₦airaland Forum

Mvnster:
Okay maybe Matthew lied, ... prophets even when there is no record of such?

Kobojunkie:
Wow... Matthew lied? How did you arrive at that abeg?

Mvnster:
"Maybe"??

Mvnster:
Okay maybe Matthew lied, but how did your muhammad know Adam and Jacob where muslim prophets even when there is no record of such?

AbuTwins:
Thank you for that question!

Adam and all Prophets were Muslims!
To explain this we need to define who a Muslim is.

One who submits totally to the will of Allah.

All of them submitted to His will! So in that sense they were all Muslims!

Mvnster:
So if i submit to the will of your imaginary allah today i become a prophet of your allah.

Allakaboom

In any case the prophets mentioned in the bible have nothing to do with your islam or your allah created by your prophet muhamad.
Your prophet only copied what he learned from sages and existing scriptures dyring his lifetime to package for you as islam.

AbuTwins:
If you submit as required you'll be a Muslim! You can't be a Prophet!

Are you speaking in tongues?


Mention the sages please?
Mention the existing scriptures he copied especially for many teachings not anywhere in the Bible?

AbuTwins:
If you submit as required you'll be a Muslim! You can't be a Prophet!
Are you speaking in tongues
Mention the sages please?
Mention the existing scriptures he copied especially for many teachings not anywhere in the Bible?

AbuTwins:
Matthew never knew Jesus until his calling in Matthew 9:9
As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.

1. So how did Matthew knew what happened before he met Jesus?

A. Matthew recorded about the magi following a star to where Jesus was as a baby. How did Matthew know this that Luke, Mark and John didn't know it?
B. The Magi were warned in a dream not to go back and report to Herod about Jesus. How did Matthew know the sorcerers dream when they took another route back to their country?
C. How did Matthew know Joseph had a dream to escape with baby Jesus to Egypt? Or was Matthew just trying to make Jesus fulfil a Prophecy?

FOLYKAZE:
Matthew the apostle is not the same as Matthew the gospel writer. As a matter of fact, the cannonical gospel are pseudonym ascribe by the church father Eusebius.

On this note, the Matthew the gospel writer is simply penning down retorted tales as passed down many decades after Jesus has supposedly died. He prolly copied from Q source and gospel of Mark. None of these writers met Jesus or witnessed the incidents they wrote. One can assume they are writing theological fictions

AbuTwins:
Thank you for that question!
Adam and all Prophets were Muslims!
To explain this we need to define who a Muslim is.
One who submits totally to the will of Allah.

All of them submitted to His will! So in that sense they were all Muslims!

OmoGomesIlorin:
Muslims don't submit to the Wills of Allah, except there is another Allah.
Allah has declared Israel as Favoured - Q2:122. There other many passages Allah declare he has give Israel the present land they occupied.

Albeit, the pioneer of Islam leader of Muslim was against them. The generation that out lived the prophet also hate Isreal. To the point of invading, expelling Jews from that land.

How do you want to say Muslims submit to the Wills of Allah?

If you want to point to works of righteousness, the budist doctrine also teach righteousness and ceremony cleansing.

In what special way are Muslims submitting to the will of Allah

MightySparrow:
The Bible is not like Quran. Quran was dictated to Mohammed by Jubril. Many of the people that wrote the Bible books wrote many years after the events. The Synoptic Gospels and Acts of the Apostles fall into this category. Those of us Christians do not have problem with that.

However, when Mohammed rode a donkey to heaven, ascending upon the temple in Jerusalem, which temple?

The Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed by Babylonians in AD70 and another one has not been built since then.

Kobojunkie:
Babalawos, Sorcerers, Magis/Zoroastrans, and all manners of Pagans., are also Muslims by this submission of yours since they too submit to their particular deities as well, right?

Mvnster:
The question is who told your prophet Adam was a prophet?
Mr Abu it is evident your quran is copy of existing materials, mixed with your prophets own ideas.
There are numerous examples of works he copied, allbeit erroneously, like from the infancy gospel of thomas, the talmud.
In essence your quran is muhammad ideas of what true religion should be, and just like other books it has its errors as well, for example mixing mary the mother of jesus with mariam the sister of moses.

