₦airaland Forum

safarifarms:
Are those statues your ark?

Meanwhile the ark was a typology in the time past for illustration purpose and creating one today will be same as idol worship.

Hebrews 9:8-9
New International Version
8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper.

Hebrews 9:8-10
The Message
6-10 After this was set up, the priests went about their duties in the large tent. Only the high priest entered the smaller, inside tent, and then only once a year, offering a blood sacrifice for his own sins and the people’s accumulated sins. This was the Holy Spirit’s way of showing with a visible parable that as long as the large tent stands, people can’t just walk in on God. Under this system, the gifts and sacrifices can’t really get to the heart of the matter, can’t assuage the conscience of the people, but are limited to matters of ritual and behavior. It’s essentially a temporary arrangement until a complete overhaul could be made.

You see the ark that you make reference to as instructed by God was an illustrative item just like the tabernacle which does not apply anymore today because the real deal they represented had been fulfilled in the coming of Jesus Christ.

So your use of that to justify statues does not add up

It is not about making excuse for God. Jesus came and practiced as a Jew.

The Ark of the Covenant is not the only statue making instruction found in the Bible.
What about the Bronze Serpent?
What you don't understand

Felimax:
It is not about making excuse for God. Jesus came and practiced as a Jew.

The Ark of the Covenant is not the only statue making instruction found in the Bible.
What about the Bronze Serpent?
What you don't understand

You keep talking as though you are the only one that understands yet you consider what is clearly explained in the new testament as making excuses for God.

The bible explains in the new testament that Moses was made to design copies/replicas of things in heaven to symbolize what was to come (Jesus Christ). Its not my statement or are you saying the bible in the new testament is making excuses for God?

Hebrews 8:5
New International Version
5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

Hebrews 10:1
New International Version
10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Then Jesus came and said that the bronze serpent represented his death on the cross.

John 3:14
King James Version
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

God gave the instruction against idol worship and also gave instructions for replicas of things that are to come that were to be built and it was temporary for the purpose of teaching about Jesus that was to come. After Jesus came all those replicas are no longer needed because the main deal they represented had finally arrived. Buy you choose to use the replicas that were temporary and had expired as an excuse to flout God's instruction claiming you guys are the only ones that understand the Bible?

Very interesting.

safarifarms:
You keep talking as though you are the only one that understands yet you consider what is clearly explained in the new testament as making excuses for God.

The bible explains in the new testament that Moses was made to design copies/replicas of things in heaven to symbolize what was to come (Jesus Christ). Its not my statement or are you saying the bible in the new testament is making excuses for God?

Hebrews 8:5
New International Version
5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

Hebrews 10:1
New International Version
10 The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.

Then Jesus came and said that the bronze serpent represented his death on the cross.

John 3:14
King James Version
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

God gave the instruction against idol worship and also gave instructions for replicas of things that are to come that were to be built and it was temporary for the purpose of teaching about Jesus that was to come. After Jesus came all those replicas are no longer needed because the main deal they represented had finally arrived. Buy you choose to use the replicas that were temporary and had expired as an excuse to flout God's instruction claiming you guys are the only ones that understand the Bible?

Very interesting.

I don't complicate things please.
You just agreed and equally quoted that God instructed the making of images for worship. So what is the argument all about? Did you see any Bronze Serpent people look up to in the Catholic Church?

The church fathers and early Christians ability to communicate was through images and Icons. When you see a cross as a believer you know what it means.

Some of the Apostles are represented in different animals or iconic patterns and they were able to pass on to us the veracity and authentication of what we have in the scriptures.

There is no Catholic Church that does libation to any statue or images. The only image we worship in the Catholic Church is the true FLESH and BLOOD of Jesus Christ under the appearance of Bread and Wine.
We worship the Word of God contained in the Bible hence before a priest reads from it both himself and the congregation will do the incensing together. We worship God alone and venerate other holy figures. This is from a Catholic you have to take it from me.

Because Christ is there in the blessed sacrament of the altar we Catholics adore, worship, venerate the presence of our founder and Triune God in His presence.

If you are not a Catholic please don't bother yourself with what you cannot change. The kind of truth we possess as Catholics no one else does.

