₦airaland Forum

TheBillyonaire:
Traditions become Cultures.

Cultures become Beliefs.

Beliefs become Religions.

Religions are replaced by Quantum Sciences.

When you master Quantum Sciences, then you become Awaken to the facts that Traditions, Cultures, Beliefs and Religions are all bullshit mind control and should be discarded to the refuse bin of history.

do you believe in Christ

DeepSight:
What is wrong with that practice.
Do you know the process of mummification for example involves the removal of organs.

What about people who sign off their organs for medical research or donation upon their death?

Well..I have no business on how organs or any of the subject matters provided as granting the deceased their dying wish.
But making it a must customary is what we are against

Kukutente23:
It actually did. Go and read about Yunfa in Kano. That's why it was a jihad
You have changed mouth now. I asked you for specific aspects of Christianity that you claimed were influenced by paganism and now you bring another claim that Protestants regard Catholics as pagan in colouration. If I ask you for evidence of such, I'm sure you'll fly off on another tangent. Did the Pope requested to be buried in rites that are alien to Catholic methods before he died? You are simply confusing yourself

I made an example of the Pope. But you still had to ask me again lol. That's an example that is public knowledge.

Softmirror:
Someone was beaten to death a few weeks ago, another just three days ago by Masquerade. That is why our culture and tradition must be respected for it's uniqueness.

... and the killing of Deborah et all was due to what?

Omonigeriarere:
... and the killing of Deborah et all was due to what?

The killing of Deborah is not even in the same context with what we are talking about. But then, let me use your logic to make an explanation. Do you support Boko Haram based on the fact that it was a Peaceful movement on the on set which denounced western education based on Yusuf Muhammad teachings until the man was killed without trial while in custody?

Or the killing of his followers because they were not putting on helmet?

illicit:
Arabic burial rite is foreign....


Two nations colonized Nigeria

I think the kingmakers made a mistake selecting the Awujale in the first place

His major qualification was being young and educated abroad

He bastardized their culture

The same king who refused to wear the ancestral crown

Arab culture is not good for us but ogboni members eating the hearts of every Yoruba oba that died is evil also

BlackViper:
https://punchng.com/awujales-burial-frees-yoruba-kings-from-ritual-slavery-oluwo/

Una problems for persons decision on how he wants to be buried is tiresome...

Yoruba way, yoruba way...

Write it down make dem give you yoruba rites if Una die na despite you being a Muslim or Christian...may we not waste our living. Ameen

Softmirror:
I made an example of the Pope. But you still had to ask me again lol. That's an example that is public knowledge.

Can you point out specific aspects of the Pope's buria that have pagan background?
Like I said, you are just jumping around. Catholicism adopted certain practices that are not in line with mainstream Christianity, one of which is the veneration and worship of Mary mother of Jesus. That does not have any pagan origin. Mary was not pagan neither were any pagan group worshipping Mary before Catholics.
In the instance we are talking about, the Kingship in Yorubaland is a traditional stool. In fact, the first King in Yoruabaland which is the Ooni was initially an Ifa priest. The first crowned King which is the Alaafin is the direct descendant of that same Ifa lineage. So it is practically incorrect to attempt to cast the Kingship stool in Yorubaland as secular. The Kings are known as small gods or deputy to the gods. Some others see them as the link between the ancestors and them while others see them as custodians of the ancient customs and tradition. None of the above connote secularity.
While I believe there's nothing wrong in a King who is not a traditionalist to take the throne, I believe it is wrong to take the throne while accepting the traditionalist aspects only to repudiate them after you take the throne. That's my stand

You need to know the impact of the late King in his land

illicit:
Arabic burial rite is foreign....


Two nations colonized Nigeria

I think the kingmakers made a mistake selecting the Awujale in the first place

His major qualification was being young and educated abroad

He bastardized their culture

The same king who refused to wear the ancestral crown

Softmirror:
The killing of Deborah is not even in the same context with what we are talking about. But then, let me use your logic to make an explanation. Do you support Boko Haram based on the fact that it was a Peaceful movement on the on set which denounced western education based on Yusuf Muhammad teachings until the man was killed without trial while in custody?

Or the killing of his followers because they were not putting on helmet?

You did not use any logic. My point is that every religions have impacted the society negatively in one way or the other. So, demonizing the traditional religion just because of a singular act is uncalled for when the atrocities committed by other religions are very clear for all to see.

pastie:
Well..I have no business on how organs or any of the subject matters provided as granting the deceased their dying wish.
But making it a must customary is what we are against

Customs evolve. I doubt in 2025 they will go and murder anyone to fulfill the rites.

