If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. - Christianity Etc (9)

If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. - Christianity Etc (9) - Nairaland

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Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:50am On Oct 26, 2024

freshboi88:
Let me turn your logic against you

Rev 19:12
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

It says Jesus has a name on him that no one knew but himself..does that mean the Father doesn't know the name

Who gave him? Matthew 28:18 undecided

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by freshboi88: 9:17am On Oct 26, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
Who gave him? Matthew 28:18

Very typical of you, jumping from Scripture to Scripture. Okay let me apply your jumping technique. Jesus knows all things John 16:30

2 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:23pm On Oct 26, 2024

freshboi88:
Very typical of you, jumping from Scripture to Scripture. Okay let me apply your jumping technique. Jesus knows all things John 16:30

OK nah! Matthew 24:36 cheesy

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 3:35pm On Oct 26, 2024

TemmyT002:
But he never for once made himself equal to his father.
He PRAYED to his father
If they were equals, he didn't need to pray.
It was his father who raised him from the dead. He didn't raise himself.
His father used him to create the universe. He didn't create it himself.
He said, He is the way. The way means there is still a destination. The father is the destination.
He said no one comes to the father except through him. Meaning his father is greater than he is.
He said, "In my father's house, there are many mansions."
He didn't say, "In my house, there are many mansions."

You never addressee any of my point above

Why?

Do you honor Jesus JUST AS you honor the Father?

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Emusan(m): 3:39pm On Oct 26, 2024

TemmyT002:
It was his father who gave him a name that is above every other name. He didn't give himself.

He existed along side of the Father BEFORE CREATION.

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by achorladey: 7:16am On Oct 27, 2024

freshboi88:
Very typical of you, jumping from Scripture to Scripture. Okay let me apply your jumping technique. Jesus knows all things John 16:30

The scripture stated Jesus has that fellow came back asking who gave him grin

That's how they look for way to deflect when the tactics they use is returned back

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:07am On Oct 28, 2024

Emusan:
You never addressee any of my point above

Why?

Do you honor Jesus JUST AS you honor the Father?

"Honor your Father and your mother "
"Honor Jesus just as you honor the Father"
Yet, the hierarchy @1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13 is irreversible and irrevocable.

Freshboi, does your honoring Jesus change anything @
1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13?

Whether you keep WAILING & throwing tantrums about honoring Jesus, 1 Corinthians 11:3 & Hebrew 6:13 is sacrosanct.

Confused Trinitarians and woke IBERIBEISM are very inseparable.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:15am On Oct 28, 2024

freshboi88:
Very typical of you, jumping from Scripture to Scripture. Okay let me apply your jumping technique. Jesus knows all things John 16:30

The disciples, imperfect men said "Jesus knows all things".

Two times Jesus Christ the perfect man their Master disagrees, @Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:8.

Your WAILING upandan doesn't change anything @ @Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:8.

Freshboi please ,use 1 Corinthians 11:3 to caution yourself and shun your IBERIBEISM

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:18am On Oct 28, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
OK nah! Matthew 24:36

These MUMU dummy Trinitarians deceiving themselves as if the imperfect disciples claim at John 16:30 would supercede Jesus rebuttal at Acts 1:8 & Matthew 24:36.

Very low IQ dullards.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:25am On Oct 28, 2024*

Gabrielshow24:
You didn't do justice here.
He(God) didn't call Moses God, He(God) made him(Moses) like God unto his brother(Aaron)

The way you presented it warranted his demeaning reply

In the Hebrew manuscript @ Exodus 7:1, God (Yahweh) called Moses God"
But English Bible translators opted for this rendition:
He(God) made him(Moses) like God unto his brother(Aaron)"

"Like " is not in the Hebrew text.
But added for clarity on the basis of Psalm 82:6.
"Like God" meaning the same as "a god" (or godlike).
Screenshot evidences.

Let me point out an interesting fact about Psalm 45:6,(copied at Hebrew 1:8. ).
Pls pay attention to see that the NET Bible's Exodus 7:1footnote debunks Trinitarian rendition of Hebrew 1:8 in the new testament.
The correct rendition of Hebrew 1:8 debunks Trinitarian belief.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:45am On Oct 28, 2024

Emusan:
He existed along side of the Father BEFORE CREATION.

