Yes another Anti Trinitarian thread, Just finished my work and was thinking of what I should write again that has intrigued me about the Anti Trinitarian stands. Oh I remembered, I was having some discussion with one called frank and one post he made is what I did like to bring up here.

This is his post

Frank4YAHWEH:
Yahshua said the FATHER was GREATER than he, so they can not be equal in that sense.

And rightly so, Yashua did say this:

John 14:28
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
KJV

Now this is my question to all you anti-trinitarian that don’t believe in the pre-existence of Yashua [are there anti Trinitarian that believe in Yashua’s pre-existence? ], in what FORM was Yashua when He made the above statement, as a Form of God or Form of a Servant?

Using this verse for a start

Phil 2:5-8
5 For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man.
8 He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross.

Douay-Rheims

[size=18pt]Now which is which: FORM OF GOD or FORM OF SERVANT when He made the statement that the Father was greater than Him? [/size]

Thanks

Update:
I update the topic to reflect what i intend to achieve about the divinity of Christ....

A certain boy came back from school one day and told his father that their math teacher taught them that 1+1+1=1. The father exclaimed, what nonsense! He did what other rational parent will do, he changed the son's school to a better one. This same man went to church and was told by the self acclaimed 'clergy man' that 1+1+1=1. The man asked the clergy man for more explanation and all he got was that its a mystery that he can't understand. This man went away with the belief that 1+1+1=1 (the father + the son + the holy spirit=1 god). The trinity doctrine is baseless and is not a scriptural teaching.

Hmm... Nice thread, subscribed!

uboma: A certain boy came back from school one day and told his father that their math teacher taught them that 1+1+1=1. The father exclaimed, what nonsense! He did what other rational parent will do, he changed the son's school to a better one. This same man went to church and was told by the self acclaimed 'clergy man' that 1+1+1=1. The man asked the clergy man for more explanation and all he got was that its a mystery that he can't understand. This man went away with the belief that 1+1+1=1 (the father + the son + the holy spirit=1 god). The trinity doctrine is baseless and is not a scriptural teaching.

Perfectly said Bro.

frosbel:


Perfectly said Bro.

Did you read what he said? Why not consider an explanation or prove your point.

uboma: A certain boy came back from school one day and told his father that their math teacher taught them that 1+1+1=1. The father exclaimed, what nonsense! He did what other rational parent will do, he changed the son's school to a better one. This same man went to church and was told by the self acclaimed 'clergy man' that 1+1+1=1. The man asked the clergy man for more explanation and all he got was that its a mystery that he can't understand. This man went away with the belief that 1+1+1=1 (the father + the son + the holy spirit=1 god). The trinity doctrine is baseless and is not a scriptural teaching.

Why not provide a rebuttal to the OP question on the preexistence of Christ instead of writing this ignorant thrash?

Exactly. Trying to use human wisdom to explain things of the Spirit. SMH

Bidam: Why not provide a rebuttal to the OP question on the preexistence of Christ instead of writing this ignorant thrash?

If only you had a high IQ, you will realize that from my first post, I addressed the op's question.

The Brain God gave us is not a decorative component of our make-up, it is there for a purpose, to be used for reasoning, thinking and making informed decisions based on fact.

The Trinitairans will always hide around the 'mystery' and 'spirit' words, which really is a veiled admittance on their part that the Trinity dogma is a nonsensical and illogical 'mystery' , which can only be explained by highly educated scholars , Phd bible students or confused adherents.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles." - Romans 1;18-21

The above scripture is a serious indictment against Trinitarians and all those who try to twist the person of GOD into Pagan myths and fables.

1. God has made it plain to all creatures, not just Christians.
2. His divine nature has clearly been seen
3. These polytheists remake God into a Pagan image , " to look like a mortal human being ".


Note, God referred to exclusively as immortal as opposed to Man who is referred to as Mortal.


Any suggestion that remakes God into a mortal being is blasphemy , and I advice caution in your pushing of this Pagan illogic too far, and possibly to your destruction.

uboma:

If only you had a high IQ, you will realize that from my first post, I addressed the op's question.

What i read there was you explaining God rationally instead of using scriptures.Are you an atheist?

Bidam: Why not provide a rebuttal to the OP question on the preexistence of Christ instead of writing this ignorant thrash?

He actually makes more sense than all the nonsense and mathematical defiance of logic , that you and your churchianity friends try to deceptively pass off as truth.

I guess we do not have the spirit, hence our inability to comprehend such 'simple' truths,lol.

frosbel:


He actually makes more sense than all the nonsense and mathematical defiance of logic , that you and your churchianity friends try to deceptively pass off as truth.

