Junny04:
This is a response to the thread that was opened https://www.nairaland.com/7783690/baptism-necessary-salvation . I decided to create a new topic as my response is kind of lengthy. I will love us to take our time to read this.
John 14: 6 says “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me”. It goes on in verse 7 “if you really know me, you will know my father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him”.
Salvation is about getting saved. How do we get saved? Kindly note that getting saved does not mean believing in God. That is not salvation. James 2:19 says “You believe that there is no God. Good. Even the demons believe and tremble” Thus believing in God does not mean salvation as the demons also believe in God and tremble.
Salvation is simply to believe in Jesus Christ because He is the Way, The Truth and the Life. No one comes to the father except through Him. Acts 4:12 states that “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to man by which we must be saved”
So how does a man get saved? Romans 10:8 says “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation” verse 9 states further that “ If thou shall confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shall be saved”. Verse 10 states that “For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation”
As long as you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, believe it in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. When Paul and Silas were in jail and prayed in Acts 16 and they were set free. The jailer was about to kill himself thinking they had escaped. Paul told him not to cause they were still there and he asked them in Acts 16:29 “What must I do to be saved” and they responded in verse 30 that “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved and thy House”
In correlation to the issue of baptism by water, they didn’t ask the jailor to first get baptized before he can be saved. Even the thief on the cross was not asked by Jesus to get baptized before he can be saved. In fact, Jesus never told any of his disciples to baptize people by water unto salvation. In 1st Corinthians 13:17, Paul said “For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect”
Baptism by water is just to fulfill righteousness. It is not a prerequisite to be saved.

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid much of the claims made here is of religious gibberish and not of Truth.

Yes, baptism by water is required in order to receive the first salvation but not in the way you suggest and the how of it instead as stated in the Gospels by Jesus Christ.

Junny04:
■ The bible is clear..There is no provision for baptism for you to be saved. As long as you believe in Jesus thy heart God raised Jesus from death and you confess it with your mouth, you are saved.
That's all. Baptism by water is not required. Jesus never even initiated baptism by water, it was John. Jesus was more concerned about Baptism of the holy ghost.
■ I quoted more than 3 scriptures to show what you have to do to be saved. It is a direct statement. No need to be confused or try to interpret in any other way. Religious gibberish you say? After I backed my writing with various scriptures? It is well.

Kobojunkie:
1. So, what you are saying is that when Jesus Christ said, "Everyone must be born-again," that was a lie?

And when Jesus Christ reiterated, "Except a man be born of water and born of Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God," you also believe that was also a lie?

2. Na una way be that...you religious folks... quoting random verses without cohesion or minding the fallacies that follow the conclusions you reach afterward.

Junny04:
■ By your analogy, the thief that died on the cross went to hell since he didn't get baptized before dying..
Does that make sense to you?
■ Did Jesus himself baptize anyone?
■ ...neither did Jesus ask any disciple of his to make baptism a requirement for salvation.
The scriptures are very clear..

Kobojunkie:
1. Heaven and Hell both exist inside of the Kingdom of God which can be accessed either through the Narrow gate or the Broad Gates - Matthew 7 vs 13 - 14 only by those who are born-again. So how could the thief on the cross who we are not told was ever born-again his found himself in Hell?

Also, according to the Gospels, Jesus Christ's promise to the their was paradise on that same day, not the Kingdom of God. And we know that Jesus was in the grave and the two days after. So how could paradise connect to the Kingdom of God?

2. There is no record of Jesus Christ baptizing anyone. Even He was baptized by John. However, Jesus Christ preached the same message of Repentance onto baptism that John the Baptist did and commanded everyone of His followers to baptize those who believe in Him.

3. Jesus Christ pretty much made Baptism a requirement when He said that except a man be born of water AND born of spirit, He cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

So, again, are you saying is that when Jesus Christ said, "Everyone must be born-again," that was a lie?

And when Jesus Christ reiterated, "Except a man be born of water and born of Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God," you also believe that was also a lie?

