₦airaland Forum

''

oluwaleokey:
Biko... you guys are just pushing me around with these arguments... lets sentiments be put aside and critically analyze who's the best suitable candidate/party to vote considering flexible suitable immigration policies.

Can you just put heads together, to select a candidate that would likely favour immigrants... I wish to vote a "Peter Obi" kinda candidate... if not I would gladly opt to "to-mbom to-mbom" method to cast my vote.

Lib Dems are the Peter Obi candidates in the room.
Obviously doomed, but actually have the most balanced manifesto on offer.
They do believe that only 99.9% of women don't have male Instruments, though.
Can't have it all.

I seem to have sparked off some debate in the group. Good.
Labour believes that everybody has the right to express themselves to the fullest. This includes gender orientation.

It's not up for debate and no one here is surprised by this. It has been official UK policy for a decade or thereabouts.

Where sports is concerned, I go where the science leads me and at the moment , the IOC and world Athletics do not exclude trans women once they have been on hormonal treatment. This position may change depending on new findings.

Let's agree to disagree on this point.

There are other policy areas we should be debating.

Great British Energy, anyone? Housing policy? Let's go,people

kwakudtraveller:
Human angle to the detriment of others. Well done ma 👍🏿

What others? If it benefits people, then I ll support it.

And you will have it.your daughter deserves the absolute best. However, if going to private school, there won't be a discount. Its unfair to discount 7% at the expense of 93%.
If you can afford to do something that only 7% can do, you are not just "normal" people. You are doing very well.
93% of parents cannot do this even if they starve themselves and cut every other expenses.

Peerielass:
This is exactly the same calculation we did and the reason why we agreed to send our daughter. 11 years ago when my daughter was in nursery I was paying circa £1,000 per month. Over a year that’s about £12,000 - private schools fees are within that range. We are by no means rich, just normal folk who want the best for their daughter in an environment where she can thrive and be the best she can.

I wonder if you will say the same if one of the victims is someone close to you.

missjekyll:
I maintain that these cases are not enough.

You are making up those other taxes now. The tories have taxed us to the highest level in 70 years while providing the least value for money ever.at least 70 yrs ago taxes were used for reconstruction after WW2. Where is the outrage on that?

My thoughts exactly!! This policy will mostly affect the middle class earners, who are trying their best to give the best to their kids.

Labour wants everyone to remain under council control. No incentive of increasing income as you will be taxed to death. I wonder how a country will be productive when productivity is being discouraged.

Peerielass:
The trouble with the bolded is that only 1% of private schools fall in the category of Winchester and Eton college. Those type of schools will easily absorb any VAT charge as their clientele are mostly rich kids from abroad and wealthy locals. It’s the smaller independent schools that provide support for SEND kids and provide bursaries and scholarships to thousands of gifted kids from poorer background that would bear the brunt of this policy. This is what Labour fails to understand.

According to you and Labour, anyone that sends their kids to private schools is wealthy. You fail to realise that a lot of parents make huge sacrifices to put their kids through private school by choice. Some people forego holidays, drive old jalopy cars and live in smaller houses just to be able to afford tuition fees whereas some state school parents are driving top of the range cars, live in fancy houses in the best catchment area for grammar schools and are able to holiday in various exotic destinations but according to Labour, these people are not wealthy….it’s the private school parents that are wealthy. Real politics of envy! It costs the Council about £8,000 to educate a child in secondary school. Private school parents are actually saving the government a lot of money by not taking up state school places. Instead they should be given a tax rebate as done in other European countries for saving the government money. What will now become of this your £1billion additional funding if 50% of the pupils in smaller private schools decide to withdraw their kids due to unaffordability, will Labour find spaces for them in oversubscribed states schools and how will the government fund it?

I couldn’t help but laugh at the second bolded. You are speaking from a place of ignorance if you think it’s perfectly ok for a transgender person to share public spaces with women and girls. Google Isla Bryson and see what happened when they were sent to a female prison. All hell broke loose - this is one of the main reasons why Nicola had to quit as SNP leader.

Like I said, each to their own but I will not vote Labour not whilst they are pursuing these policies.

We are already being taxed to death now. Do you want more of the same? I dont.

