₦airaland Forum

Sand2022:
As the Head the Father is credited with many things, even the things Jesus did himself. This doesn't change their shared nature and shared glory.

Another point is that Jesus was in the flesh. He was doing two things at the same time. Sometimes he responds from his human nature, at another he asserts who he is from his divine nature. For eg, he did say that God made them male and female in the book of Matthew. However, who actually did the creating? It was him. But at other times at John 17:5, he stated he shares glory with God at His side. That would be wrong had he been just a creature.

Sand2022:
4. Clear Evidence of Worship to Jesus:

As if all that is not enough, we see more evidence that Jesus is worshipped.

As Stephen was about to die, see what happened.

Acts 7
As they were stoning Stephen, he made this appeal: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” 60 Then, kneeling down, he cried out with a strong voice: “Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them.” And after saying this, he fell asleep in death."

Verse 59 is clearly a prayer to Jesus to receive his spirit. Does the bible not tell us that after we die, the spirit returns to God who made it? But now Stephen is showing through his prayer to Jesus that he, Jesus receives the spirit as well. You keep noticing that almost everything attributed to Jehovah is being done by Jesus as well. That Stephen prayed to Jesus is evident that the early Christians viewed Jesus as God. So when Thomas called him " My Lord and My God", he meant it that Jesus was indeed his God.

Verse 60, Stephen prayed and said 'Jehovah, do not charge this sin against them'. This is another example where the JW leadership shows hatred for Christ deity.

NWT claims that they only import "Jehovah" where there is a quotation from the Hebrew scriptures where the divine name occured. Well, here Stephen is not quoting any Hebrew scriptures. Yet they added "Jehovah" here. Check the JW Interlinear, you will see that what occured here is "Lord", not "Jehovah". The same Lord that occured in verse 59. So Stephen is also here praying to Jesus to forgive his killers. If you want to study Bible, don't use the New World Translation.

Does Jesus answer prayer? Listen as Jesus answers you.

John 14
13 Also, whatever you ask in my name, I will do this, so that the Father may be glorified in connection with the Son. 14 If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.

You see things being credited to Jehovah being done by Jesus as well. A creature cannot do this friends. Jesus is God. But the Father occupies a higher role, but it is just that, a role. Nothing more. Perhaps why God revealed the Son was so that we also know that as we worship Him, He is not the only one receiving the glory.

Let's see more evidence.

4. The same worship given to Jehovah is the same given to Jesus.

Last but not the least is a worship given to Jesus in heaven. The JW leadership says that Proskyneo for Jesus can't be translated worship. Well, Rev 5 proves that to be false in a clear way.

Starting from chapter 5:8, Jesus worship started, we read:

"When he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell down before the Lamb, and each one had a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense. (The incense means the prayers of the holy ones.) 9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” 11 And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 and they were saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb who was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.” 13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” 14 The four living creatures were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshipped."

Did you notice that every creature in heaven and on earth pertook of this praiseful worship of both Jesus and Jehovah? This shows that Jesus is not a creature. Can you imagine everyone both in heaven and on earth singing this praises and Jesus stood with Jehovah receiving this glory from everyone? Yet someone says that Jesus is just a creature like all of us? Like seriously? Will that not be tantamount to creature worship? And the context even exempted Jesus from being among the every creature here.

Then take note of the final verse, the four living creatures worshipped. Friends, that word there is Greek proskyneo. The same worship to God is given to Jesus also.

Let me state this finally. JWs believe that Jesus is possess a Divine Nature. But that his divine nature is simply spirit nature and nothing more. Well, the evidence I have has shown that Jesus is not a mere created Angel, but a Deity. His Godship is not a title like angels do have "God" as a title. Jesus is worshipped, and as such, a Deity.

*1
@ Acts 7:59, the Greek word is Epikaleo (Greek lexicon 1941), in the screenshots was Epikaleo referenced as prayer to Jesus Christ?

The screenshot of Trinitarian Bible scholars said No.
The same Greek word Epikaleo was referenced @Acts 25:21,25, Acts 26:32, Paul the apostle "appeals to Caesar".
Was he praying to Caesar?
No !


