Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

When a pastor make an altar call, that church members should come out and give their lives to Christ, it shows how ignorant and deficient in scriptures the pastor has made himself to be. As a pastor, you either call out church members to repent of their sin, or to renew their commitment in church, or for communion ,etc

Therefore engaging in evangelism as Paul the apostle and other early Christians did, entails bringing a non Christian into the kingdom.
Not bringing someone who is already a Christian that is committing sin.

Though, repentance was part of their preaching, but it was never a requirement to be a Christian.

Who is an unbeliever?
An unbeliever is someone that does not believe

Examples of non Christians are Muslims, atheists, judaists, traditionalists, etc
Take note that these people can be morally upright as Christians too.

Meaning of the word TO CONVERT someone

The Oxford dictionary defines the word CONVERT as the definite and decisive adoption of another religion

This implies that when a Christian preaches to a Muslim for example, about Christ, and the Muslim begins to adopt Christianity, then the Christian has converted the Muslim.
Not a Christian preaching to a Christian.
.

paxonel:
Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

Correct!

Who is a Christian?

Was John the Baptist a born again Christian?

Were Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc born Again Christians?

Was Jesus a born again Christian?

No! No! No!

Yes

paxonel:
Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

When a pastor make an altar call, that church members should come out and give their lives to Christ, it shows how ignorant and deficient in scriptures the pastor has made himself to be. As a pastor, you either call out church members to repent of their sin, or to renew their commitment in church, or for communion ,etc

Therefore engaging in evangelism as Paul the apostle and other early Christians did, entails bringing a non Christian into the kingdom.
Not bringing someone who is already a Christian that is committing sin.

Though, repentance was part of their preaching, but it was never a requirement to be a Christian.

Who is an unbeliever?
An unbeliever is someone that does not believe

Examples of non Christians are Muslims, atheists, judaists, traditionalists, etc
Take note that these people can be morally upright as Christians too.

Meaning of the word TO CONVERT someone

The Oxford dictionary defines the word CONVERT as the definite and decisive adoption of another religion

This implies that when a Christian preaches to a Muslim for example, about Christ, and the Muslim begins to adopt Christianity, then the Christian has converted the Muslim.
Not a Christian preaching to a Christian.
.

But not everyone who is in church is a Christian. Not everyone who goes to church is a believer. Have you heard that lordreed, and renown atheist on this forum also goes to church every Sunday?

paxonel:
Telling a Christian that he should give his life to Christ is like telling a child of the president or King to become a child of the president or king that he already is..
It amount to a contradiction.

Giving your life to Christ is not the same thing as repentance

When a pastor make an altar call, that church members should come out and give their lives to Christ, it shows how ignorant and deficient in scriptures the pastor has made himself to be. As a pastor, you either call out church members to repent of their sin, or to renew their commitment in church, or for communion ,etc

Therefore engaging in evangelism as Paul the apostle and other early Christians did, entails bringing a non Christian into the kingdom.
Not bringing someone who is already a Christian that is committing sin.

Though, repentance was part of their preaching, but it was never a requirement to be a Christian.

Who is an unbeliever?
An unbeliever is someone that does not believe

Examples of non Christians are Muslims, atheists, judaists, traditionalists, etc
Take note that these people can be morally upright as Christians too.

Meaning of the word TO CONVERT someone

The Oxford dictionary defines the word CONVERT as the definite and decisive adoption of another religion

This implies that when a Christian preaches to a Muslim for example, about Christ, and the Muslim begins to adopt Christianity, then the Christian has converted the Muslim.
Not a Christian preaching to a Christian.
.

Don't be confused, read below. And I don't v appetite for long talks so grab all I say at once if you don't want brain resetting slaps cos I still need to go and cook and prepare for the hee weeek.
So read below:

vdestro:


Correct!

You and the op need to understand that preachers or evangelists just their their jobs randomly to all. If you are a Christian (not a worshipper or Church goer) you ll know the message isn't for you. Giving life to Christ is for those who backslided or haven't done so before. Understand English and meaning of programmes, events etc that warranted such.

AbuTwins:
Who is a Christian?

Was John the Baptist a born again Christian?

Were Moses, Abraham, Noah, etc born Again Christians?

Was Jesus a born again Christian?

No! No! No!

Define who's a Christian and why those alive today must be a Christian.

Goodlady:

Don't be confused, read below. And I don't v appetite for long talks so grab all I say at once if you don't want brain resetting slaps cos I still need to go and cook and prepare for the hee weeek.
So read below:

You and the op need to understand that preachers or evangelists just their their jobs randomly to all. If you are a Christian (not a worshipper or Church goer) you ll know the message isn't for you. Giving life to Christ is for those who backslided or haven't done so before. Understand English and meaning of programmes, events etc that warranted such.

Ok, is that all?

FxMasterz:


But not everyone who is in church is a Christian.

who told you that?
Have you ever see Muslim or atheist going to church?
You are still finding it difficult to define who a Christian is

Not everyone who goes to church is a believer.

lies!
Big lies

A believer is anyone who believes in Christ.