Felimax, permit me to take you up on some of your assertions here. Am I permitted? In order not to derail this 'wonderful' thread, I will lift your assertions from here and paste them on a new thread for some analyses. Do you agree?

elated177:
Felimax, permit me to take you up on some of your assertions here. Am I permitted? In order not to derail this 'wonderful' thread, I will lift your assertions from here and paste them on a new thread for some analyses. Do you agree?

So long they are not distorted or taken out of context. Granted!

Felimax:
I don't complicate things please.
You just agreed and equally quoted that God instructed the making of images for worship. So what is the argument all about? Did you see any Bronze Serpent people look up to in the Catholic Church?

The church fathers and early Christians ability to communicate was through images and Icons. When you see a cross as a believer you know what it means.

Some of the Apostles are represented in different animals or iconic patterns and they were able to pass on to us the veracity and authentication of what we have in the scriptures.

There is no Catholic Church that does libation to any statue or images. The only image we worship in the Catholic Church is the true FLESH and BLOOD of Jesus Christ under the appearance of Bread and Wine.
We worship the Word of God contained in the Bible hence before a priest reads from it both himself and the congregation will do the incensing together. We worship God alone and venerate other holy figures. This is from a Catholic you have to take it from me.

Because Christ is there in the blessed sacrament of the altar we Catholics adore, worship, venerate the presence of our founder and Triune God in His presence.

If you are not a Catholic please don't bother yourself with what you cannot change. The kind of truth we possess as Catholics no one else does.

Yes I'm not catholic and cannot understand why Catholics ignore clear instruction on what not to do and use an instruction of what to do temporarily as the bases for doing so.

If you were making bronze serpents or building arks I think I would have understood you better and at least it shows you guys have interest in following biblical instructions and it would be easy to show you why you shouldn't build it anymore.

Exodus 20:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Meanwhile while you try to focus on the worship part of the instructions and claim you don't worship, there's more to it;

1. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form.
2. You shall not bow down to them.

You've carefully avoided talking about those ones.

I'm not expecting you guys to change a tradition that you've followed for decades if not centuries. Besides you are not in position to change it as you are not the Pope.

The question was why? Just like the op, I was just curious and wish to hear how your leaders defend that to you guys. But all you have to say is you guys understand the bible better and quote a portion that said they should build something else which you are not building.

It was nice chatting with you. At least you were more civilized than the other guy.

Have a nice day.

God bless you.

safarifarms:
Yes I'm not catholic and cannot understand why Catholics ignore clear instruction on what not to do and use an instruction of what to do temporarily as the bases for doing so.

If you were making bronze serpents or building arks I think I would have understood you better and at least it shows you guys have interest in following biblical instructions and it would be easy to show you why you shouldn't build it anymore.

Exodus 20:
4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

Meanwhile while you try to focus on the worship part of the instructions and claim you don't worship, there's more to it;

1. You shall not make for yourself an image in the form.
2. You shall not bow down to them.

You've carefully avoided talking about those ones.

I'm not expecting you guys to change a tradition that you've followed for decades if not centuries. Besides you are not in position to change it as you are not the Pope.

The question was why? Just like the op, I was just curious and wish to hear how your leaders defend that to you guys. But all you have to say is you guys understand the bible better and quote a portion that said they should build something else which you are not building.

It was nice chatting with you. At least you were more civilized than the other guy.

Have a nice day.

God bless you.

Calm down bro!
Nobody is a Catholic because of the Pope or Religious of the Church. It's quite funny sha.

Listen, there is hardly any sincere Catholic who has not gone through a tough faith crisis. Even priest, bishops and other high ranking officers of the church must at a point in their religious life go through a thorough faith crisis and that is what makes it so unique. At times some of your questions even the Pope may not be able to convince you or explain to you beyond reasonable doubt and in most cases that is where you see the Spirit at work in His Divine upliftment and enlightenment.

The answers will be fallen into your head and you will know you don't deserve it but it will be happening. For me it is when the Eucharist is exposed or raised, sometimes it will almost seem as if there are people in my mind. It was then I discovered that the Spirit of Understanding is another gift of His own. It's a very powerful experience.

