i thought the more electricity generated means more money for the government ,which also reduces the consumption of fuel, is it that the government dont have adequate resources for electricty generation or the government dont want to make money from electricity generation? or which is it

Well, you want the truth, or the false story?

Truth: Government has been setting prices for electricity below the production cost to help the poor. Also, a significant percentage of electricity consumers do not pay for the power they consume.

The result, the sector cannot make a profit, and thus there is no money to fix things well.

This happened when there was NEPA, and when there was PHCN and now DISCOS and GENCOS.

(This 2018/9 paper by PwC gives the real koko)

nairalanda1:
Well, you want the truth, or the false story?

Truth: Government has been setting prices for electricity below the production cost to help the poor. Also, a significant percentage of electricity consumers do not pay for the power they consume.

The result, the sector cannot make a profit, and thus there is no money to fix things well.

This happened when there was NEPA, and when there was PHCN and now DISCOS and GENCOS.

(This 2018/9 paper by PwC gives the real koko)

See them Dem don come again, helping the oppressors pushing false narrative or gaslighting a narrative that is only acceptable to there paymasters.

Because we are deceiving ourselves until we explore geothermal and nuclear energy

Ahmeduana:

See them Dem don come again, helping the oppressors pushing false narrative or gaslighting a narrative that is only acceptable to there paymasters.

Like I said , you want the truth, or the same old story.

The thing is, when you do price controls, you always end up with serious issues.

Wonder why the telecoms sector had problems when it was just NTEL, and does not with MTN et al..no price controls. As a result...the companies can earn enough profit to fix and build antenna and lay wires and grow the sector.

Meanwhile, DISCOS cannot charge above cost of production (Buhari even froze prices for two years self)...and as a result don't have enough to pay GENCOS and TCN. Several of them have even gone out of business and had to be taken over by the banks, and in one instance government.

If Government is setting your prices, there is no way you can make a profit.

(And Government price setting is even a sign of how bad government is, not defending them, oga.)

Modifed

Whenever I write something similar to what I wrote above, it is assumed I am defending government.

LOL...I am not defending government

Infact government setting prices is the mark of a government that does not know economics.

nairalanda1:
Well, you want the truth, or the false story?

Truth: Government has been setting prices for electricity below the production cost to help the poor. Also, a significant percentage of electricity consumers do not pay for the power they consume.

The result, the sector cannot make a profit, and thus there is no money to fix things well.

This happened when there was NEPA, and when there was PHCN and now DISCOS and GENCOS.

(This 2018/9 paper by PwC gives the real koko)

Electricity is heavily subsidised in Nigeria. People who can provide 24/7 electricity can’t invest because of the subsidy. As minimum wage increases and people can afford more electricity, government will remove the subsidy. Electricity prices will increase, and as a result there will be more light.

nairalanda1:
Well, you want the truth, or the false story?

Truth: Government has been setting prices for electricity below the production cost to help the poor. Also, a significant percentage of electricity consumers do not pay for the power they consume.

The result, the sector cannot make a profit, and thus there is no money to fix things well.

This happened when there was NEPA, and when there was PHCN and now DISCOS and GENCOS.

(This 2018/9 paper by PwC gives the real koko)

so your saying even with all this power generation the goverment still dont make profits?

nairalanda1:



Like I said , you want the truth, or the same old story.

The thing is, when you do price controls, you always end up with serious issues.

Wonder why the telecoms sector had problems when it was just NTEL, and does not with MTN et al..no price controls. As a result...the companies can earn enough profit to fix and build antenna and lay wires and grow the sector.

Meanwhile, DISCOS cannot charge above cost of production (Buhari even froze prices for two years self)...and as a result don't have enough to pay GENCOS and TCN. Several of them have even gone out of business and had to be taken over by the banks, and in one instance government.

If Government is setting your prices, there is no way you can make a profit.

(And Government price setting is even a sign of how bad government is, not defending them, oga.)

I heard electricity is now deregulated meaning states and private sectors now can generate, distribute and transmit electricity within that state.