John 3:16 ...whosever believth in him should not perish.

The only reason why you see anyone going to church is because they believe

Have you heard that lordreed, and renown atheist on this forum also goes to church every Sunday?

lordreed case could just be an exception. It's like a true Muslim attending church which is not common.

But most people you see in church are Christians in Ernest, you can't dispute that .

By the way, what's all the altar calls for?
To catch up with one muslim or atheist who possibly is not available among a hundred Christian population in the congregation?

What a hypocritic wild geese chase

paxonel:

Ok, is that all?

Dazz all

paxonel:
who told you that?
Have you ever see Muslim or atheist going to church?
You are still finding it difficult to define who a Christian is
lies!
Big lies

A believer is anyone who believes in Christ.

John 3:16 ...whosever believth in him should not perish.

The only reason why you see anyone going to church is because they believe
lordreed case could just be an exception. It's like a true Muslim attending church which is not common.

But most people you see in church are Christians in Ernest, you can't dispute that

There are several atheists who go to church, I am not really an exception.

LordReed:


There are several atheists who go to church, I am not really an exception.

why then are postors not saying if you know you are an atheist in this church, come out for salvation?

Why are they targeting Christians?

paxonel:
why then are postors not saying if you know you are an atheist in this church, come out for salvation?

Why are they targeting Christians?

LoLz. You think if a pastor says that I will go out? That is not how to appeal to people.

paxonel:
who told you that?
Have you ever see Muslim or atheist going to church?
You are still finding it difficult to define who a Christian is
lies!
Big lies

A believer is anyone who believes in Christ.

John 3:16 ...whosever believth in him should not perish.

The only reason why you see anyone going to church is because they believe
lordreed case could just be an exception. It's like a true Muslim attending church which is not common.

But most people you see in church are Christians in Ernest, you can't dispute that .

By the way, what's all the altar calls for?
To catch up with one muslim or atheist who possibly is not available among a hundred Christian population in the congregation?

What a hypocritic wild geese chase

The case of lordreed is not an exception!

My dad went to church as a Muslim. He married my mum from there. Many Ogbonis are in Church. A lot of witches and people of the occult are in Church! Some robbers go to church too. But according to you, they don't need to give their lives to Christ?

FxMasterz:


The case of lordreed is not an exception!

My dad went to church as a Muslim. He married my mum from there. Many Ogbonis are in Church. A lot of witches and people of the occult are in Church! Some robbers go to church too. But according to you, they don't need to give their lives to Christ?

Most pastors in Nigeria especially don't specify who they are calling out, that's the problem.

What is hard for them to just say emm! Muslims,Ogboni,Witches etc, come out!
Than for them to put a general call where most people coming out were either members of other denominations of Christianity who were invited to church?

The worst is, they make it look as if these people were never Christians at all by tagging them church goers

paxonel:

Most pastors in Nigeria especially don't specify who they are calling out, that's the problem.

What is hard for them to just say emm! Muslims,Ogboni,Witches etc, come out!
Than for them to put a general call where most people coming out were either members of other denominations of Christianity who were invited to church?

The worst is, they make it look as if these people were never Christians at all by tagging them church goers

That's because they know that anyone who is a believer in Christ wouldn't have any conviction of the Holy Ghost to answer an altar call.

Altar calls are for fresh believers in Christ as well as those who want to rededicate their lives to Christ. They usually explain by saying 'If you have not given your life to Christ, come forward". So those who come forward know by themselves that they've not given their lives to Christ. The pastors also add that "If you've given your life to Christ but have not been living for Christ, come forward and rededicate your life to Christ '. They mention the specific categories of people they're inviting to the altar. Then, the Holy Ghost does the conviction.

It's not easy for anyone to answer an altar call except he or she is convicted and propelled by the Holy Ghost.

LordReed:


LoLz. You think if a pastor says that I will go out? That is not how to appeal to people.

So, the aim of these whole thing is to appeal to people, not necessarily to win souls?

paxonel:

Most pastors in Nigeria especially don't specify who they are calling out, that's the problem.

What is hard for them to just say emm! Muslims,Ogboni,Witches etc, come out!
Than for them to put a general call where most people coming out were either members of other denominations of Christianity who were invited to church?

The worst is, they make it look as if these people were never Christians at all by tagging them church goers

LoLz. It's not a problem, you are not using emotional intelligence. If you call out people like that they are not likely to respond because it puts them on the spot. It makes it look like they are being judged. You don't see pastors say if you are a prostitute come out, if youa re an adulterer come out. People will not respond to such, even if they did the people in the congregation are going to look at them funny,guaranteed.

paxonel:



So, the aim of these whole thing is to appeal to people, not necessarily to win souls?

Of course. People respond more emotionally to religious things, that should be clear by now.

LordReed:


LoLz. You think if a pastor says that I will go out? That is not how to appeal to people.

