₦airaland Forum

Plus1234:
guy you are ridiculously stupid. You just open your mouth against Christ? Followers of the cursed peodophile are shameless and stupid.Your terrorist founder is rotten and forgotten in hell.I strongly beleive you will eventually enter hell with "Had i know" .You blaspheme the Holy Spirit alot .You will perish in your sin and no remedy .Son of belial ,accursed follower of a vile religion.relegion that breeds 99℅ terrorists worldwide, religion that tries to copy the Torah and new testament. religion of evil.

You did not address any of his point..

sonmvayina:
I don't know why the authors wrote it ...knowing fully well that God hates human sacrifice and cannibalism in any form whether pretend cannibalism or real. I guess they borrowed them from mithraism... Christianity is just rebranded paganism if you ask me..

God was already forgiving people who sincerely repent.
I wonder why Catholics will introduce something else...

Ransome? Who asked for the ransome?
Who paid the ransome
Who received it..
Who was kidnapped?

I will need clarity..

You need to understand that's the gospel is just a theological fiction...God already gave us all we need in the Torah..

Pls if U not ready to help him answer the questions step aside and allow him carry his cross.
It's not like he asked U in the first place.

If U want to talk about the gospel, open another thread for that. Don't derail the topic.
Either answer the question or step aside.

AntiChristian:
No mind the guy jare!
I told him about three people in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus forgave one without blood. The other one is the rich ruler and the third is the criminal crucified with Jesus. There was no mention of blood or death of Jesus around this three incidences! Yet they claim blood and death all the time!

If the death of Jesus is not tied to salvation, then why did Jesus say

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Mark 10.45

Why did Jesus say his death will be for redemption of mankind.
Why will he say something like that?

Remember I asked U earlier how Jesus can shed his blood if doesn't die?
Do U see the correlation now? Significance of blood and death of Jesus for forgiveness of sin?

AntiChristian throw in the towel. Then check the response of your Muslim friends I asked about thean who took shahada and died.
They making more sense than U

SIRTee15:
Pls if U not ready to help him answer the questions step aside and allow him carry his cross.
It's not like he asked U in the first place.

If U want to talk about the gospel, open another thread for that. Don't derail the topic.
Either answer the question or step aside.

I already did..

The authors of the Jesus story/myth did.
They put those words in the mouth of their super hero/protagonist...

What else do you want to hear...forgiveness is not believing in a human sacrifice it is sincerely repenting and forsaking of sin/evil ways...

So whatever the author said Jesus said is not worth anything...

sonmvayina:
I already did..

The authors of the Jesus story/myth did.
They put those words in the mouth of their super hero/protagonist...

What else do you want to hear...forgiveness is not believing in a human sacrifice it is sincerely repenting and forsaking of sin/evil ways...

So whatever the author said Jesus said is not worth anything...

Tell AntiChristian to come and say say so himself.
Don't speak for him.
This is his thread not yours.
Let him come here and say with his own mouth that gospel is corrupt. That the authors put those words in Jesus mouth.
AntiChristian has mouth, let him speak.
Allow him use his hand to destroy the nonsense thread he created.

sonmvayina:
I already did..

The authors of the Jesus story/myth did.
They put those words in the mouth of their super hero/protagonist...

What else do you want to hear...forgiveness is not believing in a human sacrifice it is sincerely repenting and forsaking of sin/evil ways...

So whatever the author said Jesus said is not worth anything...

All those your tatata human sacrifice blablabla, U go chop am.
Trust me U go chop all them back.
Enjoy for now, I no get your time today.

Today na AntiChristian go wash gutter with that his big non thinking mouth.
Tell him to come here and say the gospel is corrupt.

AntiChristian:
No mind the guy jare!
I told him about three people in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus forgave one without blood. The other one is the rich ruler and the third is the criminal crucified with Jesus. There was no mention of blood or death of Jesus around this three incidences! Yet they claim blood and death all the time!

Did Jesus say his blood is needed to receive eternal life?
John 6

53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them.

I'm beginning to think Paul heard when Jesus was speaking.
Their teaching are just too similar.

AntiChristian go and get your cup and drink the blood of Jesus, your salvation is tied to drinking the blood of Jesus.
Don't be determined to end up in hell. Stop listening to Muhammed, he's a false prophet

AntiChristian:
No mind the guy jare!
I told him about three people in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus forgave one without blood. The other one is the rich ruler and the third is the criminal crucified with Jesus. There was no mention of blood or death of Jesus around this three incidences! Yet they claim blood and death all the time!

No be your fault. Na that guy wey chook mouth.
I for use U wash gutter.

