₦airaland Forum

SIRTee15:
I don't consider psalm 91 a messianic psalm. It's a poetic psalm that's applicable to everybody.

Some Christians may have attributed it as such but it's not amongst the messianic passages as per 2nd temple Jews.
Pre Christian Jews do not see it as a messianic prophecy.

Besides no messianic prophecy defines the whole of the Messiah ministry.
So I don't get the point of your argument at all.

Do messianic prophecies come with messianic stamp?

In Matthew 4, we are told devil try to tempt Jesus by asking him to jump off the highest point of the temple, he said to him "If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning YOU,  and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

And Jesus replied "It is ALSO written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

And we know for a fact that the verse used by the devil is Psalm 91, and Jesus did not deny that the psalm is about him, infact he affirmed it by replying with: it is ALSO written

Coincidentally, this psalm is all about someone that will be in danger of death and will pray to God and God will save him miraculously and this Psalm also foreshadow the name of Jesus.

And we are told Jesus was praying to God, He prostrated and ask God to take the cup of death away from him.

AntiChristian:
So you believe the lie?

You are a Pauline Christian!

Without Paul Jesus failed!

Jesus himself said;

John 16:12-13.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Spiritual knowledge are in levels. You can't teach a primary school students further mathematics. Even some people walked away from Jesus in an occasion because they couldn’t assimilate his teachings.

So, the Holy Spirit continued from where Jesus stopped. And he used the Apostles and Prophets to reveal divine truths Jesus couldn't say because they couldn’t take it.

And the Holy Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He gets his words from Jesus. And Jesus gets his from the Father. I know that this is too big for you to comprehend. Please, embrace Christ and understand the mystery of God's kingdom.

SIRTee15:
Why should I doubt it?
Give me evidence why I should doubt it.
It's not just how U feel

You no go believe am khe?

They don package books by anonymous authors for you as scripture, u gats believe every inch of it..

Qasim6:
I'm not sure I can trust the book of act as it was written by Luke who was Paul disciple. The book is better called acts of Paul sef rather than the acts of the apostle. Because its all Paul.
I believe it was only written to push the narrative that all is good between Paul and the Original apostles, Which I believe is not the case.

It is evidently Clear from writings of Paul that he was in constant conflict with some other people teaching the message of Jesus Christ.
He even refer to them as "Super apostles" in a derogatory manner.

Una don start this cherry pick story line.
Book of act is true when they told Paul to obey mosaic law but is now untrue when James and Peter agree with Paul or when Peter was told to eat unclean food.

Ok since U want to hide under the letters.

Paul himself admit what he received initially was from the apostles and that's also what he preach.

1 Corinthians 15
Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve.


Peter also agreed with Paul that his teaching is true.

2 Peter 3

Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

Qasim6:
You no go believe am khe?

They don package books by anonymous authors for you as scripture, u gats believe every inch of it..

Anonymous authors is in your head.
We know those who wrote the gospel.

There's a reason the gospel were initially called 'memoir of the apostles'

FYI memoir mean historical account written by an author who actually witnessed the event he wrote about

Qasim6:
Do messianic prophecies come with messianic stamp?

In Matthew 4, we are told devil try to tempt Jesus by asking him to jump off the highest point of the temple, he said to him "If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning YOU,  and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

And Jesus replied "It is ALSO written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.

And we know for a fact that the verse used by the devil is Psalm 91, and Jesus did not deny that the psalm is about him, infact he affirmed it by replying with: it is ALSO written

Coincidentally, this psalm is all about someone that will be in danger of death and will pray to God and God will save him miraculously and this Psalm also foreshadow the name of Jesus.

And we are told Jesus was praying to God, He prostrated and ask God to take the cup of death away from him.

That Jesus quote a verse doesn't make it messianic.
Pls go and learn the criteria for messianic prophecy.

Jesus quote the shema, hear o Israel your Lord your God is one.

Does that make the shema a messianic prophetic verse.

Go and read 2nd temple messianic prophecies, those verses in the tanakh the pre Christian Jews believed to be about the coming Messiah.

Psalm 91 wasn't considered a messianic prophecy.

SIRTee15:
That Jesus quote a verse doesn't make it messianic.
Pls go and learn the criteria for messianic prophecy.

Jesus quote the shema, hear o Israel your Lord your God is one.

Does that make the shema a messianic prophetic verse.

