₦airaland Forum

Ohyoudidnt:
You use the term abrogate?
In what sense? Which verse abrogates? What is the context of application?

You want to look at the verse of Allah as applicable only during the time of Mohammed and no more applicable now because the situations are different.

Ohyoudidnt:
Did Madudi translate Jizya as humiliating tax or you?

Again you use the term humiliating tax. Indeed a wrong doer may feel some humiliation on being purnished however who is being purnished here?

Al-Maududi says we Christians and Jews are guilty of Shirk and thus states that Jihad should be waged against us . Did you not read this from his tafsir?

Secondly Did Alkah not say that we pay the Jizya UNTIL we feel subdued and humiliated ?

Ohyoudidnt:
Quote the verses directly as translated not paraphrased and name the translator. Your paraphrase reeks of your characteristic manipulation.

It was from one of your Islamic sites sir.

https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=9&verse=25&to=29

Ohyoudidnt:
Is the humiliation a result of having their wrong doings curtailed? You seem to adopt the narcissist position of victim here.

While some Christians may argue for victimhood based on their perceived marginalization or discrimination throughout history, it is important to consider the historical context and acknowledge that the Tabuk affair was an act of aggression directed towards the Islamic community. Therefore, claiming victim status based on this event is unwarranted as it fails to recognize the broader historical realities.

The Tabuk affair was a direct military confrontation initiated by a Christian army against the Muslim community during a time when religious tensions were high. The conflict was not one-sided, with both Muslims and Christians engaging in hostile actions. However, it is crucial to acknowledge the historical context surrounding the Tabuk affair. Christianity had been established as a dominant and politically influential religion in various regions, whereas Islam was emerging as a newly established faith. Consequently, the Christian invasion of the Islamic holy city served as a threat to the religious autonomy and security of the Muslim community.

1. When Mohammed fled from Mecca to the Christian king Najashi of Abyssinia for protection they were not of wrong doing were they?
2. Why was it proper to take refuge with wrong doers in Abyssinia while you were weak only to seek their Humiliation and destruction when you became strong?
3. You may accuse the Jews of being hostile to the Muslims during the time of Mohammed BUT what examples do you have of Christian hostility?



Note:
1. The Tabuk confrontation, also known as the Expedition of Tabuk, took place in 630 AD.
2. It was a military expedition led by the Islamic prophet Muhammad against the Byzantine Empire's northern Arabian territories.
3. The confrontation aimed to deter perceived potential Byzantine attacks on the nascent Muslim community in Medina.
4. Muhammad mobilized a large number of followers for this expedition, which was notable for its challenging conditions, including harsh weather and scarcity of resources.
4. The Byzantine forces, however, did not engage in battle, and the Muslims returned to Medina without conflict.

Please learn your history. You Muslims were the aggressor here not the Byzantines.

If you think the Byzantines attacked Muslims in Medina I challenge you bring forth your evidence

TenQ:
We can only go by how Muslims of old interpreted the verse.

could it be that Muslims of old who could possibly were never educated enough, had limited literacy capacity to truly interprete the verse rightly, and their inability to interprete it rightly is a carry over to modern day Islamic teachings due to persistent dogmatism?

1. The Religion of truth as far as Muslims are concerned is Islam
2. The Primary enemy to be fought are Idolaters (these are to be killed except they convert to Islam)
3. The Christians and Jews are taken as Idolaters BUT the only difference is that IF they chose not to convert to Islam, they are to be levied Jiyza to a point of Humiliation.


They are actually Commanded to fight ALL non muslims. The difference is that of options given to us Christians and Jews with options given to others

ok

paxonel:
could it be that Muslims of old who could possibly were never educated enough, had limited literacy capacity to truly interprete the verse rightly, and their inability to interprete it rightly is a carry over to modern day Islamic teachings due to persistent dogmatism?
ok

The Muslims of old were the ones who studied the Qur'an almost directly under Mohammed such as Ibn Abbas the cousin of Mohammed and most of those acclaimed Islamic scholars who wrote the commentaries to the Qur'an such as Ibn Kathir, Al-Maududi, etc

In Islam is is not permitted for any Muslim to have a personal interpretation of the Qur'an other than what the scholars of Islam has taught and propagated in their books

The cunning fox! When you say paraphrased in your write up is it yours or you put this claim on soneone else who didn't state so. Furthermore even if the words humiliation and subdued occur after the phrase pay the tribute does this translate to humiliation tax. Can you state facts as is and not impose your own words/meaning into it without distinguishing?
Isn't this the way the true word of God gets corrupted?

Now you look at the Tabuk expedition in isolation and ignore two other battles in 629 and early 630. You limit yourself to winning the battle and loose the war?

The Battle of Mu’tah, fought in 629 AD, was triggered by the assassination of a Muslim emissary. The Byzantines were reoccupying territory following the peace accord between Emperor Heraclius and the Sasanid general Shahrbaraz in July 629. This led to an attack against the Roman Empire, the Ghassanids, and the allies of Banu Jafna.

Is it a lie that throughout history, the Byzantine Empire engaged in numerous conflicts and wars, only to later disregard the peace treaties it had agreed upon?

You make cheeky claim to Muhammad pbuh in Ethiopia, was he personally there or a delegation sent? Did King Najash not hear the charges of the pagans and listen to Jafar with respect to what 'new religion' they practiced?
Did he state: Your Prophet is welcome. I admit that he is the Apostle about whom Jesus had given good news. Live wherever you like in my country.”?
Do you deny according a divine status to Jesus along with the almighty or will you rather look at why the Thalmud and Torah feel he didn't fulfil the prophecy of a messiah? Not saying it is right to accord divinity to the messiah please.

Is Al-Madudi wrong on his labelling of Christians and Jews as being guilty of Shirk?

Allah not Alkah statement on the payment of Jizyah is very much in order perhaps your dislike of paying the Jizyah will allow you to truthfully reason.

Was the King unjust? Being Just is closest to being God fearing furthermore the statement attributed to him above I trust you will counter.

Did Muhammad invite Heraclius to Islam? Did the members of the Byzantine army subscribe to any faith?

TenQ:
You want to look at the verse of Allah as applicable only during the time of Mohammed and no more applicable now because the situations are different.



Al-Maududi says we Christians and Jews are guilty of Shirk and thus states that Jihad should be waged against us . Did you not read this from his tafsir?