Catholics have very potent admiration, humility and submissiveness towards anything that has to do with God. No priest, will ever tell you to bow to any statue or worship them but yes you see Catholics doing this often, it has nothing to do with bowing down to an image or worshipping. It is in veneration of the person that icon represent.

You won't understand how deep this is and that is why I drew your attention to the Bronze Serpent and Statues of the Cherubims. By that I was trying to make you understand that the people of God saw God's mercy and power through those items. Those things are not God but His healing and power was greatly manifested throughout those images and it was nothing to Him.

If the image of Jesus is not important He will not leave His facial impression on the cloth Veronica used in wiping His face. Think about that for a while. Do you know the number of healings and miracles the church has experienced and still experiencing with that veil? Till date it is still there with the church.

Take this home and sorry for my long write up. The presence of Christ in the form of Bread and Wine is equally an image and it is the focal point of everything Catholic. We believe it is nothing but the real Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ and each time we approach Him in that sacrament our lives has always be renewed.
That on its own to a man who is far from Divine understanding is idolatry.

Conclusively, if it is instituted and instructed by God Himself it will never be a sin. God gave a list of animals the Jews must not eat and still came back and instructed Peter to eat them all.

Try and understand! May you be filled with the Divine Spirit of Understanding.

immortalcrown:
are you not fooling yourself here? December who you claim to use to judge the Catholic explains that Mary was chosen because she is of the right lineage. The Bible saying that Mary is of the right lineage means that some other women are not from the right lineage. In the world, not every family is treated as a royal family Because not every family produces a king for the community. This explains why Mary is respected. On the side of Joseph, he is honoured but not as much as Mary is honoured. There is an obvious reason for that. Joseph didn't marry Mary until after the conception of Jesus Christ.

And why is Mary not in heaven?

Biglittlelois:
Where in the bible was it specifically said that females are not in heaven and everyone there are males? The book, chapter and verse please.

The regular bible you use is not complete.

Look out for the book of scofield

Alright, Felimax. I will open the thread.

tiswell:
The regular bible you use is not complete.

Look out for the book of scofield

Immortals don't reproduce offspring the issue of sex may not be necessary.

I don't think in afterlife people will be segmented or identified by their sex organ.

Going by your assertions below, I will be drawing some questions from them.
Here is the first one.

1. What did the Ark of the Covenant represent?

Felimax:
It is not about making excuse for God. Jesus came and practiced as a Jew.

The Ark of the Covenant is not the only statue making instruction found in the Bible.
What about the Bronze Serpent?
What you don't understand

Not here.

tiswell:
Catholics and their religious dogma.

Mary is not purer than my own mother,besides,why is Joseph,the father of Jesus not immortalized,even when he endured the fact that his wife got impregnated through mysterious means?

Are you a Christian?

Felimax:
Calm down bro!
Nobody is a Catholic because of the Pope or Religious of the Church. It's quite funny sha.

Listen, there is hardly any sincere Catholic who has not gone through a tough faith crisis. Even priest, bishops and other high ranking officers of the church must at a point in their religious life go through a thorough faith crisis and that is what makes it so unique. At times some of your questions even the Pope may not be able to convince you or explain to you beyond reasonable doubt and in most cases that is where you see the Spirit at work in His Divine upliftment and enlightenment.

The answers will be fallen into your head and you will know you don't deserve it but it will be happening. For me it is when the Eucharist is exposed or raised, sometimes it will almost seem as if there are people in my mind. It was then I discovered that the Spirit of Understanding is another gift of His own. It's a very powerful experience.

Catholics have very potent admiration, humility and submissiveness towards anything that has to do with God. No priest, will ever tell you to bow to any statue or worship them but yes you see Catholics doing this often, it has nothing to do with bowing down to an image or worshipping. It is in veneration of the person that icon represent.

You won't understand how deep this is and that is why I drew your attention to the Bronze Serpent and Statues of the Cherubims. By that I was trying to make you understand that the people of God saw God's mercy and power through those items. Those things are not God but His healing and power was greatly manifested throughout those images and it was nothing to Him.

