₦airaland Forum

You are one of those ones that doesn't know meaning of Allah. Which is a good pointer that you know nothing

Even AI and a simple Google search knows. It was a mistake to copy you.

Did the Prophet copy the Bible?

To say the Prophet copied is the laziest argument ever.

The Qur’an’s writing is VERY DIFFERENT FROM the Bible. Few people were even scholars in his time, yet the Qur’an contains things far beyond the scope of the Bible. Access to such knowledge would have placed the Prophet at the very top of the educated elite of the world and they were very few people in that sphere and if he had copied, people would have called him out during his life and after. Do you really think the past was like today, where information is at your fingertips? . For such beautiful scholarship as the Qur'an, there should have been other works before or during his supposed scholarship with the other educated men of his time in Rome, Syria? Where are they sir?

And let’s be clear: for a liar or copyist, even the stupidest one wouldn’t “confuse” Mary with Aaron as her literal brother. The Bible’s genealogy is obvious, which only proves one thing, it wasn’t a copy. Otherwise, it would be the dumbest copy in history.

The Prophet himself explained that people were often called by the names of prophets and righteous figures before them. So Mary being called “sister of Aaron” was a cultural expression, not a mistake. It was a way of linking her to noble ancestry just as Jesus was called son of David and God calls us children of Abraham.

Mary came from the priestly line of Aaron through the family of Imran. That’s why her people invoked Aaron’s name to remind her of the honour and responsibility tied to her lineage. And the Qur’an strongly suggests Mary grew up in the temple whose first Chief Priest was Aaron himself. The Prophet is right; you know nothing.


Haman in the Qur’an vs the Bible
You assume the Bible is historically accurate. That was your first mistake. This is the same Bible where God “regrets” twice and “rests” on the seventh day, and where Moses somehow writes about his own death in Deuteronomy.

Jews themselves don’t always claim the Bible’s books are historical. The Universal Jewish Encyclopaedia says about how the boo of Esther is nto historicaly accurate:

“The very tone of the book itself, its literary craftsmanship and the aptness of its situations, point rather to a romantic story than a historical chronicle.”

Some scholars even argue it’s a reworking of Babylonian myths of Marduk and Ishtar, not Jewish history at all.
Now compare that to the Qur’an: two ancient Egyptian inscriptions the Rosetta Stone and a Stela actually mention an overseer of stonemasons with the name he-man-ḥw, which matches what the Qur’an says about Haman/someone serving Pharaoh as . I care not for the academic side of it.

Pharaoh said: "O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace (Arabic: Sarhan, lofty tower or palace), that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" [Qur'an 28:38]

Pharaoh in the Qur’an vs the Bible
The Bible casually calls every ruler of Egypt “Pharaoh.”
The Qur’an, however, distinguishes: Joseph’s ruler is called king, not Pharaoh, while Moses’ adversary is called Pharaoh. Historically, Qur’an is correct NOT every ruler used to be called Pharaoh. The original meaning of “Pharaoh” was the royal palace or residence, and it only became a title for the king much later.

How exactly would Prophet Muhammad have known this if he was copying the Bible?[/i]

Samiri and the golden calf
In the Bible, Aaron, the very man God appointed as Moses’ prophet and the first High Priest is said to have built the golden calf. Think about it:, the same man chosen for honour supposedly commits the worst sin of leading Israel into idolatry? That doesn’t even make sense.

[i]The Qur’an fixes this. It names Samiri, not Aaron, as the one who made the calf. That preserves Aaron’s role as honoured prophet without attributing to him the most egregious act of betrayal against God.


I will stop here. These examples are enough. Anyone with sense can see the Qur’an didn’t copy, and if you’re serious, you can do the rest of the research yourself but wait it is the heart that is blind. Take care of yourself

Gabrielshow24:
That dude just copied tales left, right and center with reckless abandon.