Micah 5:2 Hebrew text.
His (Jesus) ORIGIN (beginning) is of old, from the days of yore."

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 12:54am On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
The verses you quoted show the relationship between God and Jesus didn't I not mention the "flow" in my previous write up?

Firstborn of creation is a figurative speech to depict the fact that he is the heir of God and what better way to draw similitude than to use 'first born" which men can relate to.

Let me give you this example.
When you were in secondary school didn't you have seniors.
Yes you did and you called them " senior this " " senior that" but when you were done with school.

You relate with them rather differently(in some cases you start to call them by their names while in some introduction of clever addresses - my boss, oga etc without mentioning their names). The end result being that you still give them the(hint of it)respect! (All things being equal)

Hence no one disputes the fact that Jesus is dependent on the Father.

In fact he said "he can do nothing save whatsoever he sees his Father do"

But at some point after doing the things of the Father in the same way the Father does them.
You become adept; at that time we can call you "Master".

That's why the bible records of him attaining the fullness of the Father!

As regards creation it's very evident from scriptures that Christ predates creation.

Since time is a concept in creation.
Christ likewise predates space and time.

That's why we don't use the term "created" for the son!

Because he was, he is and he is still to come!!!

No Sir.

The expression "First born of creation" is not a figure of speech.

The word first born is a common expression in the old and new testaments.
From Genesis to Revelation, every first born is a creature,no exceptions.
"The first born of God" at Hebrew 1:6a is not a figure of speech.

God his Father is also the Father of all.

We can't say the first born of every child is not a child.
Therefore, Jesus the first born of every creature is himself a creature. Micah 5:2 Hebrew text.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 1:09am On Oct 28, 2024

Sand2022:
While he is God, he is not the same person as God the Father. This has always been the misunderstanding among JWs. The Trinity holds that they are of the same nature. That is the major point.

I have addressed this issue of not knowing when the end will come above. Jesus plays two roles. He restrained himself of many things while in the flesh. He emptied himself as recorded at Phil 2:5-6

With regards to Jesus saying God good. Well, I don't think you mean that Jesus is not good. Is that your point? Take note also that Jesus is the called the ONLY Potentate at 1tim 6. Is Jesus the only Sovereign?

I don't see how all that changes anything. By saying "different entities", it appears you hold to Modalism, that is what JWs preach against. They teach less about the core traditional teaching of Trinity. To the church teaching that the father and Jesus are the same entity is heresy. So I agree with you that such teaching is false

Jesus Christ is a spirit being and Jehovah his Father is another spirit being.
You say Jesus is God Almighty, therefore by your admission his Father is also God Almighty, this is the deception embedded in the Trinitarian belief system.

Sharing the same essence does NOT make Jesus and his Father Jehovah to be one being, which Trinitarians FALSELY claim they are.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 1:16am On Oct 28, 2024

Brenbentondiaz:
So, Jesus in Revelation was still in human form, right? For your own sake I hope it's either you are taking the piss, or you were feeling sleepy when you typed this response.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 1:23am On Oct 28, 2024*

Sand2022:
If by produce, you mean created, you are contradicting a scripture there. All that was created, all, I mean, all came from Jesus. That is what John 1:3 says. So it is scripturally wrong to use the word create for Jesus.

Later this week you go climb platform deceiving yourself.

Hebrew 1:2 & John 1:3THROUGH him (the agency of Jesus Christ)
The same word at John 1:3. 1 Corinthians 8:6. Colosians 1:16,
Jesus Christ is NOT the First Cause.
Jehovah God his Father is the First Cause/Principal Cause.
Jesus his son is the Instrumental cause.
Oga Sand,Bible hub screenshot evidence rebutes your false claims.
Note that Biblehub are your fellow Trinitarians . ;
Like All sons, Jesus came from God his Father & Creator.
"ALL things came from the God"

Hebrew 1:2.1 Corinthians 8:6 & 1 Timothy 6:13, even 1 Corinthians 11:12 no dey your Bible?

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:54am On Oct 28, 2024

Janosky:
These MUMU dummy Trinitarians deceiving themselves as if the imperfect disciples claim at John 16:30 would supercede Jesus rebuttal at Acts 1:8 & Matthew 24:36.
Very low IQ dullards.