If the image of Jesus is not important He will not leave His facial impression on the cloth Veronica used in wiping His face. Think about that for a while. Do you know the number of healings and miracles the church has experienced and still experiencing with that veil? Till date it is still there with the church.

Take this home and sorry for my long write up. The presence of Christ in the form of Bread and Wine is equally an image and it is the focal point of everything Catholic. We believe it is nothing but the real Flesh and Blood of Jesus Christ and each time we approach Him in that sacrament our lives has always be renewed.
That on its own to a man who is far from Divine understanding is idolatry.

Conclusively, if it is instituted and instructed by God Himself it will never be a sin. God gave a list of animals the Jews must not eat and still came back and instructed Peter to eat them all.

Try and understand! May you be filled with the Divine Spirit of Understanding.

Well, I've decided to leave you guys with your practices and traditions. I'll never understand how very clear instructions without counter instructions should not be obeyed. As per the unclean animals that Peter was later told to kill and eat, its still part of the typology that ceases to have relevance since Christ came. The counter instruction to Peter clearly indicates the end to that.

But the making of images, just like instructions not to commit adultery has no counter instruction.

I'm very deliberate in avoiding to talk about the some of the other things you've added to the discussion (like the Veronica cloth etc), those are beyond the scope of the thread.

God bless you

safarifarms:
Well, I've decided to leave you guys with your practices and traditions. I'll never understand how very clear instructions without counter instructions should not be obeyed. As per the unclean animals that Peter was later told to kill and eat, its still part of the typology that ceases to have relevance since Christ came. The counter instruction to Peter clearly indicates the end to that.

But the making of images, just like instructions not to commit adultery has no counter instruction.

I'm very deliberate in avoiding to talk about the some of the other things you've added to the discussion (like the Veronica cloth etc), those are beyond the scope of the thread.

God bless you

Bless you too!

tiswell:
And why is Mary not in heaven?

Where is she?

Felimax:
What are the items in the Ark of the Covenant?
Who instructed that images be calved?
Was the Ark of the Covenant an Item for worship?
Do Jews see God through the Ark of the Covenant?
Why so?

Now you are using the Ark of Covenant.

The golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant are the items in the ark. No point here.

Felimax:
Was the Ark of the Covenant an Item for worship?

No it was not.

The people could not even see it as it was kept in the tarbanacle.

The tarbanacle they could not even enter, they got only to the door and gathered round it's perimeters

So they did not have the opportunity of worshiping the ark not the tabernacle.

Felimax:
Do Jews see God through the Ark of the Covenant?
Why so?

They already knew they had God with them via the pillar of fire/cloud even before the tabernacle so no point here.

And in all these we do not see the jews worshipping and having any images of these things in their tents and houses not bowing down to them , so you have nothing here.

immortalcrown:
The way some people believe that the power of God is in Church stickers is how the Catholics believe that God is present around statue....

In direct disobedience of God Who Clearly Commanded that "No Image/statue/photograph of Him or any of His Things under heaven should be made or even bowed to"

It is even crazy that this clearly shows that He knew the ways of people and He clearly prohibited it, yet Catholics disobey.

And they thiink that they shall escape hellfire!

Anyway it's their death!

Dtruthspeaker:
Now you are using the Ark of Covenant.

The golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant are the items in the ark. No point here.



No it was not.

The people could not even see it as it was kept in the tarbanacle.

The tarbanacle they could not even enter, they got only to the door and gathered round it's perimeters

So they did not have the opportunity of worshiping the ark not the tabernacle.



They already knew they had God with them via the pillar of fire/cloud even before the tabernacle so no point here.

And in all these we do not see the jews worshipping and having any images of these things in their tents and houses not bowing down to them , so you have nothing here.

How you craftily avoid avoid the image of the Cherubims!
How you craftily ignored the fact that the Ark of the Covenant is only an item yet possess such great powers that could leave a man dead when he is unholy.
You quickly forgot that it was the same God who instructed and gave the template on how the Ark should be designed.

Like it or not the Ark of the Covenant represent the power of God and it's highly venerated.

Oga oya, dismantle the Bronze Serpent?

Felimax:
How you craftily avoid avoid the image of the Cherubims!
How you craftily ignored the fact that the Ark of the Covenant is only an item yet possess such great powers that could leave a man dead when he is unholy.
You quickly forgot that it was the same God who instructed and gave the template on how the Ark should be designed.