At least with Labour, i can see where my money is going.(into infrastructure)

dupyshoo:
My thoughts exactly!! This policy will mostly affect the middle class earners, who are trying their best to give the best to their kids.

Labour wants everyone to remain under council control. No incentive of increasing income as you will be taxed to death. I wonder how a country will be productive when productivity is being discouraged.

missjekyll:
And you will have it.your daughter deserves the absolute best. However, if going to private school, there won't be a discount. Its unfair to discount 7% at the expense of 93%.
If you can afford to do something that only 7% can do, you are not just "normal" people. You are doing very well.
93% of parents cannot do this even if they starve themselves and cut every other expenses.

Which discount are private school parents receiving? They are paying tuition fees from already taxed income. I have demonstrated to you that they are actually saving the government money by giving up their state school places. If you have a counter argument to that, please present your case with facts rather than making a blanket statement like 7% are wealthy because in reality these people are just normal everyday folk who have different priorities and shouldn’t be penalised for their aspirations.

Peerielass:
Which discount are private school parents receiving? They are paying tuition fees from already taxed income. I have demonstrated to you that they are actually saving the government money by giving up their state school places. If you have a counter argument to that, please present your case with facts rather than making a blanket statement like 7% are wealthy because in reality these people are just normal everyday folk who have different priorities and shouldn’t be penalised for their aspirations.

But it is a discount. We buy cars and houses and whatever else from already taxed income. That argument doesn't mean anything and doesn't show why private education should be VAT exempt.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parents cannot send their children to private schools. If you can, you're 'well to do' far above the average whether you consider yourself wealthy or not or whether you're making sacrifices to do it or not. Same as parents sending their children to Covenant University are almost universally going to be doing much better than the average parent of kids at UNILAG.

In principle, there's zero reason why the government and general public should be subsidising what is essentially a luxury (because private school parents not paying VAT costs the entire country via the loss of the funds that could have been raised, and therefore result in lost services or increased tax elsewhere).

Now, one valid point you've made is about how kids leaving private schools could lead to lots of pressure on public schools but the counter argument will be that funds raised from VAT on private school fees will pay for expanding capacity in state schools. It's not even clear that so many people will leave private schools. There has been conflicting data on that from what I've been reading, e.g. https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/02/independent_schools_misleading_vat/

I have this lovely Kia Rio 2019 model bought from Kia Nigeria. It's for sale if anyone is interested or can accept an exchange for a good car here in the UK.

missjekyll:
Where sports is concerned, I go where the science leads me and at the moment , the IOC and world Athletics do not exclude trans women once they have been on hormonal treatment.

I note how you cringed 😬 at the thought of your teenage daughter being paired up in a room /bunk for a 3 night school trip with a ‘Jennifer’ who (untill last week was Johnie), and who still have a 7inch ‘Amu’ between the legs. You are happy that it’s all good, since ‘Jennifer’s testosterone level has been medically reduced to below 11mg/ml, not minding that ‘Jennifer’ still gets rock 🪨 hard erections. You are cool with your 14/16 year old daughter sharing a room with that person. Issorai.

If the extent of your ‘science’ is that low testosterone makes a man a woman, and high testosterone makes a woman a man then all I can say is… I sorry sorry oh….(in Femi Kuti’s voice).
You ‘follow the science’ yet you don’t know about X & Y chromosomes? You follow the science and yet, you don’t know about 🧬 genes? You follow the science? Which science Biko?

Goodenoch:
But it is a discount. We buy cars and houses and whatever else from already taxed income. That argument doesn't mean anything and doesn't show why private education should be VAT exempt.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parents cannot send their children to private schools. If you can, you're 'well to do' far above the average whether you consider yourself wealthy or not or whether you're making sacrifices to do it or not. Same as parents sending their children to Covenant University are almost universally going to be doing much better than the average parent of kids at UNILAG.

In principle, there's zero reason why the government and general public should be subsidising what is essentially a luxury (because private school parents not paying VAT costs the entire country via the loss of the funds that could have been raised, and therefore result in lost services or increased tax elsewhere).

