Wawelexy:
Well, your near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high, near death experiences are natural but rare, while having an encounter with God is sacred and for only the chosen one, that's the difference you failed to see....

Perhaps my "near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high" because there was no most high, or simply because my mind was not filled prior to the experience with an encounter with the most high.

Birds fly with what is in their belly, you see, just as we humans imagine what we believe or think of. And I don't exactly believe in a most high since I very well know most highs tend to be characters some write about in books, to be understood at best, instead of believed and ending up with the shudders.

budaatum:


Perhaps my "near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high" because there was no most high, or simply because my mind was not filled prior to the experience with an encounter with the most high.

Birds fly with what is in their belly, you see, just as we humans imagine what we believe or think of. And I don't exactly believe in a most high since I very well know most highs tend to be characters some write about in books, to be understood at best, instead of believed and ending up with the shudders.

Imagine you trying to buttress your point with the same book created by and credited to the God you claim not to believe in.... Isn't that a traits of hypocrisy? Lol.... Sir/Ma, please kindly stop deceiving yourself cos you trying to be woke... No offense

Wawelexy:

Imagine you trying to buttress your point with the same book created by and credited to the God you claim not to believe in.... Isn't that a traits of hypocrisy? Lol.... Sir/Ma, please kindly stop deceiving yourself cos you trying to be woke... No offense

It's one of the amazing books ever written and is very worth reading, but believing it instead of understanding it is just the complete waste of brain cells and the book. You wouldn't believe Things Fall Apart not Harry Potter, so why believe any book?

And no, I'm not trying to be woke. I am very woke indeed. Do note.

budaatum:


It's one of the amazing books ever written and is very worth reading, but believing it instead of understanding it is just the complete waste of brain cells and the book. You wouldn't believe Things Fall Apart not Harry Potter, so why believe any book?

And no, I'm not trying to be woke. I am very woke indeed. Do note.

You compare the bible with a novel? That's the height of it.... This shows you don't even know what you are arguing about... The book is meant to be read, understand and most importantly believe it.... You need to attain a particular level of spiritual advancement of knowledge before you can comprehend what I typed..... Judging by our discussion so far, I can confidently say you are not matured, might not necessarily be physical maturity, but otherwise... Not surprised tho...


Mind you, you can never be woke than those who are your eye openers, never! Yet they acknowledge what I am telling you... I will still call you a wannabe... No offense

TenQ:

I laugh with you too.... VERY FUNNY!

Except this is a blatant fabrication, I honestly don't understand how a dead person on his bed can see outside his room and seeing his weeping wife.

I've been laughing at this too. Very funny!

LMAO! Please laugh very well at this wonderful tale that you god believers cannot even agree on. Bwahahahahahaha!

Wawelexy:



You compare the bible with a novel? That's the height of it.... This shows you don't even know what you are arguing about... The book is meant to be read, understand and most importantly believe it.... You need to attain a particular level of spiritual advancement of knowledge before you can comprehend what I typed..... Judging by our discussion so far, I can confidently say you are not matured, might not necessarily be physical maturity, but otherwise... Not surprised tho...


Mind you, you can never be woke than those who are your eye openers, never! Yet they acknowledge what I am telling you... I will still call you a wannabe... No offense

Why does "spiritual advancement" matter?

LordReed:


Why does "spiritual advancement" matter?

Really? Why do you need to advance in your studies before you can become a graduate?

Perhaps you'd feel better if I add a Physics textbook and a book on history, which you should equally not believe but aim to understand.

Wawelexy:

You compare the bible with a novel? That's the height of it.... This shows you don't even know what you are arguing about... The book is meant to be read, understand and most importantly believe it....

TenQ:
■ God made the rule of death for mankind : true or false? Enoch was an exception to the rule of death for mankind : true or false?

First of all Death is not a rule but God's judgment/ curse on mankind as a result of Adam's sin.

19 You will work hard for your food, until your face is covered with sweat. You will work hard until the day you die, and then you will become dust again. I used dust to make you, and when you die, you will become dust again.”
20 Adam named his wife Eve. He gave her this name because Eve would be the mother of everyone who ever lived.
21 The Lord God used animal skins and made some clothes for the man and his wife. Then he put the clothes on them.
22 The Lord God said, “Look, the man has become like us—he knows about good and evil. And now the man might take the fruit from the tree of life. If the man eats that fruit, he will live forever.”
23 So the Lord God forced the man out of the Garden of Eden to work the ground he was made from.
24 God forced the man to leave the garden. Then he put Cherub angels and a sword of fire at the entrance to the garden to protect it. The sword flashed around and around, guarding the way to the tree of life. - Genesis 3 vs 19 - 24

The first "exception" to that curse came in the person of Abel, Adam's own son, who Jesus Christ revealed was approved righteous by God and hence sleeps in his grave — Abel obtained eternal life which was deprived those who are instead reduced to dust by the curse.

