The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! - Christianity Etc

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The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 11:55am On Nov 06, 2024*

Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

But later Jesus died on the cross!
So the father must have died before him!

Then Jesus rose from the dead!
That means the father did rise before him!

This is the implication of excessive exaggeration!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by TheFreshVanilla: 2:04pm On Nov 06, 2024

See foolish talk. Your mates are exploring Ai adding value to life, you dey Nairaland dey argue Bible.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 3:07pm On Nov 06, 2024

TheFreshVanilla:
See foolish talk. Your mates are exploring Ai adding value to life, you dey Nairaland dey argue Bible.

In your world you can only do one thing at a time, right?

Ezi sad

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by SIRTee15: 3:58pm On Nov 06, 2024

AntiChristian:
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

So from the above IT IS CLEAR JESUS CAN DO NOTHING BY HIMSELF. Jesus ONLY does whatever he sees the father doing!

When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

But later Jesus died on the cross!
So the father must have died before him!

Then Jesus rose from the dead!
That means the father did rise before him!

This is the implication of excessive exaggeration!

Guy rest.
Jesus is the logos in flesh- Son of God.
The bible never said Father became flesh or had human nature.

Your comparison makes no sense.

And FYI JUST LIKE THE SON CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE FATHER
THE FATHER ALSO CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE SON.
because THE SON IS THE WORD OF THE FATHER.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without the word nothing was made that has been made.

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Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 5:20pm On Nov 06, 2024

SIRTee15:
Guy rest.
Jesus is the logos in flesh- Son of God.
The bible never said Father became flesh or had human nature.

Your comparison makes no sense.

And FYI JUST LIKE THE SON CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE FATHER
THE FATHER ALSO CAN DO NOTHING WITHOUT THE SON.
because THE SON IS THE WORD OF THE FATHER.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without the word nothing was made that has been made.

So how is this statement true "For whatever the Father does, the Son also does" What does it mean as you never really answered it? GothamCities, mightysparrow

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by SIRTee15: 7:33pm On Nov 06, 2024

AntiChristian:
So how is this statement true "For whatever the Father does, the Son also does" What does it mean as you never really answered it? GothamCities, mightysparrow

The Son of God came to earth to fulfill the will of the Father. He will only do what he sees his Father do.
He came to fulfil only the will of the Father and not his own will.

But the Father also cannot the do or will anything without the expression of the WORD. Without the word proceeding from the Father, nothing can be done.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MightySparrow: 8:26pm On Nov 06, 2024

SIRTee15:
The Son of God came to earth to fulfill the will of the Father. He will only do what he sees his Father do.
He came to fulfil only the will of the Father and not his own will.

But the Father also cannot the do or will anything without the expression of the WORD. Without the word proceeding from the Father, nothing can be done.

Yes ooo

1 Like

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MightySparrow: 8:27pm On Nov 06, 2024

AntiChristian:
So how is this statement true "For whatever the Father does, the Son also does" What does it mean as you never really answered it? GothamCities, mightysparrow

To me it is true, what about you?

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by Samunique(m): 8:54pm On Nov 06, 2024

AntiChristian:
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

But later Jesus died on the cross!
So the father must have died before him!

Then Jesus rose from the dead!
That means the father did rise before him!

This is the implication of excessive exaggeration!

Wetin do your sense bro huh

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by TenQ: 8:00am On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

But later Jesus died on the cross!
So the father must have died before him!

Then Jesus rose from the dead!
That means the father did rise before him!

This is the implication of excessive exaggeration!

What the Father does, the Son also does is NOT the same as what the Son does, the Father also does!
All your rambles is about what the Son does. The Father never died for mankind, the Son did!

Tell me the truth,
Who can create life other than your Allah apart from this same Jesus?
Here is the challenge of Allah
Qur'an 22:73:
"O mankind! A similitude is presented, so listen to it: Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued."

And for this same Jesus you despise
Qur'an 3:49:
"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you from clay the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird by permission of Allah."

Jesus even by your Allah is the Creator.