So you go to church? wow

I believe maybe you do it for family reasons huh?

Jackanda1:
So you go to church? wow

I believe maybe you do it for family reasons huh?

Yes. Specifically for my wife, if not for her I wouldn't unless it was maybe a wedding or something like that.

The truth is that there is nothing sensible in telling anyone to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior!

LordReed:


LoLz. It's not a problem, you are not using emotional intelligence. If you call out people like that they are not likely to respond because it puts them on the spot. It makes it look like they are being judged. You don't see pastors say if you are a prostitute come out, if youa re an adulterer come out. People will not respond to such, even if they did the people in the congregation are going to look at them funny,guaranteed.

definitely you are right. I understand what you are saying.
It follows that altar calls are never the right approach to win souls since the pastor cannot determine who exactly among the congregation is unbeliever. Because any attempt to make a general call will also include ignorant believers or Christians whom the church has failed to educate them in that aspect to let them know that they were already saved by virtue of the fact that they were born Christians and were made to believe in Christ from childhood.

So, a better approach to catch up with Non Christians is to preach the word of salvation from the pulpit. If any of them deem it fit or decides to change their religion at that point, will do so quietly, or approach the pastor secretly to inform him that he want to be converted.
This is more appropriate than throwing a random call for salvation to the general congregation. Except their target is to continue deceiving people to make money from their ignorance

FxMasterz:


That's because they know that anyone who is a believer in Christ wouldn't have any conviction of the Holy Ghost to answer an altar call.

Altar calls are for fresh believers in Christ as well as those who want to rededicate their lives to Christ. They usually explain by saying 'If you have not given your life to Christ, come forward". So those who come forward know by themselves that they've not given their lives to Christ. The pastors also add that "If you've given your life to Christ but have not been living for Christ, come forward and rededicate your life to Christ '. They mention the specific categories of people they're inviting to the altar. Then, the Holy Ghost does the conviction.

It's not easy for anyone to answer an altar call except he or she is convicted and propelled by the Holy Ghost.

To you, who is a believer in Christ ?

LordReed:


Yes. Specifically for my wife, if not for her I wouldn't unless it was maybe a wedding or something like that.

Did your wife sometimes encourage you to maintain your atheism since the church cannot change your position?

paxonel:

To you, who is a believer in Christ ?

Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

paxonel:

Did your wife sometimes encourage you to maintain your atheism since the church cannot change your position?

Not really. She hopes going to church will change my mind.

paxonel:
definitely you are right. I understand what you are saying.
It follows that altar calls are never the right approach to win souls since the pastor cannot determine who exactly among the congregation is unbeliever. Because any attempt to make a general call will also include ignorant believers or Christians whom the church has failed to educate them in that aspect to let them know that they were already saved by virtue of the fact that they were born Christians and were made to believe in Christ from childhood.

So, a better approach to catch up with Non Christians is to preach the word of salvation from the pulpit. If any of them deem it fit or decides to change their religion at that point, will do so quietly, or approach the pastor secretly to inform him that he want to be converted.
This is more appropriate than throwing a random call for salvation to the general congregation. Except their target is to continue deceiving people to make money from their ignorance

Or they know that people are emotional and respond to emotional appeals rather than judgemental ones. Check it, most big churches that have altar calls don't preach fire and brimstone often if they do at all.

LordReed:


Or they know that people are emotional and respond to emotional appeals rather than judgemental ones.

Exactly!

Check it, most big churches that have altar calls don't preach fire and brimstone often if they do at all.

primarily, preaching was suppose to be educative. The time was suppose to be used as opportunity to enlighten church members the content of the bible and how the two basic messages of the bible are applied to this present reality which are :
1. Love God with all your heart
2. Love your neighbour as yourself

But unfortunately, they have totally abandoned that mandate to pick up their own personal mandates of distorting from people in the face of a dysfunctional economy

LordReed:


Not really. She hopes going to church will change my mind.

Just go along with her for the sake of love and for the sake of the children. I will do the same if i were in your shoes

FxMasterz:


Romans 10:9-10

"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

let's look at what it means to confess Christ in the context of this scripture.
It does not necessarily mean to confess sin. For instance, if someone is a fornicator it doesn't mean that the person should confess that he is a fornicator. Confession in this context actually mean to be convinced and accept it to the point you can say it out with your mouth that the Jesus that was crucified is the Christ or Messiah(as anticipated by the Israelites of that time).

Don't get me wrong : I'm not saying that confession sin to a Reverend father or a pastor is wrong. But I'm saying that, this is not what the context of that scripture is referring to

Now, do you agree that everyone, especially those that were born and raised by Christian parents have no problem confessing Christ according to this scripture, and therefore they are all saved?

paxonel:


Just go along with her for the sake of love and for the sake of the children. I will do the same if i were in your shoes

Sure, that's what I am doing. Her church is actually nice is some ways. I like the way they help people sometimes.