scholes0:


Okay which of them?

where the Esogban said all the families there migrated from Ife Even the Uzamas

UGBE634:
where the Esogban said all the families there migrated from Ife Even the Uzamas

I will give you, but will you agree with the TRUTH after I give you?

scholes0:


I will give you, but will you agree with the TRUTH after I give you?

Let me see it first, don't give me conditions, I am not the only spectator here

scholes0:


Who is this one? can you argue "Edo" history with me?
(

this coming from a "yoruba" and one from "Ondo" at that !! Get a life boy!! ....


Ugbe634 case in point ...go figure

UGBE634:
Let me see it first, don't give me conditions, I am not the only spectator here

Okay you no wan do Quid pro Quo, but I will engage you none the less, and that is because you are at least level headed.

Listen to the Asogban (Esogban) of Benin. From 09:47 to 10:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQZl-yyNqE&t=812s

Respond with what you hear him say.

scholes0:


Okay you no wan do Quid pro Quo, but I will engage you none the less, and that is because you are at least level headed.

Listen to the Asogbon (Esogban) of Benin. From 09:47 to 10:30


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZQZl-yyNqE&t=812s

Respond with what you hear him say.

He is talking about his Esogban family, I pasted this video on a past argument with my kinsmen I already know this, I know also of that of Oloton. I meant all the families I quoted, even the Uzamas

UGBE634:
He is talking about his Esogban family, I pasted this video on a past argument with my kinsmen I already know this, I am also of that of Oloton, I mean all the families I quoted, even the Uzamas

He said he and the entire Esogban family came from ife oooo.
Are you saying Eogban family comes from Ife with one mouth, and saying he didn't with another?

Are you denying that the Ihogbe chiefs are from Ife also?

Or Osa and Osuan?

Or the Ine of Igun?

Or Eriyo aka Obo Oronmila of ife?

Or Edigin, Ehendiwo and Bamawo?

Since you know of the Oloton's pedigree, what will you say about the Elama below?

scholes0:


He said he and the entire Esogban family came from ife oooo.
Are you saying Eogban family comes from Ife with one mouth, and saying he didn't with another?

Are you denying that the Ihogbe chiefs are from Ife also?

Or Osa and Osuan?

Or the Ine of Igun?

Or Eriyo aka Obo Oronmila of ife?

Or Edigin, Ehendiwo and Bamawo?

Since you know of the Oloton's pedigree, what will you say about the Elama below?

See scholes0 there is nothing like an Esogban family, it is not hereditary, it was a title created by Oba Ewedo alongside with Iyase, Uso, Eson, Esama etc these are town chiefs, they are not bastardization of what you have in yorubaland, on the death of an Esogban, the title is given to another family whom the Oba seems fit, one of the patriarch of the Iyamu family has been Esogban before. to be specific he was talking about his Edebiri family.

The Ihogbe chiefs are all not from Ife. Where is your proof[b][/b]

I know of Bamawo, I have read of Osa and Osuan, the others you cannot just claim without going down to verify.

Also this is the strength of our argument, you listed several names and titles up to about thirty, when some are not hereditary and some were created by Oba Ewedo and other kings then you just assume they are all from Ife, even the Uzamas Don't deviate,

Eson, Ero, Edigin, Ogbebor n'Usen, the Oba, the whole of the Ihogbe class of Chiefs and their descendants who are the official keepers of the Oba's Pedigree and History (Uheloro, Letema, Uhe Obioba, Uheluyi, Ihama, Legema and co), Osa and Osuan, the Adun, The Ine of Igun casters and his people, the Esogban, Eriyo, Elema, Eholo, Bamawo, Ehendiwo, Oloton, the Ogbe sasa chiefs like the Olukotun and Olukohi .

Odofin (Edohen), Olifa (Oliha) and Aro (Ero). I

UGBE634:
See scholes0 there is nothing like an Esogban family, it is not hereditary, it was a title created by Oba Ewedo alongside with Iyase, Uso, Eson, Esama etc these are town chiefs, they are not bastardization of what you have in yorubaland, on the death of an Esogban, the title is given to another family whom the Oba seems fit, one of the patriarch of the Iyamu family has been Esogban before. to be specific he was talking about his Edebiri family.

The Ihogbe chiefs are not from Ife. Where is your proof[b][/b]

I know of Bamawo, I have read of Osa and Osuan, the others you cannot just claim without going down to verify.