Like it or not the Ark of the Covenant represent the power of God and it's highly venerated.

Oga oya, dismantle the Bronze Serpent?

Is the cherubims not part of the Ark? And you even said "What are the items in the Ark of the Covenant?" NOT ON TOP OF THE ARK.

So, no point here.

Secondly, none of these shows were the jews were worshiping and bowing to the ark or the cherubims. They could not even see it nor come near the tabernacle where it stays.

Neither did they make any images of it in their tents and houses

So, you people are just looking for God's wrath to fall on you just like those who made the golden calf and worshipped it. Like the golden calf worshippers you people are headed for destruction.

Dtruthspeaker:
In direct disobedience of God Who Clearly Commanded that "No Image/statue/photograph of Him or any of His Things under heaven should be made or even bowed to"

Quote the bible chapter, let us read it together to see if you are right. I mean, the chapter, not just one verse.

Meanwhile, your response is a total offpoint in relation to my comment. I never said anywhere that the Catholic worships images. The Catholic does not worship any image. The Catholic only uses images as a symbols of the presence of God and bow to the God whose presence is felt around the images. When Pentecostal people pray, they raise handkerchief or hold someone and call it a point of contact, that is what the Catholic uses image to do.

immortalcrown:
Quote the bible chapter, let us read it together to see if you are right. I mean, the chapter, not just one verse.

Meanwhile, your response is not inline with my comment.

Did The Commandment prohibiting the making and worshiping of an image span a whole chapter? No. Only Verses which Lawyers would call "Section 2 of The Laws of God of the Federal Republic of the Earth'

And you know them e.g.
Exodus 20:4
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Leviticus 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your Go

And you people have plenty of standing images made of stones in likeness of things under the earth which you bow down to and kiss and worship.

Deuteronomy 4:16
Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (una Mary and St. this and St. that don put you for God's hot oil here)

You read the Bible haphazardly and that's why you misinterpret the Bible. Each chapter of the Bible is about a specific context. If you pick just one verse, you will likely misinterpret the verse and apply it to unrelated context.

Dtruthspeaker:
Exodus 20:4
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

This chapter is where God instructs Israelites on what to do to inherit the promised land. In the verse 4 you mentioned here, God warns Israelites not to worship the gods of their land. The verse 4 does not go against the Catholic practice because the Catholic neither worships gods nor bows to them. Isn't the verse about worshiping idols? Or, is Mary an idol? Answer these questions.

Bowing to Mary is not idolatry. Solomon didn’t offer worship to his mother when he bowed before her in 1 Kings 2:19. Bowing can’t be idolatrous in and of itself, because God commands that it be directed to finite beings. For example, in Revelation 3:9 Jesus says that he will make “those of the synagogue of Satan” “bow down” before the feet of the Christians in Philadelphia. If bowing before another were an act of worship, then Jesus would be commanding idolatry. It’s possible that someone who bows before a statue of Mary might offer the statue, or Mary herself, worship. But the idolatry would not be due to the act of bowing. It would be due to the intentional offering of worship; like in the case of Cornelius who bowed before Peter and worshipped him (Acts 10:25-26).

Dtruthspeaker:
Leviticus 26:1
Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God

Leviticus 26 is still about God's instructions to Israelites against idols. Open your dictionary for the meaning of "graven". The image of Mary is not graven because Mary is not an Idol. If the image of Mary is graven, it means that the picture of your parent or your grandparent is graven and that the parent is an idol.

Dtruthspeaker:
And you people have plenty of standing images made of stones in likeness of things under the earth which you bow down to and kiss and worship.

Mention any idol whose image is bowed to or worshiped in the Catholic Church.

Dtruthspeaker:
Deuteronomy 4:16
Lest ye corrupt [yourselves], and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (una Mary and St. this and St. that don put you for God's hot oil here

In this Deuteronomy 4, Moses advises the same Israelites to obey all the instructions given to them by God. Read the verse 4 to see that Moses is the one reminding the people of God's warnings and instructions. The images spoken of in the verse 16 are those of gods, the gods spoken of in the books of Leviticus and Exodus. Or, are you saying that Moses added his own opinion while speaking to the Israelites in the Deuteronomy 4? Or, do you want to claim that God is the one who directly repeats himself and introduces "the similitude of any figure" in the Deuteronomy 4?