34 So I tell you this: I send to you prophets and teachers who are wise and know the Scriptures. You will kill some of them. You will hang some of them on crosses. You will beat some of them in your synagogues. You will chase them from town to town.
35 “So you will be guilty for the death of all the good people who have been killed on earth. You will be guilty for the killing of that godly man Abel. And you will be guilty for the killing of Zechariah[a] son of Berachiah. He was killed between the Temple and the altar. You will be guilty for the killing of all the good people who lived between the time of Abel and the time of Zechariah.
36 Believe me when I say that all these things will happen to you people who are living now. - Matthew 23 vs 34 - 36

The thing to note is that all that you refer to as "exceptions" to God's judgment and curse are made by God only to the righteous.

Wawelexy:
■ I have been there myself, so I know what he's talking about.... Someone who has never been to China can never describe how it looks to you that have been there severally.... From his description, you can always tell if truly he's been there or maybe someone told him or better still he saw it in a book or video... Hope you get my point?

1. Stop lying!

None of you have been there. Rather, you have instead been to the illusion created of Heaven in your minds courtesy of the fantastical pictures painted for you by your many pastors and mogs. Ask an AI tool to draw you a picture of Heaven using the very same descriptions fed to you by your pastors and mogs, and you will equally say the AI tool has also been to Heaven by what it reveals. I too used to have some of those same pictures inside of my head until I realized they were all made up from the many descriptions fed to me from the mouths of pastors and mogs, all ideas that are not based on scripture itself.

Wawelexy:



Really? Why do you need to advance in your studies before you can become a graduate?

Because I will become a graduate.

Wawelexy:
■ Well, your near death experience does not in any relate to having an encounter with the most high, near death experiences are natural but rare, while having an encounter with God is sacred and for only the chosen one, that's the difference you failed to see....

Look, you people keep casting God as a liar by your many claims and it doesn't bother you one bit that you do, how come?

The only source of visions in our day and age is Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ made clear that only those who are Holy — perfect in His Kingdom — will be given visions and these revelations will be of the Kingdom of God and of the Truth of Jesus Christ, all by the Spirit of Truth aka the Holy Spirit who is subject to Jesus Christ in all-wise - John 14 vs 15 - 26 & John 15 vs 26 - 27 & John 16 vs 4 - 16. So, where do you folks claim to source your many "encounters" with God in your unholiness from? Certainly not from the Most High unless you believe Him a liar.

Wawelexy:
■ Imagine you trying to buttress your point with the same book created by and credited to the God you claim not to believe in.... Isn't that a traits of hypocrisy? Lol.... Sir/Ma, please kindly stop deceiving yourself cos you trying to be woke... No offense

Do you, who cast this same God, as nothing but a demented liar, believe in Him?

budaatum:


Please, TenQ, this thread is doctrine.

Everyone who lives knows that though from inside our mothers do we come forth, dust is what we return to when we die despite all the claims we wish to make about near death which is not death!

No sir!

A Doctrine in this sense is a spiritually established fact.

I cannot stick out my neck for any NDE as doctrine.

My objective is that especially you atheists will listen to Prof Howard Storm and judge if there is a semblance of truth in his testimony!

QED!

budaatum:


It also seems to be the temporary suspension of the use of the brain if you asked me.

But perhaps that's why "Christians", some at least, never hunger, because manna miraculously falls into their mouths from heaven, and despite God being written to have supposedly stated otherwise, that you would sweat (work) before you eat!

There is NOTHING on earth that is permanent including Miracles.

Miracles are just temporal suspension of the laws of nature.

God Never designed that man live by miracles:No!

Man was designed to bend nature to his will by share force of knowledge and Hardworking while living according to God's Word

budaatum:


Ah. And there was me thinking you believed it.

My apology is tendered

So are you saying that ALL NDE with OBE is a fabrication?

Prof Howard's experience reported an OBE!

Wawelexy:




I have been there myself, so I know what he's talking about.... Someone who has never been to China can never describe how it looks to you that have been there severally.... From his description, you can always tell if truly he's been there or maybe someone told him or better still he saw it in a book or video... Hope you get my point?

Overwhelming verifiable report of subjective experiences don't move anyone who have chosen to take the stance of atheism

TenQ:

So are you saying that ALL NDE with OBE is a fabrication?

Prof Howard's experience reported an OBE!

No, I am not saying "ALL NDE with OBE is a fabrication".

I am saying the experience is not of something that is real, more or less like a dream is not real but a figment of the imagination and the mind.

budaatum:


It could be an elaborate conscious elaborate fabrication, like Swedenborg's, or an unconscious elaborate fabrication brought on by his mind while he was near death. Fact is, it is not a experience of a real thing that actually happened.