Also this is the strength of our argument, you listed several families up to about thirty, then you just assume they are all from Ife, even the Uzamas Don't deviate,

Eson, Ero, Edigin, Ogbebor n'Usen, the Oba, the whole of the Ihogbe class of Chiefs and their descendants who are the official keepers of the Oba's Pedigree and History (Uheloro, Letema, Uhe Obioba, Uheluyi, Ihama, Legema and co), the Adun, The Ine of Igun casters and his people, the Esogban, Eriyo, Elema, Eholo, Ehendiwo, the Ogbe sasa chiefs like the Olukotun and Olukohi .

Odofin (Edohen), Olifa (Oliha) and Aro (Ero). I

Yes the current Esogban family, Edebiris.
See, the Esogban title was created by Oba Ewedo as Asogbon. (Source of wise counsel) He is usually a chief adviser of the Oba chosen from a close relative of the Oba himself , related to him by BLOOD.

Okay, here is what I am going to do... I am going to list each name I mentioned and attach the proof f their Ife pedigree.
Oloton, Bamawo, Osa, Osuan, The Oba.... you've agreed.

Attached below are the following: (pic1)
Ojomo and Odofin
Osolo and Oloton
Oliha and Ine
Aro and Elemo

Ehendiwo: (pic2 & 3)

Ogieva, Ihama and Oloton: (pic 4)

Edigin and Olo (1 & 2)

Ine of Igun (3)

Ihogbe (4)

Infact, I have virtually covered all the families I mentioned.

scholes0:


lol... Okay, here is what I am going to do... I am going to list each name I mentioned and attach the proof f their Ife pedigree.
Oloton, Bamawo, Osa, Osuan, The Oba.... you've agreed.

Attached below are the following: (pic1)
Ojomo and Odofin
Osolo and Oloton
Oliha and Ine
Aro and Elemo

Ehendiwo: (pic2 & 3)

Ogieva, Ihama and Oloton: (pic 4)

Ezomo'n'Uzebu as an example is from Ewohimi in Esanland, his descendants greet la-ogiesan. I can use that video you posted earlier to debunk this work. No Uzamas came from Ife

What is Aywaw and which of his son was called Bini, all these works does not add up they seem like strange history

And also not all Ihogbe chiefs are hereditary, some are by appointment

scholes0:
Edigin and Olo (1 & 2)

Ine of Igun (3)

Ihogbe (4)

Infact, I have virtually covered all the families I mentioned.

this one seem like a mythical tale, no where was it Even stated where ine of igun came from

UGBE634:
You see why Egharevba cannot be taken seriously, Ezomo'n'Uzebu as an example is from Ewohimi in Esanland, his descendants greet la-ogiesan. you see why Binis don't take his Akure antecedent heavily influenced his write up of Bini. I can use that video you posted earlier to debunk this work. No Uzamas came from Ife

What is Aywaw and which of his son was called Bini

And also not all Ihogbe chiefs are hereditary, some are by appointment

The Original Ojomo/Ezomo were not hereditary... they were simply valiant citizens who proved themselves in war/battle/chivalry

By some accounts, Oranmiyan conferred his own Ojomo from Usen. Ezomos became hereditary after Oba Akinjuwa (Akenzua), which is most likely the Esan pedigree of Ezomo started and became fixed.

UGBE634:
this one seem like a mythical tale, no where was it Even stated where ine of igun came from

Infact, the whole art of Igun Eronmwon and Ide (Iron and brass) came from Ife, not just the Ine.

scholes0:


Infact, the whole art of Igun Eronmwon came from Ife, not just the Ine.

This is not true according to what we have, igueghae went to learn the art and came back to teach locals

scholes0:


Infact, the whole art of Igun Eronmwon and Ide (Iron and brass) came from Ife, not just the Ine.

The Binis were already ironsmith from time immemorial, infact according to the Oba, it was bronze smith that came from ife

[

UGBE634:
The Binis were already ironsmith from time immemorial, infact according to the Oba, it was bronze smith that came from ife

can you post examples of some early Benin work in smithing?

scholes0:


can you post examples of some early Benin work in smithing?

yes sure I will do that later, I saw it somewhere, it is a work by professor osagie and Dr ikponmwosa of the university of Benin

The title is :The craft guilds and the sustenance of precolonial Benin Monarchy page 4 by professor Osagie and Dr Ikponmwosa of the department of history university of Benin, Scholes0

UGBE634:
This is not true according to what we have, igueghae went to learn the art and came back to teach locals

Naah, Oba Oguola actually sent to Ife for a smith to come teach locals.

scholes0:

who is Aywaw and who is his son Bini, what link do they have with Bini, it is not stated there that these men migrated from Ife, the word used there is accompany, these chiefs alongside with chief Oliha as the head went to Ife to invite him, then accompanied him down obviously

scholes0:


Infact, the whole art of Igun Eronmwon and Ide (Iron and brass) came from Ife, not just the Ine.

