₦airaland Forum

honesttalk21:
.

Why were you making a space reservation?


The Question still remain the same:

Where is the Quran of Mohammed?
Where is the Quran of Uthman?
What happened to them?

TenQ:
Thank you for the compliment!

Did I make any mistake in my submission?
Did I exaggerate any of my points?
Did I represent the standard narrative of Islam apart for the questions?

Can you then help me resolve my questions?
Thanks

[i]Questions:

'How can we say we are wise when the false pen of the scribes had turns Word of God into LIE " Jeremiah 8:8. Quote a verse from the QUR'AN that cast DOUBT on its AUTHENTICITY like Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible. You make no effort to disclaime Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible but in vain labour about QUR'AN, what a pity.

gaskiyamagana:
'How can we say we are wise when the false pen of the scribes had turns Word of God into LIE " Jeremiah 8:8. Quote a verse from the QUR'AN that cast DOUBT on its AUTHENTICITY like Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible. You make no effort to disclaime Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible but in vain labour about QUR'AN, what a pity.

I wrote a whole thesis on this for you but just like a mule that carries a whole library of books on its back without learning the knowledge of its content, you didn't read it.

Unfortunately, that is not my fault as you were well copied. Check our previous writeup.

However, this is not about Jeremiah, it is about your Islamic Narrative.

Does it make sense for written Qur'an to be available yet the materials were discarded in favour of a Recitation coming 150 years after Mohammed died.

If Recitations were inaccurate during the time of the Khalifs, what gives you the confidence that recitations 150 years after is an accurate representation of the first written Qur'an?

TenQ:
The thread has indeed caused a Mass Alarm for the Muslims.

Indeed their Standard Islamic Narrative is breaking down before their eyes. The problem is they wouldn't ask Questions, hence they remain is their delusion.

Their case is like the case of a 419 who asked them to leave their valuable property down with me while they walk down ten Electricity Post WITHOUT LOOKING BACK!

Of cause, not looking back is the exact opportunity for the scammer to escape with their valuables. So is Islam that dissuades Muslims from asking Questions.


Mohammed is the most successful 419 in history : his scam is still working 1300 years after his death.

Muhammad was a criminal

The Questions:
1. If Recitations of the Qur'an could not be trusted during the lifetime of Khalif Uthman, why do you think that the Recitation of Hafs (who was born 150 years after the death of Mohammed) be trusted?

2. Where are the copies of the Qur'an sent to Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad so that we can compare it with the Hafs Qur'an.?

3. Explain why If the Isnad of the Qur'an is broken, how can the whole Qur'an not be Daif at best?

4. Why should anyone trust the Recitation of Hafs since he and his father are known as fraudulent according to Muslim sources?

ANTIlSLAM:
Muhammad was a criminal

Mohammed is the most successful 419 in history : his scam is still working 1300 years after his death.

Islam is a political system to enrich and empower a few at the expense of the poor and Ignorant.

This is why asking questions is forbidden : lest the eyes be opened and control become impossible

Note:
If you are interested in reading about the differences between the Hafs and Warsh Qur'ans you may read the writeup in the link below

https://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

During the Riddah wars many of the Sahabah who had memorized the Quran were killed, and Abu Bakr was afraid that the Quran would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahabah about compiling the Quran in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhari narrated in his Saheeh (4986)

Caliph Abu Bakr collected the Qur'an and wrote it in pamphlets and books in all its seven letters (the seven i.e. ways in which the Qur'an was revealed and which conform to the seven dialects of the Arabs at that time). The seven Ahrufs.

Uthman, the third caliph, recognized the potential for different dialects and variations in the Quranic recitations to create confusion.
To establish uniformity, he appointed a committee chaired by Zaid ibn Thabit to produce a standardized version of the Quran.

Uthman's recognition also followed from Hudhayfah's observations.
Ḥudhayfah was afraid of the differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ʿUthmān, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book [Qur’an] as Jews and the Christians did before.” Bukhari 4988.

Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the governor of Syria during Uthman's caliphate. Mu'awiyah played a crucial role in the distribution of standardized copies of the Quran. He ensured that accurate copies of the Quran were sent to major cities and regions under his rule, thereby ensuring the spread of the authentic Islamic scripture.

Note that in both Abu Bakr and Uthman's compillation of the Quran, Zaid ibn Thabit chaired the Quran writing commitees.

At the back of a Warsh Quran you will likely find"the riwaya of Imam Warsh from Nafi' al-Madini from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn al-Qa'qa' from 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas from Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Messenger of Allah. This shows the line of transmission. Similarly for the Hafs Quran you find the "riwaya of Hafs ibn Sulayman ibn al-Mughira al-Asadi al-Kufi of the qira'a of 'Asim ibn Abi'n-Nujud al-Kufi from Abu 'Abdu'r-Rahman 'Abdullah ibn Habib as-Sulami from 'Uthman ibn 'Affan and 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Prophet".

In both cases you see clear transmission lines leading back to the Prophet with Ubayy ibn Ka'b being the first link to the one pbuh through which the Quran was revealed to man.

In Turkey at the Topkapı Palace and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul, there are mushafs from Uthman and Ali's period. One of them was handwritten by Uthman, and the other two by Ali.

While the copy in Egypt was in the Mosque of Amr ibn al-Aas, it was presented to Ottoman Sultan Selim II and brought to Topkapı Palace after the conquest of Egypt.

Some claim that this is in fact the copy from Medina and that the last survivor of the Abbasid family took it with him while escaping to Egypt from the Mongol massacre. It is said that due to a blood-like stain on it, this is the mushaf that Uthman read while he was martyred.

Other mushafs belonging to the first period of Islam are displayed in Al-Hussein Mosque in Cairo, the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, the British Library in London, Hast Imam Library in Tashkent and other museums.

A newly opened museum in Mecca also features verses of the Quran written on bones and stones. The verses written on rocks and stones in the seventh century in Arabia have also survived to the present day.

gaskiyamagana:
No amount of your confusion in muddling, mingling and falsification of fact to justify your misguiding motive can rewrite, review or reverse sanctity and holiness of Qur'an. Knowing this is peace to your soul, cooler to your over heated-brain of criticism of Qur'an and reminder that Bible is worthless than ordinary text book of a subject written and review at any fucking time by the author or reproduce by another author.

Is that your final answer?

gaskiyamagana:
'How can we say we are wise when the false pen of the scribes had turns Word of God into LIE " Jeremiah 8:8. Quote a verse from the QUR'AN that cast DOUBT on its AUTHENTICITY like Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible. You make no effort to disclaime Jeremiah 8:8 on the Bible but in vain labour about QUR'AN, what a pity.

Is Jeremiah 8:8 the reason for the loss of the Qurans in question?

Weirdlycute:
Islam in itself seems to be contradictory to itself... The facts have been dropped,how can you not seem to defend the Religion you carry on your head...I'm quite curious

Ive been asking the same questions now and they keep mum as if deaf and dumb.

1. Is it UNTRUE that we have established the existence of PRINTED Qur'an as of the Time of the First and Third Khalifa after Mohammed?
2. Is it UNTRUE that Mohammed himself recommend FOUR of the best reciters of the Qur'an during his life time and only Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah was dead as of the time of the Third Khalif Uthman?
3. Is it NOT strange that none of the Four Recommend Reciters Qur'an was used for the authorised version of Uthman's Qur'an?


A. What are Islamic Clerics hiding from the Original and Printed Arabic Qur'an that they were abandoned for a Recitation (not writing of Hafs a man attested to be a liar)?

B. Where is the Qur'an of Mohammed?




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A. What are Islamic Clerics hiding from the Original and Printed Arabic Qur'an that they were abandoned for a Recitation (not writing of Hafs a man attested to be a liar)?