Tell me what the exaggeration is here (as this is the challenge of Allah and not mundane things like eating and breathing) Mr Antichrist's Antichristian?

Of course we know that according to Allah, he is just ONE of the group of CREATORS

Qur'an 23:14:
"Then We made the sperm into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a lump (a chewed-like substance), then We made out of that lump bones, and We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We developed out of it another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators."

Antichristian
Stop the tantrums.
I have dealt a heavy blow on the foundation of Islam and it is in shambles.

Go home and think of why Allah is NOT Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent.

Think of why Allah existence is not different from the existence of Iblis.

Think of how Taoheed is UNIFICATION of Deitys.

Think of how Ahad is ONE OF many or ONE in a GROUP

Think of the BEST DECEIVER and ponder if you are not already Deceived.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 8:39am On Nov 07, 2024

MightySparrow:
Yes ooo

SIRTee15:
The Son of God came to earth to fulfill the will of the Father. He will only do what he sees his Father do.
He came to fulfil only the will of the Father and not his own will.

But the Father also cannot the do or will anything without the expression of the WORD. Without the word proceeding from the Father, nothing can be done.

MightySparrow:
To me it is true, what about you?

For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

1a.When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
1b.When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him! cool

2a.But later Jesus died on the cross!
2b.So the father must have died before him! cool

3a.Then Jesus rose from the dead!
3b.That means the father did rise before him! cool

Maybe you both should read well again!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 8:48am On Nov 07, 2024

TenQ:
What the Father does, the Son also does is NOT the same as what the Son does, the Father also does!
All your rambles is about what the Son does. The Father never died for mankind, the Son did!

Good! Seems you came a little close to the OP here. What you are insinuating is that:

"What the father does = what the son does" and this is not the same as "what the son does = the father also does".

This is not what i mean but what you thought i meant! I never said what Jesus did the father too will do it. What i said is that the father must have done it for the son to do it.

So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So the father must have done it for the son to do it!

For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

1a. When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
1b. When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

2a. But later Jesus died on the cross!
2b. So the father must have died before him!

3a. Then Jesus rose from the dead!
3b. That means the father did rise before him!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 8:53am On Nov 07, 2024

Samunique:
Wetin do your sense bro

Nothing!

Think about the OP below!

AntiChristian:
Because of this, the Jews tried all the harder to kill Him. Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

But later Jesus died on the cross!
So the father must have died before him!

Then Jesus rose from the dead!
That means the father did rise before him!

This is the implication of excessive exaggeration!

Not my sense!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by TenQ: 8:55am On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
Good! Seems you came a little close to the OP here. What you are insinuating is that:

"What the father does = what the son does" and this is not the same as "what the son does = the father also does".

This is not what i mean but what you thought i meant! I never said what Jesus did the father too will do it. What i said is that the father must have done it for the son to do it.

So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So the father must have done it for the son to do it!

English language is a problem to you simply because of Allah.

Does the Son CREATE Life?

Tell me the truth,
Who can create life other than your Allah apart from this same Jesus?
Here is the challenge of Allah
Qur'an 22:73:
"O mankind! A similitude is presented, so listen to it: Indeed, those you invoke besides Allah will never create [as much as] a fly, even if they gathered together for that purpose. And if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they could not recover it from him. Weak are the pursuer and pursued."

And for this same Jesus you despise
Qur'an 3:49:
"I have come to you with a sign from your Lord. I will create for you from clay the likeness of a bird; then I will breathe into it, and it will be a bird by permission of Allah."

Jesus even by your Allah is the Creator.

Tell me what the exaggeration is here (as this is the challenge of Allah and not mundane things like eating and breathing) Mr Antichrist's Antichristian?

Of course we know that according to Allah, he is just ONE of the group of CREATORS

Qur'an 23:14:
"Then We made the sperm into a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood), then We made the clot into a lump (a chewed-like substance), then We made out of that lump bones, and We clothed the bones with flesh, and then We developed out of it another creation. So blessed is Allah, the best of creators."

Antichristian
Stop the tantrums.
I have dealt a heavy blow on the foundation of Islam and it is in shambles.

