BanyXchi:
I suspect this guy is a troll from another tribe.. how can someone say Yoruba came from the word 'Yagba'? So many mentally deranged lunatics on this forum.

There is actually such an hypotheses from Prof. Akin Ogundiran; and the hypotheses is tenable.

So that’s not even my bone of contention with the guy.

The contention with him is his statement that the term “Yoruba” is a term which emerged quite recently in the 19th century ~i.e. the 1800s.

And he even dared attribute this his fallacy of “recent ethnic term” to Prof. Akin Ogundiran, when in fact this Professor emphasized the precise opposite—i.e. that the name emerged in the 1500s or even much earlier.

You may be right. He’s probably another troll who is bent on spreading the fallacy of “Yoruba” being of a rElAtIvELy mOdErN aRbiTrARy uMbReLLa TeRm.

•

TAO11:

You may be right. He’s probably another troll who is bent on spreading the fallacy of “Yoruba” being of a rElAtIvELy mOdErN aRbiTrARy uMbReLLa TeRm.

•

It's relatively modern, rest please madam. Yes, I'm a troll. Satisfied?

LightOnScams:
It's relatively modern, rest please madam. Yes, I'm a troll. Satisfied?

So why have you been faking honesty all along? Lol.

Next time, let out your true colors from page one, you didn’t have to wait till the end of the road like this.
———
Lest I forget:

If 500+ years ago is according to you relatively modern for an ethnic term; then please name me any 2 ethnic designations from any other two groups of people in Nigeria which is earlier than the term “Yoruba”. Lol.

Cc. Probz, BanyXchi

RedboneSmith:


But a prominent cultural historian and archaeologist of Yoruba descent made that postulation. The historian may or may not be wrong, but the theory, as presented by him, is one that merits serious attention.

Anago/Nago became a common name for Yoruba-speaking people among the Fon and parts of the New World in a similar way as described by him for 'Yagba'.

Nago, Lucumi, Aku were the common names for Yoruba speaking people, again yagba means nothing!

TAO11:
There is actually such an hypotheses from Prof. Akin Ogundiran; and the hypotheses is tenable.

So that’s not even my bone of contention with the guy.

The contention with him is his statement that the term “Yoruba” is a term which emerged quite recently in the 19th century ~i.e. the 1800s.

And he even dared attribute this his fallacy of “recent ethnic term” to Prof. Akin Ogundiran, when in fact this Professor emphasized the precise opposite—i.e. that the name emerged in the 1500s or even much earlier.

You may be right. He’s probably another troll who is bent on spreading the fallacy of “Yoruba” being of a rElAtIvELy mOdErN aRbiTrARy uMbReLLa TeRm.

•

I could bet that clown is Edo. They are always the mischievous ones doing this kind of things. Very mischievous lots.

TAO11:
So why have you been faking honesty all along? Lol.

Next time, let out your true colors from page one, you didn’t have to wait till the end of the road like this.
———
Lest I forget:

If 500+ years ago is according to you relatively modern for an ethnic term; then please name me any 2 ethnic designations from any other two groups of people in Nigeria which is earlier than the term “Yoruba”. Lol.

Cc. Probz, BanyXchi

Busa in Borgu (earlier or approximately) and Hausa (earlier).

Now, rest.

BanyXchi:
Nago, Lucumi, Aku were the common names for Yoruba speaking people, again yagba means nothing!

Unlike TAO11, you're a barren empty hate filled f0-0l. No research references, just shout shout like the pangolo that you are .
Don't bring your tribal poo to my threads. Stick to your Politics section where you rightfully belong.
No offense intended.

LightOnScams:

Busa in Borgu (earlier or approximately) and Hausa (earlier).

Now, rest.

Name me a document where the name “Busa” appears earlier than the name “Yoruba”.

Also, name me a document where the name “Hausa” appears earlier than the name “Yoruba”.
———
There are scores (if not hundreds) of ethnic groups in Nigeria of which “Yoruba” is only one.

In other words, if you fail to find the mention of those two above (i.e. “Busa” and “Hausa”) to be earlier than “Yoruba” (which you’ll obviously fail to find); then feel free to shift to other two of the several ethnic groups

Now the whole point of this challenge (which of course you will fail & have failed so far) is to disillusion you from your self-imposed delusion that a more than 500 years old reference to an ethnic identity in the Nigeria region is relatively modern; yet willing to presume that others are older while ‘knowing’ that references to these others are generally younger; or in few cases relatively contemporaneous.

TAO11:
Show me a document where the name “Busa” appears earlier than the name “Yoruba”.

Show me a document where the name “Hausa” appears earlier than the name “Yoruba”.

Show me the inverse .

LightOnScams:

Show me the inverse .

Leo Africanus visited the Western Sudan in the 16th century. He wrote about the Hausa city-states Gobir (Guber) , Katsina (Casena), Kano (Cano), Zaria (Zegzeg). But in all of his discription of Hausaland, the word "Hausa" did not appear even once.