B. Where is the Qur'an of Mohammed?

honesttalk21:
During the Riddah wars many of the Sahabah who had memorized the Quran were killed, and Abu Bakr was afraid that the Quran would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahabah about compiling the Quran in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhari narrated in his Saheeh (4986)

Caliph Abu Bakr collected the Qur'an and wrote it in pamphlets and books in all its seven letters (the seven i.e. ways in which the Qur'an was revealed and which conform to the seven dialects of the Arabs at that time). The seven Ahrufs.

Uthman, the third caliph, recognized the potential for different dialects and variations in the Quranic recitations to create confusion.
To establish uniformity, he appointed a committee chaired by Zaid ibn Thabit to produce a standardized version of the Quran.

Uthman's recognition also followed from Hudhayfah's observations.
Ḥudhayfah was afraid of the differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ʿUthmān, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book [Qur’an] as Jews and the Christians did before.” Bukhari 4988.

Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the governor of Syria during Uthman's caliphate. Mu'awiyah played a crucial role in the distribution of standardized copies of the Quran. He ensured that accurate copies of the Quran were sent to major cities and regions under his rule, thereby ensuring the spread of the authentic Islamic scripture.

Note that in both Abu Bakr and Uthman's compillation of the Quran, Zaid ibn Thabit chaired the Quran writing commitees.

At the back of a Warsh Quran you will likely find"the riwaya of Imam Warsh from Nafi' al-Madini from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn al-Qa'qa' from 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas from Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Messenger of Allah. This shows the line of transmission. Similarly for the Hafs Quran you find the "riwaya of Hafs ibn Sulayman ibn al-Mughira al-Asadi al-Kufi of the qira'a of 'Asim ibn Abi'n-Nujud al-Kufi from Abu 'Abdu'r-Rahman 'Abdullah ibn Habib as-Sulami from 'Uthman ibn 'Affan and 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Prophet".

In both cases you see clear transmission lines leading back to the Prophet with Ubayy ibn Ka'b being the first link to the one pbuh through which the Quran was revealed to man.

In Turkey at the Topkapı Palace and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul, there are mushafs from Uthman and Ali's period. One of them was handwritten by Uthman, and the other two by Ali.

While the copy in Egypt was in the Mosque of Amr ibn al-Aas, it was presented to Ottoman Sultan Selim II and brought to Topkapı Palace after the conquest of Egypt.

Some claim that this is in fact the copy from Medina and that the last survivor of the Abbasid family took it with him while escaping to Egypt from the Mongol massacre. It is said that due to a blood-like stain on it, this is the mushaf that Uthman read while he was martyred.

Other mushafs belonging to the first period of Islam are displayed in Al-Hussein Mosque in Cairo, the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, the British Library in London, Hast Imam Library in Tashkent and other museums.

A newly opened museum in Mecca also features verses of the Quran written on bones and stones. The verses written on rocks and stones in the seventh century in Arabia have also survived to the present day.

Please how is what you've said here different from what i said before?

TenQ:
Many Muslims are not aware that there are up to 32 Arabic Qur'an of which the Hafs Qur'an and the Warsh Qur'an are the most popular. A vast majority of the Islamic world uses the Hafs Qur'an (including Muslims in Nigeria).

However, the point of emphasis today is not about the various Arabic Quran's in circulation (thanks to Hatun Tash who exposed this). Today, we want to ask just one basic simple Question.
"Where is the Quran of Mohammed?"

Facts:
1. The Oral and Partially written Qur'an:
The Qur'an was in was at least partially in written form before the death of Mohammed. A tame sheep was said to eat up a chapter during Mohammed's funeral
2. The first complete Qur'an :
Abu Bakr (the first Khalif) appointed a committee led by Zaid ibn Thabit, who was known for his expertise in writing and memorizing the Qur'an, to collect and compile all the scattered written fragments and the memorized portions of the Qur'an.
3. The second complete Quran:
Somehow the Qur'an of Abu Bakr was unavailable and people were reciting the Qur'an with variations, distortions and errors and these were put in written form. The third Khalifa Uthman thus appointed a committee led by Zaid ibn Thabit (the same person who led the compilation efforts during the time of Abu Bakr) to create an official written copy of the Qur'an. The committee's task was to produce multiple copies of the Qur'an. Every variant Qur'an was BURNT to remove the evidence.