A Nairalander once said about MaxInDhouse:

SeniorMan715:
The way you explain and answer questions, sometimes i wonder if truly you are a human or an angel. You know everything.

So even when MaxInDhouse told this man that he doesn't know everything Max shouldn't be taken seriously rather the Nairalander is right!

2 Likes

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:24am On Oct 28, 2024

Brenbentondiaz:
So, Jesus in Revelation was still in human form, right? For your own sake I hope it's either you are taking the piss, or you were feeling sleepy when you typed this response.

When WISDOM is missing then you'll see how imperfect humans can be easily confused with letters! 2Corinthians 3:6 compare to Hosea 4:6

There are two humans in the Bible called "God"

Moses {Exodus 7:1} and Jesus {John 1:1} both of them are not false just as we can't say a trained and certified medical doctor is a FAKE doctor. The training both Moses and Jesus received from the Almighty God qualified them to serve in that capacity that's why God told the Israelites:

I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Why did God compare Moses to Jesus in this verse?
Well it's because both of them will serve as God during their lifetime but none of them claimed to be God.
During the time of Moses Egyptians have many Gods and these Gods are real to them because they support them with spiritism but when Moses stepped his foot in Egypt after being trained and certified to serve as God all the Gods of Egypt became ordinary statues with no power to save the Egyptians from being wiped out with the signs and wonders performed by Moses.
So just as a medical doctor is trained and certified to serve Moses and Jesus were both trained and certified by the Almighty to serve as Gods during their lifetime and just as a medical doctor will present his credentials to prove he has been trained Moses and Jesus presented their credentials before their audience that the Almighty God is their TEACHER who taught them whatever they are doing.

What about FALSE Gods?
Just as a fake doctor can't present any credentials nor perform excellently in that field no other Gods from any source can prove to be powerful than Moses and Jesus both trained and certified by the Almighty God Himself.

So when some people now feel that Jesus and his father are of the same grade it's really funny because both Moses and Jesus always tell their audience that they are nothing beside the one who sent them!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 9:30am On Oct 28, 2024

Janosky:
No Sir.

The expression "First born of creation" is not a figure of speech.

The word first born is a common expression in the old and new testaments.
From Genesis to Revelation, every first born is a creature,no exceptions.
"The first born of God" at Hebrew 1:6a is not a figure of speech.

God his Father is also the Father of all.

We can't say the first born of every child is not a child.
Therefore, Jesus the first born of every creature is himself a creature. Micah 5:2 Hebrew text.

No one disputes that God his father is the Father of all.

But you do not understand the term "creation" - it explains the process of how something came into existence mind you could you tell me how preexisting Jesus came into existence!

When the very world was not made and when creation has not began!

But if you say from the Father's perspective that he is a creature that seems fair "but even the Father doesn't use that term" but instead used "begotten" to hint perhaps at the process of his inception.

How then can we comprehend the inception of "our inception"?

Anything that predates time and creation should be the same today, yesterday and forever.

Which means technically the Son hath "no beginning"

But the son doesn't speak so of himself but instead we see the phrase being assigned to the Father.

From the Father's perspective The son is his seed a substance of him, a part of him and for sure hath been and dwelt in him also.

Let me lend the analogy of we paying tithe through Abraham.
From the above we see two options either the son existed in the Father without sentience or he existed with the Father in the beginning of beginnings with sentience.

Hence irrespective of this - we can be sure that the "Word" even though articulated by the Father will forever and has always been a part of the Father!

Hence only from the Father's perspective can we say that the "metaphor" - "first of born of creation" is suitable.

Proper understanding of the verse is key!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 9:50am On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Which means technically the Son hath "no beginning"

Even the word "SON" alone has proved that he has a beginning because he was BORN! cheesy

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 10:09am On Oct 28, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
Even the word "SON" alone has proved that he has a beginning because he was BORN!

Not disputing that!
You could as well take it from the physical perspective.
It doesn't diminish the fact that he is timeless hence it was his wish that he should be born in flesh which the bible corroborates!

Jesus is God that existed as a physical being!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 10:15am On Oct 28, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
Even the word "SON" alone has proved that he has a beginning because he was BORN!