Omonigeriarere:
You did not use any logic. My point is that every religions have impacted the society negatively in one way or the other. So, demonizing the traditional religion just because of a singular act is uncalled for when the atrocities committed by other religions are very clear for all to see.

Of course based of their burial rites. My mentioning of masquerade is just an aspect to it. Go back and read the burial rites because that's the whole essence.

DeepSight:
Customs evolve. I doubt in 2025 they will go and murder anyone to fulfill the rites.

It a secret cult.

Omonigeriarere:
You did not use any logic. My point is that every religions have impacted the society negatively in one way or the other. So, demonizing the traditional religion just because of a singular act is uncalled for when the atrocities committed by other religions are very clear for all to see.

Gbam!

Very clear to see, and FAR FAR MORE!

Softmirror:
It a secret cult.

What s wrong with a secret cult?

DeepSight:
What s wrong with a secret cult?

It means such rites of killing can still be achieved secretly.

Honestly some tradition needs to abolish, kudos to late Awujale for this. that means some of this scared tradition self re just sakamaje.

Softmirror:
It means such rites of killing can still be achieved secretly.

Fair point. But we cant assume.

Allah bless the King and uplifting him more than this also forgive and accept his returns in Al-Janah Firdawous.

Aamin ♥️

Any tradition that don't depict morality should be discarded. Why should heads of the living be use to bury a king? Sometimes, it's even heads of travellers and strangers. Ev!l in the name of culture?

While I celebrate our cultural heritages across states and regions, any culture against morality and humanity should be revised and as a matter of fact, changed. That is how proper culture should be, our culture should frown against ev!l and not upholding it

Softmirror:
Of course based of their burial rites. My mentioning of masquerade is just an aspect to it. Go back and read the burial rites because that's the whole essence.

Their burial rite is a tradition which should not be demonized too. I have witnessed the burial of a king whose parts of the body was not dismembered, and buried by the so called 'traditionalists'. Upon careful investigation, I found out that the dismembering part is only applicable to those kings who were members of the occultic groups while alive.

Remember, the same occultic group consists of traditionalist, muslims and christians.

Kukutente23:
Can you point out specific aspects of the Pope's buria that have pagan background?
Like I said, you are just jumping around. Catholicism adopted certain practices that are not in line with mainstream Christianity, one of which is the veneration and worship of Mary mother of Jesus. That does not have any pagan origin. Mary was not pagan neither were any pagan group worshipping Mary before Catholics.
In the instance we are talking about, the Kingship in Yorubaland is a traditional stool. In fact, the first King in Yoruabaland which is the Ooni was initially an Ifa priest. The first crowned King which is the Alaafin is the direct descendant of that same Ifa lineage. So it is practically incorrect to attempt to cast the Kingship stool in Yorubaland as secular. The Kings are known as small gods or deputy to the gods. Some others see them as the link between the ancestors and them while others see them as custodians of the ancient customs and tradition. None of the above connote secularity.
While I believe there's nothing wrong in a King who is not a traditionalist to take the throne, I believe it is wrong to take the throne while accepting the traditionalist aspects only to repudiate them after you take the throne. That's my stand

Your stand is very nuanced and principled and I respect it. Sometimes you can speak sense when you are not overwrought with your Christian fundamentalism or Trumpism.

However I must correct something. The worship of Mary does have deep Pagan origins and associations.

DeepSight:
Your stand is very nuanced and principled and I respect it. Sometimes you can speak sense when you are not overwrought with your Christian fundamentalism or Trumpism.

However I must correct something. The worship of Mary does have deep Pagan origins and associations.

What are the Pagan origins of the worship of Mary

Kukutente23:
What are the Pagan origins of the worship of Mary

Let me extract something from Google -

----------------

The veneration of the Virgin Mary in Catholicism is a complex topic with roots in both Christian theology and the broader cultural and religious environment of the ancient world. While Catholic teaching officially distinguishes between the worship of God (latria) and the veneration of Mary and the saints (hyperdulia), some scholars and critics point to significant parallels between the devotion to Mary and the pre-Christian worship of pagan goddesses. This perspective, often called syncretism, argues that the early Church assimilated existing pagan beliefs and practices into its own emerging traditions.

The Role of Syncretism and Ancient Goddesses
As Christianity spread, especially throughout the Roman Empire, it encountered a world deeply entrenched in the worship of female deities. These goddesses were often associated with powerful and relatable concepts, such as motherhood, fertility, protection, and wisdom. For a newly converted population, the figure of Mary may have provided a familiar and comforting female divine presence that could be easily integrated into their existing spiritual framework.