4. At least SEVEN authorised version of the standardised Qur'an of Uthman was distributed to lands far and near to Mecca
Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad

Note:
1. You will agree with me that we have established the existence of PRINTED Qur'an as of the Time of the First and Third Khalifa after Mohammed
2. Mohammed himself recommend FOUR of the best reciters of the Qur'an during his life time and only Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah was dead as of the time of the Third Khalif Uthman : it is strange that non of their Qur'an was used for the authorised version of Uthman.
Sunan Ibn Majah, Hadith Number: 215
The Prophet once said, "Learn the Qur'an from four: from Abdullah ibn Masud, Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and Mu'adh ibn Jabal"



ENTER MODERN QUR'AN
Any reasonable person will expect that the modern Arabic Qur'an we use today would be from copies from either one of the Qur'an from Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad

Unfortunately, this is not. The version in popular use today is according to the RECITATION of Hafs (not even according to the written text of Hafs).

Introducing Hafs:
1. Hafs ibn Sulayman al-Kufi, the transmitter of the Qur'an was Born almost 150 years after the death of Mohammed. He never met ANY of the companions not knew any of the Khalifs of Islam.
2. Hafs and his father are known by Muslims as great liars who fabricate Hadiths. Even though he narrated hadiths, they were all deemed to be fabrications.
Ibn Hijr, Tahtheeb-Al-Tahtheeb, Volume 2, p. 245
“Ibn Adi’ said: most of his (Hafs’) hadiths, and those he narrated about, are not kept…”

Al-Albani, Irwaa-Al-Ghaleel, Volume 1, p. 260
“Abu Omar (said): this is Hafs Ibn Sulayman the Qari (Quran reader or narrator) from Kufa, and his hadiths are to be abandoned. And Uman Abu Hafs followed him, who is also (known as) Ibn Hafs A—Abdi, and he is like him in weakness, or weaker. Revised by Tabarani in A-Khabeer (1/49/3), and Qawl Al-Haythami (333/1) in his Isnad- and they are trustworthy men. But he (Hafs) was cavalier in the matter, so should not be looked at(meaning acknowledged).”


3. The introductory page or "page A" of the Arabic Qur'an just before the first chapter (Al-Fathia" include what is known by Muslims as Isnad (chains of narration) of the Qur'an. Any chain that leaves out the Qur'an of Abu Bakr or the Qur'an of Uthman is broken in transmission and cannot be trusted.


Questions:
1. If Recitations of the Qur'an could not be trusted during the lifetime of Khalif Uthman, why do you think that the Recitation of Hafs (who was born 150 years after the death of Mohammed) be trusted?
2. Where are the copies of the Qur'an sent to Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad so that we can compare it with the Hafs Qur'an.?
3. If the Isnad of the Qur'an is broken, how can the whole Qur'an not be Daif at best?
4. Why should anyone trust the Recitation of Hafs since he ans his father are known as fraudulent according to Muslim sources?




Note:
If you are interested in reading about the differences between the Hafs and Warsh Qur'ans you may read the writeup in the link below
https://answering-islam.org/Green/seven.htm

Attached is the Isnad of both the Warsh and Hafs Qur'an


Please let's make the answers short, direct and precise
Cc:
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My Question are still very VALID sir:
1. Mohammed recieved the Quran in seven Arabic Dialects (if we assume partial writing), where is the COPY of it?

2. Abu Bakr wrote the first COMPLETE Quran: where is the COPY of the Quran of Abubakr?

3. Uthman rewrote the second COMPLETE Quran and transmitted at least seven copies of them through Arabia, where is ANY of the COPY of the Quran of Uthman?

4. Why is the Hafs Quran from RECITATION (that could not be trusted to be accurate during the time of the Sahaba) rather than the several copies of Quran in PRINT : what happend to those Quran?

5. Why take Quran NOT from Abdullah ibn Masud, Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and Mu'adh ibn Jabal BUT from Zaid ibn Thabit while NONE of these four were part of the committee?