Yes, the first born of God was born in the spiritual realm as the mountains were born in the physical realm. Psalms 90:2.

Whenever you see "technically" in any speech or comment, just know say the person shift goal post.

Since the days of technically defeated.

grin

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 10:25am On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Not disputing that!
You could as well take it from the physical perspective.
It doesn't diminish the fact that he is timeless hence it was his wish that he should be born in flesh which the bible corroborates!

Jesus is God that existed as a physical being!

"His origin (start) is from of old,in the days of yore.
Hebrew language rendition of Micah 5:2.

"When God brings His first born (in the spiritual realm) into the world (physical realm)," according to your own Bible.

Jesus Christ is not timeless, the God his Father is Timeless, without beginning, Psalms 93:1-2.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 10:48am On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
No one disputes that God his father is the Father of all.

But you do not understand the term "creation" - it explains the process of how something came into existence mind you could you tell me how preexisting Jesus came into existence!

When the very world was not made and when creation has not began!

But if you say from the Father's perspective that he is a creature that seems fair "but even the Father doesn't use that term" but instead used "begotten" to hint perhaps at the process of his inception.

How then can we comprehend the inception of "our inception"?

Anything that predates time and creation should be the same today, yesterday and forever.

Which means technically the Son hath "no beginning"

But the son doesn't speak so of himself but instead we see the phrase being assigned to the Father.

From the Father's perspective The son is his seed a substance of him, a part of him and for sure hath been and dwelt in him also.

Let me lend the analogy of we paying tithe through Abraham.
From the above we see two options either the son existed in the Father without sentience or he existed with the Father in the beginning of beginnings with sentience.

Hence irrespective of this - we can be sure that the "Word" even though articulated by the Father will forever and has always been a part of the Father!

Hence only from the Father's perspective can we say that the "metaphor" - "first of born of creation" is suitable.

Proper understanding of the verse is key!

Abraham had many offsprings in the physical realm he dwells.
But,only Isaac was begotten.

God has many sons in the spiritual realm HE dwells.
But only one son, Jesus is begotten in the spiritual realm.

Was the word "begotten" ever applied to God our heavenly Father at any time?

Definitely not!

Every begotten son had a beginning, revelation 3:14 &
1 Corinthians 11:11-12 .

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Janosky: 10:52am On Oct 28, 2024

Emusan:
Stop injecting your own delusion into Bible.

Bible never said Moses WAS GOD!

"Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharʹaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet." Exo 7:1 - NWT

This scripture is very self explanatory!

Lastly, later you will be arguing that JESUS IS NOT GOD!
BUT HERE YOU ARE CLAIMING THAT the Bible actually called Jesus GOD!

If Bible actually called Jesus God, does that not mean Jesus is GOD?

The screenshot evidences are self explanatory.
"Like" is not in the Hebrew text but added by English Bible translators.

God said to Moses:
" I have made you God to Pharaoh."
Exodus 7:1.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 12:34pm On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Not disputing that!
You could as well take it from the physical perspective.
It doesn't diminish the fact that he is timeless hence it was his wish that he should be born in flesh which the bible corroborates!
Jesus is God that existed as a physical being!

How can Jesus be BORN (FIRST) but many were born before him in the flesh?

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 1:13pm On Oct 28, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
How can Jesus be BORN (FIRST) but many were born before him in the flesh?

You act as
If Jesus didn't say "before Abraham was, I am" 🤨.

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 1:27pm On Oct 28, 2024

Janosky:
Abraham had many offsprings in the physical realm he dwells.
But,only Isaac was begotten.

God has many sons in the spiritual realm HE dwells.
But only one son, Jesus is begotten in the spiritual realm.

Was the word "begotten" ever applied to God our heavenly Father at any time?

Definitely not!

Every begotten son had a beginning, revelation 3:14 &
1 Corinthians 11:11-12 .

Analogy is quite not right.
Almost there.

Not necessarily!
The logic was applied when we(he that reads this should understand) paid tithes in Abraham.

I could as well argue that I paid tithe to melchisedek because I was within Abraham(please he that reads this should use common sense).