His ’book’ has an high formulaic density to show it can't be the ’uncreated speech of Allah ’...Even his few appeals to history were awful: Confusing Saul with Gideon, Confusing Jacob for Moses(Moses meeting a man with two daughters), Placing Haman in Egypt, Samaritans in the time of Aaron 👀, Affirming Mary has Aaron's sister, Mistaking David for Solomon to say the least🤦🏾‍♂️.

Ohyoudidnt:
You keep saying this is all a fabrication, but your whole argument is built on an assumption that the Qur’an doesn’t actually make or does it?

e?

I might have to leave Nairaland for Seun and the Muslims as the truth cannot be spoken on Nairaland again

Sterope:
You are one of those ones that doesn't know meaning of Allah. Which is a good pointer that you know nothing

Even AI and a simple Google search knows. It was a mistake to copy you.

Al-LAH means Deity-LAH or God-LAH as the name of your God is LAH.


I guess I should remind you that in semitic languages like Arabic, Aramaic and Hebrew,
The words El- is used interchangeably with Al- depending on the dialect mean DEITY


Thus as Muslims, the real name of your Deity is LAH!

Al-Lah= God-Lah
Al-Lat= god-Lat
Al-Manat= god-Manat
Al-Uzza= god-Uzza
Al-Muharriq = god-Muharriq

Qur'an 1:1
In the name of LAH, the Most Compassionate, the Most Merciful


Sorry!
Otherwise, tell us the meaning of Allah?

Ohyoudidnt:
I see you rather focus on assigning the world's sins to Jesus so long they idolise and worship him. Please what's the most important thing to your faith?

Are all sins the same as idolatry?

Does the Qur'an tell you the sin of John the Baptist or he wasn't a prophet. Following your apologetic polemics I see.

So, why do your prophet kiss the Blackstone?
Why do you Muslims kiss the Blackstone?

Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Sterope:
Did the Prophet copy the Bible?

To say the Prophet copied is the laziest argument ever.

The Qur’an’s writing is VERY DIFFERENT FROM the Bible. Few people were even scholars in his time, yet the Qur’an contains things far beyond the scope of the Bible. Access to such knowledge would have placed the Prophet at the very top of the educated elite of the world and they were very few people in that sphere and if he had copied, people would have called him out during his life and after. Do you really think the past was like today, where information is at your fingertips? . For such beautiful scholarship as the Qur'an, there should have been other works before or during his supposed scholarship with the other educated men of his time in Rome, Syria? Where are they sir?

And let’s be clear: for a liar or copyist, even the stupidest one wouldn’t “confuse” Mary with Aaron as her literal brother. The Bible’s genealogy is obvious, which only proves one thing, it wasn’t a copy. Otherwise, it would be the dumbest copy in history.

The Prophet himself explained that people were often called by the names of prophets and righteous figures before them. So Mary being called “sister of Aaron” was a cultural expression, not a mistake. It was a way of linking her to noble ancestry just as Jesus was called son of David and God calls us children of Abraham.

Mary came from the priestly line of Aaron through the family of Imran. That’s why her people invoked Aaron’s name to remind her of the honour and responsibility tied to her lineage. And the Qur’an strongly suggests Mary grew up in the temple whose first Chief Priest was Aaron himself. The Prophet is right; you know nothing.


Haman in the Qur’an vs the Bible
You assume the Bible is historically accurate. That was your first mistake. This is the same Bible where God “regrets” twice and “rests” on the seventh day, and where Moses somehow writes about his own death in Deuteronomy.

Jews themselves don’t always claim the Bible’s books are historical. The Universal Jewish Encyclopaedia says about how the boo of Esther is nto historicaly accurate:

“The very tone of the book itself, its literary craftsmanship and the aptness of its situations, point rather to a romantic story than a historical chronicle.”

Some scholars even argue it’s a reworking of Babylonian myths of Marduk and Ishtar, not Jewish history at all.
Now compare that to the Qur’an: two ancient Egyptian inscriptions the Rosetta Stone and a Stela actually mention an overseer of stonemasons with the name he-man-ḥw, which matches what the Qur’an says about Haman/someone serving Pharaoh as . I care not for the academic side of it.




