₦airaland Forum

TenQ:
You have a spirit!?
How does it LOOK like?

LOL!

Repose and Movement.

KnownUnknown:
Thesis? I guess you call your mumbo jumbo thesis! Lol


Keep busy making your nonsensical claims and call them “theories”.

Like I said:
Write you thesis: check the dictionary if you don't know the meaning


But dummies think slander is what makes them win an argument!

If there isn't anything else you have to say, please get off my mention!

Maynthemayn:
Exactly, then one should go beyond the doctrine of what one has been taught.
All the words used starting from genesis should be carefully examined to understand it better one need to research on the origin of the books in the Bible, one needs to start from the foundation.
Even the word “faith” from pistis how was it used originally, this is what i mean.

Anyone that desires wisdom is a philosopher, the opposite is misosophy.

Good!

Maynthemayn:
I think it will be the same way i know 3D, 2D and 1D, and my perception can only determine the numbers of dimensions i can know, maybe there will be a tool in the future that can further enhance my perception to know other dimensions.
If that’s the case that means 4D already exists right now, i am the one not using it.
I have 2 eyes but they are not sharper than some animal eyes, we might have some animals that already see in 4D or more, I’m suspecting those animals/ants that work on any surface irrespective of the direction.

This is the whole point of the discussion!

We can visualise 1D and 2D because we live in 3D.

We note that those in 1D cannot fathom 2D and those in 2D space cannot fathom 3D.

We have no reason to believe or know that higher dimensions other than 3D exist
BUT
If they exist, we have no way to know. It is beyond us.

My only extension (of course you don't need to agree) is that perhaps this higher dimension is the state Christians call the "Spirit Space" or spirit realm.

I was hoping that some of you guys will be theorising procedures to break into the higher dimensions or at least detect it if possible. But know, just because this is in the Religion section of Nairaland by a non-atheist, the thread must be brought down!


QED!

TenQ:
Like I said:
Write you thesis: check the dictionary if you don't know the meaning


But dummies think slander is what makes them win an argument!

If there isn't anything else you have to say, please get off my mention!

I prefer to laugh at your convoluted musings. You are very amusing.

TenQ:
This is the whole point of the discussion!

We can visualise 1D and 2D because we live in 3D.

We note that those in 1D cannot fathom 2D and those in 2D space cannot fathom 3D.

We have no reason to believe or know that higher dimensions other than 3D exist
BUT
If they exist, we have no way to know. It is beyond us.

My only extension (of course you don't need to agree) is that perhaps this higher dimension is the state Christians call the "Spirit Space" or spirit realm.

I was hoping that some of you guys will be theorising procedures to break into the higher dimensions or at least detect it if possible. But know, just because this is in the Religion section of Nairaland by a non-atheist, the thread must be brought down!


QED!

I am 3D and i can’t fathom 1D, 2D, i can only see and fathom in 3D.
We might not necessarily live in 3D, there might be other dimensions right within us but my perception is only 3D.
I can only measure my world through 3D, doesn’t mean the world is only 3D.

Higher dimension will just be another form of measurement different from height, length and depth.
I can view a 1D object that doesn’t mean I’m 1D, i can have tools that can allow me to view higher dimensions but i still remain a 3D.

Is this “spirit space” a form of measurement?
length, depth and height has one constant characteristic and it is for measurement of objects, so any dimension will also have that constant characteristic.

AudioMonkey:
Alright, but at bolded, you should already know by now that you're the only one asking stupid questions and making yourself look stupid in here but if you don't realize or accept that, then that shows you to be even stupidier.
It's obvious you're not that smart, you have a slow understanding and to make it worse you're yet again dumb. Fortunately, since some people here too know this, I don't have anything left to prove.
The thread you created is obviously bigger than your thinking faculty. The best thing right now, instead of engaging you is rather to watch from the sidelines as you keep unfolding more of your ignorance in grand style.
Bye for now lad, see you again, perhaps when next you create a simpler thread your brain can cope with.

In the beginning of our conversation, I thought you were smart only to discover that it is impossible for you to think in an abstract manner. I tried to close the subject but not you. Only for you to now be evasive when the question was simply:
Is a Triangle or a Circle 2D object?
To make things , the next question was is the triangle made up of cardboard?

I understand: not everyone is built for deep thinking.

Have a nice day!

LordReed:
I was willing to discuss the philosophy. I asked you what the principles were and you refused to answer.

You were not willing to discuss anything; your bias took you tangent to the field of discussion.
1. What principles do you expect?
Till now, you are feigning Dumb!