Go home and think of why Allah is NOT Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent.

Think of why Allah existence is not different from the existence of Iblis.

Think of how Taoheed is UNIFICATION of Deitys.

Think of how Ahad is ONE OF many or ONE in a GROUP

Think of the BEST DECEIVER and ponder if you are not already Deceived.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 9:09am On Nov 07, 2024

TenQ:
Does the Son CREATE Life?

The son has no power of himself! John 5:30 - I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

And that's not the question! The English is clear!

So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING (no single thing) by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

"NOTHING" above means "no single thing".
"WHATEVER" above is used to emphasize a lack of restriction in referring to any thing or amount, no matter what.

So the question is not about the son creating life or your other diversions!

The simple question is does the father eat, wept, sleep, die, rise from the dead, etc. before Jesus did those?

AntiChristian:
For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

1a.When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
1b.When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

2a.But later Jesus died on the cross!
2b.So the father must have died before him!

3a.Then Jesus rose from the dead!
3b.That means the father did rise before him!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by TenQ: 9:29am On Nov 07, 2024

Let me help you with the remaining verses you refused to quote as Jesus gave EXAMPLES of what He meant!

John 5:20-23:
"For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises up the dead, and vivifies them; even so the Son vivifies whom he will. For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son: That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him."

AntiChristian:
The son has no power of himself! John 5:30 - I can do nothing by Myself; I judge only as I hear. And My judgment is just, because I do not seek My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.

And that's not the question! The English is clear!

So Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING (no single thing) by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

"NOTHING" above means "no single thing".
"WHATEVER" above is used to emphasize a lack of restriction in referring to any thing or amount, no matter what.

So the question is not about the son creating life or your other diversions!

The simple question is does the father eat, wept, sleep, die, rise from the dead, etc. before Jesus did those?

Still, your obstinate self chose not to comprehend simple English as there is difference between
What the Father does, the Son also does
AND it's NOT the same as
what the Son does, the Father also does!
Because, if one to one match is what a Donkey spirit possessed person is saying, the Father is on His throne in Heaven while the Son was here on earth!

Donkey brained individuals will insist that what Jesus meant was
Whatever the Son does is what the Father does!

I asked you a simple question:
1. According to Allah, Does the Son CREATE Life?

It is a YES or NO question sir!

2. Is it true that Allah says that non can create a similitude of a fly even if they joined hands together?

3. If it is true, why was Jesus an exception?

4. Is it true that Allah is just one (the best) of the Creators of life in the universe?
Apart from Jesus, who are the other creators of life?

It seems you are afraid to ask questions so that you wouldn't leave the clutch of Allah the best Deceiver.

Antichristian
Stop the tantrums.
A. I have dealt a heavy blow on the foundation of Islam and it is in shambles.

B. Go home and think of why Allah is NOT Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent.

C. Think of why Allah existence is not different from the existence of Iblis.

D. Think of how Taoheed is UNIFICATION of Deitys.

E. Think of how Ahad is ONE OF many or ONE in a GROUP

F. Think of the BEST DECEIVER and ponder if you are not already Deceived.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MaxInDHouse(m): 11:43am On Nov 07, 2024

The Jews are angry that Jesus healed a paralyzed man on a Sabbath and according to the law no work must be done on the Sabbath {Exodus 20:10} so they were accusing him that he broke God's law yet claiming he's God's son which means he can do anything without putting the laws first {John 5:15-16} that's why he told them that he is doing whatever his father also does {John 5:19} because the Sun, Moon, Air, Rain and other necessary things we need to survive aren't barred by Sabbath so if God doesn't stop supplying all these things that means He is always working that's why Jesus also can't stop working at what is good be it Sabbath or not! John 5:17

You should have taken into consideration the context not just taking Jesus' statement out of context! 2Corinthians 3:6 undecided

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by SIRTee15: 2:16pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

1a.When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
1b.When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

2a.But later Jesus died on the cross!
2b.So the father must have died before him!

3a.Then Jesus rose from the dead!
3b.That means the father did rise before him!

Maybe you both should read well again!