Make una dey try read the Bible carefully. No use laziness read the Bible haphazardly and begin commit fallacies.

Dtruthspeaker:
Is the cherubims not part of the Ark? And you even said "What are the items in the Ark of the Covenant?" NOT ON TOP OF THE ARK.

So, no point here.

Secondly, none of these shows were the jews were worshiping and bowing to the ark or the cherubims. They could not even see it nor come near the tabernacle where it stays.

Neither did they make any images of it in their tents and houses

So, you people are just looking for God's wrath to fall on you just like those who made the golden calf and worshipped it. Like the golden calf worshippers you people are headed for destruction.

How best do you identify a demon! Bro, I beg face front.
Stop spitting on my body!

Catholic wey your generations go die leave. Be killing yourself for God. Just do your best to tame your demon. You are already sounding like a Lunatic.

Don't mention me again!
May thunder strike you dead if you mention me again and if the demon in you will not let you stay without mentioning me then go and hug transformer.

BOSSkesh:
It’s called reverence not worship

It’s just like when you’re greeting someone greater,older,richer than you, you bow as a sign of respect or curtesy
So you bow not to worship but bow to pay respect

Also you don’t ”pray to” Mary or Joseph or any of the saints you pray through them because you believe they are in heaven so they can drop your prayers and petitions directly at the feet of God

The lord is interesting

Firstly,they bow 🙇🏾‍♂️ to idols.
Secondly,Mary and Joseph no dey work for NIPOST.
Christ admonished us to come boldly to the throne of grace and obtain mercy.
He is the way,the truth and life.
Mary was never and will never be the way,same with Strongman Joe and others.

Felimax:
How best do you identify a demon! Bro, I beg face front.
Stop spitting on my body!

Catholic wey your generations go die leave. Be killing yourself for God. Just do your best to tame your demon. You are already sounding like a Lunatic.

Don't mention me again!
May thunder strike you dead if you mention me again and if the demon in you will not let you stay without mentioning me then go and hug transformer.

See! You can't defend your crimes like King Saul could not and rather than fear God and flee from His Wrath you take to abusing me. Well, it's your right to choose God's death and Wrath.

immortalcrown:
This chapter is where God instructs Israelites on what to do to inherit the promised land....]

Is this how you twisted the bible just like jws do to suit your wishes and cover your sins?

When you inteprete and say "God warns Israelites not to worship the gods of their land." Do you mean that they can worship Sango since it is from a foreign land?

And this is even outside the point of you showing that God Said "make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth and bow down thyself to them."

So you have given no answer.

immortalcrown:
...1 Kings 2:19. L/Revelation 3:9

Here, Solomon greeted his mother her exactly how well trained children do and this he did to his mother while she was living. AND HE DID NOT MAKE AN IMAGE OF HER TO BOW DOWN TO HER WHEN SHE WAS DEAD IN COMPLIAMCE WITH WHAT GOD COMMANDED.

So you have nothing here whereas, Nebuchadnezzar made an image and the God fearing Jews Shredrach. Meshach, and Abednego did not now to it and God honoured them even though they were in a foreign land.

While Revelation 3:9 clearly means defeat and conquering of Satan which every one knows but you are perverting it cover your sins.

And in Acts 10:25-26 Peter himself quickly stopped Cornelius from committing this sin of bowing down and worshiping him, so again you have no defence.

You people just like jws are just looking for God's Wrath to fall on you, like the people who bowed down to the golden calf.

Dtruthspeaker:
Is this how you twisted the bible just like jws do to suit your wishes and cover your sins?

When you inteprete and say "God warns Israelites not to worship the gods of their land." Do you mean that they can worship Sango since it is from a foreign land?

And this is even outside the point of you showing that God Said "make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth and bow down thyself to them."

So you have given no answer.