2. From the topic itself, what have you got to say? What would be your principles for presenting and discussing it?

I am sure to wait indefinitely for your response if indeed you were willing to discuss the philosophy

LordReed:
I don't attack the concept of existence of a god, I question the methods people use to arrive at belief in a god.

Cool but I do think it could go both ways, it's possible to also question the methods people use to arrive at unbelief in a god. That's the kind of neutral position I always expected when I hear the word agnostic but in practice, seems it doesn't happen that way.
I see them all on the same side all the time.

Anyway, I always do think, it's not that hard to deduce there's a God. The odds are always more in favor of that even from the most biased standpoint.

AudioMonkey:
Cool but I do think it could go both ways, it's possible to also question the methods people use to arrive at unbelief in a god. That's the kind of neutral position I always expected when I hear the word agnostic but in practice, seems it doesn't happen that way.
I see them all on the same side all the time.

Anyway, I always do think, it's not that hard to deduce there's a God. The odds are always more in favor of that even from the most biased standpoint.

A god. Why one? Why not a Siamese twin type of god? The Holy Double!

Maynthemayn:
Repose and Movement.

I don't understand: I know how a human body look like. How does your spirit look like? Is is heavy, light, what's the color etc

KnownUnknown:
I prefer to laugh at your convoluted musings. You are very amusing.

You can only cover-up your ignorance with actions like this Unfortunately, you are still as empty as you are.

TenQ:
I don't understand: I know how a human body look like. How does your spirit look like? Is is heavy, light, what's the color etc

Spirit is not a human body. All bodies and objects have shape because of dimensions. I can see what plato means by form and matter.
Spirit is repose and movement, it has no dimension.
We have color because of reflection of light, light itself is colorless, the deflection of it causes different colors.

Maynthemayn:
I am 3D and i can’t fathom 1D, 2D, i can only see and fathom in 3D.
We might not necessarily live in 3D, there might be other dimensions right within us but my perception is only 3D.
I can only measure my world through 3D, doesn’t mean the world is only 3D.

Higher dimension will just be another form of measurement different from height, length and depth.
I can view a 1D object that doesn’t mean I’m 1D, i can have tools that can allow me to view higher dimensions but i still remain a 3D.

Is this “spirit space” a form of measurement?
length, depth and height has one constant characteristic and it is for measurement of objects, so any dimension will also have that constant characteristic.

To fathom is to comprehend or understand!

Are you sure you can't fathom 1D and2D?

As you well know, dimensions are not visible and for 4D even if all dimensions are present, you can only fathom 3D!

On the spirit:
You said you have one: thus I asked you questions about it (just the same way you Atheists do). So, will you please respond to the question?

TenQ:
To fathom is to comprehend or understand!

Are you sure you can't fathom 1D and2D?

As you well know, dimensions are not visible and for 4D even if all dimensions are present, you can only fathom 3D!

On the spirit:
You said you have one: thus I asked you questions about it (just the same way you Atheists do). So, will you please respond to the question?

I don’t understand what it means to BE 1D, 2D, I only understand 1D and 2D through the lenses of 3D. I never stop being 3D.

Yes my perception can only fathom 3D, doesn’t mean we can’t have tools that can make me see 4D.
Just like I can’t see microorganisms, but we can see it through microscopes. I can understand 4D with a tool and I’ll still remain 3D.

I already answered you, even a plant has spirit, you can see it in its repose and movement.
Also we should first agree what “spirit” means, it seems you have another definition different from mine.

Maynthemayn:
Spirit is not a human body. All bodies and objects have shape because of dimensions. I can see what plato means by form and matter.
Spirit is repose and movement, it has no dimension.
We have color because of reflection of light, light itself is colorless, the deflection of it causes different colors.

But Atheists don't believe spirits exist.

At the same time, I don't understand what you mean by repose and movement and it having no dimension.

LordReed:
Very simply put those dimensions are independent of one another.

Now can you answer the question.

You mean that their spatial axis are different from one another or the dimensions are independent from one another?


I'm still interested in your own philosophical explanation: I am waiting

TenQ:
But Atheists don't believe spirits exist.

At the same time, I don't understand what you mean by repose and movement and it having no dimension.

There’s no association of “atheists”. We don’t have a doctrine.
There’s only one common theme in atheism and it means rejecting any god or gods.
An atheist can explore his options outside of this theme.
A sango worshipper is a theist like a yahweh worshipper but it doesn’t mean they agree in everything, they only have one thing in common and is belief in a god or gods
Also, what do you mean by “spirit”.