That's why I asked U does the Father have flesh?

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 3:06pm On Nov 07, 2024

SIRTee15:
That's why I asked U does the Father have flesh?

The father doesn't have flesh. The father also doesn't need flesh to do anything!

Spirits can die, eat, rise from the dead, weep, etc. just as human!

No be the son need flesh to become human and die?

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 3:16pm On Nov 07, 2024

TenQ:
Let me help you with the remaining verses you refused to quote as Jesus gave EXAMPLES of what He meant!

John 5:20-23:
"For the Father loves the Son, and shows him all things that himself does: and he will show him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father raises up the dead, and vivifies them; even so the Son vivifies whom he will. For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son: That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honors not the Son honors not the Father which has sent him."

Still, your obstinate self chose not to comprehend simple English as there is difference between
What the Father does, the Son also does
AND it's NOT the same as
what the Son does, the Father also does!
Because, if one to one match is what a Donkey spirit possessed person is saying, the Father is on His throne in Heaven while the Son was here on earth!

Donkey brained individuals will insist that what Jesus meant was
Whatever the Son does is what the Father does!

Once again i will reiterate my stance! The father is the originator of the action not the son! Whatever the father does the son does!

Your verses above buttresses it such that:
1. When the father died in heaven, he then shows Jesus He has died. Then the son died on the cross too to copy the father! (probably that's why Jesus said the father forsook him)
2. When the father ate food in heaven, he then shows the son so that he can copy him and eat too!
3. When the father rose from the dead, he then shows Jesus he has rose for him to rise too!
4. When the father wept, he showed Jesus and he wept too! (John 11:35 - Jesus wept)

Jesus and his father are one! And as you said, the father shows the son what he does for him to copy!

For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 3:24pm On Nov 07, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
The Jews are angry that Jesus healed a paralyzed man on a Sabbath and according to the law no work must be done on the Sabbath {Exodus 20:10} so they were accusing him that he broke God's law yet claiming he's God's son which means he can do anything without putting the laws first {John 5:15-16} that's why he told them that he is doing whatever his father also does {John 5:19} because the Sun, Moon, Air, Rain and other necessary things we need to survive aren't barred by Sabbath so if God doesn't stop supplying all these things that means He is always working that's why Jesus also can't stop working at what is good be it Sabbath or not! John 5:17

You should have taken into consideration the context not just taking Jesus' statement out of context! 2Corinthians 3:6

The context is well understood sir!

But the words "NOTHING" and "WHATEVER" is causing a lot of problems here! And you don't need to hide under "the letter kills but the spirit gives life" proposed by Paul! Paul wasn't in the equation when Jesus made that statement in John 5:19.

Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING (no single thing) by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For WHATEVER the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by SIRTee15: 4:02pm On Nov 07, 2024*

AntiChristian:
The father doesn't have flesh. The father also doesn't need flesh to do anything!

Spirits can die, eat, rise from the dead, weep, etc. just as human!

No be the son need flesh to become human and die?

The highlighted is just plain ignorance. No wonder most Christians ignore U here.
Imagine saying a spirit follows the law of MR NIGER D.
OLODO RABATA.

Spirits are immaterial beings. They are not subject to the law of physical nature. Spirits can't die, it's impossible for a spirit to die.

I don't really blame U, the fault lies with Quran that failed to differentiate between soul and spirit. So how would U not say spirits can die.

Besides let me ask your fellow Muslims...
Qasim and honesttalk do U agree with him
Do U agree that spirit can die.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by TenQ: 4:46pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
Once again i will reiterate my stance! The father is the originator of the action not the son! Whatever the father does the son does!

Your verses above buttresses it such that:
1. When the father died in heaven, he then shows Jesus He has died. Then the son died on the cross too to copy the father! (probably that's why Jesus said the father forsook him)
2. When the father ate food in heaven, he then shows the son so that he can copy him and eat too!
3. When the father rose from the dead, he then shows Jesus he has rose for him to rise too!
4. When the father wept, he showed Jesus and he wept too! (John 11:35 - Jesus wept)

Jesus and his father are one! And as you said, the father shows the son what he does for him to copy!