What is the implication? Is the electricity subsidy removed thereforth with this law pls?

arejibadz:
so your saying even with all this power generation the goverment still dont make profits?

Government , first of all, has privatized distribution and generation since 2013.

And yeah, they have issues with profits, to the point that some of them have been taken over by the banks. (One of them, the DISCO covering the North east has been taken over by the government self).

Transmission that is in government hands depends on monies paid by discos and gencos...which have issues.

Ebubu6:
I heard electricity is now deregulated meaning states and private sectors now can generate, distribute and transmit electricity within that state.

What is the implication? Is the electricity subsidy removed thereforth with this law pls?

Remains to be seen

Government did claim to have removed subsidy in 2021, but with the way DISCOS are still looking for approval to increase prices, I doubt.

nairalanda1:


Remains to be seen

Government did claim to have removed subsidy in 2021, but with the way DISCOS are still looking for approval to increase prices, I doubt.

the subsidy may have been truly removed. Delay in approving discos request to increase price is so as not to crump the common man at once. They’re still adjusting to fuel subsidy removal and education subsidy removal. By next year ending they will have fully adjusted and permission will be given to discos to dictate their own price by that early of next two years when Nigerians will have fully adjusted to fuel and education subsidy removals.

If you hike all the prices at once, massive protest, if you phase all the price increases differently, it’s easier. Same reason why the increase in electricity tarriff was pushed to September 1st.

That may not be the final increment, but it’s a small step in the right direction to attract more investments in electricity sector.

Everything in Nigeria is rocket science from electricity generation to fuel refining to vehicle manufacturing, but a little country under a very large bombardment led by Britain, soviet, Egypt, sudan, Syria was able to tefine fuel, generate electricity and still inflict maximum damage on the Nigerian military

Ask Fashola

Everything in Nigeria is rocket science from electricity generation to fuel refining to vehicle manufacturing

kettykings:
Everything in Nigeria is rocket science from electricity generation to fuel refining to vehicle manufacturing

Electricity generation and fuel refining are bad because both of them are not allowed to set the prices that they should sell their product (well until recently, for fuel). That means poor or no profits, and a subsidy that cannot cover the resultant losses adequately.

Car manufacturing ? A big problem is that we don't have enough small industries to manufacture the small bits and pieces that go into a car. (even when we were assembling tons of cars in the country in the 1970's and early 80's, we were importing everything enmasse for the assembly plants......which could not be sustained for ever). Then we didn't complete Ajaokuta.

nairalanda1:
Well, you want the truth, or the false story?

Truth: Government has been setting prices for electricity below the production cost to help the poor. Also, a significant percentage of electricity consumers do not pay for the power they consume.

The result, the sector cannot make a profit, and thus there is no money to fix things well.

This happened when there was NEPA, and when there was PHCN and now DISCOS and GENCOS.

(This 2018/9 paper by PwC gives the real koko)

If this your story is true, then why have the discos been steadily increasing the prices and only put that of second half of the year on hold due to outcry of too many increases in utilities?

You are not a smart liar.

This one pass am ooh

CodeTemplar:
If this your story is true, then why have the discos been steadily increasing the prices and only put that of second half of the year on hold due to outcry of too many increases in utilities?

Because they have to make money, especially since from 2017-19, their prices were frozen and they were not allowed to increase prices, and also, because many of them owe debts to the point they have been taken over by the banks.

And they would have raised prices if not for the fact that the government is still setting their prices/they are not fully free to raise prices.

It's the same reason why other people like your local trader and bus driver raise prices. Cost of things go up.It's not nice, but there it is.

Corruption in government is 80% responsible for underdevelopment in Nigeria


Qatar population: 2.9 million

Qatar electricity: 10,000 megawatts



Nigeria population: 180 million
Nigeria electricity: 5,000 megawatts

---

Egypt added 25,000 megawatts (MW) of new power stations to their national electricity grid during the period from June 2014 to June 2018. Got that? 25,000 MW in just 4 years.

In October 2018, project consortium partners Siemens, Elsewedy Electric and Orascom Construction officially unveiled one of the largest combined cycle megaprojects in Beni Suef,
Egypt. The teams completed three plants totalling 14,400 MW in a record time of 27.5 months at the cost of €6 billion.

