₦airaland Forum

Kingsnairaland:
Summary of
Romans 6:15-23
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.

A slave is one who has absolutely no authority over him or herself.

Our will is God will just like the will of Jesus was God will ask yourself was Jesus a robot

. We are in God and God is in us.

Aemmyjah:
Jesus had no freewill?

Kingsnairaland:
Summary of
Romans 6:15-23
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.

A slave is one who has absolutely no authority over him or herself.

Our will is God will just like the will of Jesus was God will ask yourself was Jesus a robot

. We are in God and God is in us.

Aemmyjah:
Jesus had no freewill. Yes or No?

Ken4Christ:
This is a false doctrine. You don't use a few scriptures to establish a doctrine and ignore many more others that are contrary.

I will give you scriptures little by little that doesn't support your eternity security. I hope these scriptures will reset your spiritual brain

Evidence No 1

1st Timothy 4:1.
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils.

Who did Paul said will depart from the faith? Are they not believers?

So, it's possible to depart from the faith. You are a free moral being even after getting saved. If you chose to depart from the faith for any reason, not even God can stop you.

Aemmyjah:
Jesus had no freewill. Yes or No?

Kingsnairaland:
Jesus has a will and you have yours but

Jesus will will automatically become the fathers will....
Just like in us when we give our own life to Jesus our own will will automatically become God's will

It easy to understand.... I told you, you will become a slave to to holiness and righteousness.

paxonel:
...
You counter the op that one can loose his salvation simply because he is a sinner.
Now the same you is changing your position that a thief who is a sinner is saved in paradise.

paxonel:
you are always being troublesome jumping into people's threads as usual to start quoting people when no one cares about you.
I for one, if i see your mumu comments I don't give a damn, but you are the one always jumping to quote me.
Now i have responded, you are running helter skelter like an unstable confused soul begging my question and bringing fallacious ad hominem instead of answering the question.

You counter the op that one can loose his salvation simply because he is a sinner.
Now the same you is changing your position that a thief who is a sinner is saved in paradise.

Can't you see how contradictive you sound?

Only Satan says one thing and the next time he contradicts himself with another statement.

Whoever listens to you does that at his own peril.

So get lost
Don't ever quote me again o.

No sense!

Dtruthspeaker:
Everyone sees that I have already countered the up and that you kept on moving the post away from the op and moving the post everytime I answered you.

So clearly, they can reasonably see that I have stopped arguing because the argument has gone far from the original post which you could not counter.

So clearly, like Satan you are looking for people to continue sinning so that they become irredeemable and therefore they shall die with you and Satan, stupidly forgetting that you shall also pay for their deaths also..

Shebi Judgment Day is coming nearer, you shall soon regret all your stupidity and evilness.

Aemmyjah:
😂

Aemmyjah:
Adjective
freewill (not comparable)
Voluntary, done of one's own accord

The other guy who's desperate for attention, I told him I can't interact him more than once a day especially as he cannot differentiate what is freewill and what is a will

Now,let's imagine that my father's will is for me to be a doctor and relocate to India, it is within my own freewill to decide if I wanted to do so or not right? Unless he forced me against my will
I am a dedicated Christian and vowed to live the rest of my life to doing God's will. I am not a robot as it's not automatic since it must be demonstrated by obedience and love and with a joyful attitude. Someone will bring his own folly and lack of comprehension of simple English instead of consulting the dictionary.

Now, no need to talk much
Jesus Christ had freewill. Yes or No?

Kingsnairaland:
1st Timothy 4:1

Those who depart from the faith in the last times will choose to listen to deceitful spirits and doctrines or teachings of demons.

They will follow false teaching that sounds convincing and is intended to deceive. These falsehoods are carefully devised;

their design is to deceive people from following the faith. Those who depart from the faith are following liars with “seared” consciences.

Their consciences are burned; the false teachers, who are mouthpieces for evil spirits, are dull to their own hypocrisy and unscrupulous behavior (1 Timothy 4:2).

Now let look at them to show you why they departed from the faith

Luke 8:13
And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away.

So this shows they believe for a while and have faith for a while that is why they depart from the faith

Look at 1 John 2:19
This is the key. It reads
, “They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.”

So they were not actually saved..... They only had temporal believe temporarily faith.... Just like Jesus said in Luke 8:13...

Those who depart from the faith in the last times will choose to listen to deceitful spirits and doctrines or teachings of demons.

They will follow false teaching that sounds convincing and is intended to deceive. These falsehoods are carefully devised; their design is to deceive people from following the faith. Those who depart from the faith are following liars with “seared” consciences.

Their consciences are burned; the false teachers, who are mouthpieces for evil spirits, are dull to their own hypocrisy and unscrupulous behavior (1 Timothy 4:2).

