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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? (1162 Views)
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:14pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: I believe my Books than your source! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:16pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:enjoy etymology. Etymology is basically the account of the birth and development of a word. I like to say, "All words have a story to tell." Hubal, Uzza and Manat were worshipped inside where? When you pray you turn to where? 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:17pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:I donât want you to âBelieveâ me. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:17pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: Where they worshipped when Abraham built the place? They came to be worshiped in between and they were later destroyed! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:20pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Abraham didnât build anything. And Hubal was worshipped in the qurasyh kaaba, he was the chief god there. There were other kaabas. Hubal had his stone in the kaaba which is been kissed till now. Look up âpre islamicâ. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:20pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: The texts of Islam: 1 â Muslim (969) narrated that Abuâl-Hayaaj al-Asadi said: âAli ibn Abi Taalib said to me: âShall I not send you with the same instructions as the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent me? âDo not leave any image without defacing it or any built-up grave without leveling it.ââ 2 â Muslim (832) narrated from âUrwah ibn âAbasah that he said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): âWith what were you sent?â He said, âI was sent to uphold the ties of kinship, to break the idols, and so that Allaah would be worshipped alone with no partner or associate.â |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:21pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Mohammed was shifting to Monotheism. The Black Stone represents Hubal. 1 Like 1 Share
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:24pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: You are telling me to believe Wikipedia and your online sources as against my book that came before internet! Hubal Stone is being kissed! Chai! it is proven that the âUmar ibn al-Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) said, when he kissed the Black Stone : I know that you are a stone and have no power to harm or benefit; were it not that I saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you. And this is our position! With regard to what some ignorant people think, that the purpose behind that is to seek blessing (barakah) from it, there is no basis for that, so it is invalid. Sorry! I'll pass! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:24pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: So he broke Hubal and kept worshiping it? |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:25pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:He was moving to monotheism. He destroyed the idols but left the black stone. https://www.dhushara.com/book/sakina/kaaba/BlackStone.html
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:26pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Lol, i wondered why the prophet was kissing it, for fun I guess I know itâs hard to leave. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:28pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: Our belief about the Black stone is sure different! 1. The Black Stone was sent down by Allah to this earth from Paradise. It was narrated that Ibn âAbbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: âThe Black Stone came down from Paradise.â (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaaâi, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi). 2. The Stone was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black. It was narrated that Ibn âAbbaa said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: âWhen the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.â (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462). (a) Al-Mubaarakfoori said in al-Marqaah: This means, the sins of the sons of Adam who touched the stone, caused it to turn black. The hadeeth should be taken at face value, because there is no reason not to, either narrated in a report or by virtue of common sense. (Tuhfat al-Ahwadhi, 3/525) (b) Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said: Some heretics tried to criticize this hadeeth by saying: How come the sins of the mushrikeen turned it black and the worship of the people of Tawheed did not make it white? I answer by quoting what Ibn Qutaybah said: If Allah had willed, that would have happened. But Allah has caused it to be the case that black usually changes other colours and its not itself changed, which is the opposite to what happens with white. (c) Al-Muhibb al-Tabari said: The fact that it is black is a lesson for those who have insight. If sins can have this effect on an inanimate rock, then the effect they have on the heart is greater. See Fath al-Baari, 3/463 3. The Black Stone will come forth on the Day of Resurrection and will testify in favour of those who touched it in truth. It was narrated that Ibn âAbbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said concerning the Stone: âBy Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.â Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944 This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi, and as qawiy by al-Haafiz ibn Hajar in Fath al-Baari, 3/462 (4) Touching, kissing or pointing to the Black Stone â this is the first thing to be done when starting Tawaaf, whether it is for Hajj or âUmrah, or voluntary Tawaaf. It was narrated from Jaabir ibn âAbd-Allah (may Allah be pleased with him) that when the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) came to Makkaah, he came to the Black Stone and touched it, then he walked to the right of it and ran three times and walked four times [around the Kaâbah]. (narrated by Muslim, 1218). (5) The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kissed the Black Stone, and his ummah followed his lead in doing so. It was narrated that âUmar (may Allah be pleased with him) came to the Black Stone and kissed it, then he said: âI know that you are only a stone which can neither bring benefit nor cause harm. Were it not that I had seen the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) kiss you, I would not have kissed you.â (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1520; Muslim, 1720) (6) If a person is unable to kiss the Stone, he should touch it with his hand or something else, then he can kiss the thing with which he touched it. (a) It was narrated that Naafiâ said: I saw Ibn âUmar touch the Stone with his hand then he kissed his hand. I said, I have never ceased to do this since I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) do it. (Narrated by Muslim, 1268) (b) It was narrated that Abu Tufayl (may Allah be pleased with him) said: I saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff. (Narrated by Muslim, 1275). (7) If a person is unable to do the above, then he can point to it with his hand and say âAllahu akbarâ. It was narrated that Ibn âAbbas said: The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performed Tawaaf on his camel, and every time he came to the corner [where the Stone is] he would point to it and say âAllahu akbar.â (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4987). ( Touching the Stone is one of the things by means of which Allah expiates for sins It was narrated that Ibn âUmar said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say: âTouching them both [the Black Stone and al-Rukn al-Yamani] is an expiation for sins.â (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 959. This hadeeth was classed as hasan by al-Tirmidhi and as saheeh by al-Haakim (1/664). Al-Dhahabi agreed with him). It is not permissible for a Muslim to annoy other Muslims at the Stone by hitting or fighting. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) told us that the Stone will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity, which is not the case when a person touches it by disturbing the slaves of Allah. And Allah knows best. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 5:29pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
Maynman: This has just been answered! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:31pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Allah sent down a stone, lol. Other kaabas had their stones too. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_Dhul_Khalasa
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 5:31pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Yes mohammed was kissing for fun. âI saw the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) kissing you, I would not have kissed you. And this is our position!â âI saw the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) performing Tawaaf around the House, touching the corner [where the Stone is] with a crooked staff which he had with him, then kissing the staff.â |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by RightChannel: 5:56pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian: Masculine plural below the second red underlined, so what did you understand by the word masculine plural?
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by TenQ: 6:49pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
AntiChristian:When ignorance is at its peak and it has stupidity on top of it. Main Ignorance of AntiChristian : Elohim is aka Yahweh On this ignorance, all his confusion are based. 1. The word Elohim or Eloha is NOT the name of Yahweh the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. 2. The word Elohim or Eloha means DEITY ( God or gods) 3. Any Deity can be referred to as Elohim (plural) or Eloha (singular) 4. The Jews rarely call their God Yahweh by name, rather they will call him by the titles: Adoni (Lord) Elohim (Plural Majesty of Eloha) The Praised One (Hashim) Deut 6:4 Hear, Israel: LORD JEHOVAH our God, LORD JEHOVAH is One: Is the central scripture repeated 3 time a day as the Jews pray in the synagogue or temple. If you have objection to the above, then FIRST explain : why Allah calls himself WE or OURSELF as Allah claims to be one! Then we can explain further |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Nobody: 11:45pm On Jul 17, 2023 |