As for the Bible, like i said the books were given by inspiration, and that leaves room for human input, wether you accept or not is irrelevant. The purpose is conserved: teaching the Truth, All God requires is for us to show love to our fellow mankind always, and to God as well, do no one harm. Its that simple.
Go read and understand clearly what matthew 12:1-8, and Deut 6 is about.

AbuTwins:
I never said it was like the Qur'an in the first place. You brought the comparison!


Shebi Jesus ascended to heaven without donkey to sit at the right hand of the father? Who saw him sit there? No even go there!


A mosque can not be destroyed! Even if the top structure was destroyed does that stop the landed area from still being a mosque?

AbuTwins:
■ The Bible verse didn't say they submit to Jesus's teaching, ways of salvation, etc.
■ Submission to Allah means you'll accept Him and whatever he commands you to do or not to do!
■ Jesus was worshipped and they even gave him gift! When an idolator goes to the shrine he has to offer something to the gods!
■ Your analogy of comparison is illogical and not rational!

45 “King Nebuchadnezzar, you saw a rock cut from a mountain, but no one cut that rock. The rock broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold to pieces. In this way, God showed you what will happen in the future. The dream is true, and you can trust that this is what it means.”
46 Then King Nebuchadnezzar bowed down in front of Daniel to honor him. The king praised him. He gave an order that an offering and incense be given to honor Daniel.
47 Then the king said to Daniel, “I know for sure your God is the God over all gods and the Lord over all kings. He tells people about things they cannot know. I know this is true because you were able to tell these secret things to me.” - Daniel 2 vs 45 - 48

Kobojunkieee:
1. But they cannot submit to Jesus Christ's teachings, ways of salvation, etc., since the story leads us to knowing they were foreigners — not of the blood of Jacob. So, again, why would you assume submission their particular submission has to do with that though?

Also, I do like the fact that you noted from this example that bowing down to worship another being is merely a superficial act on the part of those who do the bowing. We see this in other cases equally recorded in Scripture including the passage below. Here we have an idol worshipper in the person of Nebuchadnezzar, himself an idol to be worshipped by his people, bowing down to the prophet Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar, even after this act is recorded to have continued worshiping his very own gods. Again, this is to make you see and understand how in Scripture the act of bowing down is merely superficial honor and has not much to do with an act of actual worship of God Himself who can only be worshipped by way of His Law— obedience of the details of commandments that is.

2. That is as far as your Allah though. You fail to make a point the moment you attempt to suggest what applies as far as your Allah ought also to apply where Scripture is concerned. That is a Fail, a non-starter.

3. That's the pagan reasoning, sure, but again, what part of scripture says a Pagan cannot worship one who belongs to God of Israel and even offer gifts though?

4. The only reason the analogies seem illogical is that you keep attempting to subject that which is instead of Scripture to your Islamic — religious — ideals. It never works primarily since the God of Israel — YHWH — has next to nothing in common with the Allah of the Muslims or any other religious entity out there. His, the God of Israel's, Laws are all that His own are required to live by; anything else aside from His Law amounts to Bullsheet.

There is no law, even in the book of Moses, that condemns a foreigner for bowing down to one who belongs to the God of Israel in reverence of Him. There is no law in the book of Moses that condemns the bringing of gifts or honoring of any one of the prophets of God of Israel by a foreigner. There are no laws that pretend that foreigners to the land are to be subjected to the Law of Moses. Your insistence that that which is not of the Law be the case makes your argument all the more ridiculous.