*2
John 5:19,31 Jesus said " I CAN NOT DO a single thing of my own initiative ... Just as the Father taught me I do these things" (John 8:28 "& John 14:14, will Jesus do anything without his Father's consent?
Why would Jesus need the consent of another Superior Being prior to doing anything?
Trinitarians will dodge this poser.

Aemmyjah:
How many God are there?

Janosky:
Trinitarian scholar, Bill Mounce Bible commentary:
"@ Colossians 2:9 Jesus Christ is NOT fully God"


3 deities polytheists confused by the invention of pagans at Nicene 326 AD.

Oga , you don't reason with your own Bible.
1 Corinthians 11:3However, I want you to realize that Christ has authority over every man, a husband has authority over his wife, and God has authority over Christ.

Good News Translation
But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ."
"I want you to understand.....The God is supreme over Christ."

Oga,your mind has been programmed by the delusion invented at Nicene.

Please carry your WAILING and conflicting delusion outta this thread .

Tetraozonaitera:
This is where you guys got it wrong.

You believe Trinity means three Gods
The same your Awake and Watchtower have preached over and over again.
If there are a group of Christians telling you Trinity means 3 Gods then they are in Error.

They really dont know what they preach.

There is no God but Jehovah
His Spirit is inseparable from Him
And His son is inseparable from Him also.

The three are One.

You can quote your Watchtower belief till tomorrow. It cant change the truth.

Separating Jesus from Jehovah is an Error by you.
Everywhere the Father is there also is the Son and the Spurit and everywhere the son is there you'll find the Father and the Spirit.

Janosky:
*1
@ Acts 7:59, the Greek word is Epikaleo (Greek lexicon 1941), in the screenshots was Epikaleo referenced as prayer to Jesus Christ?

The screenshot of Trinitarian Bible scholars said No.
The same Greek word Epikaleo was referenced @Acts 25:21,25, Acts 26:32, Paul the apostle "appeals to Caesar".
Was he praying to Caesar?
No !


*2
John 5:19,31 Jesus said " I CAN NOT DO a single thing of my own initiative ... Just as the Father taught me I do these things" (John 8:28 "& John 14:14, will Jesus do anything without his Father's consent?
Why would Jesus need the consent of another Superior Being prior to doing anything?
Trinitarians will dodge this poser.


*3
@ Revelation 5:13-14, (screenshot evidence) did your fellow Trinitarian, Bishop moniker debunk your FALSE claim ?

Yes of course!
Worship was NOT given to Jesus.


Someone is just desperate to water down the holy scriptures for the sake of a man made invention at Nicene in 326 AD.

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 11:3 is in your Bible.
But has NEVER been in your heart.
But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ."
"I want you to understand.....The God is supreme over Christ.
Oga, how many distinct persons do you worship?

A spirit person is a being.

The deception of trinity was lumping them together & attach the FALSE claim of equality.

Polytheists posing as followers of Christ.

The screenshot evidence is the handiwork of your fellow Trinitarians.

The matter tire them

Aemmyjah:
How many God are there?

Janosky:
1 Corinthians 11:3 is in your Bible.
But has NEVER been in your heart.
But I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ."
"I want you to understand.....The God is supreme over Christ.
Oga, how many distinct persons do you worship?

A spirit person is a being.

The deception of trinity was lumping them together & attach the FALSE claim of equality.

Polytheists posing as followers of Christ.

The screenshot evidence is the handiwork of your fellow Trinitarians.

The matter tire them

Tetraozonaitera:
Only One God
Only One Son
Only One Spirit

All are one.

E shock u?

Aemmyjah:
3 different things you mentioned and you say they are one

Is the Son God?
Is God ever addressed as Son?

Tetraozonaitera:
Correction please!
They are personalities not things.

Like the existence of God is a mystery, the creation of the world from pronounced words is a mystery, the virgin Mary getting pregnant without human intervention is a mystery, the witch falling off my window in the middle of the night when the Holy Spirit woke me up suddenly crying like a bird and seeing me the following morning running back into her house a mystery, so also is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit being one a mystery.