6. Why accept the narration (not the print) from a known Liar (Hafs ibn Sulayman al-Kufi)?

MightySparrow:
Is that your final answer?

Don't mind him!
He has no response except quote the falsified standard islamic narrative about the Quran.
Small questioning, the fraud is made apparent as a complete baseless Fabrication and Conjecture!

LOL!

Questions:
1. If Recitations of the Qur'an could not be trusted during the lifetime of Khalif Uthman, why do you think that the Recitation of Hafs (who was born 150 years after the death of Mohammed) be trusted?

2. Where are the copies of the Qur'an sent to Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad so that we can compare it with the Hafs Qur'an.?

3. If the Isnad of the Qur'an is broken, how can the whole Qur'an not be Daif at best?

4. Why should anyone trust the Recitation of Hafs since he ans his father are known as fraudulent according to Muslim sources?


How can Recitation be greater in status than the Written Quran?

MightySparrow:
Is Jeremiah 8:8 the reason for the loss of the Qurans in question?

Don't mind him:
I spent time with him walking him through Hebrew language and text to Understand Jer 8:8 unfortunately, he wasn't ready to even read. He just want to repeat the question as if he has found the bullet to the bible. He should refer to my thesis on Jer 8:8 if he cares.

honesttalk21:
.

gaskiyamagana:
Good work for the ignorant of Islam, carried out by Christian Center for Islamic Studies and made available in NairaLand land.

Will you agree with me that PRINTED COMPLETE Qur'an existed as of the Time of the First and Third Khalifa after Mohammed?

If they did?
Do you agree that All other Quran copies should be made from these copies of the Uthman Quran?
Where are their copies?

TenQ:
Don't mind him!
He has no response except quote the falsified standard islamic narrative about the Quran.
Small questioning, the fraud is made apparent as a complete baseless Fabrication and Conjecture!

LOL!

Questions:
1. If Recitations of the Qur'an could not be trusted during the lifetime of Khalif Uthman, why do you think that the Recitation of Hafs (who was born 150 years after the death of Mohammed) be trusted?

2. Where are the copies of the Qur'an sent to Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Basra, Damascus, Cairo and Baghdad so that we can compare it with the Hafs Qur'an.?

3. If the Isnad of the Qur'an is broken, how can the whole Qur'an not be Daif at best?

4. Why should anyone trust the Recitation of Hafs since he ans his father are known as fraudulent according to Muslim sources?


How can Recitation be greater in status than the Written Quran?

Islam is a joke by master comedians: Allah and Mohammed. Director of film: Jubril.

MightySparrow:
Islam is a joke by master comedians: Allah and Mohammed. Director of film: Jubril.

If Islam was merely a joke, at least we can all relax at the end of the days job with it,

BUT
Islam in addition is by the most successful 419 in the word today.
Islam a religion that tricks people to Hell fire!
Islam a religion of Lies from the father of Lies as Jesus said!


I honestly pity them who are sincerely deceived. Unfortunately, the world was designed that deceivers will operate till judgement day unhindered.

[quote author=TenQ post=124667148]Please how is what you've said here different from what i said before?

Are you saying what I wrote and what you wrote are the same or identical?

Do you say this despite differences in some words and writing style?

honesttalk21:
Please how is what you've said here different from what i said before?

Are you saying what I wrote and what you wrote are the same or identical?

Do you say this despite differences in some words and writing style?

1. How could there be differences in writing style if
Abubakar wrote a single Complete Qur'an?

2.How could there be differences I writing style if
Uthman wrote at least Seven IDENTICAL Complete Qur'ans?



I assume that people should copy DIRECTLY from the Printed Arabic Quran!?
Shouldn't they?

TenQ:
If Islam was merely a joke, at least we can all relax at the end of the days job with it,

BUT
Islam in addition is by the most successful 419 in the word today.
Islam a religion that tricks people to Hell fire!
Islam a religion of Lies from the father of Lies as Jesus said!


I honestly pity them who are sincerely deceived. Unfortunately, the world was designed that deceivers will operate till judgement day unhindered.