Secondly Did Alkah not say that we pay the Jizya UNTIL we feel subdued and humiliated ?



It was from one of your Islamic sites sir.

https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=9&verse=25&to=29



1. When Mohammed fled from Mecca to the Christian king Najashi of Abyssinia for protection they were not of wrong doing were they?
2. Why was it proper to take refuge with wrong doers in Abyssinia while you were weak only to seek their Humiliation and destruction when you became strong?
3. You may accuse the Jews of being hostile to the Muslims during the time of Mohammed BUT what examples do you have of Christian hostility?



Note:
1. The Tabuk confrontation, also known as the Expedition of Tabuk, took place in 630 AD.
2. It was a military expedition led by the Islamic prophet Muhammad against the Byzantine Empire's northern Arabian territories.
3. The confrontation aimed to deter perceived potential Byzantine attacks on the nascent Muslim community in Medina.
4. Muhammad mobilized a large number of followers for this expedition, which was notable for its challenging conditions, including harsh weather and scarcity of resources.
4. The Byzantine forces, however, did not engage in battle, and the Muslims returned to Medina without conflict.

Please learn your history. You Muslims were the aggressor here not the Byzantines.

If you think the Byzantines attacked Muslims in Medina I challenge you bring forth your evidence

Citizens of the Byzantine Empire strongly identified as Christians, just as they identified as Romans. Emperors, seeking to unite their realm under one faith, recognized Christianity as the state religion and endowed the church with political and legal power. [/[b]b]Under some emperors, pagans were ordered to attend church and be baptized, and Jews and Samaritans were barred from receiving dowries or inheritances unless they converted.

The Byzantine army played a crucial role in spreading Christianity in enmity to Islam during the ancient times. As the Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire was one of the major powers in the Mediterranean region, sharing borders with various Islamic civilizations. The Byzantine army was not only responsible for the defense of the empire but also for actively promoting Christianity as a way to resist the spread of Islam.

One way in which the Byzantine army spread Christianity was through military conquests and campaigns. [/b]Numerous battles were fought between the Byzantine army and various Islamic forces, such as the Arab Caliphates. These military campaigns were often driven by the belief that a Christian victory would secure the dominance of Byzantine Christianity and halt the advance of Islam. The Byzantine army not only fought to protect their territories but also aimed to regain lost territories and spread Christianity into regions that had fallen under Islamic rule.

TenQ:
You want to look at the verse of Allah as applicable only during the time of Mohammed and no more applicable now because the situations are different.



Al-Maududi says we Christians and Jews are [b]guilty of Shirk and thus states that Jihad should be waged against us . Did you not read this from his tafsir?

Secondly Did Alkah not say that we pay the Jizya UNTIL we feel subdued and humiliated ?



It was from one of your Islamic sites sir.

https://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=9&verse=25&to=29



1. When Mohammed fled from Mecca to the Christian king Najashi of Abyssinia for protection they were not of wrong doing were they?
2. Why was it proper to take refuge with wrong doers in Abyssinia while you were weak only to seek their Humiliation and destruction when you became strong?
3. You may accuse the Jews of being hostile to the Muslims during the time of Mohammed BUT what examples do you have of Christian hostility?



Note:
1. The Tabuk confrontation, also known as the Expedition of Tabuk, took place in 630 AD.
2. It was a military expedition led by the Islamic prophet Muhammad against the Byzantine Empire's northern Arabian territories.
3. The confrontation aimed to deter perceived potential Byzantine attacks on the nascent Muslim community in Medina.
4. Muhammad mobilized a large number of followers for this expedition, which was notable for its challenging conditions, including harsh weather and scarcity of resources.
4. The Byzantine forces, however, did not engage in battle, and the Muslims returned to Medina without conflict.

Please learn your history. You Muslims were the aggressor here not the Byzantines.

If you think the Byzantines attacked Muslims in Medina I challenge you bring forth your evidence

Ohyoudidnt:
Citizens of the Byzantine Empire strongly identified as Christians, just as they identified as Romans. Emperors, seeking to unite their realm under one faith, recognized Christianity as the state religion and endowed the church with political and legal power. [/[b]b]Under some emperors, pagans were ordered to attend church and be baptized, and Jews and Samaritans were barred from receiving dowries or inheritances unless they converted.

The Byzantine army played a crucial role in spreading Christianity in enmity to Islam during the ancient times. As the Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire was one of the major powers in the Mediterranean region, sharing borders with various Islamic civilizations. The Byzantine army was not only responsible for the defense of the empire but also for actively promoting Christianity as a way to resist the spread of Islam.

[b]One way in which the Byzantine army spread Christianity was through military conquests and campaigns. [/b]Numerous battles were fought between the Byzantine army and various Islamic forces, such as the Arab Caliphates. These military campaigns were often driven by the belief that a Christian victory would secure the dominance of Byzantine Christianity and halt the advance of Islam. The Byzantine army not only fought to protect their territories but also aimed to regain lost territories and spread Christianity into regions that had fallen under Islamic rule.

See how you twist history.

Islam came over 600 years AFTER Christianity had expanded that even Waraqa who lived amongst the Arabs was a Christian. However, it is this same Christians who needed to expand by conquest!?


The two wars of Mohammed to the Byzantines was organised and led by the Muslims AGAINST the Byzantines or was it the Byzantines that led war expeditions against the Muslims?

Christians don't need to conquer to spread the Love of Christ as it is NOT part of our Doctrine nor is it found ANYWHERE in the Bible .


Why is it that Allah and his Mohammed prefer to collect money from us rather than convert us to Islam?

If Jesus was a Muslim, were His disciples also Muslims?