For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

Being obstinate and obnoxious is your trademark and what can one do with a mad man's opinion? Nothing!

Hence, since your obstinate self chose not to comprehend simple English as there is difference between
What the Father does, the Son also does
AND it's NOT the same as
what the Son does, the Father also does!
Because, if one to one match is what a Donkey spirit possessed person is saying, the Father is on His throne in Heaven while the Son was here on earth!

Donkey brained individuals will insist that what Jesus meant was
Whatever the Son does is what the Father does!

I asked you a simple question:
1. According to Allah, Does the Son CREATE Life?

It is a YES or NO question sir!

2. Is it true that Allah says that non can create a similitude of a fly even if they joined hands together?

3. If it is true, why was Jesus an exception?

4. Is it true that Allah is just one (the best) of the Creators of life in the universe?
Apart from Jesus, who are the other creators of life?

It seems you are afraid to ask questions so that you wouldn't leave the clutch of Allah the best Deceiver.

Antichristian
Stop the tantrums.
A. I have dealt a heavy blow on the foundation of Islam and it is in shambles.

B. Go home and think of why Allah is NOT Omnipotent nor Omniscient nor Omnipresent.

C. Think of why Allah existence is not different from the existence of Iblis.

D. Think of how Taoheed is UNIFICATION of Deitys.

E. Think of how Ahad is ONE OF many or ONE in a GROUP

F. Think of the BEST DECEIVER and ponder if you are not already Deceived.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MightySparrow: 4:47pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
For whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19!

So from the above It is clear Jesus can't so anything by himself. JESUS ONLY DOES WHATEVER HE SEES HIS FATHER DOING!!!

1a.When Jesus ate, the father must have eaten before him!
1b.When Jesus wept the father must have wept before him!

2a.But later Jesus died on the cross!
2b.So the father must have died before him!

3a.Then Jesus rose from the dead!
3b.That means the father did rise before him!

Maybe you both should read well again!

Jesus said He had a Father; Father said, He had a Son.

What do you say?

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MaxInDHouse(m): 4:49pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
The context is well understood sir!
But the words "NOTHING" and "WHATEVER" is causing a lot of problems here! And you don't need to hide under "the letter kills but the spirit gives life" proposed by Paul! Paul wasn't in the equation when Jesus made that statement in John 5:19.
Truly, truly, I tell you, the Son can do NOTHING (no single thing) by Himself, unless He sees the Father doing it. For WHATEVER the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:18-19!

The context here is not about everything the father does because there are many things God instructed Jesus to do that he Himself God doesn't do.
For instance:
Jesus worships his God please who does God Himself worship?
Jesus ran away when the Jews wanted to kill him. Has God ever ran away from anyone?

So the context is about works that has been commissioned from the beginning which God never stopped such good works is what Jesus is talking about!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 5:59pm On Nov 07, 2024

SIRTee15:
The highlighted is just plain ignorance. No wonder most Christians ignore U here.
Imagine saying a spirit follows the law of MR NIGER D.
OLODO RABATA.

Spirits are immaterial beings. They are not subject to the law of physical nature. Spirits can't die, it's impossible for a spirit to die.

I don't really blame U, the fault lies with Quran that failed to differentiate between soul and spirit. So how would U not say spirits can die.

Besides let me ask your fellow Muslims...
Qasim and honesttalk do U agree with him
Do U agree that spirit can die.

It's inappropriate for you a Christian to be abusive like this. Angels are spiritual beings and according to the Bible can eat when disguised as a human!

Secondly, God was a spiritual being when He drank Pastor Adeboye's tea. He didn't disguise as a man just to drink tea!

Thirdly, the Christian God can do anything even debasing actions like turning to man, staying in the womb, passing through the birth canal, mixing with his creations, eating food, being protected by his creations, dying amongst others!