Many of them know the truth but don't have the gut to come out for fear.
Have read about a lance corporal being locked up in guard room for converting to Christianity now trending?


Lielam called Islam.

Muslims may want to tell us in the court of law which is weightier as a source of evidence
1. Oral Traditions or
2. Written Evidences

Especially when it can be proved that written evidence existed.

What is islam trying to hide?
SMH!

MightySparrow:
Many of them know the truth but don't have the gut to come out for fear.
Have read about a lance corporal being locked up in guard room for converting to Christianity now trending?


Lielam called Islam.

A religion that behaves like a Gang of criminals seizing Government institutions to achieve their objectives of stealing, killing and destruction.

Why must people be forced into serving Allah? Only Muslims can answer the question.

TenQ:
A religion that behaves like a Gang of criminals seizing Government institutions to achieve their objectives of stealing, killing and destruction.

Why must people be forced into serving Allah? Only Muslims can answer the question.

Why are our friends not responding? This is really a deadly blow.

MightySparrow:
Why are our friends not responding? This is really a deadly blow.

Their pride is deflated!

Muslims may want to tell us in the court of law which is weightier as a source of evidence
1. Oral Traditions or
2. Written Evidences

Especially when it can be proved that written evidence existed.



Unfortunately, the answer is so clear and undebatable. Thus, they feign deaf and dumb!

Is it True that Mohammed himself recommend FOUR of the best reciters of the Qur'an during his life time and only Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah was dead as of the time of the Third Khalif Uthman : it is strange that non of their Qur'an was used for the authorised version of Uthman
Sunan Ibn Majah, Hadith Number: 215
The Prophet once said, "Learn the Qur'an from four: from Abdullah ibn Masud, Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and Mu'adh ibn Jabal"


Can anyone explain why non of the recommended Quran reciters by Mohammed himself part of the Committee to write the Qur'an?



My good Friends on Nairaland:
LegalWolf, Vanessa7, AntiChristian, Empiree, Rash4ductluv, drlateef, Lukuluku69 , mhmsadyq ,Gaskiyamagana , compton11 , MrCodeSolo , iamrealdeji , honesttalk21 ,

honesttalk21:
During the Riddah wars many of the Sahabah who had memorized the Quran were killed, and Abu Bakr was afraid that the Quran would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahabah about compiling the Quran in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhari narrated in his Saheeh (4986)

Caliph Abu Bakr collected the Qur'an and wrote it in pamphlets and books in all its seven letters (the seven i.e. ways in which the Qur'an was revealed and which conform to the seven dialects of the Arabs at that time). The seven Ahrufs.

Uthman, the third caliph, recognized the potential for different dialects and variations in the Quranic recitations to create confusion.
To establish uniformity, he appointed a committee chaired by Zaid ibn Thabit to produce a standardized version of the Quran.

Uthman's recognition also followed from Hudhayfah's observations.
Ḥudhayfah was afraid of the differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ʿUthmān, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book [Qur’an] as Jews and the Christians did before.” Bukhari 4988.

Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the governor of Syria during Uthman's caliphate. Mu'awiyah played a crucial role in the distribution of standardized copies of the Quran. He ensured that accurate copies of the Quran were sent to major cities and regions under his rule, thereby ensuring the spread of the authentic Islamic scripture.

Note that in both Abu Bakr and Uthman's compillation of the Quran, Zaid ibn Thabit chaired the Quran writing commitees.

At the back of a Warsh Quran you will likely find"the riwaya of Imam Warsh from Nafi' al-Madini from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn al-Qa'qa' from 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas from Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Messenger of Allah. This shows the line of transmission. Similarly for the Hafs Quran you find the "riwaya of Hafs ibn Sulayman ibn al-Mughira al-Asadi al-Kufi of the qira'a of 'Asim ibn Abi'n-Nujud al-Kufi from Abu 'Abdu'r-Rahman 'Abdullah ibn Habib as-Sulami from 'Uthman ibn 'Affan and 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Prophet".

In both cases you see clear transmission lines leading back to the Prophet with Ubayy ibn Ka'b being the first link to the one pbuh through which the Quran was revealed to man.