Now, one valid point you've made is about how kids leaving private schools could lead to lots of pressure on public schools but the counter argument will be that funds raised from VAT on private school fees will pay for expanding capacity in state schools. It's not even clear that so many people will leave private schools. There has been conflicting data on that from what I've been reading, e.g. https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/02/independent_schools_misleading_vat/

The institute for fiscal studies has published a reliable study on this. I would discountenance the ISC study as it was funded by the schools themselves.

Peerielass, this change will not kick in till next year. Also , since your daughters school has been making a profit for years, they can afford to "eat" the disparity and not pass on the full 20% to you.

Your daughter deserves the best . But so do other children .

Goodenoch:
But it is a discount. We buy cars and houses and whatever else from already taxed income. That argument doesn't mean anything and doesn't show why private education should be VAT exempt.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parents cannot send their children to private schools. If you can, you're 'well to do' far above the average whether you consider yourself wealthy or not or whether you're making sacrifices to do it or not. Same as parents sending their children to Covenant University are almost universally going to be doing much better than the average parent of kids at UNILAG.

In principle, there's zero reason why the government and general public should be subsidising what is essentially a luxury (because your not paying VAT costs the entire country in additional funds that need to be raised to function).

Now, one valid point you've made is about how kids leaving private schools could lead to lots of pressure on public schools but the counter argument will be that funds raised from VAT on private school fees will pay for expanding capacity in state schools. It's not even clear that so many people will leave private schools.There has been conflicting data on that from what I've been reading, e.g. https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/02/independent_schools_misleading_vat/

Going by your argument, university education should also be taxed as well as private healthcare. Universities also operate as charities with business tax relief. University education is a luxury and not a necessity. Nurseries should also be taxed as these are also luxuries and not a necessity. Parents can stay at home and look after their children until they are old enough to attend pre-school. You can’t tax one form of private education and leave the other. Maybe state secondary and primary school places should be means tested just like University bursaries, that way it will be more equitable.

Second bolded - I belong to a few Facebook groups of parents in private schools and majority of them have categorically stated they won’t be able to afford 20% fee increase especially those of them with more than 1 child. Some of them living in England have even gone to the extent of contacting their LAs and MPS requesting information on available school places in their catchment schools. Majority of the schools are oversubscribed and councils are offering schools which are more than 5 miles away which would also mean additional transportation expense for the LA (read Taxi to and fro school).

Perhaps you should be asking Labour how they intend to staff the schools. I see many adverts for primary and secondary school teachers on my local authority’s website but there are no takers. You would argue that they would probably pinch the teachers from private schools that have gone bust but those teachers left the state sector for a reason and I highly doubt they will be willing to go back.

You must have some supersonic eyes to have seen me cringing.
I skipped past that point because it just sounded a bit dodgy to me. Not sure how to debate a point i do not even understand. There are trans children in boarding schools currently . There was no need to be crude. Your crudeness did make me cringe.

Let me blow your mind: xx and xy are not the only genetic arrangements possible. There is xxy ,xo . Even genetic males who look physically female.

It's a grey area and I m not an expert in this evolving area.
Feel free to hold your opinions on this topic as I do mine.

BouharryArtikou:
I note how you cringed 😬 at the thought of your teenage daughter being paired up in a room /bunk for a 3 night school trip with a ‘Jennifer’ who (untill last week was Johnie), and who still have a 7inch ‘Amu’ between the legs. You are happy that it’s all good, since ‘Jennifer’s testosterone level has been medically reduced to below 11mg/ml, not minding that ‘Jennifer’ still gets rock 🪨 hard erections. You are cool with your 14/16 year old daughter sharing a room with that person. Issorai.

If the extent of your ‘science’ is that low testosterone makes a man a woman, and high testosterone makes a woman a man then all I can say is… I sorry sorry oh….(in Femi Kuti’s voice).
You ‘follow the science’ yet you don’t know about X & Y chromosomes? You follow the science and yet, you don’t know about 🧬 genes? You follow the science? Which science Biko?

missjekyll:
We are already being taxed to death now. Do you want more of the same? I dont.

At least with Labour, i can see where my money is going.(into infrastructure)

Actually I dont think any party that gets into government will reduce the tax burden.