False claim! I didn't write this:
The expansion of Byzantine Christianity was intimately connected with the political ambitions of the Byzantine emperors, eager always to spread their influence throughout the Balkan and Russian lands, to Syria, the Holy Land, Egypt, and even the coasts of Italy.
As Constantinople grew in power, other independent ecclesiastical centers, such as Antioch and Alexandria, diminished. In time, especially through heresies and the ravages of the Arab conquests, Alexandria and Antioch were reduced to nothing, and Constantinople stood indisputably as the supreme head of all the Orthodox Churches. This paved the way for one liturgical rite and one language (Greek) within the vast confines of the Byzantine Empire and left the non-Byzantine liturgical rites, such as the Antiochene (Syrian) and Alexandrian (Coptic), to develop only among the Oriental Orthodox Christians who modified the content and substituted their own national languages.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/byzantine-christianity



In 330 A.D., the first Christian ruler of the Roman empire, Constantine the Great, transferred the ancient imperial capital from Rome to the city of Byzantion located on the easternmost territory of the European continent, at a major intersection of east-west trade. The emperor renamed this ancient port city Constantinople (“the city of Constantine”) in his own honor; it was also called the “New Rome,” owing to the city’s new status as political capital of the Roman empire. The Christian, ultimately Greek-speaking state ruled from that city would come to be called Byzantium by modern historians, although the empire’s medieval citizens described themselves as “Rhomaioi,” Romans, and considered themselves the inheritors of the ancient Roman empire.

The Beginning of Byzantium
The first golden age of the empire, the Early Byzantine period, extends from the founding of the new capital into the 700s. Christianity replaced the gods of antiquity as the official religion of the culturally and religiously diverse state in the late wood. The practice of Christian monasticism developed in the fourth century, and continued to be an important part of the Byzantine faith, spreading from Egypt to all parts of the empire.
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/byza/hd_byza.htm

Already under the reign of Constantine I, Christian heretics were being persecuted; beginning in the late 4th century, the ancient pagan religions were also actively suppressed. In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted religion into a religion which was capable of persecuting and sometimes eager to persecute.

Christianity began as a movement within Second Temple Judaism, but the two religions gradually diverged over the first few centuries of the Christian Era.Today, differences of opinion vary between denominations in both religions, but the most important distinction is Christian acceptance and Jewish non-acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah prophesized in the Hebrew Bible and Jewish tradition.
Did they not hate Islam for seeming to share some principles with Judaism.


In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted religion into a religion which was capable of persecuting and sometimes eager to persecute.

Christianity in around the 4th Century managed to spread not only within the Roman Empire but to Germanic tribes beyond the frontier of the Empire like the Goths and Vandals (even if they initially adopted 'Arian' rather than Catholic Christianity), to Mesopotamia and to Ethiopia, which was [b]never conquered [/b]by the Romans and established its own independent kingdom.


Allah doesn't prefer to collect money from you. There is no compulsion in religion. You opt not to join our social defense but are fit and leave with us, you should contribute to the social peace unless you are unable to.

How many of the disciples of Jesus did Paul meet and lead? Did he not become a Jesus follower after the ascension? Would his following claims not ease his political machinations?

...only one possible explanation remains for the Arab success-and that was the spirit of Islam...

The generous terms that the invading armies usually offered made their faith accessible to the conquered populations. And if it was a new and upstart faith, its administration by simple and honest men was preferable to the corruption and persecution that were the norm in more civilized empire
George F. Nafziger, Mark W. Walton, Islam at War: A History, 2003

TenQ:
See how you twist history.

Islam came over 600 years AFTER Christianity had expanded that even Waraqa who lived amongst the Arabs was a Christian. However, it is this same Christians who needed to expand by conquest!?


The two wars of Mohammed to the Byzantines was organised and led by the Muslims AGAINST the Byzantines or was it the Byzantines that led war expeditions against the Muslims?

Christians don't need to conquer to spread the Love of Christ as it is NOT part of our Doctrine nor is it found ANYWHERE in the Bible .


Why is it that Allah and his Mohammed prefer to collect money from us rather than convert us to Islam?

If Jesus was a Muslim, were His disciples also Muslims?

Ohyoudidnt:
False claim! I didn't write this:
The expansion of Byzantine Christianity was intimately connected with the political ambitions of the Byzantine emperors, eager always to spread their influence throughout the Balkan and Russian lands, to Syria, the Holy Land, Egypt, and even the coasts of Italy.
As Constantinople grew in power, other independent ecclesiastical centers, such as Antioch and Alexandria, diminished. In time, especially through heresies and the ravages of the Arab conquests, Alexandria and Antioch were reduced to nothing, and Constantinople stood indisputably as the supreme head of all the Orthodox Churches. This paved the way for one liturgical rite and one language (Greek) within the vast confines of the Byzantine Empire and left the non-Byzantine liturgical rites, such as the Antiochene (Syrian) and Alexandrian (Coptic), to develop only among the Oriental Orthodox Christians who modified the content and substituted their own national languages.

https://www.encyclopedia.com/religion/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/byzantine-christianity



In 330 A.D., the first Christian ruler of the Roman empire, Constantine the Great, transferred the ancient imperial capital from Rome to the city of Byzantion located on the easternmost territory of the European continent, at a major intersection of east-west trade. The emperor renamed this ancient port city Constantinople (“the city of Constantine”) in his own honor; it was also called the “New Rome,” owing to the city’s new status as political capital of the Roman empire. The Christian, ultimately Greek-speaking state ruled from that city would come to be called Byzantium by modern historians, although the empire’s medieval citizens described themselves as “Rhomaioi,” Romans, and considered themselves the inheritors of the ancient Roman empire.

The Beginning of Byzantium
The first golden age of the empire, the Early Byzantine period, extends from the founding of the new capital into the 700s. Christianity replaced the gods of antiquity as the official religion of the culturally and religiously diverse state in the late wood. The practice of Christian monasticism developed in the fourth century, and continued to be an important part of the Byzantine faith, spreading from Egypt to all parts of the empire.
https://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/byza/hd_byza.htm

Already under the reign of Constantine I, Christian heretics were being persecuted; beginning in the late 4th century, the ancient pagan religions were also actively suppressed. In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted religion into a religion which was capable of persecuting and sometimes eager to persecute.

Christianity began as a movement within Second Temple Judaism, but the two religions gradually diverged over the first few centuries of the Christian Era.Today, differences of opinion vary between denominations in both religions, but the most important distinction is Christian acceptance and Jewish non-acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah prophesized in the Hebrew Bible and Jewish tradition.
Did they not hate Islam for seeming to share some principles with Judaism.


In the view of many historians, the Constantinian shift turned Christianity from a persecuted religion into a religion which was capable of persecuting and sometimes eager to persecute.

Christianity in around the 4th Century managed to spread not only within the Roman Empire but to Germanic tribes beyond the frontier of the Empire like the Goths and Vandals (even if they initially adopted 'Arian' rather than Catholic Christianity), to Mesopotamia and to Ethiopia, which was [b]never conquered [/b]by the Romans and established its own independent kingdom.