U ran here saying Jesus never said he forgives with blood.
I showed u evidence now U running around like an headless chicken looking for something wey no loss

When U surrender your life, do U need to know everything about Jesus Christ b4 u surrender?

Jesus makes it clear, if U believe in him U will believe in his words.

If Jesus says the ff

His blood is needed for forgiveness of sin.
His blood is needed to attain eternal life
His death is for redemption of mankind.

That means when U believe in Christ U believe in those words.



The blood of Jesus forgives all sins either committed under the old covenant or new covenant.




Jesus didn't ask us b4 he gave his blood as atonement for us. He gave his blood without us asking.
U don't need to know or ask b4 the blood does the work of atonement on us.
The blood is not for asking, it's automatic. U ask for 0forgiveness by turning to Jesus Christ, the blood atone for the sins.

That's your answer.

SIRTee15:
No be your fault. Na that guy wey chook mouth.
I for use U wash gutter.

Empty Christian bragging!

U ran here saying Jesus never said he forgives with blood.
I showed u evidence now U running around like an headless chicken looking for something wey no loss

who did Jesus forgive with blood? He did told someone "you are forgiven" was it with blood?

When U surrender your life, do U need to know everything about Jesus Christ b4 u surrender?

Who can know everything about anyone? Even Jesus's parents didn't know everything about him! You can only know what he teaches! Who did Jesus told to surrender his/her life to him?

Jesus makes it clear, if U believe in him U will believe in his words.

Why didn't he write his words himself if he wants us to believe it?

If Jesus says the ff

His blood is needed for forgiveness of sin.
His blood is needed to attain eternal life
His death is for redemption of mankind.

That means when U believe in Christ U believe in those words.

You can even say blood salvation is the greatest commandment!

The blood of Jesus forgives all sins either committed under the old covenant or new covenant.

Meshionu! No be only blood na water!

Ask and you shall be given!
We ask for forgiveness after repentance!

Even in the lord's prayer "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us"

Trespasses are forgiven without blood!

Jesus didn't ask us b4 he gave his blood as atonement for us. He gave his blood without us asking.
U don't need to know or ask b4 the blood does the work of atonement on us.
The blood is not for asking, it's automatic. U ask for 0forgiveness by turning to Jesus Christ, the blood atone for the sins.

That's your answer.

Blood atonement is a ritual idolatry mixed into Christianity from Emperor Constantine and others! No one is saved by blood! We don't have ritualist here!

SIRTee15:
All those your tatata human sacrifice blablabla, U go chop am.
Trust me U go chop all them back.
Enjoy for now, I no get your time today.

Today na AntiChristian go wash gutter with that his big non thinking mouth.
Tell him to come here and say the gospel is corrupt.

What is Gospel in the first place

Writings of Paul and a few disciples and historians right?

SIRTee15:
If the death of Jesus is not tied to salvation, then why did Jesus say

For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Mark 10.45

All these are idioms and parables! No death or blood atonement at all

Why did Jesus say his death will be for redemption of mankind.
Why will he say something like that?

What mankind? People have been saved without blood before Jesus. Even Jesus mentioned it in the Lord's prayer.

Remember I asked U earlier how Jesus can shed his blood if doesn't die?
Do U see the correlation now? Significance of blood and death of Jesus for forgiveness of sin?

What Correlation? Abeg!

AntiChristian throw in the towel. Then check the response of your Muslim friends I asked about thean who took shahada and died.
They making more sense than U

I don't even need to check. No one is Allah to really know what He will do. You can choose whatever makes sense to you. However the Christian sense is irrelevant to me.

SIRTee15:
All those your tatata human sacrifice blablabla, U go chop am.
Trust me U go chop all them back.
Enjoy for now, I no get your time today.

Today na AntiChristian go wash gutter with that his big non thinking mouth.
Tell him to come here and say the gospel is corrupt.

It is not corrupt...it is fiction.
The earlier you learn that..the better for you.

SIRTee15:
Tell AntiChristian to come and say say so himself.
Don't speak for him.
This is his thread not yours.
Let him come here and say with his own mouth that gospel is corrupt. That the authors put those words in Jesus mouth.
AntiChristian has mouth, let him speak.
Allow him use his hand to destroy the nonsense thread he created.

What's the point?

AntiChristian:
What is Gospel in the first place

Writings of Paul and a few disciples and historians right?

So whose writings about Jesus should I believe?

The one dictated by Muhammed who came 600 years after Jesus?

Oniyeye

sonmvayina:
It is not corrupt...it is fiction.
The earlier you learn that..the better for you.