Now Paul shows timothy couple of specific examples

The false teachers of the last times will forbid marriage and abstain from foods that God has permitted (1 Timothy 4:3).

Those who will depart from the faith will be deceived by a kind of legalism. No longer will these people focus on the grace of Christ or the faith that Jesus authored and perfected (Hebrews 12:1).
Instead, they will attempt to regulate behavior in contradiction to the freedom God has provided..

Now let see what faith they will depart from

Go back to 1Timothy 3:16
the 'mystery from which true godliness faith comes and springs' in
I Tim 3:16

"this people who depart will stop believing that

He (God) appeared in the flesh,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory."

They stop believing that Jesus is God because their faith believes was temporarily faith not the real saved faith which can never be lost

This great mystery, the gospel, is the faith which some will abandon in exchange for deceptive teachings.
They will trade true godliness
(faith in Christ, from whence springs virtue and holy living)
for a false appearance of godliness.
They will set up rules, such as do not marry and do not eat certain things (I Tim 4:3), which they then try and enforce upon others...


These people are not mere fakers, but started with faith in Christ temporary and then abandoned the truth, deceived to trade grace in exchange for false works..
Their faith was merely temporary, not a genuine faith that proves true until the end. They stopped abiding with Christ, which leads to a terrible fate (John 15; II Pet 2:17-22, etc).

We can spot these deceptive teachers,
who themselves are deceived liars, by examining what they teach.
Are they judging others for a meaningless practice and teaching them to abstain from something in order to be more 'holy'?
Some modern examples might be '
Do not wear certain dress, don't get a tattoo, don't drink coffee, don't watch tv, never drink, don't eat meat, never celebrate a secular holiday,' etc.

Meanwhile, they excuse the sin in their own lives because they follow added 'rules' that they claim make one truly Christian or a better Christian.

, a good teacher will focus on our relationship with Christ and how that leads to discerning the will of God and growing in virtue and holiness, such as in II Pet 1:3-11.

Ken4Christ:
Your defense is too long. You are just looking for ways to support your eternal security doctrine.

To depart from the faith means that they were once in the faith. So, please reexamine your doctrine before you lure so many into destruction.

What about the category of people the writer of Hebrews talked about. They were not only saved, they were filled with the Holy Spirit and even tasted of the power of the world to come. But he said, if such people fall away, it's difficult to restore them back to faith.

So, it means one can fall away at any level of maturity.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is why the scripture says that we should take heed, lest we fall.

Ken4Christ:
Your defense is too long. You are just looking for ways to support your eternal security doctrine.

To depart from the faith means that they were once in the faith. So, please reexamine your doctrine before you lure so many into destruction.

What about the category of people the writer of Hebrews talked about. They were not only saved, they were filled with the Holy Spirit and even tasted of the power of the world to come. But he said, if such people fall away, it's difficult to restore them back to faith.

So, it means one can fall away at any level of maturity.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is why the scripture says that we should take heed, lest we fall.

Ken4Christ:
Your defense is too long. You are just looking for ways to support your eternal security doctrine.

To depart from the faith means that they were once in the faith. So, please reexamine your doctrine before you lure so many into destruction.

What about the category of people the writer of Hebrews talked about. They were not only saved, they were filled with the Holy Spirit and even tasted of the power of the world to come. But he said, if such people fall away, it's difficult to restore them back to faith.

So, it means one can fall away at any level of maturity.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is why the scripture says that we should take heed, lest we fall.

Ken4Christ:
Your defense is too long. You are just looking for ways to support your eternal security doctrine.

To depart from the faith means that they were once in the faith. So, please reexamine your doctrine before you lure so many into destruction.

What about the category of people the writer of Hebrews talked about. They were not only saved, they were filled with the Holy Spirit and even tasted of the power of the world to come. But he said, if such people fall away, it's difficult to restore them back to faith.

So, it means one can fall away at any level of maturity.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

This is why the scripture says that we should take heed, lest we fall.

Kingsnairaland:
Hebrews 6:4–6 states,
“It is impossible for those
who have once been enlightened,
who have tasted the heavenly gift,
who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance.

There is are five.... who's.... At this verse Let look at them.......

First....
Been enlightened or understanding the words of Scripture is not the same as being regenerated by the Holy Spirit..

Now first example
John 1:9....
This place is talking about Jesus.....
9 The true light, which gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

So John 1:9 describes Jesus, the “true Light,” giving light “to every man or every one ”; but please look very well because this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man (everyone) is saved...

So this place is talking about group of unbelievers who have been exposed to God’s redemptive truth they have heard the truth and even accepted to believe in Jesus but they were never saved..... You can still see them..... But they are people who have not exercised genuine saving faith...