Allah doesn't prefer to collect money from you. There is no compulsion in religion. You opt not to join our social defense but are fit and leave with us, you should contribute to the social peace unless you are unable to.

How many of the disciples of Jesus did Paul meet and lead? Did he not become a Jesus follower after the ascension? Would his following claims not ease his political machinations?

...only one possible explanation remains for the Arab success-and that was the spirit of Islam...

The generous terms that the invading armies usually offered made their faith accessible to the conquered populations. And if it was a new and upstart faith, its administration by simple and honest men was preferable to the corruption and persecution that were the norm in more civilized empire
George F. Nafziger, Mark W. Walton, Islam at War: A History, 2003

It seems you are more comfortable with the history of the Byzantines than looking at the history around the revelation of the particular ayah of the Qur'an.

The Question was:
The two wars of Mohammed to the Byzantines was organised and led by the Muslims AGAINST the Byzantines or was it the Byzantines that led war expeditions against the Muslims?

You said:

Allah doesn't prefer to collect money from you. There is no compulsion in religion. You opt not to join our social defense but are fit and leave with us, you should contribute to the social peace unless you are unable to.

So, what is Jizya?
Protection fee of karfirs?!

Allah and his Apostle prefer to collect money from us than convert us to Islam.

You said:

How many of the disciples of Jesus did Paul meet and lead? Did he not become a Jesus follower after the ascension? Would his following claims not ease his political machinations?

Paul became a Christian while he was persecuting the Christians. However he was invited in fellowship with the other disciples AND they commissioned him to preach to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:22:
"Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brothers:"
Acts 15:25: "It seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"



Acts 20:1:
"And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called to him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia."

Acts 20:7:
"And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Acts 21:4:
"And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."



Do you need more evidence that Paul was with the Apostles and Disciples of Jesus?


If Jesus was a Muslim, were His disciples also Muslims?

The first Battle is that of Mutah?
What led to it?
The second is that of Tabuk and the question is what battle was fought?
How much of the tax you pay assuming you pay goes into your protection wherever you live?
Paul was invited in fellowship or was convinced by his alleged vision?
How many apostles commissioned Paul?
Who is a Muslim can you define this?
Jesus surely was not and did not identify as a Christian.

TenQ:
It seems you are more comfortable with the history of the Byzantines than looking at the history around the revelation of the particular ayah of the Qur'an.

The Question was:
The two wars of Mohammed to the Byzantines was organised and led by the Muslims AGAINST the Byzantines or was it the Byzantines that led war expeditions against the Muslims?

You said:

So, what is Jizya?
Protection fee of karfirs?!

Allah and his Apostle prefer to collect money from us than convert us to Islam.

You said:

Paul became a Christian while he was persecuting the Christians. However he was invited in fellowship with the other disciples AND they commissioned him to preach to the Gentiles.

Acts 15:22:
"Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brothers:"
Acts 15:25: "It seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul,"



Acts 20:1:
"And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called to him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia."

Acts 20:7:
"And on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached to them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight."

Acts 21:4:
"And finding disciples, we tarried there seven days: who said to Paul through the Spirit, that he should not go up to Jerusalem."



Do you need more evidence that Paul was with the Apostles and Disciples of Jesus?


If Jesus was a Muslim, were His disciples also Muslims?

Ohyoudidnt:
The first Battle is that of Mutah?
What led to it?

Two or three Muslims left their Arabian territory and went into some cities of the Byzantines to ask them to follow Mohammed and his Allah and they were executed. No one knows if the presented the message rashly or not.

Ohyoudidnt:
The second is that of Tabuk and the question is what battle was fought?

Mohammed decided to wage that war against them according to his own reasons.

Ohyoudidnt:
How much of the tax you pay assuming you pay goes into your protection wherever you live?

You only pay tax to a Nation where you live don't you?
Tax varies from 10-30% of taxable income for ALL businesses and citizens who chose to live in a Nation..

Can you explain :
The Byzantines did not live within the Arabian nation, therefore why should they pay the Jizya?

Ohyoudidnt:
Paul was invited in fellowship or was convinced by his alleged vision?

Read again please

Ohyoudidnt:
How many apostles commissioned Paul?

Zero!

Ohyoudidnt:
Who is a Muslim can you define this?

A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!

Ohyoudidnt:
Jesus surely was not and did not identify as a Christian.

Jesus wasn't a Christian and couldn't have identified as a Christian. He didn't even come to establish a religion but a relationship with the Father by which we mortal men can become sons of God:
The Disciples and a followers of Jesus are the Christians.

Who is a Jew?
Was Jesus not a Jew?


Did Jesus also claim that Ezra was the Son of Allah?

Qur'an 9:30
The Jews say, "Ezra is the son of Allāh"; and the Christians say, "The Messiah is the son of Allāh." That is their statement from their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before [them]. May Allāh destroy them; how are they deluded?


Is this statement of Allah an error?

[quote author=TenQ post=125372700]Two or three Muslims left their Arabian territory and went into some cities of the Byzantines to ask them to follow Mohammed and his Allah and they were executed. No one knows if the presented the message rashly or not.


Mohammed decided to wage that war against them according to his own reasons.

An emissary, Al-Harith bin Umair Al-Azdi (R.A.) was sent with a message to Busra, currently in Syria. On his way he was intercepted by Shurahbil bin Amrul-Ghassani, the governor of Al-Balqa and representative of Byzantine Emperor and bruttaly killed.

Killing envoys and messengers used to be regarded as the most awful crime at that time and amounted to the degree of war declaration.

[quote author=TenQ post=125372700]You only pay tax to a Nation where you live don't you?
Tax varies from 10-30% of taxable income for ALL businesses and citizens who chose to live in a Nation..

Were they asked to pay tax in non muslim governed regions? Why are you altering the truth?

[quote author=TenQ post=125372700]Can you explain :
The Byzantines did not live within the Arabian nation, therefore why should they pay the Jizya?