Now let me start with U.
Explain Isaiah 53 to me...
Who is the suffering servant describe in Isaiah 53?

AntiChristian:
All these are idioms and parables! No death or blood atonement at all

What mankind? People have been saved without blood before Jesus. Even Jesus mentioned it in the Lord's prayer.

What Correlation? Abeg!

I don't even need to check. No one is Allah to really know what He will do. You can choose whatever makes sense to you. However the Christian sense is irrelevant to me.

Since it's parable
Explain it to we Christians.

What does Christ imply when he said my life will be a ransom for many.

AntiChristian:
Empty Christian bragging!

who did Jesus forgive with blood? He did told someone "you are forgiven" was it with blood?

Who can know everything about anyone? Even Jesus's parents didn't know everything about him! You can only know what he teaches! Who did Jesus told to surrender his/her life to him?

Why didn't he write his words himself if he wants us to believe it?


You can even say blood salvation is the greatest commandment!

Meshionu! No be only blood na water!

Ask and you shall be given!
We ask for forgiveness after repentance!

Even in the lord's prayer "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us"

Trespasses are forgiven without blood!




Blood atonement is a ritual idolatry mixed into Christianity from Emperor Constantine and others! No one is saved by blood! We don't have ritualist here!

Did Paul agree with Jesus?

AntiChristian:
Empty Christian bragging!

who did Jesus forgive with blood? He did told someone "you are forgiven" was it with blood?

Who can know everything about anyone? Even Jesus's parents didn't know everything about him! You can only know what he teaches! Who did Jesus told to surrender his/her life to him?

Why didn't he write his words himself if he wants us to believe it?


You can even say blood salvation is the greatest commandment!

Meshionu! No be only blood na water!

Ask and you shall be given!
We ask for forgiveness after repentance!

Even in the lord's prayer "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us"

Trespasses are forgiven without blood!




Blood atonement is a ritual idolatry mixed into Christianity from Emperor Constantine and others! No one is saved by blood! We don't have ritualist here!

Leave your rhetoric one place
Did Paul agree with Jesus?

AntiChristian:
Empty Christian bragging!

who did Jesus forgive with blood? He did told someone "you are forgiven" was it with blood?

Who can know everything about anyone? Even Jesus's parents didn't know everything about him! You can only know what he teaches! Who did Jesus told to surrender his/her life to him?

Why didn't he write his words himself if he wants us to believe it?


You can even say blood salvation is the greatest commandment!

Meshionu! No be only blood na water!

Ask and you shall be given!
We ask for forgiveness after repentance!

Even in the lord's prayer "And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us"

Trespasses are forgiven without blood!




Blood atonement is a ritual idolatry mixed into Christianity from Emperor Constantine and others! No one is saved by blood! We don't have ritualist here!

Finally, if trespass is forgiven without blood, why did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice animal blood for atonement of sin.
God gave them the commandment to follow. Shouldn't that be adequate for salvation according to U.
Why did God then have to instruct them to slaughter animals and use the blood for remission of sins.

Why didn't God tell them to just raise their hands in the air and seek forgiveness, why animal blood?

Remember we talking old testament now.

SIRTee15:
Now let me start with U.
Explain Isaiah 53 to me...
Who is the suffering servant describe in Isaiah 53?

Hahahahhaa

Isaiah already told you 8 times prior to chapter 53.
See owner here.. Isaiah 45:4-5

For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,

In 41:5-9 same thing.

So my friend, Jacob( who God renamed Israel) is God servant. At this time, they where in exile and suffering under the Babylonians...

I have a thread where I explained all these.

SIRTee15:
Finally, if trespass is forgiven without blood, why did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice animal blood for atonement of sin.
God gave them the commandment to follow. Shouldn't that be adequate for salvation according to U.
Why did God then have to instruct them to slaughter animals and use the blood for remission of sins.

Why didn't God tell them to just raise their hands in the air and seek forgiveness, why animal blood?

Remember we talking old testament now.

Animal sacrifice were for unintentional sins. A sin you committed but did not know it was a sin. In this case only your body committed the sin, not your mind. So an animal sacrifice is allowed. The animal must be less than 1 year old without blemish either goat or ram. NEVER A HUMAN BEING. And you have to be there when the animal is slaughtered, you have to confess the sin and promise to forsake it. Animals are not the exclusive means to obtain mercy, flour is also acceptable.For intentional sin, it does not work, because both your mind/spirit and body is involved....
Do you understand now?

sonmvayina:
Animal sacrifice were for unintentional sins. A sin you committed but did not know it was a sin. In this case only your body committed the sin, not your mind. So an animal sacrifice is allowed. The animal must be less than 1 year old without blemish either goat or ram. NEVER A HUMAN BEING. And you have to be there when the animal is slaughtered, you have to confess the sin and promise to forsake it. Animals are not the exclusive means to obtain mercy, flour is also acceptable.For intentional sin, it does not work, because both your mind/spirit and body is involved....
Do you understand now?