I guess we do not have the spirit, hence our inability to comprehend such 'simple' truths,lol.

Define God mathematically lets see.Even Physics told us energy can be transformed not created nor destroyed can you explain that?

uboma:

If only you had a high IQ, you will realize that from my first post, I addressed the op's question.

IQ for the things of the Spirit? Then why do professors not believe in Jesus?

frosbel: The Brain God gave us is not a decorative component of our make-up, it is there for a purpose, to be used for reasoning, thinking and making informed decisions based on fact.

The Trinitairans will always hide around the 'mystery' and 'spirit' words, which really is a veiled admittance on their part that the Trinity dogma is a nonsensical and illogical 'mystery' , which can only be explained by highly educated scholars , Phd bible students or confused adherents.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles." - Romans 1;18-21

The above scripture is a serious indictment against Trinitarians and all those who try to twist the person of GOD into Pagan myths and fables.

1. God has made it plain to all creatures, not just Christians.
2. His divine nature has clearly been seen
3. These polytheists remake God into a Pagan image , " to look like a mortal human being ".


Note, God referred to exclusively as immortal as opposed to Man who is referred to as Mortal.


Any suggestion that remakes God into a mortal being is blasphemy , and I advice caution in your pushing of this Pagan illogic too far, and possibly to your destruction.

From the above scripture you gave, we can further explain the trinity.

frosbel: The Brain God gave us is not a decorative component of our make-up, it is there for a purpose, to be used for reasoning, thinking and making informed decisions based on fact.

The Trinitairans will always hide around the 'mystery' and 'spirit' words, which really is a veiled admittance on their part that the Trinity dogma is a nonsensical and illogical 'mystery' , which can only be explained by highly educated scholars , Phd bible students or confused adherents.

"18 The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19 since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles." - Romans 1;18-21

The above scripture is a serious indictment against Trinitarians and all those who try to twist the person of GOD into Pagan myths and fables.

1. God has made it plain to all creatures, not just Christians.
2. His divine nature has clearly been seen
3. These polytheists remake God into a Pagan image , " to look like a mortal human being ".


Note, God referred to exclusively as immortal as opposed to Man who is referred to as Mortal.


Any suggestion that remakes God into a mortal being is blasphemy , and I advice caution in your pushing of this Pagan illogic too far, and possibly to your destruction.

You are dodging the OP questions by talking nonsense here.Is Christ preexistence in the form of God or servant? Pls provide a rebuttal using valid scriptures and not those thrash you put up there.

Bidam: You are dodging the OP questions by talking nonsense here.Is Christ preexistence in the form of God or servant? Pls provide a rebuttal using valid scriptures and not those thrash you put up there.

You think I have time to keep repeating myself from article to article.

This has been addressed in numerous articles on this forum and beyond, if you are confused on this issue I advice you do some research and not adhere to already made-up dogmas, not all of us have time to keep repeating ourselves , do some work.

My statement is an intentional rebuttal of this madness called the Trinity.

If time permits, I will try and do some justice to the question , no guarantee however , for now :


[size=14pt]JESUS CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST.[/size]

uboma: A certain boy came back from school one day and told his father that their math teacher taught them that 1+1+1=1. The father exclaimed, what nonsense! He did what other rational parent will do, he changed the son's school to a better one. This same man went to church and was told by the self acclaimed 'clergy man' that 1+1+1=1. The man asked the clergy man for more explanation and all he got was that its a mystery that he can't understand. This man went away with the belief that 1+1+1=1 (the father + the son + the holy spirit=1 god). The trinity doctrine is baseless and is not a scriptural teaching.

WRONG + WRONGER + WRONGEST = WRONGEREST

kindly present scriptures please else

WRONG + WRONGER + WRONGEST = WRONGEREST

uboma:

If only you had a high IQ, you will realize that from my first post, I addressed the op's question.

so wrong, reread the post and answer... Which is Which?

frosbel:


He actually makes more sense than all the nonsense and mathematical defiance of logic , that you and your churchianity friends try to deceptively pass off as truth.

I guess we do not have the spirit, hence our inability to comprehend such 'simple' truths,lol.

hmm see worldly wisdom that is coming to naught....
@frosbel, i asked thee to compare scripture with scripture and you are here saying that what i asked of thee is nonsense and mathematical defiance of logic....

idnoble135:
IQ for the things of the Spirit? Then why do professors not believe in Jesus?

+100000 likes

frosbel:

You think I have time to keep repeating myself from article to article.

This has been addressed in numerous articles on this forum and beyond, if you are confused on this issue I advice you do some research and not adhere to already made-up dogmas, not all of us have time to keep repeating ourselves , do some work.