Did the Byzantines not go far and wide conquering regions and getting/forcing following from the inhabits of these regions. Was Shurahbil not a member of the Byzantine army? Byzantines, were a prominent force in the eastern Mediterranean region from the 4th to the 15th century. It is essential to consider the extent to which they lived in and around Arabia. They did engaged in various interactions with the Arab tribes and had influence in the regions adjacent to Arabia.
The Arabian Peninsula was primarily under the control of Arab tribes during the Byzantine era. [b]However, the Byzantines had frequent interactions, both peaceful and hostile, with these tribes. [/b]The Arab tribes, particularly those in the outskirts of the Byzantine Empire, acted as strategic allies, trade partners, or sometimes as adversaries. The Byzantines had military expeditions into the Arabian Peninsula and established garrison towns along the borders.
Byzantine influence can be seen in their ties with the kingdoms and cities of the Levant, Egypt, and the Near East, which played significant roles in trade and cultural exchange with the Arabian Peninsula.

[quote author=TenQ post=125372700]A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!

Jesus wasn't a Christian and couldn't have identified as a Christian. He didn't even come to establish a religion but a relationship with the Father by which we mortal men can become sons of God:
The Disciples and a followers of Jesus are the Christians.

A Muslim is a person who has dedicated his worship exclusively to God. A follower of Islam.
Islam is stated as an accepted religion in the Quran during the lifetime of Muhammad not a later nomenclature.

[quote author=TenQ post=125372700]Jesus wasn't a Christian and couldn't have identified as a Christian. He didn't even come to establish a religion but a relationship with the Father by which we mortal men can become sons of God:
The Disciples and a followers of Jesus are the Christians.
Who is a Jew?
Was Jesus not a Jew?
Did Jesus also claim that Ezra was the Son of Allah?

A name Jesus never mentioned. Did he fellowship with leaders of Judaism in the Jewish Temples?
And your following question it has been established that it wasn't all Jews that called Uzair son of God. There is no consensus that this is Ezra.

Will address Paul in following

Paul, one of the most influential figures in the early Christian Church.

According to the New Testament, Paul encountered Peter, James, and John during his ministry. In Galatians 1:18-19, Paul explicitly mentions meeting with Peter. Additionally, in Galatians 2:9, he writes about his interaction with James and John.
Paul's zealous dedication to the Jewish law played a significant role in his understanding of the gospel.
Christianity represents a departure from Jewish law in many significant ways. Central to Christian theology is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and Savior, which led to the formation of a new covenant. This new covenant, believers argue, supersedes the need for strict adherence to Jewish law.

Are we seeing reasonable points of question?
Paul's emphasis on themes like salvation by faith and the role of grace in salvation differed from Jesus' teachings.

Paul's writings are seen as a means of interpreting and applying Jesus' teachings to the specific context of the early church however is he better to interpret than the action disciples of Jesus?

[quote author=Ohyoudidnt post=125379344][/quote]I wish you reposted this post.

1. As of the time Allah gave the instruction of collecting Jizya from the Christians, the Byzantines were NOT under the jurisprudence of the Arabs. This can only happen WHEN the Muslims invade the land of the Byzantines, conquer them and force them to pay Jizya to live.

Meaning that, it is a Big LIE that Jizya is protection money Christian should pay Muslims.

2. You said:

Were they asked to pay tax in non muslim governed regions? Why are you altering the truth?

Where the Byzantines under the rules of the Arabs as of the time of Mohammed?
If NOT, then you are the one altering the truth.

You said:

A Muslim is a person who has dedicated his worship exclusively to God. A follower of Islam.
Islam is stated as an accepted religion in the Quran during the lifetime of Muhammad not a later nomenclature.

No sir!
If this was true, then you have to present some evidence of the word Muslim or Islam existing BEFORE Muhammad.

If you can't :

A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!
This can be proved easily from the shahada: can anyone become a Muslim without submission to Mohammed and Allah?


You said:

A name Jesus never mentioned. Did he fellowship with leaders of Judaism in the Jewish Temples?
And your following question it has been established that it wasn't all Jews that called Uzair son of God. There is no consensus that this is Ezra.

How do you know Jesus never mentioned Ezra? Do you have records of what Jesus taught?

Allah did NOT say that
"Some Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"
Allah said:
"The Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"

There is either a big ERROR by Allah or a MISTAKE or FALSEHOOD! Your pick.

Jesus was a Jew: He must also have said Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah or the Qur'an is False.

Ohyoudidnt:
Paul, one of the most influential figures in the early Christian Church.

According to the New Testament, Paul encountered Peter, James, and John during his ministry. In Galatians 1:18-19, Paul explicitly mentions meeting with Peter. Additionally, in Galatians 2:9, he writes about his interaction with James and John.
Paul's zealous dedication to the Jewish law played a significant role in his understanding of the gospel.
Christianity represents a departure from Jewish law in many significant ways. Central to Christian theology is the belief in Jesus Christ as the Messiah and Savior, which led to the formation of a new covenant. This new covenant, believers argue, supersedes the need for strict adherence to Jewish law.

Are we seeing reasonable points of question?
Paul's emphasis on themes like salvation by faith and the role of grace in salvation differed from Jesus' teachings.

Paul's writings are seen as a means of interpreting and applying Jesus' teachings to the specific context of the early church however is he better to interpret than the action disciples of Jesus?

So you are aware that Paul was with the Apostles of Jesus and he interacted well with them.

Here is what Peter wrote about the teachings of Paul.

2Pet 3:15-16:
"And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."

Sorry sir!

Aha! Do you really have your facts right?

The Byzantines and Sasanians were rival powers who fought each other for supremacy in the Middle East. Although the conflict between the two powers began during the 6th century AD, it is in fact a continuation of a much longer rivalry which was started by their predecessors during the 1st century BC. The Byzantine–Sasanian War of 602–628 AD is considered to be the most devastating of the wars fought between the two powers. Moreover, it is also the final conflict between them, as the Sasanian Empire was completely conquered by the Muslims shortly after the war concluded.
The Byzantine Empire was also severely weakened and exhausted by the war, which contributed to the loss of much of their land to the Islamic Rashidun Caliphate.
Nevertheless, the Byzantines, unlike its Persian rivals, were not entirely destroyed by the Muslims, and the two were engaged in a series of wars that lasted till the 11th century.
From the above I ask is a weakened force in any position of control?

When was Quran 9:29 revealed?

Where the weakened Byzantine forces outsude the Asian/Arabian territory or didn't they live and repeatedly trade there.

Remember their journeys there started from when Christians were persecuted in Rome up till the Edict of Milan then there was the persecution between the sects.