Ignorant man don't teach me nonsense....

Leviticus 6

The Lord said to Moses: 2 “If anyone sins and is unfaithful to the Lord by deceiving a neighbor about something entrusted to them or left in their care or about something stolen, or if they cheat their neighbor, 3 or if they find lost property and lie about it, or if they swear falsely about any such sin that people may commit— 4 when they sin in any of these ways and realize their guilt, they must return what they have stolen or taken by extortion, or what was entrusted to them, or the lost property they found, 5 or whatever it was they swore falsely about. They must make restitution in full, add a fifth of the value to it and give it all to the owner on the day they present their guilt offering. 6 And as a penalty they must bring to the priest, that is, to the Lord, their guilt offering, a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value. 7 In this way the priest will make atonement for them before the Lord, and they will be forgiven for any of the things they did that made them guilty.”

Above sin doesn't look unintentional to me. It's very much INTENTIONAL.
Obviously U don't understand the concept of guilt offering.

Now answer my question
Why did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice animal blood for forgiveness of sin be it intentional or unintentional.

sonmvayina:
Hahahahhaa

Isaiah already told you 8 times prior to chapter 53.
See owner here.. Isaiah 45:4-5

For the sake of Jacob my servant,
of Israel my chosen,
I summon you by name
and bestow on you a title of honor,
though you do not acknowledge me.
5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
apart from me there is no God.
I will strengthen you,
though you have not acknowledged me,

In 41:5-9 same thing.

So my friend, Jacob( who God renamed Israel) is God servant. At this time, they where in exile and suffering under the Babylonians...

I have a thread where I explained all these.

Isaiah 53
But He was pierced for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
and by His stripes we are healed

For He was cut off from the land of the living;e
He was stricken for the transgression of My people
cause he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Explain how these verses of Isaiah 53 apply to Jacob.
Explain when Jacob became an intercessor for people's sin.

When did Jacob bore the sin of many...

SIRTee15:
Isaiah 53
But He was pierced for our transgressions,
He was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him,
and by His stripes we are healed

For He was cut off from the land of the living;e
He was stricken for the transgression of My people
cause he poured out his life unto death,

and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

Explain how these verses of Isaiah 53 apply to Jacob.
Explain when Jacob became an intercessor for people's sin.

When did Jacob bore the sin of many...

Somebody with half a brain will know those passages are all written in past continuous tense..meaning it is something that happened in the past and still happening ...there is no future tense... Isaiah is referring to the entire Jewish people as God usually referred to them in the singular...
You selecting some passages and ignoring others those not change that...

Read everything in context ..

https://www.nairaland.com/6612275/isaiah-53-why-suffering-servant

SIRTee15:
Ignorant man don't teach me nonsense....

Leviticus 6

The Lord said to Moses: 2 “If anyone sins and is unfaithful to the Lord by deceiving a neighbor about something entrusted to them or left in their care or about something stolen, or if they cheat their neighbor, 3 or if they find lost property and lie about it, or if they swear falsely about any such sin that people may commit— 4 when they sin in any of these ways and realize their guilt, they must return what they have stolen or taken by extortion, or what was entrusted to them, or the lost property they found, 5 or whatever it was they swore falsely about. They must make restitution in full, add a fifth of the value to it and give it all to the owner on the day they present their guilt offering. 6 And as a penalty they must bring to the priest, that is, to the Lord, their guilt offering, a ram from the flock, one without defect and of the proper value. 7 In this way the priest will make atonement for them before the Lord, and they will be forgiven for any of the things they did that made them guilty.”

Above sin doesn't look unintentional to me. It's very much INTENTIONAL.
Obviously U don't understand the concept of guilt offering.

Now answer my question
Why did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice animal blood for forgiveness of sin be it intentional or unintentional.

I am not God...
My point is that only animals was allowed..

Never a human being..

Human sacrifice is an abomination in the sight of God.

So if Jesus actually existed he was executed for his crimes..even if he were not, it is not the first time an innocent person will be executed...either way it is not an atonement..

sonmvayina:
Somebody with half a brain will know those passages are all written in past continuous tense..meaning it is something that happened in the past and still happening ...there is no future tense... Isaiah is referring to the entire Jewish people as God usually referred to them in the singular...
You selecting some passages and ignoring others those not change that...