Here, Solomon greeted his mother her exactly how well trained children do and this he did to his mother while she was living. AND HE DID NOT MAKE AN IMAGE OF HER TO BOW DOWN TO HER WHEN SHE WAS DEAD IN COMPLIAMCE WITH WHAT GOD COMMANDED.

So you have nothing here whereas, Nebuchadnezzar made an image and the God fearing Jews Shredrach. Meshach, and Abednego did not now to it and God honoured them even though they were in a foreign land.

While Revelation 3:9 clearly means defeat and conquering of Satan which every one knows but you are perverting it cover your sins.

And in Acts 10:25-26 Peter himself quickly stopped Cornelius from committing this sin of bowing down and worshiping him, so again you have no defence.

You people just like jws are just looking for God's Wrath to fall on you, like the people who bowed down to the golden calf.

All the verses you quoted speak against the worship of idols, graven images and humans. Four simple questions:

1.
Is Mary an idol?

2.
Is the image of your father or grandfather a graven image?

3.
If bowing down means worshipping, why haven't yoruba pastors that lead penticostalism in Nigeria condemned the Yoruba culture of bowing to greet?

4.
I quoted a bible verse where Jesus Christ told some people they would be made to bow to Christians. I asked you if Jesus preached idolatry in the verse. Why did you avoid the question in your response?

Answer these four questions, let's know who is twisting the Bible.

immortalcrown:
Four simple questions:
1.
Is Mary an idol?

Mary"a Shrine in Maryland, Lagos and all the Mary little shrines you have in almost all Catholic churches says so.

And shrine even means
www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › shrine
/ʃraɪn/ · noun. a[b] place of worship[/b] hallowed by association with some sacred thing or person e.g. Mary, Tansi,

www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com › shrine
1a place where people come to worship because it is connected with a holy person or event shrine (to somebody/something) a shrine to the Virgin Mary.

And here are your people bowing down and worshipping her as
https://www.nairaland.com/5573290/evidence-catholics-worship-mary#84773968

Up to the point that you people have a very slpecific chant for her.

Men you guys love death and God's punishment.

immortalcrown:
F
2.
Is the image of your father or grandfather a graven image?

Off point. The topic is your Catholic idols and your worship of them. So nothinghere for you.

immortalcrown:
F
3.
If bowing means worshipping, why haven't Yoruba pastors that lead Penticostalism in Nigeria condemned the Yoruba culture of bowing to greet?

Because everyone in the whole world sees that they are just merely greeting and respecting the living person and not worshiping him whereas all over the world you Catholics have been warned that you are worshipping idols exactly like Ifa priests an Oro worshippers.

So nothing here for you.

immortalcrown:
F
4.
I quoted a bible verse where Jesus Christ told some people they would be made to bow to Christians. I asked you if Jesus preached idolatry in the verse. Why did you avoid the question in your response?.

And I replied saying everyone knows that it means defeat and conquering , so nothingfor you here.

And meanwhile everyone can see thst you have now abandoned Solomon's mother 1 Kings 2:19.And Peter's prevention of Cornelius from worshipping him as God Commanded which you were trying to use to defend your son but now you see that you can't

Just like your other brother, felixmax who went crazy and started insulting me because he could not defend it, so also can you not defend it. Not even the pope or the Vatican can defend it.

You are all just looking for God's Anger just like your anticatholic brothers who call themselves jws

It does not make sense for a person to be seeing a tsunami yet he drives towards it. Clear case of whom The Lord wants to destroy, he first makes mad

You sentimentally misinterpret things a lot. You started with Bible quotations. Now that you have realized you can't use the Bible to prove your point, you have begun to use online dictionaries and webpages. No wahala. I go follow you to any direction you want. But ensure you use credible web sources, not web contents published by sentimentalists. You citing an article published on Nairaland is very funny. Does the poater of that content know Catholic doctrines or does the poster worship in the Catholic Church? If I want to judge you and your Church, I will use your Church doctrines and what your Church leaders do. I will not use conspiracy theories from the haters of your Church to judge your Church. I won't even use what members (not leaders) of your Church do, because many of those members might be misrepresenting your Church. Many Catholics misreprent Catholics and cannot explain things to you the way I do here. So, try to use credible sources in this conversation.