Were the Byzantines not in an area governed by Muslims? After Muhammad pbuh passed enter the Rashidun Caliphate.

TenQ:
I wish you reposted this post.

1. As of the time Allah gave the instruction of collecting Jizya from the Christians, the Byzantines were NOT under the jurisprudence of the Arabs. This can only happen WHEN the Muslims invade the land of the Byzantines, conquer them and force them to pay Jizya to live. False

Meaning that, it is a Big LIE that Jizya is protection money Christian should pay Muslims. False

2. You said:

Where the Byzantines under the rules of the Arabs as of the time of Mohammed?
If NOT, then you are the one altering the truth.

You said:


No sir!
If this was true, then you have to present some evidence of the word Muslim or Islam existing BEFORE Muhammad.

If you can't :

A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!
This can be proved easily from the shahada: can anyone become a Muslim without submission to Mohammed and Allah?


You said:



How do you know Jesus never mentioned Ezra? Do you have records of what Jesus taught?

Allah did NOT say that
"Some Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"
Allah said:
"The Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"

There is either a big ERROR by Allah or a MISTAKE or FALSEHOOD! Your pick.

Jesus was a Jew: He must also have said Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah or the Qur'an is False.

A muslim is an adherent of Islam.

الِإسْلَام is the submission to the will of Allah/Almighty God

The word 'Islam' in Arabic means submission to the will of God. Followers of Islam are called Muslims.

TenQ:
I wish you reposted this post.

1. As of the time Allah gave the instruction of collecting Jizya from the Christians, the Byzantines were NOT under the jurisprudence of the Arabs. This can only happen WHEN the Muslims invade the land of the Byzantines, conquer them and force them to pay Jizya to live.

Meaning that, it is a Big LIE that Jizya is protection money Christian should pay Muslims.

2. You said:

Where the Byzantines under the rules of the Arabs as of the time of Mohammed?
If NOT, then you are the one altering the truth.

You said:


No sir!
If this was true, then you have to present some evidence of the word Muslim or Islam existing BEFORE Muhammad.

If you can't :

A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!
This can be proved easily from the shahada: can anyone become a Muslim without submission to Mohammed and Allah?


You said:



How do you know Jesus never mentioned Ezra? Do you have records of what Jesus taught?

Allah did NOT say that
"Some Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"
Allah said:
"The Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"

There is either a big ERROR by Allah or a MISTAKE or FALSEHOOD! Your pick.

Jesus was a Jew: He must also have said Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah or the Qur'an is False.

Do all who identify as Christians say Jesus is the son of God in a begotten sense?

Is Son of God not a phrase for righteousness?

As not all Christians say Jesus is a son of God, so it is for the Jews who called Uzair the son of God.

A generalized statement.

TenQ:
I wish you reposted this post.

1. As of the time Allah gave the instruction of collecting Jizya from the Christians, the Byzantines were NOT under the jurisprudence of the Arabs. This can only happen WHEN the Muslims invade the land of the Byzantines, conquer them and force them to pay Jizya to live.

Meaning that, it is a Big LIE that Jizya is protection money Christian should pay Muslims.

2. You said:

Where the Byzantines under the rules of the Arabs as of the time of Mohammed?
If NOT, then you are the one altering the truth.

You said:


No sir!
If this was true, then you have to present some evidence of the word Muslim or Islam existing BEFORE Muhammad.

If you can't :

A person who submit to both Mohammed and Allah!
This can be proved easily from the shahada: can anyone become a Muslim without submission to Mohammed and Allah?


You said:



How do you know Jesus never mentioned Ezra? Do you have records of what Jesus taught?

Allah did NOT say that
"Some Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"
Allah said:
"The Jews say Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah"

There is either a big ERROR by Allah or a MISTAKE or FALSEHOOD! Your pick.

Jesus was a Jew: He must also have said Ezra or Uzair is the Son of Allah or the Qur'an is False.

Paul is reported to have met a maximum of 3 out of 12 disciples. Even if we know Judas Iscariot is said to have died (some support that he may have been the one crucified), as a science oriented person are the 3 a good enough representation of 11 or 12. This is not even up to 30%.

Was Paul not a Pharisee? After setting Jesus up he came to finish up the emerging movement.
O di egwu!

TenQ:
So you are aware that Paul was with the Apostles of Jesus and he interacted well with them.

Here is what Peter wrote about the teachings of Paul.

2Pet 3:15-16:
"And account that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given to him has written to you; As also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction."

Sorry sir!

Ohyoudidnt:
Do all who identify as Christians say Jesus is the son of God in a begotten sense?

A big YES

Ohyoudidnt:
Is Son of God not a phrase for righteousness?

So you of God is used in itscontext
1. Angels as Soon as Sons of God(First spiritual beings from God)
2. Adam as Son of God (First physical spirit being)
3. Israel as Son of God (Through Adoption)
4. Individual Christians (Through Adoption)
5. Jesus Christ (God incarnate the Messiah)

Sonship has nothing to do with Righteousness sir. Sonship come only if you are the FIRST of God's Creation or Adoption.

Ohyoudidnt:
As not all Christians say Jesus is a son of God, so it is for the Jews who called Uzair the son of God.

A generalized statement.

1. Find me a single Christian group that do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God? For non exists.
Even Christian-like Cult groups like JW organisation believe that Jesus is the created Son of God (as the first Angel) who in turn created everything in the Universe on behalf of God.

Are Ahmadiyas true Muslims?

2. The statement that the Jews called Uzaiah or Ezra the Son of Allah is a blatant lie as it is not supported with either history or Jewish tradition or the Tanakh.

It is clear that Allah did not say the
"some Jews say Ezra is the Son of Allah"
what Allah said was that
" The Jews say Ezra is the Son of Allah"

Ohyoudidnt:
Paul is reported to have met a maximum of 3 out of 12 disciples. Even if we know Judas Iscariot is said to have died (some support that he may have been the one crucified), as a science oriented person are the 3 a good enough representation of 11 or 12. This is not even up to 30%.

Was Paul not a Pharisee? After setting Jesus up he came to finish up the emerging movement.
O di egwu!

I have shown you clearly that Peter, the supposed head of the Apostles after Christ endorsed the writings of Paul.

Let me now prove your 3/12 doctrine a lie.

Acts 9:26-27:
"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared to them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus."

