coming of Messiah and they accepted it obediently.

The UNRIGHTEOUS are people who never heard the things of God before but lived by their conscience so God will also remember them even though they never lived up to the things He commanded unlike those declared RIGHTEOUS through their WORKS of FAITH!

The WICKED are those who deliberately chose to be evil so to whatever God says they will not yield so far nothing is hindering them from doing whatever they like. God will not remember this category during the resurrection because they dismissed God in all their dealings. Psalms 9:17

If you won't agree with this then there is no need for further discussion because it will lead to endless arguments! 1Timothy 6:4

Thanks for your time!

Okay, I agree with your points.