Why must you find that so hard to comprehend?

Aemmyjah:
😂
Someone who believes in a mystery or mysteries is trying to teach someone
What a shame!

Tetraozonaitera:
You guys always run away from the truth because your brains have been programmed by Watchtower to be so.

Tetraozonaitera:
‭‭Revelation 5:13 NIV‬‬
[13] Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”

https://bible.com/bible/111/rev.5.13.NIV

WHAT WOULD MAKE EVERY CREATURE IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH WORSHIP GOD AND THE LAMB. GIVING THE TWO OF THEM PRAISE, HONOR, AND POWER FOR EVER AND EVER.

WHY DIDNT THEY DO THE SAME TO ANGEL GABRIEL OR MICHAEL?
WHAT MAKES THE LAMB SO SPECIAL TO RECEIVE THE SAME PRAISE GIVEN TO GOD?

What is the command Jesus sent the angel to deliver to John the apostle at Revelation 19:10?

Oga read that verse & put that command in your heart & in your head.
Oga DO NOT worship any Lamb.
Revelation 19:10 is enough for you.

Tetraozonaitera:
IF YOU DONT KNOW THE ANSWERS TO ALL THESE SIMPLE QUESTION, CONSULT WATCHTOWER IN NEW YORK.

AS YOU GUYS CANT REASON ON YOUR OWN.
[/b]
THEY DO THE REASONING FOR YOU GUYS

Oga Tetraozonaitera have REASONED ON HIS YOUR OWN TO WORSHIP 2 Spirits in heaven - FATHER and SON.
His DISOBEDIENCE against The God @Revelation19:10. JOHN 1:1 & Acts 3:13.
( Check & verify the Greek lexicon of Revelation 19:10. John 1:1. Acts 3:13. ONLY the Father is the God 'ho Theos.
Worship ONLY 'ho Theos' the God, John was commanded @ Revelation 19:10)
IDOL worshippers confused by Trinitarian delusion do not worship the God of Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Tetraozonaitera:
AND CHECK THIS ALSO;

‭‭John 14:13 NIV‬‬
[13] And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

https://bible.com/bible/111/jhn.14.13.NIV

HOW WILL YOU ASK THE FATHER SOMETHING IN THE NAME OF THE SON AND IT IS THE SON DOING IT?
Remember Jesus was leaving the earth when He said this. That means after He must have left, if you pray to the Father in heaven in His name He Jesus will do it.

WHAT GIVES HIM SUCH AN AUTHOURITY TO STAND IN THE PLACE OF THE FATHER EVEN WHEN HE RESIDES WITH THE FATHER IN HEAVEN?

[b]John 5:19,31 Jesus said " I CAN NOT DO a single thing of my own initiative ... Just as the Father taught me I do these things" (John 8:28 "& John 14:14, will Jesus do anything without God his Father's consent?
No !

@ John 5:19,31 & Psalm 103:20-21= John 14:13,24.
Jesus Christ said he "can NOT do a single thing" to your prayers unless God his Father commands him to perform the task to answer you.

In effect, Jesus Christ is a angel ,a servant OBEYING the voice , the WILL and COMMAND of God his Father (Senior) @ John 14:13,24.

You either get the understanding that John 5:19,31 & Psalm 103:20-21= John 14:13,24.
OR
You are programmed by Trinitarian delusion invented at Nicene 326 AD & won't ever get understanding.

achorladey:
The werey peddling brains will keep running to the truth of Trinitarian Bible scholars as evidence to support his beliefs and still use his same werey peddling brains to state they are liars.....

You can see him dragging with those he said worship DOGHEADS as part of your you will never have order in your life.

Sifia pains of a WAILER

The Greek word "Epikaleo" @ Acts 25:21,25 & Acts 7:59 is not a prayer to anyone.
Oga continue WAILING louder , come & borrow my loudspeaker
Achorladey WAILER get liver to argue with Trinitarian Bible scholars exposing his desperation and delusion?

Go & disprove their evidences against your Trinitarian delusion.
Personal attacks and insults against JW's just to save face.