You can clearly see how Barnabas took Peter to see only 3 out of 12 Apostles.


Sorry sir!

Ohyoudidnt:
A muslim is an adherent of Islam.

الِإسْلَام is the submission to the will of Allah/Almighty God

The word 'Islam' in Arabic means submission to the will of God. Followers of Islam are called Muslims.

This is how Mohammed's followers define the Terms Muslim and Islam.


Can you please tell us how the people of the Book define the Terms Muslim and Islam?

In case you are confused: people like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Jesus etc. must have defined or used the term Muslim or Islam at least during their lifetime!

Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]." [ Q3: 64 ]
Him here being Allah

And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. [b]Allah named you "Muslims" [/b]before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah . He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper. [Q22: 78]

TenQ:
This is how Mohammed's followers define the Terms Muslim and Islam.


Can you please tell us how the people of the Book define the Terms Muslim and Islam?

In case you are confused: people like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Jesus etc. must have defined or used the term Muslim or Islam at least during their lifetime!

Wrong again. Actual; in Jesus presence,disciples please not the filler uppers that came after his depature.

One of the main arguments against considering Barnabas a true apostle is the fact that he was not one of the original twelve disciples chosen by Jesus. Very much like Paul?
Maybe not!


Thus, with fervent zeal, and sanguine expectations, the apostle Paul attempted to join himself to the disciples of Christ while he was in Jerusalem (Acts 9:26).
Why so much desperation on the part of Paul?

As the Jews hated him (Paul), so the Christians suspected him. His escape had been too hurried to allow of his bringing "letters of commendation." Whatever distant rumor might have reached them of his conduct at Damascus or retirement in Arabia, they could not believe that Paul was really a disciple.

Barnabas, "the son of consolation" (Acts 4:36), already known to us as a generous contributor of his wealth to the poor (Acts 4:36), made a difference in the life of Paul.

Who wrote the acts?
Did the apostles also follow the money?

In any case you still have shown only 3 original apostle meetings. Saying he met with apostles and not naming all is rather ambiguous Mr.


Our discussions had been about the Byzantines and Muslim wars which isn't even the subject of this thread; This Mosque In Abu Dhabi, UAE Will Shock You

Mary(am) the mother of Isa a.s is honoured in Islam and amongst women with a chapter in the Quran named aftee her.

TenQ:
I have shown you clearly that Peter, the supposed head of the Apostles after Christ endorsed the writings of Paul.

Let me now prove your 3/12 doctrine a lie.

Acts 9:26-27:
"And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared to them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus."

You can clearly see how Barnabas took Peter to see only 3 out of 12 Apostles.


Sorry sir!

Ohyoudidnt:
Say, "O People of the Scripture, come to a word that is equitable between us and you - that we will not worship except Allah and not associate anything with Him and not take one another as lords instead of Allah ." But if they turn away, then say, "Bear witness that we are Muslims [submitting to Him]." [ Q3: 64 ]
Him here being Allah

And strive for Allah with the striving due to Him. He has chosen you and has not placed upon you in the religion any difficulty. [It is] the religion of your father, Abraham. Allah named you "Muslims" [/b]before [in former scriptures] and in this [revelation] that the Messenger may be a witness over you and you may be witnesses over the people. So establish prayer and give zakah and hold fast to Allah . He is your protector; and excellent is the protector, and excellent is the helper. [Q22: 78]

You have not answered the question as you are still bringing Mohammed's definition of Islam or Muslim to bare.

[b]I said:
Can you please tell us how the people of the Book define the Terms Muslim and Islam?

In case you are confused: people like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Jesus etc. must have defined or used the term Muslim or Islam at least during their lifetime!


At least such names like Islam or Muslim should exist in their religion : don't you think so?

Ohyoudidnt:
Wrong again. Actual; in Jesus presence,disciples please not the filler uppers that came after his depature.

One of the main arguments against considering Barnabas a true apostle is the fact that he was not one of the original twelve disciples chosen by Jesus. Very much like Paul?
Maybe not!


Thus, with fervent zeal, and sanguine expectations, the apostle Paul attempted to join himself to the disciples of Christ while he was in Jerusalem (Acts 9:26).
Why so much desperation on the part of Paul?

As the Jews hated him (Paul), so the Christians suspected him. His escape had been too hurried to allow of his bringing "letters of commendation." Whatever distant rumor might have reached them of his conduct at Damascus or retirement in Arabia, they could not believe that Paul was really a disciple.

Barnabas, "the son of consolation" (Acts 4:36), already known to us as a generous contributor of his wealth to the poor (Acts 4:36), made a difference in the life of Paul.

Who wrote the acts?
Did the apostles also follow the money?

In any case you still have shown only 3 original apostle meetings. Saying he met with apostles and not naming all is rather ambiguous Mr.


Our discussions had been about the Byzantines and Muslim wars which isn't even the subject of this thread; This Mosque In Abu Dhabi, UAE Will Shock You

Mary(am) the mother of Isa a.s is honoured in Islam and amongst women with a chapter in the Quran named aftee her.

Just simply admit that your argument of 3/12 is a conjecture you manufactured.

Is Mary the mother of Jesus important indeed or is it for the purpose of sex with Mohammed?

Let me ask you two simple questions
1. Jesus said in paradise, no one will marry wives : Mohammed says the contrary that Muslims will have multiple wives
Who should know about paradise better, Jesus or Mohammed on this case and why is the contradiction.

2. Mohammed claimed that he would marry Mary the Mother of Jesus in paradise : Even if there is marriage in paradise, why do you think Joseph would be demoted or prevented from marrying Mary but Mohammed would?

Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya,
Mohammed said:
"The Messenger of God ... said, ‘God married me in paradise to Mary the daughter of 'Imran and to the wife of Pharaoh and the sister of Moses.’"

Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya (Cairo: Dar al-Kutub, 1968/1388), p. 381- as cited in Aliah Schleifer's Mary The Blessed Virgin of Islam (Fons Vitae; ISBN: 1887752021; July 1, 1998), p. 64;
https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars-Muhammad.html

Al-Siyuti (6/395)
Muhammad said:
“In heaven, Mary mother of Jesus, will be one of my wives.”

https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars-Muhammad.html

Muhammad's definition or what was revealed to him?