Junny04:
■ Hell exists in the kingdom of God? Wonderful. If the kingdom of God is not paradise. Where then is paradise? Hell?
■ The death and ascension of Jesus Christ has washed off our sins already.
■ What are you baptizing for again? How does being born of water equate to baptism by water?
■ I state again. Being born again doesn't mean you are baptized by water. That is very shallow. Being born again means you accept Jesus as your lord and savior and you believe that he died for your sins.. why would you think that baptism signifies being born again? I quoted more than 3 scriptures for you, yet you are referring to being born of water.
■ Baptism by water is for repentance, to wash away your sins. Jesus already did that for you when he died and rose on the 3rd day.. That is the ultimate cleansing. There is no need for baptism again.
■ As long as you accept that Jesus died and rose for you, you are cleansed and saved.You do not need to be baptized again.
■ In the old testament, people cleansed themselves with the blood of animals. But the lamb of God (Jesus) has already offered his blood for us, so that we might not need blood of animals or baptism by water to be cleansed and saved. This is very straightforward even to the blind

21 From that time Jesus began telling his followers that he must go to Jerusalem. He explained that the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and the teachers of the law would make him suffer many things. And he told his followers that he must be killed. Then, on the third day, he would be raised from death.- Matthew 16 vs 21

32 Jesus and those with him were on their way to Jerusalem. He was at the front of the group. His followers were wondering what was happening, and the people who followed behind them were feeling afraid. Jesus gathered the twelve apostles again and talked with them alone. He told them what would happen in Jerusalem.
33 He said, “We are going to Jerusalem. The Son of Man will be handed over to the leading priests and teachers of the law. They will say that he must die and will hand him over to the foreigners,
34 who will laugh at him and spit on him. They will beat him with whips and kill him. But on the third day after his death, he will rise to life again.”. - Mark 10 vs 32 - 34

22 Then Jesus said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things. He will be rejected by the older Jewish leaders, the leading priests, and teachers of the law. And he will be killed. But after three days he will be raised from death.” - Luke 9 vs 22

31 So Jesus said to the Jews who believed in him, “If you continue to accept and obey my teaching, you are really my followers.
32 You will know the truth and the truth will make you free.”
33 They answered, “We are Abraham’s descendants. And we have never been slaves. So why do you say that we will be free?”
34 Jesus said, “The truth is, everyone who sins is a slave—a slave to sin.
35 A slave does not stay with a family forever. But a son belongs to the family forever.
36 So if the Son makes you free, you are really free. - John 8 vs 31 - 36

Kobojunkie:
1. Paradise is where Jesus Christ was that same day, right? ......


2. Did Jesus Christ Himself tell you that His death and ascension were meant for the washing away of your sins? I doubt that because what Jesus Christ said regarding how to become free from slavery to sin does not even come close to your claim.

I can't remember Jesus telling the thief that paradise was that same day. I asked you a question and you didn't answer me..
Are you saying paradise is not the kingdom of heaven. Is paradise hell then?

Jesus himself never baptized anyone. Anytime he or his disciples were asked about salvation, they all gave the same response about believing in thy heart that Jesus died and rose for us and confessing same with the thy mouth. Even Paul claimed that he was glad that he didn't baptize anyone.

I am tired of saying the same thing all over again. You believe baptism of water is a requisite for salvation right? All well and good then.
I have made my submission. You are not compelled to align with it.
Peace

As for baptism, Jesus Christ preached the very same repentance and marking by water that John the Baptist did. The repentance Jesus Christ taught to the people is the same repentance that John the Baptist Himself taught and it isn't a repentance from sin at all. Rather it is a change from following the Old way of Moses to following the New way and Covenant in the Kingdom of God - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 & Luke 3 vs 1 - 14 — conclusion of following of the Old Law and fountain of Living water in order to begin the following of the New Law and fountain of Living Waters. It is for this reason it is referred to by Jesus Christ as being born of water.