Pharaoh in the Qur’an vs the Bible
The Bible casually calls every ruler of Egypt “Pharaoh.”
The Qur’an, however, distinguishes: Joseph’s ruler is called king, not Pharaoh, while Moses’ adversary is called Pharaoh. Historically, Qur’an is correct NOT every ruler used to be called Pharaoh. The original meaning of “Pharaoh” was the royal palace or residence, and it only became a title for the king much later.

How exactly would Prophet Muhammad have known this if he was copying the Bible?[/i]

Samiri and the golden calf
In the Bible, Aaron, the very man God appointed as Moses’ prophet and the first High Priest is said to have built the golden calf. Think about it:, the same man chosen for honour supposedly commits the worst sin of leading Israel into idolatry? That doesn’t even make sense.

[i]The Qur’an fixes this. It names Samiri, not Aaron, as the one who made the calf. That preserves Aaron’s role as honoured prophet without attributing to him the most egregious act of betrayal against God.


I will stop here. These examples are enough. Anyone with sense can see the Qur’an didn’t copy, and if you’re serious, you can do the rest of the research yourself but wait it is the heart that is blind. Take care of yourself

You said much without addressing anything. Lots of parallels are known, that do not exist in the bible but solely in the Talmud and targums, which your wrote down🥱.
Your prophet probably heard them from Jewish speakers and couldn't differentiate between the Torah and its commentaries. I will cite one example for brevity as I do not have the time to perform a full treatise😁 with you—Believe me, you don't want me to start on Mo's plagiarism.

Consider this hadith below:
"Umar b. al-Khattab and Anas b. Malik reported God's messenger as saying that it is written in the Torah, "If anyone does not give his daughter in marriage when she reaches twelve and she commits sin, the guilt of that rests on him." Baihaqi transmitted both traditions in Shu'ab al-Iman. (Mishkat Al-Masabih English Translation With Explanatory Notes by Dr. James Robson, Volume I [Sh. Muhammad Ahsraf Publishers, Booksellers & Exporters, Lahore-Pakistan, Reprint 1990], Book XIII, Chapter III, section III, p. 667"

Simple knowledge of the Torah refutes this🥱, we later find this in the Jewish Talmud, Specifically "From 'Everyman's Talmud' by Abraham Cohen, page 162: "With regard to a girl, it was urged that the father's duty was to secure a husband for her at an early age. The verse 'Profane not thy daughter to make her a harlot' (Leviticus 19:29) was applied to a man 'who delays in arranging a marriage while she is of suitable age' (Sanhedrin 76a). She was considered to have arrived at this stage when she passed her twelfth birthday"

Obviously, the first question that pops to mind is that did your prophet mistake Torah for the Talmud? And if he used the term Torah for it, why didn't Allah correct him? 🤷

Your other claims I have refuted to your companions. If I have the strength, I will state some again; perhaps tomorrow, when I have the time to properly address them then I will.
For the record, There are lots of non-canonical works your prophet copied from. We will go over them one after the other. We will address some ridiculous hadiths as well.

Also, No semitic expression used ’sister of Aaron’ to address anyone, you just gave a blatant lie! Even you, yourself, used 'son', 'daughter' in relation to the people of old, why not ’sister’ or ’brother’?🥱

As for your Haman claim(being a priest), this is totally wrong, it's just a false equivocation on your scholars to avoid the anachronism in there. I will just look for the reply I gave one of your companions(colleagues) earlier and quote it to you. For now, I don't have time for long exegesis. Nice to make your acquaintance by the way😁.

Gabrielshow24:
Cognitive dissonance in this gar...b...le you call speech.

This is a path...e...tic attempt to deflect from the inherent flawlessness of the prophets imputed unto them by Mo! This response is a straw that addresses nothing!

You can't defend the indefensible so you have relied on deflection😁. You should know, I will not let you escape that easily.