People of the book? Which book? Definitely I know not of any they published after the Quran and we can not vouch so much for what was revealed to them before. Haven undergone different journeys of loss and translation to other languages from the original.

Whatever you have in Aramaic or close to this is but from a translation of Greek.

You should check your own confusion or journey back in time perhaps spiritually to have a conversation with those you mention.

TenQ:
You have not answered the question as you are still bringing Mohammed's definition of Islam or Muslim to bare.

I said:
Can you please tell us how the people of the Book define the Terms Muslim and Islam?

In case you are confused: people like Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Jesus etc. must have defined or used the term Muslim or Islam at least during their lifetime!


At least such names like Islam or Muslim should exist in their religion : don't you think so?

Your obsession with hadith of highly questionable nature is fantastic. Is it the Opium you are hooked on.

My argument is infallible because meeting with apostles doesn't specify:
1. how many apostles were met with and
2. Both Paul and Barnabas became apostles after Jesus departure.
Conveniently they back each other up.

Are you certain of the statement you relate from Muhammad? Present the chain of narration and quality of the alleged narrators or is this from the Quran?

TenQ:
Just simply admit that your argument of 3/12 is a conjecture you manufactured.

Is Mary the mother of Jesus important indeed or is it for the purpose of sex with Mohammed?

Let me ask you two simple questions
1. Jesus said in paradise, no one will marry wives : Mohammed says the contrary that Muslims will have multiple wives
Who should know about paradise better, Jesus or Mohammed on this case and why is the contradiction.

2. Mohammed claimed that he would marry Mary the Mother of Jesus in paradise : Even if there is marriage in paradise, why do you think Joseph would be demoted or prevented from marrying Mary but Mohammed would?

Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya,
Mohammed said:
"The Messenger of God ... said, ‘God married me in paradise to Mary the daughter of 'Imran and to the wife of Pharaoh and the sister of Moses.’"

Ibn Kathir, Qisas al-Anbiya (Cairo: Dar al-Kutub, 1968/1388), p. 381- as cited in Aliah Schleifer's Mary The Blessed Virgin of Islam (Fons Vitae; ISBN: 1887752021; July 1, 1998), p. 64;
https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars-Muhammad.html

Al-Siyuti (6/395)
Muhammad said:
“In heaven, Mary mother of Jesus, will be one of my wives.”

https://wikiislam.github.io/wiki/Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars-Muhammad.html

Ohyoudidnt:
Muhammad's definition or what was revealed to him?

People of the book? Which book? Definitely I know not of any they published after the Quran and we can not vouch so much for what was revealed to them before. Haven undergone different journeys of loss and translation to other languages from the original.

Whatever you have in Aramaic or close to this is but from a translation of Greek.

You should check your own confusion or journey back in time perhaps spiritually to have a conversation with those you mention.

Muslims will even throw the words of their prophet and Allah under the bus to win an argument!

The Question is very simple: show us any prophet of God that used the word Islam or Muslim?

You can't find even a single one!?

It simply means that the words Muslim or Islam was a creation of Mohammed!

Ohyoudidnt:
Your obsession with hadith of highly questionable nature is fantastic. Is it the Opium you are hooked on.

My argument is infallible because meeting with apostles doesn't specify:
1. how many apostles were met with and
2. Both Paul and Barnabas became apostles after Jesus departure.
Conveniently they back each other up.

Are you certain of the statement you relate from Muhammad? Present the chain of narration and quality of the alleged narrators or is this from the Quran?

Did Christians write your hadiths for you?
Did I made conjectures of hadiths not in your religious books.

I have given you two different sources:
One from Al-Siyuti and the other from Ibn Kathir! Did both of them conspire to write or collect the hadiths?

Are you saying that truth is measured only by chains of Narrative?. Please what is the chain of narration of both the Nigerian National anthem and national pledge?


Why is Mohammed obsessed with sex?

You didn't answer this my question :

Jesus said in paradise,
no one will marry wives :
Mohammed says the contrary that
Muslims will have multiple wives

Who should know about paradise better, Jesus or Mohammed on this case and why is the contradiction.


Is this also fake hadith that Muslims will have wives in paradise?

Focus please. The Quran was revealed in Arabic, still widely read in arabic and it's verses still used for prayer in Arabic

TenQ:
Muslims will even throw the words of their prophet and Allah under the bus to win an argument!

The Question is very simple: show us any prophet of God that used the word Islam or Muslim?

You can't find even a single one!?

It simply means that the words Muslim or Islam was a creation of Mohammed!

Who brought sex into this discussion? What has sex got to do with Paul and Barnabas meeting the 12 disciples of Jesus?

Do we now see who is obsessed with sex?
Is there any specific claim of intercourse in Paradise from Islamic script or your pervert inferences?

See how feeble you are reducing eternity to a national pledge and anthem. How do they affect my eternity? Oh you find another human political and material thing to argue about? Get a life!

Again this thread is about Re: This Mosque In Abu Dhabi, UAE Will Shock You.

TenQ:
Did Christians write your hadiths for you?
Did I made conjectures of hadiths not in your religious books.

I have given you two different sources:
One from Al-Siyuti and the other from Ibn Kathir! Did both of them conspire to write or collect the hadiths?

Are you saying that truth is measured only by chains of Narrative?. Please what is the chain of narration of both the Nigerian National anthem and national pledge?


Why is Mohammed obsessed with sex?

You didn't answer this my question :

Jesus said in paradise,
no one will marry wives :
Mohammed says the contrary that
Muslims will have multiple wives

Who should know about paradise better, Jesus or Mohammed on this case and why is the contradiction.


Is this also fake hadith that Muslims will have wives in paradise?

At the barest minimum Islam and Muslim are in the Quran revealed through Muhammad.
Muslims say we follow the religion of Abraham which is Hanif. See Q2:135
Hanif is a pure monotheistic belief.

I know your intent Q2:120 and need not your approval.

Jesus whom you follow never said Christian or Christianity while he was alive. Funny Christ comes from the Greek word Christos.
Paul first used this innit.

Again! This thread is:

Re: This Mosque In Abu Dhabi, UAE Will Shock You.

TenQ:
Muslims will even throw the words of their prophet and Allah under the bus to win an argument!

The Question is very simple: show us any prophet of God that used the word Islam or Muslim?

You can't find even a single one!?

It simply means that the words Muslim or Islam was a creation of Mohammed!