In Turkey at the Topkapı Palace and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul, there are mushafs from Uthman and Ali's period. One of them was handwritten by Uthman, and the other two by Ali.

While the copy in Egypt was in the Mosque of Amr ibn al-Aas, it was presented to Ottoman Sultan Selim II and brought to Topkapı Palace after the conquest of Egypt.

Some claim that this is in fact the copy from Medina and that the last survivor of the Abbasid family took it with him while escaping to Egypt from the Mongol massacre. It is said that due to a blood-like stain on it, this is the mushaf that Uthman read while he was martyred.

Other mushafs belonging to the first period of Islam are displayed in Al-Hussein Mosque in Cairo, the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, the British Library in London, Hast Imam Library in Tashkent and other museums.

A newly opened museum in Mecca also features verses of the Quran written on bones and stones. The verses written on rocks and stones in the seventh century in Arabia have also survived to the present day.

Where is the Qur'an of Abu Bakr in the chain?

Where is the Qur'an of Uthman in the chain?

Why use Narrations which has been proven to be full of errors (by Uthman) instead of the corrected standardised PRINTED Qur'an?

I never expected Muslims to be able to answer these question because its not their fault that their STANDARD Islamic narrative crumbled in the face of Questions.

I hope this will motivate Muslims to ask Questions and not take for granted the lies they've been fed all their lives.

It is not normal that a single Religion has these many unanswerable questions.

TenQ:
Please how is what you've said here different from what i said before?




My Question are still very VALID sir:
1. Mohammed recieved the Quran in seven Arabic Dialects (if we assume partial writing), where is the COPY of it?

2. Abu Bakr wrote the first COMPLETE Quran: where is the COPY of the Quran of Abubakr?

3. Uthman rewrote the second COMPLETE Quran and transmitted at least seven copies of them through Arabia, where is ANY of the COPY of the Quran of Uthman?

4. Why is the Hafs Quran from RECITATION (that could not be trusted to be accurate during the time of the Sahaba) rather than the several copies of Quran in PRINT : what happend to those Quran?

5. Why take Quran NOT from Abdullah ibn Masud, Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and Mu'adh ibn Jabal BUT from Zaid ibn Thabit while NONE of these four were part of the committee?

6. Why accept the narration (not the print) from a known Liar (Hafs ibn Sulayman al-Kufi)?

There are so many reasons I don't like to reply you but the biggest reason is your lack of knowledge about what you are writing.

You just go and copy a message from somewhere and post it here like your master Izang and others.

rolams:
There are so many reasons I don't like to reply you but the biggest reason is your lack of knowledge about what you are writing.

You just go and copy a message from somewhere and post it here like your master Izang and others.

1. I almost converted to Islam years ago in the University: I understand perfectly your religion.
2. If you think I am copying from one website or another, you can easily find it out can't you? Sorry, I don't do copy-paste!
3. Can you say just one thing I said that is UNTRUE about Islam?


My Question are:
1. Is it untrue that Mohammed recieved the Quran in seven Arabic Dialects (if we assume partial writing)?
Where is the COPY of it?

2. Is it UNTRUE that Abu Bakr wrote the first COMPLETE Qur'an?
Where is the COPY of the Quran of Abubakr?

3. Is it UNTRUE that Uthman rewrote the second COMPLETE Quran and transmitted at least seven copies of them through Arabia?
Where is ANY of the COPY of the Quran of Uthman?

4. Is it UNTRUE that the Hafs Quran was from his RECITATION rather than the several copies of Quran in Print?
What happend to the copies of Quran made from Abu Bakr's Qur'an and Uthman's Qur'an ?

5. Is it untrue that Mohammed asked you Muslims to take the Qur'an from four people?
Why take Quran NOT from Abdullah ibn Masud, Salim Mawla Abi Hudhayfah, Ubayy ibn Ka'b, and Mu'adh ibn Jabal BUT from Zaid ibn Thabit why is it that NONE of these four were part of the committee?