Repose and movement, Everything in this world uses it.
Why should repose and movement have dimensions?
It’s boundless.
Our body have limitations that is why we need dimensions.

Maynthemayn:
There’s no association of “atheists”. We don’t have a doctrine.
There’s only one common theme in atheism and it means rejecting any god or gods.
An atheist can explore his options outside of this theme.
A sango worshipper is a theist like a yahweh worshipper but it doesn’t mean they agree in everything, they only have one thing in common and is belief in a god or gods
Also, what do you mean by “spirit”.

Repose and movement, Everything in this world uses it.
Why should repose and movement have dimensions?
It’s boundless.
Our body have limitations that is why we need dimensions.

Your kind of Atheist believe spirits exist!?

I still find it difficult to comprehend: I am a visual person.

Who/What is being reposed?
Who/What is being moved ?
You have made the spirit distinct from the body!

Is the spirit describable?

Sorry, I just want to understand ni o!

AudioMonkey:
Hellvictorihno alternate I guess.

This doesn't disprove a god yet.
A manufacturing defect doesn't yet disprove the existence of the manufacturer.

Wrong guess. I didn’t say anything about disproving a god and I didn’t call the Siamese twins a “manufacturing defect” from a “manufacturer”.

You said a god? Why a god? Why not 2?

Before answering those questions, keep in my you have said what you mean by god.

AudioMonkey:
Cool but I do think it could go both ways, it's possible to also question the methods people use to arrive at unbelief in a god. That's the kind of neutral position I always expected when I hear the word agnostic but in practice, seems it doesn't happen that way.
I see them all on the same side all the time.

Anyway, I always do think, it's not that hard to deduce there's a God. The odds are always more in favor of that even from the most biased standpoint.

Of course, I even expect to be questioned.

It might not be hard to deduce a god but to believe you are correct without expecting to produce evidence is childish to say the least. There is nothing wrong with intuition but intuition needs facts to confirm its conclusions or else you are just living in fantasy.

TenQ:
You can only cover-up your ignorance with actions like this Unfortunately, you are still as empty as you are.

Empty barrel and noise. You fit the bill.

TenQ:
Your kind of Atheist believe spirits exist!?

I still find it difficult to comprehend: I am a visual person.

Who/What is being reposed?
Who/What is being moved ?
You have made the spirit distinct from the body!

Is the spirit describable?

Sorry, I just want to understand ni o!

I don’t “believe” spirit exist, i “know” that it does, I’m alive because of it.
Repose is rest.
Moved is Movement.
When you were typing your message, you used repose and movement to write it.
When you hear a music it is because of the balance between repose and movement.
When you see a painting it is because of the balance between repose and movement.
When you walk it is because of the balance between repose and movement.

Of course, it’s different.
You are not your body, you don’t say “i am leg”, you don’t say “i am thigh”.
Your body can get sick but you still “i am”, you can lose your leg but you still “i am”, “i am” exist without the body.

Hi TenQ,

I've finally gone through your original post and I have to say - your postulations are seriously problematic. But before I continue, I have to ask: what makes you think spatial dimensions have anything at all to do with something called "Spiritual"? It seems to me like you are beginning with a faulty definition, right off the bat. Now, I haven't yet gone through the entire posts and replies from other users throughout the 10+ pages of the thread so far but I noticed a lot of "Flatland" mentions and references, so I think it's safe to assume that most here are familiar with it. Moving on, I'll be quoting relevant excerpts from your wall of text.

Now you said this:

A person within a one dimensional space within a 3D space is unaware of the fact that he's in a 3D space.

So have you ever seen a person in 1D space, TenQ? Whatever it was, it would be ludicrous to call it a person. Your points so far appear to be a mere rehashing of "Flatland" as opposed to original thoughts or ideas.

Measurements of area or volume or height, displacement, velocity, volume, area density make sense to him, however, he cannot comprehend the meaning of anything outside the 3D

Lol. Why not? You managed to comprehend it, apparently. Why can’t someone else?

Christians have always spoken about God, Angels, Demons and the Spiritual Realm which in this case is at dimensions higher than 3 dimensions.

I think it would be helpful of you to demonstrate the connection between the hypothetical 4 dimensions and anything at all called "spirit".

Atheists understandably think that any dimension higher than 3D is a figment of imagination.