The use of that term is probably not as old as you think.

LightOnScams:
Show me the inverse .

First of all, I actually laughed out loud in public when I saw this reply.

Secondly, I added a postscript to my above comment. I feel you needed to see those too.

Now with your comment here, you’ve just admitted to have no basis for why you typed. That’s your first step towards being disillusioned. Kudos in a way.

Now to replying your comment proper: If what you’re requesting is that I bring forward all works written on “Nigeria” ethnicities from GodKnowsWhen up until the 1500s & 1600s when “Yoruba” appeared in a writing; then that’s a silly, absurd & impracticable thing to ask.

That could mean having to attach each page of each work from each century here for you to observe the absence of these other names that you submitted.

Another reason why what you’re requesting does not make sense to me is that it is you who made a claim.

I only requested that you bear your burden of proof. There is a burden on you, and it is known in logic as the burden of proof (or onus probandi).

The burden of proof is on the one who makes a claim. They need to substantiate their claim. There is no burden on anyone else to help them prove their claim or disprove them. I have no such burden at all.

So I’m waiting on you to help yourself.
————

But while waiting on you, a way to chose to disprove you from my end would be a scholarly submission by John Hunwick [& Fatimah Harrak] along the lines that “Hausa” [& perhaps “Busa” too] appeared in a text for the first time (i.e. the earliest known) in Ahmed Baba’ replies to questions from a certain Al-al-Isi (in Marrakesh) in the c.1597 — the same document in which the name “Yoruba” also first appears before the more popular one of 1615 in the reply to a certain Al-Jirari (in Tuwat).

RedboneSmith:


Leo Africanus visited the Western Sudan in the 16th century. He wrote about the Hausa city-states Gobir (Guber) , Katsina (Casena), Kano (Cano), Zaria (Zegzeg). But in all of his discription of Hausaland, the word "Hausa" did not appear even once.

The use of that term is probably not as old as you think.

An Arabic scholar is cited to have used the term in the 13 century or thereabout. I'll get the source later on.

As for Yoruba, the only document to have mentioned something close to the name in the 1600s, which I am aware of, is that of Songhai-Moroccan Ahmed Baba. Which wasn't "Yoruba" but just "Yor". Three letters.

LightOnScams:

An Arabic scholar is cited to have used the term in the 13 century or thereabout. I'll get the source later on.

As for Yoruba, the only document to have mentioned something close to the name in the 1600s, which I am aware of, is that of Songhai-Moroccan Ahmed Baba. Which wasn't "Yoruba" but just "Yor". Three letters.

Nairaland people can make one laugh. He said it just “Yor”. Lmao.

Please I’m patiently waiting for the 13th century reference o.

And by the way how many ethnicities are the Nigeria sef? And If almost all the rest do not come that close to the name “Yoruba” in terms of which has an earlier text reference, where then do you get the idea or illusion from that these others which have young references are the relatively older ones, while the term “Yoruba” with the relatively older reference is the relatively modern term.

Why exactly did your confusion or disingenuousness really come from? I want to know.

TAO11:
Nairaland people can make one laugh. He said it just “Yor”. Lmao.

I'm challenging you TAO11 to show me a document showing "Yoruba" in the 1600s and I'll coward my head in.
Don't bring some translated text .

LightOnScams:

I knew you'd cite Ahmed Baba . Now I'll ask you, do you read Arabic?

Yes I do sir.

And I added something up for you again.

LightOnScams:

I'm challenging you TAO11 to show me a document showing "Yoruba" in the 1600s and I'll coward my head in.
Don't bring some translated text .

You cited one already. Lmao

He doesn’t understand the original text in Arabic. Also, he doesn’t want the scholarly translation of the original Arabic.

No be juju be this?

Also, you cited Akin Ogundiran [whom you consider is a scholar (of course he is) — except for lying that you forgot the date he mentioned].

Well, one of the texts Akin Ogundiran was referring to was particularly that one you attached.

Do you still love him or you now hate him?

TAO11:
You cited one already. Lmao

He doesn’t understand the original text in Arabic. Also, he doesn’t want the scholarly translation of the original Arabic.

No be juju be this?

Who says I can't read it? You assume a lot about someone you haven't met before .

Kindly point out the "Yoruba" in there. You can't because there's none .
Btw, I'll appreciate other sources.

At least, we can reconcile Ibn Khaldun's Ufe with Ife. But 'Yor" with "Yoruba"?

TAO11:
Also, you cited Akin Ogundiran (which you think is a scholar — except for lying that you forgot the date he mentioned).

Well, one of the texts Akin Ogundiran was referring to was particularly that one you attached.

Do you still love him or you now hate him?

Who said I love him? Lmao. I innocently cited him, but you wanted to troll and now you can't prove that "Yoruba" was mentioned in 1600s?