Read everything in context ..

https://www.nairaland.com/6612275/isaiah-53-why-suffering-servant

U mean the nation of Israel is the one cut away from the land of the living.
U means Israel bore the iniquities of Israel.
HE bore OUR iniquities.
Who is the he? and who are the our?

You are a joke..

What do the writers of the Tanakh think of Isaiah 53?
Your opinion doesn't count. Don't teach me nonsense.
Someone that doesn't know guilt offering, didn't know the difference btw sin and guilt offering wants to teach me old testament.
U must be joking.

Tell me what the 2nd temple Jews who compiled the tanakh understand about Isaiah 53.
Did they believe it's about Israel or about a Man.

SIRTee15:
U mean the nation of Israel is the one cut away from the land of the living.
U means Israel bore the iniquities of Israel.
HE bore OUR iniquities.
Who is the he? and who are the our?

You are a joke..

What do the writers of the Tanakh think of Isaiah 53?
Your opinion doesn't count. Don't teach me nonsense.
Someone that doesn't know guilt offering, didn't know the difference btw sin and guilt offering wants to teach me old testament.
U must be joking.

Tell me what the 2nd temple Jews who compiled the tanakh understand about Isaiah 53.
Did they believe it's about Israel or about a Man.

Go and read it in context..forget the verses. It was not Isaiah that added them...

sonmvayina:
Go and read it in context..forget the verses. It was not Isaiah that added them...

U are a big joke.
Forget what verses....
It's now become cherry picking what suits your agenda
Why not allow the scripture to speak for itself....

I warned U to stay away but your stubborn self wouldn't listen.
See where U ended up...

Next time learn to mind your business.

sonmvayina:
I am not God...
My point is that only animals was allowed..

Never a human being..

Human sacrifice is an abomination in the sight of God.

So if Jesus actually existed he was executed for his crimes..even if he were not, it is not the first time an innocent person will be executed...either way it is not an atonement..

Ok so we now acknowledge that God demands blood sacrifice for forgiveness of sin from the ancient Israelites.

So the question now is what changed. How come all U need to do now is ask God and he will forgive your sins.
Why did he change his mind?
When did he change his mind?
Why did God abandon the blood sacrifice and is now saying all U need have your sin forgiven is to raise up your hand and ask.
Why did he institute above right from the beginning.

I thought God doesn't change, why did he change mind concerning forgiveness of sin.

AntiChristian:
Jesus's Verdict
For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive yours. Matthew 6:14-15

Paul's Verdicts
In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of his grace. Ephesians 1:7

He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification. Romans 4:25

Does God forgive sins when men forgive others or is it by blood and grace?

The forgiveness of sins Paul is referring to is the sin of the entire human race. The death of Jesus has met the demand of justice. Jesus took our place and died for the whole world. So in the mind of justice, our sins are forgiven. But this is the legal side of redemption. It becomes vital to you when you accept it by confessing Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. The record of sin you ever committed is wiped away by the blood of Jesus.

But after you have received salvation, the rule of Jesus will apply. If you don’t forgive your brethren, God will not forgive you. It will stand against you on judgment day.

Ken4Christ:
The forgiveness of sins Paul is referring to is the sin of the entire human race. The death of Jesus has met the demand of justice. Jesus took our place and died for the whole world. So in the mind of justice, our sins are forgiven. But this is the legal side of redemption. It becomes vital to you when you accept it by confessing Jesus as your Lord and Saviour. The record of sin you ever committed is wiped away by the blood of Jesus.

I know you have to help Paul reinterprete what he said! But what Paul preached remains different from Jesus's.

But after you have received salvation, the rule of Jesus will apply. If you don’t forgive your brethren, God will not forgive you. It will stand against you on judgment day.

So salvation is not grace but works right?

SIRTee15:
Finally, if trespass is forgiven without blood, why did God tell the Israelites to sacrifice animal blood for atonement of sin.

God doesn't need the blood! He just wants their obedience and piety! But Cain and Abel brought sacrifices but the one with piety was accepted!

God gave them the commandment to follow. Shouldn't that be adequate for salvation according to U.
Why did God then have to instruct them to slaughter animals and use the blood for remission of sins.

Why didn't God tell them to just raise their hands in the air and seek forgiveness, why animal blood?

Remember we talking old testament now.

What animal is slaughtered In the book of Ezekiel, Chapter 18, verse 21-22 which says: "But if a wicked person turns away from all the sins they have committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, that person will surely live; they will not die. None of the offenses they have committed will be remembered against them. Because of the righteous things they have done, they will live."