Second who....
who have tasted the heavenly gift....

This brief experience with the heavenly gift is not actually the equivalent to salvation;
rather, it is likened to the second and third soils in Jesus’ parable (Matthew 13:3–23),
which describes people who receive the truth of the gospel they came eat the bread that Jesus multiply that bread and fish was heavenly gift yet they refused to believe so this are are not truly saved.

Third who......
who have shared in the Holy Spirit .

Let use this example below to show how one can share of the holy spirit.. Without the holy spirit living inside them

There are three big bus going from Lagos to Abuja you are in the last bus then you start to preach at the front near the entrance door then on the road Thieves come and rob and kill people in the first two bus
Then they open your door and see you praying
Then they leave without coming inside

What happened in that your bus is what we call God using the holy spirit to cover you and all those inside so what those rest inside with you experience was the sharing of holy spirit covering

Note the difference.....
I hope you know at the end some will believe in what you preach but others will not some will say it by chance or some will even say you use juju and walk away

Let look at example in the Bible

John 18:4-6
After Jesus received Judas' kiss of betrayal, He stepped forward and asked the crowd of militia, “…Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he…. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground”....


Look at those who shared the power of the holy spirit in John 18:4-6
they fell to the ground yet they still refuse to believe and arrest Jesus

Infact one person peter cut his ear out and Jesus put the ear back in yet they saw this holy spirit power and still refuse to believe

So those who share in this holy spirit power and refuse to believe can not be saved again that is what Hebrews 6:4–6
Is saying

This other who's.....

Paul now sumarise it by combining all the same thing he said before...

They have..... who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away

They know the words of God and his goodness in the Bible
Just like I explained up
and have seen his powers the power of the holy spirit in action

Yet they refuse and fall away.... Just like the seed that fell away when the sower wants to sow the seed..


If they shall fall away,..this people describe above
.. After seeing all the things they see and hear

..... So Paul is saying that to renew them again unto repentance;....notice here they never completely repented... And never truly believed in Jesus... And Paul is saying to make them repent and believe in Jesus again is hard to do... so to use another method or

.. another example or another power of the holy spirit..to convince them .. Will be very hard to do
Because
To bring another thing that can renew them will be very hard to do....
Because it is just like killing Jesus again which can not be done

... seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame....



Glory to God.

So my brother they were never saved they never truly believed in Jesus.

paxonel:
It is extremely difficult for genuine Christians to fall away from the faith.

Now, consider trying to convince an extremely devoted Muslim to abandon Islam for another religion, that is how difficult to also convince a Christian to abandon his faith, especially those once that were born and brought up by Christian parents.
Some Christian's in their very hearts are deeply committed to Christ but they wount show it outrightly. It will be very difficult to even engage these kind of Christians into religious talk, talkless of getting them falling away.

This explains why Jesus said

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Ken4Christ:
Luke 18:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and IN TIME OF TEMPTATION FALL AWAY.

Jesus let us know that some believers can fall away in times of temptations.

Don't look for scriptures to support your preconceived opinion and ignore many others that are contrary.

Ken4Christ:
Pride will destroy you. Must you defend a false teaching to a fault?

If they were never saved, they won't have anything to fall away from.

You have made up your mind believe your lie and ready to defend it at all cost.

You will destroy yourself and those who listen to you. I reserve the other evidences which are up to 20. It's no use. Go ahead with your deceitful teachings.

Aemmyjah:
2 Peter 2:20-22
20 Certainly if after escaping from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, their final state has become worse for them than the first.
21 It would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it to turn away from the holy commandment they had received.
22 What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”


Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For as regards those who were once enlightened and who have tasted the heavenly free gift and who have become partakers of holy spirit
5 and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things,
6 but have fallen away, it is impossible to revive them again to repentance, because they nail the Son of God to the stake again for themselves and expose him to public shame.


Philippians 2:12
Consequently, my beloved ones, just as you have always obeyed, not only during my presence but now much more readily during my absence, keep working out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


John 15: 5,6
5. I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever remains in union with me and I in union with him, this one bears much fruit; for apart from me you can do nothing at all.
6 If anyone does not remain in union with me, he is thrown out like a branch and dries up. And men gather those branches and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.


Romans 11:20-22
20 That is true! For their lack of faith, they were broken off, but you are standing by faith. Do not be haughty, but be in fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22 Consider, therefore, God’s kindness and severity. There is severity toward those who fell, but toward you there is God’s kindness, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise, you too will be lopped off.



Matthew 24:13
13 But the one who has endured to the end will be saved




1 Corinthians 9:27
but I pummel my body and lead it as a slave, so that after I have preached to others, I myself should not become disapproved somehow.


Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already received it or am already made perfect, but I am pressing on to see if I may also lay hold on [/b]that for which Christ Jesus selected me.
13 Brothers[b], I do not yet consider myself as having taken hold of it; but one thing is certain: Forgetting the things behind and stretching forward to the things ahead
14 I am pressing on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God by means of Christ Jesus.

Kingsnairaland:
1 Corinthians 9:27..
I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.


I’ve heard people use the verse above to sow fear and insecurity into the hearts of God’s children. They say, “If the mighty apostle Paul was worried about disqualification, you should be too!”

Well, okay, but if that’s what you’re going to preach, then preach the whole verse, not just the end. Tell people they need to buffet their bodies to stay qualified and then turn your church into a gym. Forget about the cross – you’ve gotta sign up for CrossFit!

What a sad joke.

I hope you can see that Paul is speaking metaphorically. In fact, he is comparing the Christian race to running in the Olympics:

Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. (1 Cor 9:24-25)

If you conclude from this passage that not every Christian will make it – some will be disqualified – then you must be consistent and say, “only one gets the prize.” In other words, only one Christian will win this race. And since that will probably be Paul himself, or maybe Reinhard Bonnke, the rest of us might as well give up now.

Of course Paul is not saying that! His point is that just as runners are motivated, so are we. In fact, we should be more so, not because 99% of us are going to fail, but because we’re in this for an eternal crown that lasts forever

Now here’s the important bit – the bit where the metaphor breaks down: we don’t get the crown because we run well, rather we run well because there’s a crown in store for us. Paul makes this clear in the next verse:

Therefore I run thus: not with uncertainty. (1 Cor 9:26, NKJV)

Sadly, many Christians are running with uncertainty and insecurity. Will I make it? Will I finish? Not Paul. He ran with certainty and purpose. Many Christians are aimless and worried about disqualification, but Paul ran with a clear and certain purpose.

How can we lose?
Now that we see that Paul is not threatening the saint’s salvation, we can ask, What is the disqualification that Paul is referring to? The context of this passage is Paul’s rights as an apostle and preacher of the gospel:

Yet when I preach the gospel, I cannot boast, for I am compelled to preach. Woe to me if I do not preach the gospel! If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. (1 Cor 9:16-17)

The Corinthians hadn’t been generous in supporting Paul’s ministry and Paul’s response is two-fold: (1) I have a right to receive material support from you (see verses 3-12, 13-14), and (2) I happily waive this right if doing so promotes the gospel (see verse 12, 15)

It’s a delicate subject, this business of paying preachers, but Paul’s words reveal something splendid about his heart for the lost:

Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law… To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. (1 Cor 9:19-22

And then, just in case we might miss the point, Paul plainly states his motive:

I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it. (1 Cor 9:23, NASB)

This is a very important scripture and you may want to check it out it in your own Bible. Note that some translations omit the word fellow but that’s the key word. Paul isn’t travelling around the world and preaching to Jews, slaves, and the weak to become a partaker of the gospel – he’s already a partaker – but to become a fellow-partaker. He’s doing it because he wants to share the blessings of the gospel with others:

And I do this for the sake of the good news (the Gospel), in order that I may… share in its [blessings along with you]. (1 Cor 9:23, AMP)

The Corinthians were stingy but Paul wasn’t worried about the money. As long as he got to preach and lead people to Jesus, that was reward enough. Jesus died for people not money and Paul wanted to make sure Jesus got what he paid for:

For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you? Indeed, you are our glory and joy. (1 Th 2:19-20)

To re-cap: Paul is not saying we can be disqualified or lose our salvation anymore than he is saying we are saved by going to the gym. He’s speaking metaphorically.
Unlike Olympic runners, our crowns are assured – all in Christ win because Christ has already won...


Glory to God.

Kingsnairaland:
John 4:34 ►

New International Version
“My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

New Living Translation
Then Jesus explained: “My nourishment comes from doing the will of God, who sent me, and from finishing his work.

I already told you Jesus (free) will
Is God will

Jesus has a free will
But that free will is to do the free will of God..

How many times will I tell you.

Aemmyjah:
When you are able to bring out concise or pointed reasoning, pls tag me
I can't be reading sermons

Aemmyjah:
Good
So Jesus demonstration of love and obedience to God was not automatic right?

Kingsnairaland:
You are just crafty

And you want to twist words

Well
It is you that will decide if
Jesus giving up his will for God will
or doing the will of God... Whether it is automatic...

Aemmyjah:
Jesus had freewill
I agree
💯
Was his obedience to doing God's will automatic?

Kingsnairaland:
Now first Jesus is God almighty so his own is the same will be the same easily with the father... I don't know if automatical is the right word to use here English is interchangeable

Our own have to come from a place of God showing his grace and doing his conviction in our hearts.