Go and read 2nd temple messianic prophecies, those verses in the tanakh the pre Christian Jews believed to be about the coming Messiah.

Psalm 91 wasn't considered a messianic prophecy.

I trust u to throw away Psalm 91 as a prophecy about Jesus. This a prophecy that foreshadow his name.

But you'll rather cling to Isaiah 53, that says the suffering servant will see his off spring, u just have to put a spin on it and change it to some spiritual children.

Qasim6:
I trust u to throw away Psalm 91 as a prophecy about Jesus. This a prophecy that foreshadow his name.

But you'll rather cling to Isaiah 53, that says the suffering servant will see his off spring, u just have to put a spin on it and change it to some spiritual children.

I don't even have a problem seeing it as a messianic prophecy but that will be retrospective application because Jews before coming of Jesus didn't see it as one.

Psalm 91 if it's about Jesus didn't negate Isaiah 53.
No messianic verse fully described the Messiah.
Jesus fulfilled over 300 messianic prophecies, none of them fully described his ministry. They all spoke in parts.

Honestly I don't get your point about Psalm 91.

sonmvayina:
Try

Now I will flush your face with clear evidence that the Jews before coming of Jesus believed Psalm 53 was a messianic prophecy.
What changed after coming of Jesus is what U should ask yourself.

sonmvayina:
Try

More from early century rabbi who were honest with their text b4 bias against Christianity influenced Jewish interpretation of their Tanakh.

sonmvayina:
Try

More from ancient rabbi on Isaiah 53

sonmvayina:
Try

What do Jews think this suffering Messiah will do for them...

He will forgive their iniquity as written in Isaiah 53

sonmvayina:
Try

Timeline of how Jews went from Isaiah 53 is about an individual to being about nation of Israel.

See how the Jews U follow are distorting interpretation of their text.

You could see that the Targum as far back as 150 BC, 150 yrs b4 Christ already wrote that Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.
As U can no ancient source pre 500AD believed Isaiah was about Israel.

sonmvayina:
Try

Even extant manuscripts like the dead sea scrolls confirmed the Jews before Jesus believed Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.

sonmvayina:
Try

More from dead sea scrolls on Isaiah 53.

sonmvayina:
Try

So who started the claim that Isaiah 53 is about Israel.
It was a rabbi called Rashi in the 10th century.

sonmvayina:
Try

So the choice is yours.
You either follow ancient rabbis or a revisionist called Rashi.

As I always say, person wey wan go hell fire no dey hear word but will do everything possible to end up in hell no matter what we do.

U can close your eyes and continue to believe your delusion.
But at least U won't say SIRTee didn't show U the truth.

Qasim, AntiChristian U Muslims guys can also learn the truth.

Ken4Christ:
Jesus himself said;

John 16:12-13.
12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Spiritual knowledge are in levels. You can't teach a primary school students further mathematics. Even some people walked away from Jesus in an occasion because they couldn’t assimilate his teachings.

So, the Holy Spirit continued from where Jesus stopped. And he used the Apostles and Prophets to reveal divine truths Jesus couldn't say because they couldn’t take it.

And the Holy Spirit doesn't speak on his own. He gets his words from Jesus. And Jesus gets his from the Father. I know that this is too big for you to comprehend. Please, embrace Christ and understand the mystery of God's kingdom.

The Holy Spirit didn't reveal any truth as much as Paul did!

Paul = the promised Holy Spirit!

SIRTee15:
So the choice is yours.
You either follow ancient rabbis or a revisionist called Rashi.

As I always say, person wey wan go hell fire no dey hear word but will do everything possible to end up in hell no matter what we do.

U can close your eyes and continue to believe your delusion.
But at least U won't say SIRTee didn't show U the truth.

Qasim, AntiChristian U Muslims guys can also learn the truth.

Where is the fact that Jews referred to Isaiah 53 as relating to the Messiah?

SIRTee15:
So who started the claim that Isaiah 53 is about Israel.
It was a rabbi called Rashi in the 10th century.

Hahahahhaa

sonmvayina:
Where is the fact that Jews referred to Isaiah 53 as relating to the Messiah?

did u read all the evidence I sent here?

SIRTee15:
Now I will flush your face with clear evidence that the Jews before coming of Jesus believed Psalm 53 was a messianic prophecy.
What changed after coming of Jesus is what U should ask yourself.

You really need to learn..

https://www.jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-a-jewish-perspective/

Before you start pulling absurds article from the Internet..

