₦airaland Forum

ValeeLove:
the creator of the universe.

Which among them?

ValeeLove:
the creator of the universe.

Which among them?
Or it’s your own favourite deity called yahweh that created it?

ValeeLove:
a dictionary will have it's meaning, but my defination is it's a being not physical or natural.

Not physical or natural is not a concise definifion. You're basically describing what it's not, not what it is. Saying "not physical" tells us little to nothing about what it is actually supposed to be.

Spirits are also the source of existence of humankind.

How exactly did you also arrive at this conclusion?

How do I know they exist? One, science hasn't been able to truly explain how the universe was created and also what gives life, emotion and intellect to humans. The lack of tangible explanations to that effect to answer our primary and basest questions of life has led me to believe that there exists an invisible force backing our existence that science cannot detect.

Basically, what you're saying is "we don't yet know, therefore God". This is called the god of the gaps fallacy.

If we don't know something, it's okay to say we simply don't know. But to go a step further and claim that it was a "non-physical" thing called a god without providing any evidence for such just doesn't work.

Unfalsifiable claims and gaps in knowledge do not count as evidence for a god. I hope you can see my point.

There's also stories of ghosts and all that. But the main proof for me is my ability to commune with God anywhere, anytime.

I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to prove. We've had stories for as long as we've been able to talk as a species. Whether or not the stories are true is another topic of discussion.

Even if the stories are true, i fail to see how they prove anything other than the fact that we still understand very little about our universe.

I'll prove it. First of all, do you believe in Jesus?

What exactly do you mean by "believe in Jesus"?

ValeeLove:
WHAT WILL IT TAKE YOU TO BELIEVE THAT GOD TRULY EXISTS? I TRULY WANT TO KNOW.

Evidence of your specific God.
No unsubstantive hearsay doesn't count.

Substantive proof that your book is the will of God, not the circular answer usually provided (e.g the Quran is true and from God because it is written in the Quran, and said so by Muhammad the Author)
and not an argument from intuition (e.g I feel my holy book is true, therefore it is true)

LordReed:
The images I see "in my head" are function of my brain operation, it doesn't require "spirt realm" to explain. The emotions I feel are operations of the various organs and secretions they produce, also doesn't require "spirit realm" explanation. If you were hoping to use those as a reason to believe in something I don't know then you have been mistaken.

so, would you say; emotions can be proven by science and therefore purely physical?

Wilgrea7:
Not physical or natural is not a concise definifion. You're basically describing what it's not, not what it is. Saying "not physical" tells us little to nothing about what it is actually supposed to be.

think about it; that's all the explanation you need to get. The creator of the universe exists outside his creation, so how do you possibly desire to understand him totally? Your physical brain literally can't. Is that commonsensical enough?

Wilgrea7:
How exactly did you also arrive at this conclusion?

My Bible.

Wilgrea7:
Basically, what you're saying is "we don't yet know, therefore God". This is called the god of the gaps fallacy.

If we don't know something, it's okay to say we simply don't know. But to go a step further and claim that it was a "non-physical" thing called a god without providing any evidence for such just doesn't work.

Unfalsifiable claims and gaps in knowledge do not count as evidence for a god. I hope you can see my point.

I understand your point. But I'm saying, give me a break here, I cannot prove by science how whether God exists - that would literally be impossible to do since He (God) created science and exists apart of it -, so since I can't do it based on what you know my best shot is based on what you don't know. You may claim to know it all, but you still can't explain how the world was made. Up till now the 'big bang' is still a theory, it hasn't been made a law, which means you and other atheists don't know how the world came to be, which I've claimed to know. The least you can do is give me a listening ear.

Wilgrea7:
I'm not sure exactly what this is supposed to prove. We've had stories for as long as we've been able to talk as a species. Whether or not the stories are true is another topic of discussion.

Even if the stories are true, i fail to see how they prove anything other than the fact that we still understand very little about our universe.

if stories of ghosts are true it simply means spirits are and that proves me right.

Wilgrea7:
What exactly do you mean by "believe in Jesus"?

do you believe he was a real human, that he existed?

ValeeLove:
so, would you say; emotions can be proven by science and therefore purely physical?

It depends on what you mean by proven. Science has let us understand the mechanisms of emotions, by it we know it's caused by interplay between the brain and the secretions of all the endocrine organs. Do we know exactly how it all works? No but we have a very good picture that allows us to modify those emotions sometimes. As far as we know it is only physical constraints that have any effect, there is no evidence of any other kind of influence.

LordReed:
It depends on what you mean by proven. Science has let us understand the mechanisms of emotions, by it we know it's caused by interplay between the brain and the secretions of all the endocrine organs. . Do we know exactly how it all works? No but we have a very good picture that allows us to modify those emotions sometimes. As far as we know it is only physical constraints that have any effect, there is no evidence of any other kind of influence.

My point exactly. But I know how it works, that's what I'm telling you. They are connected to the spirit hence why some parts can be explained, why the other can't.
Question: Do you believe in Jesus?

ValeeLove:
My point exactly. But I know how it works, that's what I'm telling you. They are connected to the spirit hence why some parts can be explained, why the other can't.
Question: Do you believe in Jesus?

Can you make me sad (essentially change my emotions) by spiritual means alone?