Dtruthspeaker:
Mary"a Shrine in Maryland, Lagos and all the Mary little shrines you have in almost all Catholic churches says so. And shrine even means
www.vocabulary.com › dictionary › shrine
/ʃraɪn/ · noun. a[b] place of worship[/b] hallowed by association with some sacred thing or person e.g. Mary, Tansi,

Yes, shrine is a place of worship. But does the definition you linked here say that any place of worship called shrine is only for an idol? A shrine can be for an idol or for God. Try to visit places or use Google search to confirm that some Catholic shrines have the image of St. Paul or St. Peter or St. Joseph or any other saint or a Christian martyr, not the image of Mary. Some Catholic shrines having the images of other saints or martyrs instead of the image of Mary proves that the Catholics do not worship Mary. You can simply use Google to find out that some Catholic shrines have the image of other saints or Christian martyrs instead of the image of Mary. Or, do you now want to claim that the Catholics worship St. Paul or St. Peter?

Dtruthspeaker:
www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com › shrine
1a place where people come to worship because it is connected with a holy person or event shrine (to somebody/something) a shrine to the Virgin Mary

Does this say Mary is the one people come to worship in those places? You go to Church to worship on Sundays because your fellow worshipers are there. This doesn't mean those fellow worshipers are the ones you go to Church to worship. That people go to worship God where the image of Mary is kept does not mean Mary is the one those people worship. Otherwise, the images of your pastors on your cars or in your homes means the pastor is the one you worship.

Dtruthspeaker:
And here are your people bowing down and worshipping her as
https://www.nairaland.com/5573290/evidence-catholics-worship-mary#84773968
Up to the point that you people have a very slpecific chant for her.

Does this definition tell you that every shrine is for an idol? Or, does this definition tell you that bowing to a person means worshipping the person?

Dtruthspeaker:
Off point. The topic is your Catholic idols and your worship of them. So nothinghere for you.

The Catholic does not worship Mary. Whoever tells you that the Catholic worships Mary is a great liar.

Dtruthspeaker:
Because everyone in the whole world sees that they are just merely greeting and respecting the living person and not worshiping him whereas all over the world you Catholics have been warned that you are worshipping idols exactly like Ifa priests an Oro worshippers.

Their own greeting is not idol worship but Mary's own is idol worship? Please, explain how bowing to a Yoruba person is not idol worship but bowing to Mary is idol worship.

Dtruthspeaker:
And I replied saying everyone knows that it means defeat and conquering , so nothingfor you here.

Do you mean to say that Jesus wants defeated people to worship humans? Answer this question.

Dtruthspeaker:
And meanwhile everyone can see thst you have now abandoned Solomon's mother 1 Kings 2:19.And Peter's prevention of Cornelius from worshipping him as God Commanded which you were trying to use to defend your son but now you see that you can't

I just felt it is a waste of time to repeat that part since you failed to prove that Solomon's bow to his mother is a worship to her. Peter didn't say Cornelius worshipped him in the verse. Peter just said, "I am just a human", which means he doesn't want so much honour. In today's world, some people act like Peter in that verse by being repulsive when they are thanked for doing good. If you tell some people "Thank you", they will say "Thank God". This means you should direct the thanks to God. Now, does it mean that telling someone "Thank you" means worshipping the person? Please, did Peter say that bowing to human means worshipping the human?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Council_of_Nicaea#:~:text=It%20met%20in%20AD%20787,III%20(717%E2%80%93741).

It was the second council of Nicea that reintroduced the use of icons...after being suppressed. Read about it...

Felimax:
Because what Catholics understand in the Canons no one else does.

Because the Catholic Church remains the Pillar and Foundation of Truth.

Think about this for a minute.
The millions of Catholic elites, the early Christians and fathers of the church, the Apostles cannot all be wrong.

There is no where in the world where Catholics do libations or ritual to any image.

Shalom!

do you actually believe the bolded? or your definition of rituals is killing white cock & sprinkling its blood. have you ever gone for a procession during the feast of the assumption? what is this pics below I witnessed one such procession in Auchi, I was with my Muslim friends and they all screamed when they saw the procession. incense was being burned and being offered to the statue, if that's not worship then what is?