Scholars have drawn numerous parallels between the Virgin Mary and ancient goddesses, including:

Isis: The Egyptian goddess Isis was widely revered throughout the Roman Empire as a mother goddess and a compassionate savior. Depictions of Isis nursing her divine son, Horus, are strikingly similar to the Madonna and Child iconography that became central to Christian art.

Cybele: The Great Mother, or Magna Mater, Cybele was a powerful, chaste goddess whose worship included rituals of initiation and the veneration of a divine son. She was a prominent figure in Asia Minor, and her cult's themes of a chaste mother goddess and a focus on salvation may have influenced early Mariology.

Diana/Artemis: These goddesses of chastity, the moon, and childbirth were often referred to as "virgin." This term, in its pre-Christian context, did not necessarily mean sexual inexperience but rather a woman who was "one-in-herself" and not subject to a man. This concept of powerful, autonomous virginity resonates with the development of Mary's perpetual virginity in Catholic doctrine.

Athena: The Greek goddess Athena, known for her wisdom and for being a divine virgin, shares some surprising similarities with Mary. Both were associated with a kind of divine, non-sexual motherhood and were revered as protectors of cities.

Other Fertility Goddesses: Across various cultures, goddesses like the Aztec goddess Tonantzin (Our Sacred Mother) and the Andean goddess Pachamama (Mother Earth) were worshipped as figures of fertility and protection. When missionaries introduced the Virgin Mary to these regions, local traditions often merged with Marian devotion, leading to syncretic figures like the Virgin of Guadalupe.


The Theological Development of Marian Veneration
While the cultural context of syncretism is a key element, the veneration of Mary also has a clear theological history within the Church itself.

Early Christianity (1st-3rd centuries): The New Testament provides a foundation for Mary's special role, particularly in the Gospel of Luke, but there is little evidence of a widespread "cult" of Mary. Early Christian writers like Justin Martyr and Irenaeus saw Mary as the "New Eve," whose obedience reversed the disobedience of the first Eve.

The Council of Ephesus (431 CE): A major turning point came with the Council of Ephesus, which formally declared Mary as the Theotokos (Greek for "God-bearer" or "Mother of God" ). This title, which affirmed the full divinity of Jesus from the moment of his conception, was a crucial theological development. It elevated Mary's status and provided a strong impetus for her veneration, as she was now seen as the mother of God himself.

The Middle Ages: Marian devotion flourished in the Middle Ages. Hymns, prayers, and cathedrals dedicated to "Our Lady" became widespread. Theologians like Bernard of Clairvaux promoted her role as a compassionate intercessor and a mediatrix between humanity and God.

Modern Dogmas: Later centuries saw the formalization of doctrines that further elevated Mary, such as the Immaculate Conception (1854), which states that Mary was conceived without original sin, and the Assumption (1950), which holds that she was taken, body and soul, into heaven.

Conclusion
The question of the "pagan origins" of Marian veneration is not a simple one. The Catholic Church has always insisted that its veneration of Mary is rooted in biblical and theological teachings, distinguishing it from the worship of a deity. However, historical and anthropological evidence suggests that the growth of Marian devotion was significantly shaped by the religious landscape of the ancient world. The figure of Mary may have provided a crucial link for new converts, allowing them to transfer their deep-seated devotion to female divine figures to a person central to the Christian story, leading to a unique synthesis of Christian theology and pre-Christian cultural practices.

onuman:
Problem is that the SS and SE parts of Nigeria that don't attach importance to religious rituals are tied up with other ritualistic regions in the deep poo of one Nigeria.

^^^


What does the SS (or any other geopolitical zone in Nigeria for that matter) have to do with this issue?

So yorubas have this type of culture of mutilating their dead kings yet mock igbos of being primitive?

They said traditional thing had been done the previous night so what are people insinuating.

richiemcgold:
Last night I had a conversation with a prominent ijebu chief over this same matter. He was visibly annoyed and was calling the late monarch all sort of names.

This culture might be what's encouraging some people in yorubaland to be engaging in ritual killings.

Mrexcell:
This culture might be what's encouraging some people in yorubaland to be engaging in ritual killings.

Are there no ritual killings in other parts of the country? Are there no ritual killings among Igbos and other tribes? You are not making any sense pls.

No wonder.

The news reports a couple of days ago - about security being deployed - are now beginning to make sense.

Some people on this thread are not being honest with themselves. For a long, long time, there have been incredible rumours swirling about the burial rites of dead kings in the SW. Now, someone who should know has all but confirmed those rumours.

And...the reaction of some posters here is 'so what'?

Interesting.

Kukutente23:
Really?
Maybe you missed a bit of history classes
What was the Fulani wars about?

So it's no more Arabs, it's now Fulani?!