Hence your logic/argument of beginning now falls on the sentient matter because technically I could also argue that a baby girl is born with ovaries right from inception but each one of these ovaries is not sentient! At least at the moment.

Which now means two things either the son was present in the Father since the very beginning(God's beginning 🤨 that's really a hard one cause he has no beginning) and gained sentience later on or he was both sentient and present at the same time!

So technically I could argue I have been in my mother's womb since the day she was born!(Read and understand with sense).

But I was "born" or to use the term "begotten"
When my Father fired outside shot! And I gained sentience🥳

I could even go further and say I have gotten sentient since the beginning of the world cause in Job the bible talks about the treasures of God (hails etc).

I wonder where those humans yet to be born are kept?

But that now leads us to another rabbit hole.
What type of sentience?

Which could leads us to another argument that all that we know is nothing but the work of the spirit of God giving us sentience.

Well it's exhausting that's the paradox of life.
Eternal cycles reflected back to you.

It's really fascinating!🙂

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 1:56pm On Oct 28, 2024

Janosky:

"His origin (start) is from of old,in the days of yore.
Hebrew language rendition of Micah 5:2.

"When God brings His first born (in the spiritual realm) into the world (physical realm)," according to your own Bible.

Jesus Christ is not timeless, the God his Father is Timeless, without beginning, Psalms 93:1-2.

Well John17:5 begs to differ.
He predates the world!
These are the options left for you
1) argue perhaps the earth is roughly 4.6billion years old probably Jesus was created before then which implies that probably he is not older than the universe which now leaves you in a conundrum with the verse- John1:1

2) argue that he was before the beginning! (Which means he existed before time) but God created(oversimplification) him in the timeless.

That now creates another problem for you!
Anything in the timeless should remain timeless and as such is timeless.

That's why Jesus didn't find it hard to use "I am"

Or don't you understand what it means to be timeless?

Finally my reply to you.
From biblical days the reference Lord was a generic term for God.

Even from Jesus' discourse in Matthew11:27 it is evident that either the personality referred to as Lord in the old testament for most part
of it was the Son.

Even from Genesis we see "the voice of the Lord walking in the cool of the day"

Who happens to bear that name?

Even the psalmist in his revelations said "the Lord said unto my Lord"

So I could as well argue that the verse refers to the Son!

Which now leaves you with your third defense
3) bring up the Hebrew and Greek words and debate their original intended meanings. 🙂🙂

Any you decide to take including dazzling me by bringing a different logical proposition am open to it!

Surprise me!

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 2:41pm On Oct 28, 2024*

Gabrielshow24:
You act as
If Jesus didn't say "before Abraham was, I am" 🤨.

How is he before Abraham, in the SPIRIT or in the FLESH?
Nobody knew anyone bearing Jesus before his birth in the first century so how possible could he be before Abraham if he's not talking about his prehuman existence?
So whatever makes Jesus the firstborn it means he was the first creature from the God and Father of all creations! John 20:17

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by freshboi88: 2:44pm On Oct 28, 2024

Janosky:
The disciples, imperfect men said "Jesus knows all things".

Two times Jesus Christ the perfect man their Master disagrees, @Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:8.

Your WAILING upandan doesn't change anything @ @Matthew 24:36 & Acts 1:8.

Freshboi please ,use 1 Corinthians 11:3 to caution yourself and shun your IBERIBEISM

Please show me where Jesus corrected them ?

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by Gabrielshow24: 3:01pm On Oct 28, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
How is he before Abraham, in the SPIRIT or in the FLESH?
Nobody knew anyone bearing Jesus before his birth in the first century so how possible could he before Abraham if he's not talking about his prehuman existence?
So whatever makes Jesus the firstborn it means he was the first creature from the God and Father of all creations! John 20:17

Now you are coming to terms with the word of God.
Your initial statement suggested otherwise!
That's why I gave you that verse to prep you up!

"Creature" - wrong choice of word!

1 Like

Re: If Jesus Is Not God, He Cannot Do This. by MaxInDHouse(m): 3:32pm On Oct 28, 2024

Gabrielshow24:
Now you are coming to terms with the word of God. Your initial statement suggested otherwise! That's why I gave you that verse to prep you up!
"Creature" - wrong choice of word!

FIRST BORN of CREATION is a CREATURE!

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