AbuTwins:
■ They were sorcerers and star worshippers! Do they know Jesus to be God? Paul said in 2 Corinthians 6:14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership can righteousness have with wickedness? Or what fellowship does light have with darkness?
■ Yes! The acts of the Magi in the actual sense may not have been worship! They may have just honored Jesus as a human Prophet or King he was meant to be. But since the Biblical translators translated it as worship (to prove Jesus is God) then we have to call it that!
In Genesis 42:6, Joseph's brothers bowed to ground for him as a ruler. This is not called worship! But when the same is done for Jesus, it will be called worship.
■ You brought that part and i had to disconnect you from it. That's that!
■ From the passage of the Magi, do you think they really see Jesus as God to be worshipped? The gifts giving shows dependency just as gods are being worshipped! God is independent of anything! Who can give God directly any gift?
■ You are right! YHWH is one but three whereas Allah is only one! YHWH is the God of Israel while Allah is the God of all that exists! YHWH's laws are solely for Israel whereas Allah's law is for all mankind and Jinn!
■ I agree there is no law if it is only reverence. But when it is worship then, the first commandment is there! The Magi are sorcerers who have no light but darkness! Just as Paul said above in 2 Cor 6:14, what fellowship does light have with darkness?
■ The word translated as "worshipped" is prosekynēsan which means to fawn or crouch to, i.e. prostrate oneself in homage. This is similar to what the brothers of Joseph did above. But the Bible translators used worship just to prove that Jesus is to be worshipped from birth!

1 Jesus was born in the town of Bethlehem in Judea during the time when Herod was king. After Jesus was born, some wise men from the east came to Jerusalem.
2 They asked people, “Where is the child who has been born to be the king of the Jews? We saw the star that shows he was born. We saw it rise in the sky in the east and have come to worship him.”
3 When King Herod heard about this, it upset him as well as everyone else in Jerusalem.
4 Herod called a meeting of all the leading Jewish priests and teachers of the law. He asked them where the Messiah would be born.
5 They answered, “In the town of Bethlehem in Judea, just as the prophet wrote:
6 ‘Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, you are important among the rulers of Judah. Yes, a ruler will come from you, and that ruler will lead Israel, my people.’”
7 Then Herod had a private meeting with the wise men from the east. He learned from them the exact time they first saw the star. 8 Then he sent them to Bethlehem. He said, “Go and look carefully for the child. When you find him, come and tell me. Then I can go worship him too.” - Matthew 2 vs 1 - 7

AbuTwins:
■ Matthew never knew Jesus until his calling in Matthew 9:9
As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.
1. So how did Matthew knew what happened before he met Jesus?
A. Matthew recorded about the magi following a star to where Jesus was as a baby. How did Matthew know this that Luke, Mark and John didn't know it?
B. The Magi were warned in a dream not to go back and report to Herod about Jesus. How did Matthew know the sorcerers dream when they took another route back to their country?
C. How did Matthew know Joseph had a dream to escape with baby Jesus to Egypt? Or was Matthew just trying to make Jesus fulfil a Prophecy?

Kobojunkie:
Mary, the mother of Jesus, is reported to have survived the death of her son, Jesus Christ. And she became a disciple of Jesus Christ even before His death. Reports also indicate that the brothers of Jesus Christ, or at least James, lived for a period after His death. So, the writers most likely had direct access to resources for all the information there.

AbuTwins:
∆ How does this proof Mary knew Jesus was God?
All these your vituperations are just mere opinions without substance.
If Matthew had access to the information from Mary, why didn't Luke, Mark and John have similar access? Luke was a companion of Paul. John even wrote that Jesus while about to die said to his mum "Woman behold your son" and he said to John "behold thy mother"!
When Jesus saw His mother and the disciple whom He loved standing nearby, He said to His mother, “Woman, here is your son.” Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” So from that hour, this disciple took her into his home. John 19:26-27
This was John's report not found in Matthew, Mark and Luke!
Even if we are to reason with your view, Mary started to live with John from the above verse! So John should know better about the Magi incident! But John didn't report it.
So who told Matthew?

Kobojunkie:
So, I was there during the 1 century, before 70 AD, to make decisions for these writers on what they could or could not write about? You never really talk waiting dey bite you. 😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

AbuTwins:
∆ Kobo Kobo!

AbuTwins:
Thank you for that question!

Adam and all Prophets were Muslims!
To explain this we need to define who a Muslim is.

One who submits totally to the will of Allah.

advocatejare:
Stop lying please. Can you show us from the Quran or Hadith where the meaning of a Muslim was given as such?

Kobojunkie:
I am afraid your questions have degraded to even more pathetic levels at this point is all. 🤔🤔🤔🤔

AbuTwins:
Na who told Matthew class we dey not Islamic class!

AbuTwins:
∆ You are the one with the Mumbo Jumbo all around like a kid!