It was not stated in that write up

scholes0:


Naah, Oba Oguola actually sent to Ife for a smith to come teach locals.

And that person that was sent for is with the name Igueghae the late Oba opined he was earlier sent there to learn

UGBE634:
who is Aywaw and who is his son Bini, what link do they have with Bini, it is not stated there that these men migrated from Ife, the word used there is accompany, these chiefs alongside with chief Oliha as the head went to Ife to invite him, then accompanied him down obviously

Awyaw if Oyo, and the account is an allegory. One of the six son's of "Awyaw" is referring to Oranmiyan.

And by several accounts, such as; "The Intelligence report on Benin City by F.H Marshall 1939, Page 3. The four pair of chiefs came with him from Ife

UGBE634:
And that person that was sent for is with the name Igueghae the late Oba opined he was earlier sent there to learn

Bros, Igueghae was said to be the first Ineh, and he came from Ife. This is not in doubt.

The oral history is jumbled up most especially with regards to time frame, but there are some consistencies.

UGBE634:
It was not stated in that write up

Yes it was They said the oba SENT FOR (i.e requested the services of) a master caster, they didn't say the Oba SENT TO

scholes0:


Awyaw if Oyo, and the account is an allegory. One of the six son's of "Awyaw" is referring to Oranmiyan.

And by several accounts, such as; "The Intelligence report on Benin City by F.H Marshall 1939, Page 3. The four pair of chiefs came with him from Ife

I am sorry these are not true, they had initially gone to invite him, that is why they came with him from Ife, it is part of the bastardization of the Bini history by the Usen people we are talking about.

The period of the Uzamas far predated the period of Oronmiyan in Benin, I would like you to come down to Benin and interview these families before you can be taken seriously

The "families" of the Iyase,Uso, Eson Esama, Esogbanetc are not really families as most are not hereditary

Goodnight

scholes0:


Bros, Igueghae was said to be the first Ineh, and he came from Ife. This is not in doubt.

The oral history is jumbled up most especially with regards to time frame, but there are some consistencies.

I made it for emphasis, Igueghae seems to be a Bini name, that's the point

UGBE634:
I am sorry these are not true, they had initially gone to invite him, that is why they came with him from Ife, it is part of the bastardization of the Bini history by the Usen people we are talking about.

The period of the Uzamas far predated the period of Oronmiyan in Benin, I would like you to come down to Benin and interview these families before you can be taken seriously

The "families" of the Iyase,Uso, Eson Esama, Esogbanetc are not really families as most are not hereditary

Goodnight

Left to me, the Usen people are the neutral party between Benin and ife here. Infact, they are the harbingers of the whole Benin-Ife episode.
Anything they say should be held in high regard.

UGBE634:
I made it for emphasis, Igueghae seems to be a Bini name, that's the point

Talking about names, do you know those Ujama titles all have meanings in Yoruba chieftaincy and esoteric societies like the Awo and Ogboni?
What do they mean in Benin?

scholes0:


Left to me, the Usen people are the neutral party between Benin and ife here. Infact, they are the harbingers of the whole Benin-Ife episode.
Anything they say should be held in high regard.

they are not neutral as they are visibly yoruba by ancestry and they seem to have a soft spot for the yorubas. The Uzamas have existed from time before the Oba dynasty. these families according to what we have went to invite oranmiyan

Many of these families, that's why I said you should ask them directly, if they are from Ife, they would be proud to tell you, I know some of these Uzamas families so well. Ife is a noble place, they will only tell you they are not from because they are not from, it is better to hear from the horses mouth

UGBE634:
they are not neutral as they are visibly yoruba by ancestry and they seem to have a soft spot for the yorubas. The Uzamas have existed from time before the Oba dynasty. these families according to what we have went to invite oranmiyan

Many of these families, that's why I said you should ask them directly, if they are from Ife, they would be proud to tell you, I know some of these Uzamas families so well. Ife is a noble place, they will only tell you they are not from because they are not from, it is better to hear from the horses mouth

And all the other families in the initial post?
And the Ihogbe?
Anways .......