You said:
Fact is, it is not a experience of a real thing that actually happened.

Unfortunately, it is Not your experience and there are even reports of more compelling OBE with verifiable scientific reports. This is why scientists don't deny OBEs

TenQ:

No sir!

A Doctrine in this sense is a spiritually established fact.

I cannot stick out my neck for any NDE as doctrine.

My objective is that especially you atheists will listen to Prof Howard Storm and judge if there is a semblance of truth in his testimony!

QED!

In your own personal sense, perhaps, just as you can decide in your sense that water is petrol.

In the generally accepted sense, a doctrine is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by....... I've left the gap for you to fill.

LordReed:


LMAO! Please laugh very well at this wonderful tale that you god believers cannot even agree on. Bwahahahahahaha!

Laughing at what you don't understand is the peak of rashness.
Prof Howard was a conc Atheist when he had his experience, deal with it.

Was this Atheist lying with his experience?

Kobojunkie:
First of all Death is not a rule but God's judgment/ curse on mankind as a result of Adam's sin.
The first "exception" to that curse came in the person of Abel, Adam's own son, who Jesus Christ revealed was approved righteous by God and hence sleeps in his grave — Abel obtained eternal life which was deprived those who are instead reduced to dust by the curse.
The thing to note is that all that you refer to as "exceptions" to God's judgment and curse are made by God only to the righteous.

So, you are saying that death did not come to all may kind through the curse on Adam and Eve!

budaatum:


In your own personal sense, perhaps, just as you can decide in your sense that water is petrol.

In the generally accepted sense, a doctrine is a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by....... I've left the gap for you to fill.

And I will not be caught teaching NDE as doctrine : therefore it is not doctrine to me

TenQ:

You said:
Fact is, it is not a experience of a real thing that actually happened.

Unfortunately, it is Not your experience and there are even reports of more compelling OBE with verifiable scientific reports. This is why scientists don't deny OBEs

I am not denying NDEs or OBEs. I am claiming that what ever you experience under the terms is not a real physical thing.

Like you might see angels or go to heaven or hell as part of your NDE and or OBE, but claiming therefore that angels or heaven or hell exist or that you went to an actual heaven or hell is untrue.

If, as part of your NDE or OBE, you went to a lavish restaurants and ate a fancy meal, there would be no evidence of it in your belly and you'd be as hungry as you were before the experience just as would be the case if you dreamt it.

https://www.nairaland.com/7726647/near-death-experience-atheist-professor/1#123786239

budaatum:


No, I am not saying "ALL NDE with OBE is a fabrication".

I am saying the experience is not of something that is real, more or less like a dream is not real but a figment of the imagination and the mind.

Let's assume OBEs are all Dreams: can you justify or explain why some OBEs report what is considered impossible for the subject to know (as a dream)

.

TenQ:

Let's assume OBEs are all Dreams: can you justify or explain why some OBEs report what is considered impossible for the subject to know (as a dream)

Yes. They think they don't know it but do. The unconscious is a very powerful thing, as is the mind.

They could also be lying that they do not know.

TenQ:

Laughing at what you don't understand is the peak of rashness.
Prof Howard was a conc Atheist when he had his experience, deal with it.

Was this Atheist lying with his experience?

What am I not understanding?

Did I say he didn't have an experience?

TenQ:
■ So, you are saying that death did not come to all may kind through the curse on Adam and Eve!

This is what I said

Kobojunkie:
First of all Death is not a rule but God's judgment/ curse on mankind as a result of Adam's sin.
The first "exception" to that curse came in the person of Abel, Adam's own son, who Jesus Christ revealed was approved righteous by God and hence sleeps in his grave — Abel obtained eternal life which was deprived those who are instead reduced to dust by the curse.
The thing to note is that all that you refer to as "exceptions" to God's judgment and curse are made by God only to the righteous.

TenQ:
■ Overwhelming verifiable report of subjective experiences don't move anyone who have chosen to take the stance of atheism

Did God or Jesus Christ state anywhere in Scripture that Hell or Heaven is meant to be this subjective experiences you speak of?

Kobojunkie:
Did God or Jesus Christ state anywhere in Scripture that Hell or Heaven is meant to be this subjective experiences you speak of?

Are you an Atheist?

Atheists do not belive in subjective experiences! What about you!

Example : The Transfiguration of Christ!

TenQ:
■ Are you an Atheist? Atheists do not belive in subjective experiences! What about you!
■ Example : The Transfiguration of Christ!

1. Does God Himself believe in your subjective experiences? Nothing of the Born-again experience is subjective in nature since each and everyone has to experience the same things and come away with the same proofs. So where do these subjective experiences you speak of come from?

2. How in the world was the transfiguration on the Mount a subjective experience when it was witnessed by those around Jesus Christ at the time?