This is a very common misconception by the way, and I would like to caution you now before we go any further. Atheists are not synonymous with actual scientists. Generally, the basic requirement needed to become an atheist is a lack of belief in religious gods. There are atheists who believe in the supernatural just like you apparently do. It is the SCIENTISTS who regard String Theory as useless, not ATHEISTS as a collective. Also, it is other SCIENTISTS who attempt to demonstrate its' utility. I'll give you a hint here: String Theory is an hypothesis. It isn't actually a theory.

Time is NOT a dimension: time is a measure of intervals between events in 1D, 2D, 3D , 4D space.

I wouldn't call Time ".... a measure of intervals between events". It is more accurately ".... how we measure the intervals between events". Besides I don't think your definition of Time is entirely accurate in the context of modern physics (Special Relativity!). As we get new information, our methods of measurement change. You can't conclude anything from a hypothetical construct that begins with undefined terms and something called "spirituality" that is an equivocation error of dimensions. The existence of higher dimensions is a topic of ongoing research and debate in the physics and mathematics communities. While there is some evidence to suggest the existence of higher dimensions, such as in theories like String Theory and Kaluza-Klein Theory, it is important to note that there is currently no definitive proof.

Is it reasonable to conclude unequivocally that higher dimensions than 3D do NOT exist in the Universe?

In the absence of verifiable, repeatable demonstrations that these dimensions do/do not exist? A resounding Yes.

What kind of experiments would you advise scientists in the 2D world conduct to prove the existence of the 3D space?

I wonder why any reputable scientist would take any important considerations from me, a non-scientist, pertaining to their line of work.

Let’s assume that by some Stroke of massive intelligence, scientists in the 2D space have perfect scientific knowledge of their space, would this knowledge be adequate in the 3D space?

Are there really scientists that exist in only two dimensions? How do you come by this information? Why do you think this?

We know that a person in a higher dimension can interact with those in the lower dimensions: is the converse possible?

I'm afraid I'm not aware of this. And in response to that, I'll just cue what I asked of you earlier: I think it would be helpful of you to demonstrate the connection between the hypothetical 4 dimensions and anything at all called "spirit". If you can demonstrate that anything called a "spirit" exists in a higher dimension, I believe we can have a more fruitful and interesting conversation.

TenQ:
You mean that their spatial axis are different from one another or the dimensions are independent from one another?


I'm still interested in your own philosophical explanation: I am waiting

Both.

Nope, you answer my question. I have answered yours.

TenQ:
.... Mind you, as a Christian, I also see higher dimensions in other perspective: I don't claim my position is the reality, but it helps to explain the supernatural in natural point of view

Lol, I don't see how it helps. Wouldn't it just be easier for you to demonstrate miracles the way Jesus promised in John 14:12, Matthew 17:20, Mark 16:18 so that you can demonstrate the existence of your god? Yes? No?

Maynthemayn:
I don’t understand what it means to BE 1D, 2D, I only understand 1D and 2D through the lenses of 3D. I never stop being 3D.

Yes my perception can only fathom 3D, doesn’t mean we can’t have tools that can make me see 4D.
Just like I can’t see microorganisms, but we can see it through microscopes. I can understand 4D with a tool and I’ll still remain 3D.

I already answered you, even a plant has spirit, you can see it in its repose and movement.
Also we should first agree what “spirit” means, it seems you have another definition different from mine.

I didn't ask you to understand how to BE in 1D or 2D. In other words I ask if you can visualise objects and their movement/interactions in 1D and 2D. To comprehend higher dimensions, the least one can do is to understand first the lower Dimensions

If it is impossible for you to craft a means by which an object in 2D space can project to comprehend/visualise a 3D space, certainly it would be impossible for you in 3D to comprehend or visualise the 4D space and higher

If plants too can have spirits, I guess I am lost to your definition of spirit

TenQ:
You were not willing to discuss anything; your bias took you tangent to the field of discussion.
1. What principles do you expect?
Till now, you are feigning Dumb!

2. From the topic itself, what have you got to say? What would be your principles for presenting and discussing it?

I am sure to wait indefinitely for your response if indeed you were willing to discuss the philosophy

How is asking you the principles of the philosophy we are going to discuss feigning dumb?

KnownUnknown:
Empty barrel and noise. You fit the bill.

You alone had made the loudest noise here.

Sorry!

KnownUnknown:
A god. Why one? Why not a Siamese twin type of god? The Holy Double!

I understand you were making a point but you really creeped me out with this one.

TenQ:
You alone had made the loudest noise here.

Sorry!

Lol, did the 2D scientists from flatland tell you this? Maybe it’s just Hebrew god residing in 4D whispering sweet nothing into your 4D ear.