3. Are you somehow insinuating that all Jesus Christ said regarding what it means to be born-again in John 3 vs 1 - 21, a process that is to be fulfilled right when one decides to be saved from the condemnation of sin and hence gain access into the Kingdom of God is a lie?

4. Who told you that the Baptism of Water is for washing away sins? Where did you get that idea from since Jesus Christ never said such a thing?

5. Again, yet more things that Jesus Christ never said in His entire Gospels so where do you get these ideas that are obviously foreign to Jesus Christ from and why?

6. Jesus Christ is instead described as the Passover Lamb of God, not the sin/fellowship/guilt offering lamb and so there is no automatic washing or purging away of your sins in Jesus Christ. Read Exodus 12 to see that the Passover Lamb does not absolve sins. He too made this clear when He gave you some of the following commands and teachings which you are meant to abide by
▢ Be ye holy even as your father in Heaven is Holy meaning you are meant to in fact strictly adhere to each and every one of His teachings in other to become sinless — free of your sins
▢ Continue to accept and obey His teachings and commandments in other to remain His follower and it is by doing so that you know the Truth and are then set free from slavery to sin by the Truth of God.
If your sins are absolved at the gate into the Kingdom of God and you become Holy after that then why would Jesus Christ have taught you to become holy or even urged you to seek freedom from slavery to sin in His Gospel?

Kobojunkie:
1. Paradise is where Jesus Christ was that same day, right? ......


2. Did Jesus Christ Himself tell you that His death and ascension were meant for the washing away of your sins? I doubt that because what Jesus Christ said regarding how to become free from slavery to sin does not even come close to your claim.

As for baptism, Jesus Christ preached the very same repentance and marking by water that John the Baptist did. The repentance Jesus Christ taught to the people is the same repentance that John the Baptist Himself taught and it isn't a repentance from sin at all. Rather it is a change from following the Old way of Moses to following the New way and Covenant in the Kingdom of God - Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 & Luke 3 vs 1 - 14 — conclusion of following of the Old Law and fountain of Living water in order to begin the following of the New Law and fountain of Living Waters. It is for this reason it is referred to by Jesus Christ as being born of water.

3. Are you somehow insinuating that all Jesus Christ said regarding what it means to be born-again in John 3 vs 1 - 21, a process that is to be fulfilled right when one decides to be saved from the condemnation of sin and hence gain access into the Kingdom of God is a lie?

4. Who told you that the Baptism of Water is for washing away sins? Where did you get that idea from since Jesus Christ never said such a thing?

5. Again, yet more things that Jesus Christ never said in His entire Gospels so where do you get these ideas that are obviously foreign to Jesus Christ from and why?

6. Jesus Christ is instead described as the Passover Lamb of God, not the sin/fellowship/guilt offering lamb and so there is no automatic washing or purging away of your sins in Jesus Christ. Read Exodus 12 to see that the Passover Lamb does not absolve sins. He too made this clear when He gave you some of the following commands and teachings which you are meant to abide by
▢ Be ye holy even as your father in Heaven is Holy meaning you are meant to in fact strictly adhere to each and every one of His teachings in other to become sinless — free of your sins
▢ Continue to accept and obey His teachings and commandments in other to remain His follower and it is by doing so that you know the Truth and are then set free from slavery to sin by the Truth of God.
If your sins are absolved at the gate into the Kingdom of God and you become Holy after that then why would Jesus Christ have taught you to become holy or even urged you to seek freedom from slavery to sin in His Gospel?