Tetraozonaitera:
This is where you guys got it wrong.

You believe Trinity means three Gods

The same your Awake and Watchtower have preached over and over again.
If there are a group of Christians telling you Trinity means 3 Gods then they are in Error.

Your Trinitarian mentors said they are 3 different personalities.

A person is a being,Oga receive sense

Tetraozonaitera:
They really dont know what they preach.

There is no God but Jehovah
His Spirit is inseparable from Him
And His son is inseparable from Him also.

The three are One.

Jesus said Two are one (his Father & Christ).
But you added an extra.
Your personal opinion, not holy scriptures.
John 17:11.

Tetraozonaitera:
You can quote your Watchtower belief till tomorrow. It cant change the truth.

Separating Jesus from Jehovah is an Error by you.
Everywhere the Father is there also is the Son and the Holy Spirit and everywhere the son is there you'll find the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Aemmyjah:
😂
Someone who believes in a mystery or mysteries is trying to teach someone
What a shame!

Janosky:

Sifia pains of a WAILER

The Greek word "Epikaleo" @ Acts 25:21,25 & Acts 7:59 is not a prayer to anyone.
Oga continue WAILING louder , come & borrow my loudspeaker
Achorladey WAILER get liver to argue with Trinitarian Bible scholars exposing his desperation and delusion?

Go & disprove their evidences against your Trinitarian delusion.
Personal attacks and insults against JW's just to save face.

Emusan:
Even husband and wife coming together to be ONE was considered A MYSTERY which Paul even pictures the relationship between Christ and His Church with.

And I'm very sure you believes in this SAME MYSTERY as well.

How much more the mystery OF GOD spoken of many times in the scriptures.

You want to make it sound as if saying God is a MYSTERY is a taboo to the scripture.

Emusan:
Even husband and wife coming together to be ONE was considered A MYSTERY which Paul even pictures the relationship between Christ and His Church with.

And I'm very sure you believes in this SAME MYSTERY as well.

How much more the mystery OF GOD spoken of many times in the scriptures.

You want to make it sound as if saying God is a MYSTERY is a taboo to the scripture.

Aemmyjah:
Go and worship your mysterious god

We worship who we know John 4:22

Aemmyjah:
Go and worship your mysterious god

We worship who we know John 4:22

Aemmyjah:
He was teaching people to worship a God he did not understand?

Where did he call him a mysterious God?

Emusan:
Even husband and wife coming together to be ONE was considered A MYSTERY which Paul even pictures the relationship between Christ and His Church with. And I'm very sure you believes in this SAME MYSTERY as well. How much more the mystery OF GOD spoken of many times in the scriptures. You want to make it sound as if saying God is a MYSTERY is a taboo to the scripture.

Emusan:
Now you're changing mouth.

Was it about understanding or God being a MYSTERY?



The word MYSTERY as translated appeared more than 5 times which include Christ, God e.t.c

Search for that key word and stop being spoonfed all the time.

MaxInDHouse:
You may be offended with the way some of us responds to your comments i want you to know that such happens when people gets irritated but according to our own translation of the Bible our God is not connected to MYSTERY rather it's Babylon The Great which is the world empire of false religion that's connected to MYSTERY:

On her forehead was written a name, a MYSTERY: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” Revelations 17:5

No servant of Jehovah from Abel to Jesus and till today can agree with you that our God is a mystery rather what we will tell you is that there are SACRED SECRETS that he has not revealed to us! Matthew 24:36

So if you see anyone promoting MYSTERY in the name of his God ask him or her:

If your God is a MYSTERY to you how do you think you can convince others to wholeheartedly love and trust this MYSTERIOUS God you are speaking for? Mark 12:29-30

You may be offended with the way some of us responds to your comments

I want you to know that such happens when people gets irritated

but according to our own translation of the Bible our God is not connected to MYSTERY

Moreover, when the term “mystery” appears in the Scriptures, it does not have the meaning of “hidden knowledge,” as it is usually understood. As Théo rightly reminds us: “The term mystery does not have the same sense here. For Christians it denotes something that is normally hidden or inaccessible, but that God wants to say to them . . . and have them experience.”