“Does the Qur'an tell you the sin of John the Baptist or he wasn't a prophet.“

This is laughable 😅as I have stated above it offers nothing to the subject matter. If I can provide one flaw from the prophets then it negates your book's claim🥱. I don't even need Yahya as Mohammed, Ibrahim (as cited above) are sufficient to dismiss such claims!

Pls, tell us another lie🥱.

Oh Jesus didn't carry your sins and die for your sake so you are free from them?

Nice to note this stand of yours.

Please remind us the subject matter of this thread and discussion.

Was it a favour to assign a sin you claim of Aaron to another? You see even the lies in Exodus are many. Did Aaron shape the golden calf as Exodus 32:4 Vs Exodus 32:24.

Did Aaron mold the calf or it magically emerged from the fire?

Gabrielshow24:
Let me quote from reddit since it's very obvious you stole your reply from there. Here is a simple rebuttal at least from a linguist🥱:

[b]Linguistically, however, there are a few obvious problems. First, the title is correctly transliterated as ḥm nṯr tpj n jmn.“Chief (or first) servant of Amun”. Thus, it’s clear that /ḥ/ should have entered Arabic as ح and not as /h/ as in هامان (Hāmān). Second, the /m/ of ḥm is, for no reason in particular, dropped in this Arabized version. At least, no explanation is provided. Third, there is the problem of the structure of the word, as the name of the deity Amun is reconstructed by Egyptologists as /jaˈmaːnuw/ and /ʔaˈmaːnəʔ/. Thus, Egyptian Amun is a three-syllable word with one long vowel and ending with /w/ or a glottal stop. It’s not obvious at all why an “Arabized version” should result in Quranic Hāmān with two long vowels. A further point is that Hāmān, can’t, to my knowledge, be derived phonotactically from Arabic itself, as one proposal goes. In other words, Hāmān, is foreign to Arabic. Fourth, it’s also not very clear, not to say mystifying, why only one morphological component of a nominal phrase, that is, ḥm for ḥm nṯr tpj n jmn would be used as the nomen regens of a new construct state and no explanation is offered of why this should have happened or why this should be considered a particularly Arabized form of the title. Finally, to my knowledge, neither the specific proposed title ḥm Jmn, “servant of Amun”, nor ḥm + deity name, is found in ancient Egypt nor is documentation for any such title provided. Thus, Imho this is a completely absurd argument & methodology: If the Quran wished to demonstrate awareness of “secrets” of ancient Egypt, why did the author render /ḥ/ with /h/, drop the /m/ of "ḥm" for no reason in particular and choose a non-existent Egyptian title and syntax?[/b]^1a [url]https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/151lhgc/h%C4%81m%C4%81n_arabized_version_of_hamamanah%C4%81amen/[/url]

Let me now, add my own reply. We all know the scheme behind all this. You are basically looking for similar words that you can allude to inorder to avoid the inherent error in your book. The term Haman is foreign to Arabic and your other claim Ha-Amen has been refuted by the citation above.^1b

Samiri or as samiri which is typically translated as “the Samaritan“ cannot be at the time of Moses so as a result, your scholars are forced to look for alternatives because obviously it's the arabic form of an Hebrew word🤧. Your scholars continue to posit, shamir, shonmonrin among others (along with their meanings)as possible fits for such an ambiguous verse in a revelation meant to “explain all things“🥱. Either way, you have exhibited a flaw of your book.

If Elizabeth, like you say is called daughter of Aaron then why call her extended relative “sister of Aaron“🤦🏾‍♂️. It became even more specific by assuming the Father of Moses gave birth to her—Mary, daughter of Imran🥱. This doesn't align with semitic naming conventions 🤦🏾‍♂️.They would rather use daughter of ’...’ than sister of ’...’.; either way, your book failed miserably in understanding ancient ’semitic naming convention’🥱—these are also the ’uncreated words of Allah’²😮‍💨

The Quran likewise conflated the parable of Nathan the prophet and presented a skewed narrative 😮‍💨.