Buhari has been in power for 7 years +, how many megawatts has been added? He keeps borrowing and borrowing with no tangible thing to show for it.

nairalanda1:


Because they have to make money, especially since from 2017-19, their prices were frozen and they were not allowed to increase prices, and also, because many of them owe debts to the point they have been taken over by the banks.

And they would have raised prices if not for the fact that the government is still setting their prices/they are not fully free to raise prices.

It's the same reason why other people like your local trader and bus driver raise prices. Cost of things go up.It's not nice, but there it is.

The prices NERC is setting aren't harsh in anyways. They reflect cost of production to a large extent and I endorse that because the moment NERC isn't there to regulate excesses, the discos will gladly choke Nigerians with extortion. If they cannot make prepaid metres readily and cheaply available like telcos did, let them gladly go burst and endure hypertension if they have to. They enjoy estimated billing because it gives them leverage to make claims and collect money for power that was never generated, talk less of being delivered to customers.

jmoore:
Corruption in government is 80% responsible for underdevelopment in Nigeria


Qatar population: 2.9 million

Qatar electricity: 10,000 megawattS
Nigeria population: 180 million
Nigeria electricity: 5,000 megawatts

Qatar oil production 1.3m barrels of crude
Nigeria: 1.5 m barrels of crude

Per capita, Qatar has a higher GDP than Nigeria.

Thus Qatar can afford 10000MW using just its oil revenue. Nigeria cannot do that.





[

hr]


Egypt added 25,000 megawatts (MW) of new power stations to their national electricity grid during the period from June 2014 to June 2018. Got that? 25,000 MW in just 4 years.

Egypt also was removing subsides from electricity round about the same time.(started in 2014.). Egypt also earns billion from toursim and has a diversified economy.

Naturally, no subsides means attracting investment.



Buhari borrowed for two reasons

1.He kept petrol subsidy, which increased the deficit in the budget, forcing him to take loans

2.Crude oil prices were low for most of his regime...low for a nation our size...which meant we had to take loans to keep our head above water

3.Corruption, corruption

(Not defending Buhari or tinubu...if he had removed subsidy in June 2015, we would have been over the worst, and saved money even.)

CodeTemplar:
The prices NERC is setting aren't harsh in anyways. They reflect cost of production to a large extent and I endorse that because the moment NERC isn't there to regulate excesses, the discos will gladly choke Nigerians with extortion. If they cannot make prepaid metres readily and cheaply available like telcos did, let them gladly go burst and endure hypertension if they have to. They enjoy estimated billing because it gives them leverage to make claims and collect money for power that was never generated, talk less of being delivered to customers.

Not quite.

In 2019, it cost N53 to produce one kwh of power (Moghalu), N83 (pwc) and power cost N20-30

Natrually, there were losses as a result.

Then about 30-40% of customers do not pay for power they consume as at 2019 (PwC).

All that adds up to issues with liqudity.

PWC has a good paper on the issue...read it here.

Nigerian political leaders love setting prices low...it is a cheap way to win votes., and stay in power.

nairalanda1:


Not quite.

In 2019, it cost N53 to produce one kwh of power (Moghalu), N83 (pwc) and power cost N20-30

Natrually, there were losses as a result.

Then about 30-40% of customers do not pay for power they consume as at 2019 (PwC).

All that adds up to issues with liqudity.

PWC has a good paper on the issue...read it here.

Nigerian political leaders love setting prices low...it is a cheap way to win votes., and stay in power.

...and who measures the unmetred power if not figures cooked by crooked discos who prefer estimation of bills.

Ahmeduana:

See them Dem don come again, helping the oppressors pushing false narrative or gaslighting a narrative that is only acceptable to there paymasters.

That is the FACT he just told you.

jmoore:
Corruption in government is 80% responsible for underdevelopment in Nigeria


Qatar population: 2.9 million

Qatar electricity: 10,000 megawatts



Nigeria population: 180 million
Nigeria electricity: 5,000 megawatts

---

Egypt added 25,000 megawatts (MW) of new power stations to their national electricity grid during the period from June 2014 to June 2018. Got that? 25,000 MW in just 4 years.