SIRTee15:
did u read all the evidence I sent here?

Nah, you just pissing everywhere...

Read the Jewish interpretation up there..

sonmvayina:
Hahahahhaa

show me any rabbi pre 500 AD that said the Isaiah 53 is about Israel. Just one.
I brought tons of evidence, now I'm asking u to bring just one person that made such pronouncement.

sonmvayina:
You really need to learn..

https://www.jewsforjudaism.org/knowledge/articles/isaiah-53-a-jewish-perspective/

Before you start pulling absurds article from the Internet..

hahaha

I brought u evidence of based on research and dead sea scroll.
u bringing me opinion of modern day jewish scolars.

u are lost bro.

Imagine someone calling evidence from dead sea scrolls absurd, calling extant manuscripts evidence as absurd.
U called evidence from Prof Martin Hengel absurd. FYI- he was one of the greatest scholars of 2nd temple judaism in this modern era.
I brought research work from Nick Meader, top scholar and researcher in theology and philosophy of religion.
These are non - christian works.

now u bring me opinion of 20th century Jewish apologist from a judaism website, what do u expect them to say...Isaih 53 is about Jesus!!!!

My friend, go and bring me evidence that any Jewish scholar before 1000 AD believed Isaiah 43 is about Israel.

Even the targum, which is a aramaic translation of the hebrew bible as far back as 150 BC believed Isaiah 53 is about the Messiah.
FYI- Priest and scribes used to read the targum loud to the people in the synagogue.

AntiChristian:
The Holy Spirit didn't reveal any truth as much as Paul did!

Paul = the promised Holy Spirit!

1st Corinthians 2:9-10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God

Ephesians 2:4-5
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets BY THE SPIRIT;

Ken4Christ:
1st Corinthians 2:9-10
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10 But God hath revealed them unto us BY HIS SPIRIT: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God

Ephesians 2:4-5
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets BY THE SPIRIT;

These are Paul's letters to his congregations elsewhere! How do they become your scripture?

AntiChristian:
These are Paul's letters to his congregations elsewhere! How do they become your scripture?

Who else should have written it. Men have always been vessels used by God to communicate his divine truths. You had better repent while you have the opportunity. Jesus said,

John 14:6
....I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

And you know that every single word Jesus spoke are truth.

Why are you risking your life to follow a prophet who confess he doesn't know what will become of him and even you that is following- Sura 46:9.

And you ignore Jesus who gives you assurance of eternal life. Are you using your brain? Do you know how hot and horrible hell is?

Ken4Christ:
Who else should have written it. Men have always been vessels used by God to communicate his divine truths. You had better repent while you have the opportunity. Jesus said,

John 14:6
....I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

What is the context of that verse without checking your Bible offline or online?

And you know that every single word Jesus spoke are truth.

Why are you risking your life to follow a prophet who confess he doesn't know what will become of him and even you that is following- Sura 46:9.

And you ignore Jesus who gives you assurance of eternal life. Are you using your brain? Do you know how hot and horrible hell is?

This nonsense you are parroting never tire you?
Muhammad will be the first to Enter Paradise! Even before Jesus!

AntiChristian:
What is the context of that verse without checking your Bible offline or online?



This nonsense you are parroting never tire you?
Muhammad will be the first to Enter Paradise! Even before Jesus!

Mohammed said in your hadith that he will be the first to cross the bridge laid over hell according to the counsels of Allah. And I know he didn't make it out of hell. Your Quran says that there is not one of you who will not pass through hell. This is why I love your Allah. He pretends to be God, demands worship and tells you your destination in plain language. But you all are still following like zombies. He is making a mockery of you all. Use your brain and follow who knows the road. He (Jesus) is the road himself.

Ken4Christ:
Mohammed said in your hadith that he will be the first to cross the bridge laid over hell according to the counsels of Allah. And I know he didn't make it out of hell. Your Quran says that there is not one of you who will not pass through hell. This is why I love your Allah. He pretends to be God, demands worship and tells you your destination in plain language. But you all are still following like zombies. He is making a mockery of you all. Use your brain and follow who knows the road. He (Jesus) is the road himself.

I am telling you that Jesus and all his followers and other Prophets and their followers will enter paradise only after Muhammad salallahu alayhi wasalam! The last Prophet will be the first!

AntiChristian:
I am telling you that Jesus and all his followers and other Prophets and their followers will enter paradise only after Muhammad!

(SAW)