Peerielass:
Going by your argument, university education should also be taxed as well as private healthcare. Universities also operate as charities with business tax relief. University education is a luxury and not a necessity. Nurseries should also be taxed as these are also luxuries and not a necessity. Parents can stay at home and look after their children until they are old enough to attend pre-school. You can’t tax one form of private education and leave the other. Maybe state secondary and primary school places should be means tested just like University bursaries, that way it will be more equitable.

Second bolded - I belong to a few Facebook groups of parents in private schools and majority of them have categorically stated they won’t be able to afford 20% fee increase especially those of them with more than 1 child. Some of them living in England have even gone to the extent of contacting their LAs and MPS requesting information on available school places in their catchment schools. Majority of the schools are oversubscribed and councils are offering schools which are more than 5 miles away which would also mean additional transportation expense for the LA (read Taxi to and fro school).

Perhaps you should be asking Labour how they intend to staff the schools. I see many adverts for primary and secondary school teachers on my local authority’s website but there are no takers. You would argue that they would probably pinch the teachers from private schools that have gone bust but those teachers left the state sector for a reason and I highly doubt they will be willing to go back.

Only private school is a choice.

missjekyll:
The institute for fiscal studies has published a reliable study on this. I would discountenance the ISC study as it was funded by the schools themselves.

Peerielass, this change will not kick in till next year. Also , since your daughters school has been making a profit for years, they can afford to "eat" the disparity and not pass on the full 20% to you.

Your daughter deserves the best . But so do other children .

Of course. But is it a zero-sum situation - do the resources to fund the improvement of public education necessarily have to come from taxation on private education?

Those sending their children to independent schools paid for oversubscribed state schools through their taxes, so in effect Labour now want them to pay twice.

The Govt should be giving parents a refund on their taxes for not using the state system, not doubly penalising them.

Imagine if all people sending their schools to private schools decide to use state schools instead. Is there provision for everyone?

Goodenoch:
But it is a discount. We buy cars and houses and whatever else from already taxed income. That argument doesn't mean anything and doesn't show why private education should be VAT exempt.

The fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parents cannot send their children to private schools. If you can, you're 'well to do' far above the average whether you consider yourself wealthy or not or whether you're making sacrifices to do it or not. Same as parents sending their children to Covenant University are almost universally going to be doing much better than the average parent of kids at UNILAG.

In principle, there's zero reason why the government and general public should be subsidising what is essentially a luxury (because private school parents not paying VAT costs the entire country via the loss of the funds that could have been raised, and therefore result in lost services or increased tax elsewhere).

Now, one valid point you've made is about how kids leaving private schools could lead to lots of pressure on public schools but the counter argument will be that funds raised from VAT on private school fees will pay for expanding capacity in state schools. It's not even clear that so many people will leave private schools. There has been conflicting data on that from what I've been reading, e.g. https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/06/02/independent_schools_misleading_vat/

missjekyll:
Only private school is a choice.

University education is a choice. You don’t need to be a university graduate to be successful in life, there are other routes like apprenticeship or learning a trade.

Private healthcare is a choice, you can use NHS like Keir and wait forever for your appointment and procedure.

Private nursery school is also a choice. Most people keep their kids at home until they reach school age.

None of these private services are any different from private school education but Labour has chosen to discriminate against one group of people to match their left wing ideology.

I was already punching calculator to consider independent school for my son but based on this policy, our focus is now on Grammar School. Let us use our tax well and save our money.

Peerielass:
Second bolded - I belong to a few Facebook groups of parents in private schools and majority of them have categorically stated they won’t be able to afford 20% fee increase especially those of them with more than 1 child. Some of them living in England have even gone to the extent of contacting their LAs and MPS requesting information on available school places in their catchment schools. Majority of the schools are oversubscribed and councils are offering schools which are more than 5 miles away which would also mean additional transportation expense for the LA (read Taxi to and fro school).

Perhaps you should be asking Labour how they intend to staff the schools. I see many adverts for primary and secondary school teachers on my local authority’s website but there are no takers. You would argue that they would probably pinch the teachers from private schools that have gone bust but those teachers left the state sector for a reason and I highly doubt they will be willing to go back.

Cyberknight:
Of course. But is it a zero-sum situation - do the resources to fund the improvement of public education necessarily have to come from taxation on private education?