In October 2018, project consortium partners Siemens, Elsewedy Electric and Orascom Construction officially unveiled one of the largest combined cycle megaprojects in Beni Suef,
Egypt. The teams completed three plants totalling 14,400 MW in a record time of 27.5 months at the cost of €6 billion.

Buhari has been in power for 7 years +, how many megawatts has been added? He keeps borrowing and borrowing with no tangible thing to show for it.

On point.

It's not rocket science but the rot and corruption going on in the system in our country, our approach to life as citizens and unending greed of our leaders.. You'd be surprised that some Nigerians (not Ghanians or Togolese) don't want power sector to function so they can keep importing generators into the country. They have their men stationed in all key places to ensure nothing works just so they can keep feeding fat.
Take the case of Atiku and Mikano for example, you'd see that either the man wasn't bright or was very corrupt. What can generator do? Is it even safe to be using generators to power equipment? The answer is NO.

nairalanda1:


Qatar oil production 1.3m barrels of crude
Nigeria: 1.5 m barrels of crude

Per capita, Qatar has a higher GDP than Nigeria.

Thus Qatar can afford 10000MW using just its oil revenue. Nigeria cannot do that.

Dangote didn't build Dangote refinery with his own money.


Must Nigeria build everything with their own money? The borrowing they have been borrowing, what tangible thing have they achieved with it? Your talk of subsidy is sounding like a broken record.


Egypt completed three plants totalling 14,400 MW in a
record time of 27.5 months at the cost of €6 billion.

A good government that understands good governance should not find it hard to borrow such amount and invest in generation. It has many ripple effects. If we have enough and stable power supply, the hardship of petrol subsidy removal won't be high as it is now because many business that depend on generators to run their businesses will be using the national grid.

Corruption 80% and lack of vision 20% is responsible for underdevelopment of Nigeria.

It’s not rocket science. Do you know anything about rocket science apart from spelling the phrase? We are generating enough energy and even giving Ghana, Cameroon, Chad, Niger Republic.

The issue is that of distribution, not generation.

jmoore:


Dangote didn't build Dangote refinery with his own money.


Must Nigeria build everything with their own money? The borrowing they have been borrowing, what tangible thing have they achieved with it? Your talk of subsidy is sounding like a broken record.


Egypt completed three plants totalling 14,400 MW in a
record time of 27.5 months at the cost of €6 billion.

A good government that understands good governance should not find it hard to borrow such amount and invest in generation. It has many ripple effects. If we have enough and stable power supply, the hardship of petrol subsidy removal won't be high as it is now because many business that depend on generators to run their businesses will be using the national grid.

Corruption 80% and lack of vision 20% is responsible for underdevelopment of Nigeria.

Yeah, Dangote took loans.

Andhe used his other investments as collateral.

Most other investors could not build refineries because they did not have that type of collateral

Plus who go build refinery when subsidy means you will sell fuel from there at a loss?

CodeTemplar:
...and who measures the unmetred power if not figures cooked by crooked discos who prefer estimation of bills.

At least my local disco did have an aggresive metering campaign.

But even then, most discos were not earning much profit, which is why the banks took them over.

nairalanda1:


Yeah, Dangote took loans.

Andhe used his other investments as collateral.

Most other investors could not build refineries because they did not have that type of collateral

Plus who go build refinery when subsidy means you will sell fuel from there at a loss?

You keep talking about investor. Who told you government can't invest? Must you depend on private?



Beni Suef Power Plant is owned by Egyptian government 100%. Use Google to learn more about what Egyptian government have done in terms of power generation in Egypt.

jmoore:


You keep talking about investor. Who told you government can't invest? Must you depend on private?



Beni Suef Power Plant is owned by Egyptian government 100%. Use Google to learn more about what Egyptian government have done in terms of power generation in Egypt.

At the end the money government would have invested was being spent on subsides

You see why some of us didn't like the thing called subsidy