Btw, Akin is a respected archeologist and a scholar. Read more on his works madam.

LightOnScams:

An Arabic scholar is cited to have used the term in the 13 century or thereabout. I'll get the source later on.

I see. Do remember to post it when you find it. Thanks.

LightOnScams:

Who said I love him? Lmao. I innocently cited him, but you wanted to troll and now you can't prove that "Yoruba" was mentioned in 1600s?

Btw, Akin is a respected archeologist and a scholar. Read more on his works madam.

You innocently cited him? What do you mean by this?

Do you mean he also “lied” when he referenced the presence of the term “Yoruba” in that screenshot — i.e. in that work from Ahmad Baba (1615)?

Make up your mind.

LightOnScams:

Who says I can't read it? You assume a lot about someone you haven't met before .

Kindly point out the "Yoruba" in there. You can't because there's none .
Btw, I'll appreciate other sources.

At least, we can reconcile Ibn Khaldun's Ufe with Ife. But 'Yor" with "Yoruba"?

How I know you have no clue is you saying the text shows “Yor”. Lmao

Also Ibn Khaldun didn’t write any Ufe or Ife or anything about Yorubaland anywhere.

Wait did you just say you need more Arabic writings which shows the name “Yoruba”? One isn’t enough I guess.

Yet we haven’t seen even half from you for ur “Hausa” & “Bussa”. Lmao.


And to think this is coming from one who has no clue of Arabic. And he also doesn’t want the English. Now this is magic

TAO11:
How I know you have no clue is you saying the text shows “Yor”. Lmao

Also Ibn Khaldun didn’t write any Ufe or Ife or anything about Yorubaland anywhere.

Wait did you just say you need more Arabic writings which shows the name “Yoruba”? One isn’t enough I guess.

Yet we haven’t seen even half from you for ur “Hausa” & “Bussa”. Lmao.


And to think this is coming from one who has no clue of Arabic. And he also doesn’t want the English. Now this is magic

You're embarrassing yourself further TAO11.
Have you turned to trolling? I thought you were the scholar and I was the troll?
Seems it's the other way round.

I guess your long peddled lies have been busted .

Going forward, if you can't show me a 1600s text with "Yoruba", don't mention me on this topic again. I'll ignore you until you do, else you're just the regular Wikipedia historian .

No offense.

An average Arabic reader knows only "Yor" was written in there.

LightOnScams:
An average Arabic reader knows only "Yor" was written in there.

It was YRB actually. Only the vowels appear to be missing. I don't know the rules of Arabic writing, but I do know some early Semitic writings didnt make use of vowels, such that Yahweh was written YHWH.

LightOnScams:

You're embarrassing yourself further TAO11.
Have you turned to trolling? I thought you were the scholar and I was the troll?
Seems it's the other way round.

I guess your long peddled lies have been busted .

Going forward, if you can't show me a 1600s text with "Yoruba", don't mention me on this topic again. I'll ignore you until you do, else you're just the regular Wikipedia historian .

No offense.

You’re trying too hard to be manipulative.

Also, why are you begging me to stop exposing you?

If what you want is a 1500s/1600s text written with the Latin/Roman/English scripts, it doesn’t exist.

But if what you request is a 1500s/1600s text written with Arabic/Ajami scripts, you have it up there.

Unfortunately, for you however, you’ve demonstrated to be illiterate in Arabic/Ajami. You cluelessly said the text says “Yor”. Lmao!

Not only do you have no clue of Arabic, you have also chosen delusions over reality by kicking against those (like John Hunwick, Fatima Harrak, et al. & even I) who have all informed you of what the Arabic (which you lack knowledge of) says — i.e. “Yoruba”.

But for some delusional reasons, you have chosen to belief that all scholars are trolling you. They’re all out against you. Scholars are out for LightOnScams. Lol.

John Huwnwick is trolling you. Fatimah Harrak is also trolling you. Even Akin Ogundiran is trolling you. I am trolling you. In short, all scholars who have accessed the text, and told you what’s there are trolling you.

Wait o, you actually started out by citing A. Ogundiran where A. Ogundiran was alluding to the fact that this very name “Yoruba” appears in these texts from the 1600s & 1500s. However, you claimed he said 1800s.

But when I called you out on your misattribution, you claimed you only made a mistake — in other words, you’re claiming to be aware that it’s actually 1600s & 1500s, or even earlier.

I knew you didn’t make no mistake. I knew you really tried to lie about the period. Now see how you’re back to your square-one which you had pleaded was only a mistake when I called you out on it. Your true color came out—i.e. Delusion×Dishonesty=LightOnScams.
————
As an appendix, please transliterate what I wrote in my attached screenshot if you can. I just wanna check something.

It has to do with the city of Ifẹ̀ which you have falsely attributed to Ibn Khaldun (who has nothing to do with Yorubaland). Please transliterate it. I’m waiting.