Lastly, As a Muslim, Allah is above all these human attributes! Allah created spirits but never called Himself a spirit! Allah doesn't eat nor drink tea! Angels do not die! But Jinns who are also spiritual beings die!
Enough of this diversions can you now answer the OP!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 6:05pm On Nov 07, 2024

MaxInDHouse:
The context here is not about everything the father does because there are many things God instructed Jesus to do that he Himself God doesn't do.
For instance:
Jesus worships his God please who does God Himself worship?
Jesus ran away when the Jews wanted to kill him. Has God ever ran away from anyone?

So the context is about works that has been commissioned from the beginning which God never stopped such good works is what Jesus is talking about!

I totally agree with you which proves the topic that John did exaggerate on what Jesus said to mean more that it ought to mean!

The verses in question has no restrictions whatsoever so it remains an incorrect exaggeration. So as you said the "Nothing" and "Whatever" used in those verses are dubious!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 6:11pm On Nov 07, 2024

MightySparrow:
Jesus said He had a Father; Father said, He had a Son.

What do you say?

I say if Jesus said he had a father and his father said he had a son, then Mary also gave birth to Jesus.

So Jesus had a mother too!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MaxInDHouse(m): 6:12pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
I totally agree with you which proves the topic that John did exaggerate on what Jesus said to mean more that it ought to mean!
The verses in question has no restrictions whatsoever so it remains an incorrect exaggeration. So as you said the "Nothing" and "Whatever" used in those verses are dubious!

That's language barrier for you because in your own language what John meant may totally differ from it's direct translation in your own language that's why context matters when reading the Bible.
John didn't exaggerate it was exactly what Jesus said in their own language that he wrote so if not explained you will misconstrue the whole thing just as you did!

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by SIRTee15: 6:13pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
It's inappropriate for you a Christian to be abusive like this. Angels are spiritual beings and according to the Bible can eat when disguised as a human!

Secondly, God was a spiritual being when He drank Pastor Adeboye's tea. He didn't disguise as a man just to drink tea!

Thirdly, the Christian God can do anything even debasing actions like turning to man, staying in the womb, passing through the birth canal, mixing with his creations, eating food, being protected by his creations, dying amongst others!

Lastly, As a Muslim, Allah is above all these human attributes! Allah created spirits but never called Himself a spirit! Allah doesn't eat nor drink tea! Angels do not die! But Jinns who are also spiritual beings die!
Enough of this diversions can you now answer the OP!

Then go and argue with a fellow Muslim who believes the highlighted.
Don't project Quranic ignorance of metaphysics on me. I never told U I believe the Quran is true.

When U come to debate Christians, learn the bible theology first b4 making up argument that makes no sense.

In metaphysics, spirits can't die. U need a physical body to experience death.

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by MightySparrow: 6:56pm On Nov 07, 2024

AntiChristian:
I say if Jesus said he had a father and his father said he had a son, then Mary also gave birth to Jesus.

So Jesus had a mother too!

So you don't believe the reference you qouted?

Re: The Implication Of Extreme Exaggeration in the Book of John! by AntiChristian(op): 7:27pm On Nov 07, 2024

TenQ:
Being obstinate and obnoxious is your trademark and what can one do with a mad man's opinion? Nothing!

I don't know why Christians are so abusive like this. And you'll claim you have Holy spirit in you right?

Hence, since your obstinate self chose not to comprehend simple English as there is difference between
What the Father does, the Son also does
AND it's NOT the same as
what the Son does, the Father also does!
Because, if one to one match is what a Donkey spirit possessed person is saying, the Father is on His throne in Heaven while the Son was here on earth!

Donkey brained individuals will insist that what Jesus meant was Whatever the Son does is what the Father does!

Stop wasting your time asking me islamic questions on my thread about your Bible statements. If you can't answer the question do keep mute and stop forming Voltron!

Only Max was civil enough to attempt the question but you're the only one turning the question upside down!

Here are the premises:
1. Jesus does only what he sees his father doing!
2. Jesus can of himself do nothing!

Conclusions:
Anything Jesus does must have been done previously by the father!

Jesus ate when he saw the father ate!
Jesus wept when he saw the father weep!
Jesus died when he saw the father die!
Jesus rose when he saw the father risen!

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