[1] responds to Haman's claim.
[2] ” to Mary, “sister of Aaron's“ claim.

In addition to [2],the Muslim speaker was taken aback by the christians at najran, both of these were not familiar with ’idioms’ or ’expressions’ of such nature hence they objected 🥱. To even clarify my position. Mo used ’say, My father is Moses, and my uncle Aaron’ for his Jewish wife🤨—I wonder why not ’sister’? What is more convincing is that he also used ’daughter of Aaron’ for Elizabeth but miraculously 😵‍💫used ’sister of Aaron’ for her relative🥱. Let's not also forget the double(other) connection, “daughter of Imran“😵‍💫 confirming that Mary was indeed Aaron's sister—bear in mind that I have granted this ahistorical story benefit of a doubt for argument sake—which Jewish history negates by affirming Mary was not a levite!

Cc: sterope

TenQ:
So, why do your prophet kiss the Blackstone?
Why do you Muslims kiss the Blackstone?

Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

You should do better and show that the symbolic act of remembrance and Sunnah, not worship with the black stone for some not all Muslims is anything like the worshipping a Jesus who Christians assign divinity to.

It seems you confuse what worshipping another instead of God is. Which Muslim prays to the Blackstone or asks favours from it?

Ohyoudidnt:
Oh Jesus didn't carry your sins and die for your sake so you are free from them?

Nice to note this stand of yours.

Please remind us the subject matter of this thread and discussion.

Was it a favour to assign a sin you claim of Aaron to another? You see even the lies in Exodus are many. Did Aaron shape the golden calf as Exodus 32:4 Vs Exodus 32:24.

Did Aaron mold the calf or it magically emerged from the fire?

In your bid to cover up the errors in your book, you run to the bible for reference 🤷. I have repeated it several times now: “Every book is responsible for its proof“.

Aaron of course built the golden calf, the other account you so desperately allude to is excuse(from him) to reduce his involvement.
Have you given up on your previous claims?

Oh Jesus didn't carry your sins and die for your sake so you are free from them? Better clarify and express yourself, whatsoever you wrote here has no bearing on the subject matter🤷. I remember calling your previous write up a gar....b...le because of something similar.

You[your book included] are the one that made the claim that every prophet is flawless 😅. Which is dashed completely by a simple example🥱.

Pls, be more coherent and as usual tell me another lie!

Ohyoudidnt:
You should do better and show that the symbolic act of remembrance and Sunnah, not worship with the black stone for some not all Muslims is anything like the worshipping a Jesus who Christians assign divinity to.

It seems you confuse what worshipping another instead of God is. Which Muslim prays to the Blackstone or asks favours from it?

Symbolic!?
Did you hear yourself!?
Symbolic for something that absorb sins?
Symbolic for something that intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Muslims think that bad argument is an antidote for the heavy flaw in their theology

TenQ:
So, why do your prophet kiss the Blackstone?
Why do you Muslims kiss the Blackstone?

Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

So all the acts of kissing 'saints', clergy, family members amongst the Israelites are no longer gestures of affection? Or players that kiss medals or trophies are worshipping them?

No the Blackstone doesn't absorb sins or intercede.

Come on Tenq you are supposed to be smatter than this.

TenQ:
Symbolic!?
Did you hear yourself!?
Symbolic for something that absorb sins?
Symbolic for something that intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Muslims think that bad argument is an antidote for the heavy flaw in their theology

I see you don't know it's symbolism as a marker for the circumambulation of the Kaaba.

You really are typing before thought or it has been a very tiring day. If it is the latter take a rest first. I doubt naira land will disappear before you return.

Someone read the well detailed quote below and said I have refuted nothing, what an insol.....,,,ent lie but nothing unusual about that with you anyways.

If you understood a little bit about religion, nothing special about the parallels you don't own the sole claim to God and His prophets. Lmao.