RightChannel: But he's right. And yes! I'm a Christian. The fact that the word means gods/God/the sons of God/heavenly beings shouldn't make you insult the brother. Remember, your (our) own 'Elohim' came out to say that His name is Yahweh, Jehovah... So He's different from the other entities that can be classified as Elohim. Again, on the part of the Muslim brother, this is a pointless argument, what was the aim? That we are worshipping Angels or gods? Remember, that same 'Elohim' is who you all refer to when you use the old testament of the Bible to confirm your Abrahamic and Allah-ic stories... |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by A001: 12:26am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Otem's book of history is your best source for the answer. They're a group of gods or godhead headed by god El and worked in league with Allah/Yahweh in the Old World to enslave humans via religion. Whenever you read your Bible or Qur'an (especially those parts in the latter where Allah says 'We'), just have it at the back of your mind, these are the group (Elohim in league with Allah/Jehovah) being referred to. Those are the entities you, Muslims and Christians, worship. All of them are past humans. They're all trivial and tiny in the current scheme of things. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 7:55am On Jul 18, 2023 |
Otem ko Otem ni! A001: 1 Like |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 8:01am On Jul 18, 2023 |
TenQ: You still can't explain Elohim without joining Allah right? At least you can explain to rightchannel that my translations are not lies and that he is the ignorant and arrogant liar! And from your translation of Elohim as Deity, can Moses, Satan and Angels be regarded as Plural Deities too? |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 8:19am On Jul 18, 2023 |
RightChannel: Elohim is masculine and translated as gods in your attachment! In Genesis 1:1, In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Elohim is the same masculine plural! In Genesis 32:28, where Jacob fought God aka Angel, Elohim is the same masculine plural! In Exodus 22:20, Elohim is gods, Elohim is the same masculine plural! In Exodus 7:1, Moses was Elohim to Pharaoh, Elohim is the same masculine plural! So? |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 8:23am On Jul 18, 2023 |
Maynman: Muhammad did kissed his wives also! Then he must have been worshiping them all too! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 8:25am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Does he do tawaaf around his wives before kissing them? Before mohammed was born, the black stone was been kissed and venerated. He even went for pilgrimage in Mecca before he started Islam. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 8:27am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian:You are supposed to kiss your WIFE, and your wife will kiss you back, are you supposed to kiss a STONE that is kept in the corner of a stone house called Kaabu? |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by A001: 8:34am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Mumu, lols. It's like someone saying Einstein ko, Einstein ni when discussing Modern Physics. Lols, Africans are so dull Even if Einstein himself were alive and read Otem's book, he'd be in awe of a mind that can produce that book. That's not an exaggeration. Highly intelligent people know a higher being (which you religionists ignorantly call god/God) when they see one or come across one online (like the case of Otem). Otem, Atum, Ifa, Soyinka, Einstein, Newton, Messi, Ronaldo, and many other greats in different fields are higher beings. Enough said. |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 8:36am On Jul 18, 2023 |
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Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by RightChannel: 8:45am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian: You were the one bringing different attachments and the prove it from the Holy Bible is the problem. REMEMBER in one of your posts you said NOT to believe in Wikipedia or any internet source except what is written in your Quran and hadith. So therefore, try and do the same by using HOLY BIBLE to prove yourself that is just it! #wink |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by RightChannel: 9:13am On Jul 18, 2023 |
preciousee17: To prove himself from the Holy Bible is what that is giving him headache, why not talk to him to tell us the name of his own Version preciousee17: But you said you're a Christian why now a Muslim? Address your dilemma and re-tagged my moniker |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by AntiChristian: 10:51am On Jul 18, 2023 |
Maynman: The worship started from Abraham! And since you don't believe they built the Kaaba, then nothing more! |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Maynman: 10:52am On Jul 18, 2023 |
AntiChristian:Abraham didnât build a house of stone in the tanakh. Abraham was never in Arabia. There are many Kaabas much older than the quraysh you have in mecca. What does âBakkahâ mean? |
Re: What Does "Elohim" Really Mean, God or gods or both? by Nobody: 11:19am On Jul 18, 2023 |
RightChannel:I think he did copy-and-paste from somewhere. But that looks like a concordance attached with NIV version So as he's giving out the scriptures, he tries to point out the words that the concordance marked as 'Elohim' or 'Eloha', 'Yahweh' etc. Remember, the Bible was written in Hebrew, so the translators didn't always translate each thing word for word, instead they translated in a way that made sense to combine as a sentence. They changed certain words like that to a more reader-friendly version... Hence the need for a concordance in order to see the exact translation...
I'm a Christian, did I make myself sound like a Muslim? :O Well, I know their beliefs a little, and the claim to be worshipping the same God of Abraham in the old testament, so they claim to be worshipping our 'Elohim'... Let this not bother you, I may not be able to explain this well. Please disregard if you don't understand. |
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