They should already be paying this tax. It was an unfair privilege and an unconscionable one now we are in such dire straits.
My taxes are already high. Before the government tries to tax me again, they must collect all the taxes due from everybody.

dupyshoo:
I was already punching calculator to consider independent school for my son but based on this policy, our focus is now on Grammar School. Let us use our tax well and save our money.

Clap clap clap. The only vat payable on this one is on your child's cerebrum.

Some grammar schools are as good or even better than some private schools. So the child is not losing but I am not paying any additional tax to any government. It is a win win for me and my child.

missjekyll:
Clap clap clap. The only vat payable on this one is on your child's cerebrum.

dupyshoo:
I was already punching calculator to consider independent school for my son but based on this policy, our focus is now on Grammar School. Let us use our tax well and save our money.

Wahalla no dey finish for this country! Once Labour succeeds with the VAT charge on private schools. Their next target will be grammar schools, they will be stripping them off that status and making them non-selective schools which is why we should all fight against this policy by not voting Labour. It’s private schools today, tomorrow it will be grammar schools turn. We are living in a free state and people should be allowed to make choices that suits them.

missjekyll:
They should already be paying this tax. It was an unfair privilege and an unconscionable one now we are in such dire straits.
My taxes are already high. Before the government tries to tax me again, they must collect all the taxes due from everybody.

There is one way to do that - by balancing out the tax rates on capital gains as opposed to wage income so that effective tax rates are equalised as closely as possible. But I'm struggling to see how private education should be taxable from a financial standpoint. The logic doesnt stack up .The only way it makes sense to me is if it is done from a class war standpoint, which I believe is the case, a nod to Labour's Corbynite wing. Of course the casualties in this go way beyond the Oxford PPE classes and hit everyone.

I am definitely not voting Labour as I dont want more tax.
I am not sure of who I will vote instead.

Peerielass:
Wahalla no dey finish for this country! Once Labour succeeds with the VAT charge on private schools. Their next target will be grammar schools, they will be stripping them off that status and making them non-selective schools which is why we should all fight against this policy by not voting Labour. It’s private schools today, tomorrow it will be grammar schools turn. We are living in a free state and people should be allowed to make choices that suits them.

dupyshoo:
I am definitely not voting Labour as I dont want more tax.
I am not sure of who I will vote instead.

That's the problem with the FTP system, alas.
I'm no fan of either Labour or the Tories; they're two cheeks of the same fundament.

I agree!! Voting labour after Tories is from frying pan to fire IMO.

Cyberknight:
That's the problem with the FTP system, alas.
I'm no fan of either Labour or the Tories; they're two cheeks of the same fundament.

Peerielass:
Wahalla no dey finish for this country! Once Labour succeeds with the VAT charge on private schools. Their next target will be grammar schools, they will be stripping them off that status and making them non-selective schools which is why we should all fight against this policy by not voting Labour. It’s private schools today, tomorrow it will be grammar schools turn. We are living in a free state and people should be allowed to make choices that suits them.

Where did they say that? This is a lie, Ms Peerielass. This is an elite gathering of Nigerians in Diaspora. They are perfectly capable of making up their minds on who to vote. We just lay out the facts and argue back and forth to have a little fun. There's no need to be disingenuous .

dupyshoo:
I was already punching calculator to consider independent school for my son but based on this policy, our focus is now on Grammar School. Let us use our tax well and save our money.

I moved to Rochester because of the grammar schools, all my children attended Grammar schools....... Why would I want to waste money on private education, when I am already heavily taxed........🤣

Cyberknight:
There is one way to do that - by balancing out the tax rates on capital gains as opposed to wage income so that effective tax rates are equalised as closely as possible. But I'm struggling to see how private education should be taxable from a financial standpoint. The logic doesnt stack up .The only way it makes sense to me is if it is done from a class war standpoint, which I believe is the case, a nod to Labour's Corbynite wing. Of course the casualties in this go way beyond the Oxford PPE classes and hit everyone.

That's a wealth tax. Labour has rowed back on this which is bonkers to me . But then I m on the left. They ve moved to the centre where the votes are in the UK.

I see 1.3 billion reasons to implement this and support it wholeheartedly