The Greek word my·steʹri·on (“mystery,” or “sacred secret”) was employed 20 times by the apostle Paul in a particular sense. He used it in reference to a sacred secret that had long been hidden but that God revealed when He sent Jesus to earth.

rather it's Babylon The Great which is the world empire of false religion that's connected to MYSTERY:

On her forehead was written a name, a MYSTERY: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.” Revelations 17:5

No servant of Jehovah from Abel to Jesus and till today can agree with you that our God is a mystery

The Bible does give us many details about God as a Person, about his qualities and about how he deals with mankind. But it also explains that his wisdom and intelligence are beyond human understanding. Thus, the prophet Isaiah says that God’s ways and thoughts are much higher than those of man.​—Isaiah 55:8, 9.

The impossibility of knowing every single thing about God should not surprise us. For example, even though our knowledge of the universe is constantly increasing, scientists admit that they will probably never truly get to the bottom of the mysteries of the infinitely small or the infinitely large. So how could any creature know completely the depth of God’s wisdom, he who is the Creator? Job confessed to Jehovah: “I was not understanding things too wonderful for me, which I do not know.” (Job 42:3; compare Romans 11:33.) Thus, full knowledge of God is, in some respects, beyond our limited understanding. However, the doctrines of many churches go beyond the limits of these simple observations.

rather what we will tell you is that there are SACRED SECRETS that he has not revealed to us! Matthew 24:36

So if you see anyone promoting MYSTERY in the name of his God ask him or her:

If your God is a MYSTERY to you how do you think you can convince others to wholeheartedly love and trust this MYSTERIOUS God you are speaking for? Mark 12:29-30

By faith we perceive that the systems of things were put in order by God’s word, so that what is seen has come into existence from things that are not visible.

If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar. For the one who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21 And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.

Aemmyjah:
Where did Paul describe God as a mysterious God?
Did you see in Bible or Papa told you?

Emusan:
Now you're changing mouth.

Was it about understanding or God being a MYSTERY?



The word MYSTERY as translated appeared more than 5 times which include Christ, God e.t.c

Search for that key word and stop being spoonfed all the time.

achorladey:
You don't have to see him to love him not to talk of comprehending the essence of God being God.

MaxInDHouse:
This is not about SEEING God but having an accurate knowledge of His purposes.
To illustrate you can imagine a blind couple, of course they can't describe each other's appearance like those seeing them but nobody else can perfectly understand them like they know each other.
Abraham has never seen his God for once {John 1:18} but he could say about the God who called him out of Ur:

"It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner" Genesis 18:25

Surely Abraham can speak convincingly about this God whom he can't even see!

Moses said God is One person {Deuteronomy 6:4} and Jesus said the same thing {Mark 12:29} then it simply means those worshiping this God must have the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10

But when talking about a MYSTERIOUS God it means countless sects with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines are good to go since the God in question is MYSTERIOUS so there is no way to figure out what exactly He requires of His worshipers.

That's what Revelations 17:5 means.

This is not about SEEING God but having an accurate knowledge of His purposes.

Now concerning food offered to idols: We know we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up.+ 2 If anyone thinks he knows something, he does not yet know it as he should know it. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by him.

To illustrate you can imagine a blind couple, of course they can't describe each other's appearance like those seeing them but nobody else can perfectly understand them like they know each other.

Abraham has never seen his God for once {John 1:18} but he could say about the God who called him out of Ur:

"It is unthinkable that you would act in this manner" Genesis 18:25

Surely Abraham can speak convincingly about this God whom he can't even see!

Moses said God is One person {Deuteronomy 6:4} and Jesus said the same thing {Mark 12:29} then it simply means those worshiping this God must have the same line of thought! John 17:22 compare to 1Corinthians 1:10

But when talking about a MYSTERIOUS God it means countless sects with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines are good to go since the God in question is MYSTERIOUS so there is no way to figure out what exactly He requires of His worshipers.

That's what Revelations 17:5 means