Qur'an has stripped you the right to blaspheme against God and his prophets. God doesn't regret not does he rest as claimed by the Bible. Prophets of God like Aaron never worshipped a golden calf, David would never do that to Bathseba and her husband, Solomon would never have 700 wives and 300 concubines. Jesus would never call a gentile a dog. Jacob would never have been too drunk to sleep with the wrong woman or treat her with such injustice. Jacob would never wrestle with God. Lot was never rap.......,,,,e.d by his daughters. Blasphemy upon Blasphemy!

I seek refuge with God from you!

How about that for parallels... 😆. Arabs are descendants of Ishmeal yet you are claiming sole ownership to God and his prophets? Are you high?

About how the Prophet referred to Mary, it doesn't need to make sense to you, nothing will. The reality is people call others in Semitic culture as son of, daughter of , sister of.......

Nothing surprising about your disbelief.

Quran describes you perfectly!

Indeed, those who disbelieve; it is the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil; and for them is a great punishment.

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6–7)

Did the Prophet copy the Bible?

To say the Prophet copied is the laziest argument ever.

The Qur’an’s writing is VERY DIFFERENT FROM the Bible. Few people were even scholars in his time, yet the Qur’an contains things far beyond the scope of the Bible. Access to such knowledge would have placed the Prophet at the very top of the educated elite of the world and they were very few people in that sphere and if he had copied, people would have called him out during his life and after. Do you really think the past was like today, where information is at your fingertips? . For such beautiful scholarship as the Qur'an, there should have been other works before or during his supposed scholarship with the other educated men of his time in Rome, Syria? Where are they sir?

And let’s be clear: for a liar or copyist, even the stupidest one wouldn’t “confuse” Mary with Aaron as her literal brother. The Bible’s genealogy is obvious, which only proves one thing, it wasn’t a copy. Otherwise, it would be the dumbest copy in history.

The Prophet himself explained that people were often called by the names of prophets and righteous figures before them. So Mary being called “sister of Aaron” was a cultural expression, not a mistake. It was a way of linking her to noble ancestry just as Jesus was called son of David and God calls us children of Abraham.

Mary came from the priestly line of Aaron through the family of Imran. That’s why her people invoked Aaron’s name to remind her of the honour and responsibility tied to her lineage. And the Qur’an strongly suggests Mary grew up in the temple whose first Chief Priest was Aaron himself. The Prophet is right; you know nothing.


Haman in the Qur’an vs the Bible
You assume the Bible is historically accurate. That was your first mistake. This is the same Bible where God “regrets” twice and “rests” on the seventh day, and where Moses somehow writes about his own death in Deuteronomy.

Jews themselves don’t always claim the Bible’s books are historical. The Universal Jewish Encyclopaedia says about how the boo of Esther is nto historicaly accurate:

“The very tone of the book itself, its literary craftsmanship and the aptness of its situations, point rather to a romantic story than a historical chronicle.”

Some scholars even argue it’s a reworking of Babylonian myths of Marduk and Ishtar, not Jewish history at all.
Now compare that to the Qur’an: two ancient Egyptian inscriptions the Rosetta Stone and a Stela actually mention an overseer of stonemasons with the name he-man-ḥw, which matches what the Qur’an says about Haman/someone serving Pharaoh as . I care not for the academic side of it.

Pharaoh said: "O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace (Arabic: Sarhan, lofty tower or palace), that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" [Qur'an 28:38]

Pharaoh in the Qur’an vs the Bible
The Bible casually calls every ruler of Egypt “Pharaoh.”
The Qur’an, however, distinguishes: Joseph’s ruler is called king, not Pharaoh, while Moses’ adversary is called Pharaoh. Historically, Qur’an is correct NOT every ruler used to be called Pharaoh. The original meaning of “Pharaoh” was the royal palace or residence, and it only became a title for the king much later.

How exactly would Prophet Muhammad have known this if he was copying the Bible?[/i]

Samiri and the golden calf
In the Bible, Aaron, the very man God appointed as Moses’ prophet and the first High Priest is said to have built the golden calf. Think about it:, the same man chosen for honour supposedly commits the worst sin of leading Israel into idolatry? That doesn’t even make sense.