What do you mean by believe in Jesus? If you mean if I believe he exists right now, no.

ValeeLove:
you see, that's the problem. You can't believe what you don't know, so how do you ascertain he isn't a scammer. You claim you can't be scammed, but even the best of us can be. We only trust because we have to, not because we are a 100 % sure. This is where faith in God comes in; the Bible says he that comes to God must believe he exists and is a rewarder of those who deligently seek him. Bro, to KNOW God, you must first BELIEVE.

Still waiting for you to point out where I said I can't be scammed.

Maynmann:
Which among them?
Or it’s your own favourite deity called yahweh that created it?

the one Jesus introduced

LordReed:
Can you make me sad (essentially change my emotions) by spiritual means alone?

What do you mean by believe in Jesus? If you mean if I believe he exists right now, no.

absolutely they can.

Do you believe he ever existed?

ValeeLove:
absolutely they can.

Do you believe he ever existed?

Then do it.

It is trivial to accept that some guy with the translated name Jesus lived at some point in 1st century CE Judea.

LordReed:
Then do it.

It is trivial to accept that some guy with the translated name Jesus lived at some point in 1st century CE Judea.

that's not how it works, I'm not God.

There's archeological and historical evidence to back up that claim. If you believe Julius Cesar existed, then you have to believe Jesus did too.

ValeeLove:
that's not how it works, I'm not God.

There's archeological and historical evidence to back up that claim. If you believe Julius Cesar existed, then you have to believe Jesus did too.

That is the response of a gullible person.

Aside from gospel accounts there is no archeological evidence of Jesus. And even if I believe that a guy named Jesus existed so what?

LordReed:
That is the response of a gullible person.

Aside from gospel accounts there is no archeological evidence of Jesus. And even if I believe that a guy named Jesus existed so what?

there are archeological evidence to show he existed. Of course there are no videos, but places he went to and things he did in those places are well documented and exist in Today's Israel.

LordReed:
That is the response of a gullible person.

Aside from gospel accounts there is no archeological evidence of Jesus. And even if I believe that a guy named Jesus existed so what?

if you believe then you'll receive grace to know God on a personal; not through the testimony of others or a book, but directly.

ValeeLove:
if you believe then you'll receive grace to know God on a personal; not through the testimony of others or a book, but directly.

LoLz.

ValeeLove:
there are archeological evidence to show he existed. Of course there are no videos, but places he went to and things he did in those places are well documented and exist in Today's Israel.

That is not archaeological evidence. Evidence that a place exists doesn't mean somebody that was said to live in that place must have existed too. Otherwise, Spiderman is real because New York exists.

LordReed:
That is not archaeological evidence. Evidence that a place exist doesn't mean somebody that was said to live in that place must have existed too. Otherwise Spiderman is real because New York exists.

so what do you want, because i don't have videos or pictures. Do you give same standard for other historical figures like Cesar?

LordReed:
LoLz.

when you're done laughing, the option is still open as long as you're ready to live by God's will.

ValeeLove:
when you're done laughing, the option is still open as long as you're ready to live by God's will.

I am laughing because Jewish fairytales are not real.

LordReed:
I am laughing because Jewish fairytales are not real.

its not a fairy tale. It's a historical account. The least you can do is give us a reason why you don't believe the historic account is true.

ValeeLove:
so what do you want, because i don't have videos or pictures. Do you give same standard for other historical figures like Cesar?

Does Jesus have any contemporary archeological material like Juius Caesar has? Did Jesus write any books or accounts of his works? The answer is no so they cannot be on the same level. The reason why we can say someone named Jesus lived about that time is because there were several apocalyptic preachers during the period so it was not a big deal. It is like saying there was a shoe maker in Ogbomosho in 1980, there is nothing remarkable about that.

ValeeLove:
its not a fairy tale. It's a historical account. The least you can do is give us a reason why you don't believe the historic account is true.

It is not a historc account because it contradicts historic facts nor can any of the specific incidents be verified by any means.

LordReed:
It is not a historc account because it contradicts historic facts nor can any of the specific incidents be verified by any means.

name the contradictions.

Of course the only way historic incidents that me verified is through documentation which you still disagree with. What am I to do?

LordReed:
Does Jesus have any contemporary archeological material like Juius Caesar has? Did Jesus write any books or accounts of his works? The answer is no so they cannot be on the same level. The reason why we can say someone named Jesus lived about that time is because there were several apocalyptic preachers during the period so it was not a big deal. It is like saying there was a shoe maker in Ogbomosho in 1980, there is nothing remarkable about that.

I don't get it. Jesus had no diary like Caesar but his life was documented by eye witnesses. What's the difference? There's still no concrete evidence of the existence of Caeser.

LordReed:
Does Jesus have any contemporary archeological material like Juius Caesar has? Did Jesus write any books or accounts of his works? The answer is no so they cannot be on the same level. The reason why we can say someone named Jesus lived about that time is because there were several apocalyptic preachers during the period so it was not a big deal. It is like saying there was a shoe maker in Ogbomosho in 1980, there is nothing remarkable about that.

also Jesus wasn't just any preacher. He was the most remarkable preacher. He rose from the dead. It hadn't been done before and since then.