6. Is it UNTRUE that Hafs is known by you Muslims as untrustworthy and a liar: the one who fabricate Hadiths?
Why accept the narration (not the print) from a known Liar (Hafs ibn Sulayman al-Kufi)?


Just tell me that each of the basis for my questions are UNTRUE and I will surrender to you in shame and humiliation!

honesttalk21:
During the Riddah wars many of the Sahabah who had memorized the Quran were killed, and Abu Bakr was afraid that the Quran would be lost. So he consulted the senior Sahabah about compiling the Quran in a single book so that it would remain preserved and would not be lost. He entrusted this mission to the chief of memorizers Zayd ibn Thabit (may Allah be pleased with him). Al-Bukhari narrated in his Saheeh (4986)

Caliph Abu Bakr collected the Qur'an and wrote it in pamphlets and books in all its seven letters (the seven i.e. ways in which the Qur'an was revealed and which conform to the seven dialects of the Arabs at that time). The seven Ahrufs.

Uthman, the third caliph, recognized the potential for different dialects and variations in the Quranic recitations to create confusion.
To establish uniformity, he appointed a committee chaired by Zaid ibn Thabit to produce a standardized version of the Quran.

Uthman's recognition also followed from Hudhayfah's observations.
Ḥudhayfah was afraid of the differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to ʿUthmān, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book [Qur’an] as Jews and the Christians did before.” Bukhari 4988.

Mu’awiyah ibn Abi Sufyan, who was the governor of Syria during Uthman's caliphate. Mu'awiyah played a crucial role in the distribution of standardized copies of the Quran. He ensured that accurate copies of the Quran were sent to major cities and regions under his rule, thereby ensuring the spread of the authentic Islamic scripture.

Note that in both Abu Bakr and Uthman's compillation of the Quran, Zaid ibn Thabit chaired the Quran writing commitees.

At the back of a Warsh Quran you will likely find"the riwaya of Imam Warsh from Nafi' al-Madini from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn al-Qa'qa' from 'Abdullah ibn 'Abbas from Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Messenger of Allah. This shows the line of transmission. Similarly for the Hafs Quran you find the "riwaya of Hafs ibn Sulayman ibn al-Mughira al-Asadi al-Kufi of the qira'a of 'Asim ibn Abi'n-Nujud al-Kufi from Abu 'Abdu'r-Rahman 'Abdullah ibn Habib as-Sulami from 'Uthman ibn 'Affan and 'Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b from the Prophet".

In both cases you see clear transmission lines leading back to the Prophet with Ubayy ibn Ka'b being the first link to the one pbuh through which the Quran was revealed to man.

In Turkey at the Topkapı Palace and the Museum of Turkish-Islamic Arts in Istanbul, there are mushafs from Uthman and Ali's period. One of them was handwritten by Uthman, and the other two by Ali.

While the copy in Egypt was in the Mosque of Amr ibn al-Aas, it was presented to Ottoman Sultan Selim II and brought to Topkapı Palace after the conquest of Egypt.

Some claim that this is in fact the copy from Medina and that the last survivor of the Abbasid family took it with him while escaping to Egypt from the Mongol massacre. It is said that due to a blood-like stain on it, this is the mushaf that Uthman read while he was martyred.

Other mushafs belonging to the first period of Islam are displayed in Al-Hussein Mosque in Cairo, the Bibliotheque Nationale in Paris, the British Library in London, Hast Imam Library in Tashkent and other museums.

A newly opened museum in Mecca also features verses of the Quran written on bones and stones. The verses written on rocks and stones in the seventh century in Arabia have also survived to the present day.

Which one is more reliable Qur'an?
1. The Printed Quran
2. The Recited Qur'an?

Which of the following is prone to errors?
1. The Printed Quran
2. The Recited Qur'an?

Them were are the printed copies of Abu Bakr's Qur'an or Uthman's Qur'an?

Why would someone refuse to use the codex officially corrected for distribution and circulation for a Recitation that came 150 years plus after the death of Mohammed?

There seem to be no explanation for this except if a major revision was to be made in the original Qur'an