Junny04:
■ I can't remember anywhere it was written that paradise was that same day. Jesus himself said he shall be in paradise. Are you gonna argue on that? I asked a question earlier that if paradise is not the kingdom of God, is it then the Kingdom of hell?
■ Jesus and his disciples on different occasions gave the same response as to salvation that as long as you believe in the death and ascension of Jesus and the confession of same, you are saved.
■Even Paul stated that thank God he didn't not baptize anyone apart from gaius and another. I spoke about Paul and Silas in jail and what they told the jailor. They said same thing too.
■I can't keep saying the same thing all over again. If you believe baptism by water is a requirement for salvation, all well and good.
I have made my submission and you are not compelled to align with it.
Peace

39 One of the criminals hanging there began to shout insults at Jesus: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Then save yourself, and save us too!”
40 But the other criminal stopped him. He said, “You should fear God. All of us will die soon.
41 You and I are guilty. We deserve to die because we did wrong. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you begin ruling as king!”
43 Then Jesus said to him, “I promise you, today you will be with me in paradise.” - Luke 23 vs 39 - 43

Kobojunkie:
1. Read the passage for yourself!


2. But where is it said that to be saved in that case means to have all your sins washed away as you yourself claimed?

3. If we assume that Paul did not baptize people, what does that information change or do to any of what Jesus Christ said though? Jesus Christ made clear that there are no exceptions as far as being born of water and born of Spirit — born again, and according to Him, being born again is the only way to obtain Salvation from the condemnation of sin aka Death. So where do your ideas come from?

4. Please unless you are able to clearly back up your claims, may I suggest you stop going around spewing them then?

Junny04:
■ Are you reading what you are writing at all?
■ I never made mention of washing of sins to be saved. I said to be saved, you have to believe in Jesus'death and ascension, which is clearly stated in the scriptures.

Junny04:
The death and ascension of Jesus Christ have washed off our sins already. What are you baptizing for again?

Junny04:
■ Being born of water, what makes you think that is baptism by water
■ ..did Jesus expressly state baptism by water is a requirement to be saved? If you can't show me anywhere in the bible it was written so, please go and sleep.This is becoming irritating...I have quoted different scriptures backing my assertion. Show me yours . Show me where it is written that without baptism by water, you will not be saved.

18 So he came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth is given to me.
19 So go and make followers of all people in the world. Baptize them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.
20 Teach them to obey everything that I have told you to do. You can be sure that I will be with you always. I will continue with you until the end of time.” - Matthew 28 vs 18 - 20

15 He said to them, “Go everywhere in the world. Tell the Good News to everyone.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved. But those who do not believe will be judged guilty.
17 And the people who believe will be able to do these things as proof: They will use my name to force demons out of people. They will speak in languages they never learned. - Mark 16 vs 15 - 17

38 Jesus said, “You don’t understand what you are asking. Can you drink from the cup[a] that I must drink from? Can you be baptized with the same baptism that I must go through?”
39 The sons answered, “Yes, we can!” Jesus said to the sons, “It is true that you will drink from the cup that I drink from. And you will be baptized with the same baptism that I must go through.
40 But it is not for me to say who will sit at my right or my left. God has prepared those places for the ones he chooses.” - Matthew 20 vs 38 - 40

Kobojunkie:
1. To be born of water means to submit oneself to the Baptism of Repentance which was first preached by John the Baptist and was reaffirmed by Jesus Christ. According to John the Baptist, the Baptism of Repentance mandates a complete abandonment of the following of the old Law of Moses and nation — and the old man who lived under the stipulations of the old Law — embracing fully, in its place, life and living under God’s new Law and Nation of Priests — becoming a new man whose life is lived under the stipulations of the new Law.

Just as the old Law was the fountain of living waters for those who lived under it, so also the new Law becomes the new fountain of living waters which those who are born of it are to quench their thirsts from hence born of water. What the baptism of repentance in Matthew 3 vs 7 - 11 & Luke 3 vs 2 - 18 & Mark 1 vs 1 - 8 means is one is no longer to venture back to the old Law in search of rules to live by. This baptism is marked by the washing of a person with water to mark the end of the old and the beginning of the new. And it is not how it is done that is of importance but rather the reasoning behind the ritual that matters.

2. Yes, Jesus Christ did say that....
Recall, He also said that His followers will be baptized with the same baptism that He too was baptized.