My statement is an intentional rebuttal of this madness called the Trinity.

If time permits, I will try and do some justice to the question , no guarantee however , for now :


[size=14pt]JESUS CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST.[/size]

Usual ranting of frsobel when he cant reply and then gives a conclusion as this [size=14pt]JESUS CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST.[/size]

hisblud:

Usual ranting of frsobel when he cant reply and then gives a conclusion as this [size=14pt]JESUS CHRIST DID NOT PRE-EXIST.[/size]

frosbel, im sorry, i disagree with you that jesus did not pre-exist, but that discussion will be ironed out maybe you create another thread then i join you there, to avoid distraction here and not neccesarily be at loggerhead with you which may cause the discussion boring,

because i do agree with some good points you do have on the false trinity teaching which is unscriptural!

yes, i will mention the form that jesus pre-existed, and you may not yet agree or convinced, but let us treat that on another tread, i ll join you there! thanks

Coupled with the scriptures, there has never been anyone with a genuine divine experience that doubts the point the OP is trying to explain.

hisblud: Yes another Anti Trinitarian thread, Just finished my work and was thinking of what I should write again that has intrigued me about the Anti Trinitarian stands. Oh I remembered, I was having some discussion with one called frank and one post he made is what I did like to bring up here.

This is his post




And rightly so, Yashua did say this:



Now this is my question to all you anti-trinitarian that don’t believe in the pre-existence of Yashua [are there anti Trinitarian that believe in Yashua’s pre-existence? ], in what FORM was Yashua when He made the above statement, as a Form of God or Form of a Servant?

Using this verse for a start



[size=18pt]Now which is which: FORM OF GOD or FORM OF SERVANT when He made the statement that the Father was greater than Him? [/size]

Thanks

malachi 3:1 gave us the hint of what form that jesus pre-existed;


"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom you seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even [b]the messenger of the covenant, whom you delight in[/b]: behold, he shall come, says the LORD of hosts".

God which is the father rightly reffered to jesus his son jesus as ' messenger of the covenant' note that he is still yet to sent jesus while he was making this pronouncement, yet he reffered to jesus while in heaven as 'my messenger.........shall come'

this shows you that he was not equal with the father!

jesus emptied himself 'by being obedient to go for an errand proposed by the father'(submission)

now when did jesus took the form of a servant? below shows that it was when he was made lower than the angels

hebrew 2:9

King James Bible

"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death"....,

also i want you to correct a concept of 'form of servant' there is nothing like form of servant,;

#a, God creates[b] phisical bodies like that of human and animals.....that is a form[/b] so,we have human messengers.

#b, also, spiritual and invincible bodies with a choice appearance often in 'flames of fire' that is another form of which God, jesus and the angels appeared, so we have spiritual messengers.

2 Thessalonians 1:7,8

And you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire [/b]taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.


[b]God revealed on his throne as in flames of fire

"For our God is a consuming fire." (Heb 12:29); "His throne was a flame of fire" (Dan 7:9); "the appearance of the Lord was like a blazing fire" (Ex 24:17).

so, jesus took an inferior form when he 'took a human form' bodily

objection?

SMH.

Reserving my comment. Lemme get you clearly. So because Bible says our God is a consuming fire means he is a fire? So Jesus was made with fire?

If Jesus was in the form of God, and you claim Jesus existed as fire before taking up flesh. That means God too exist as a fire?

What do you think scripture meant by "messenger of the covenant"?
I have many questions. So, so, many.

idnoble135: If Jesus was in the form of God, and you claim Jesus existed as fire before taking up flesh. That means God too exist as a fire?

Don't mind him,he has forgotten to quote the scripture that says ministers too are flames of fire.

Sorry guys, I am mega busy at work, if you have time, read attached article .

OP,

I will clearly state to you that it is an act of total submission. In so, He is both God and Servant and also HE PRE-EXISTED. Mind you, I also had the notion that He did not pre-exist till I did a full bible self study... I used to think the post of Jesus was vacant... but occupied in the spirit self till a worthy angel rose up to the position but I later got the full revelation from the bible... Read On!

In as much as He is both God and man, which is Mortal and immortal, physical and spiritual, He is both God and Servant. He walked on the waters like a God... Moreso, he washed the feet of His disciples like a servant... He said we will do much more than what he did... talking like a God, moreso, He said he came to do the wish of someone that sent him... like a servant.

Phil 2:5-11
Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father

Col 1:16-17
For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Heb 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin

1 John 4:2-3
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God:Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God:and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world

If you are still confused, let me know so I can pray for you.