[i]The Qur’an fixes this. It names Samiri, not Aaron, as the one who made the calf. That preserves Aaron’s role as honoured prophet without attributing to him the most egregious act of betrayal against God.


I will stop here. These examples are enough. Anyone with sense can see the Qur’an didn’t copy, and if you’re serious, you can do the rest of the research yourself but wait it is the heart that is blind. Take care of yourself

I forgot to disprove your Surah Fil

That were people older than the Propjet when that chapter was revealed and when the prophet died as well

None of them called HIM i.e the prophet a liar about the chapter of the Elephants

Not all Arabia is desert.

There is something called War Elephants and it is not unusual. Even, the Persian army had one.

In Namibia they have elephants that live in the desert.

Quran says this is what happened and neither people who don't believe in God nor people whose God regretted and rested and wrestled dare say it didn't. No one is listening to you!

We know

Allah as in Al-The; Lah - God

It is in English, God and god are the same except for the capitalisation. What is so confusing for you?

It is Like Alaha in Aramaic as well that Jesus called God in his language grin. The best part is that Arabic and Aramaic are both semite language with the same root word for the Almighty God which is L and H. cool

Allah is known to depict The Almighty God with the definitive The. As opposed to just god.

Do you have comprehension issues? Are you sure you are alright?


The nonsense about the Blackstone. It is not part of hajj ritual, Propeht kissed it once in one reported hadith and we won't hear the end of it from people who believed God let humans being mu.....,,,,rder him as a form of human......,,, sacrifice to himself. You have some ridiculous audacity. I keep telling you that. We don't worship it. If we did we won't be Muslims but pagans. It was there from time immerorial and it was left there.

I am not going back and forth with you on this. The low level argument on this thread are definite indicators that the other person isn't clever AT ALL. Nothing to argue here. My job is done!

TenQ:
Symbolic!?
Did you hear yourself!?
Symbolic for something that absorb sins?
Symbolic for something that intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Muslims think that bad argument is an antidote for the heavy flaw in their theology

You must be whining TenQ that he is smarter than this.

Someone debating Blackstone and the meaning of Allah… in 2025.

They can’t see the magic of Hajj; millions of languages, cultures, and colours coming together as one. One religion, uniting the world. They can’t even imagine the foresight. It can only be God!

And Ramadan as well? The same story billions fasting across the globe.

The idea that Islam is dangerous came as a result of this level of discipline, fundamentals that can unite billions across the world...it is scary from a conspiracy perspective

Do you actually grasp the scale of this?

God be praised. Prophet Muhammad is the most influential man alive

Dorn with you TenQ, I would hate to go back and forth on the same thing. May God guide you alright!

Ohyoudidnt:
So all the acts of kissing 'saints', clergy, family members amongst the Israelites are no longer gestures of affection? Or players that kiss medals or trophies are worshipping them?

No the Blackstone doesn't absorb sins or intercede.

Come on Tenq you are supposed to be smatter than this.

The above, in w.r.t(with respect to) my reply, still didn't say anything useful. Periphrasis without achieving anything🥱.

Your brothers did better than you in terms of coherence😵‍💫. We are not concerned with your sentiments but with fact. A simple contradiction you seemingly brought upon yourself by claiming the non-existent about David is “how then did Solomon come into existence?“🤨 Suddenly, your theology falls apart. The book that claims to explain all things in detail doesn't know all things in detail 🥱.

We appreciate the sentiment for making prophets flawless yet your Quran seemingly threw them all under the bus by asserting that only Jesus is sinless😵‍💫—there goes your allusions.

Claiming ownership of “God and his prophets“ was what led you to plagiarize their book🥱.
You took what you didn't have understanding of, you borrowed from everywhere: Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Judaism, Athenian school of thought and polytheistic cultures.

Don't get me started with you on all this.
Better make your message coherent and then pass it across ...

cc: sterope

Ohyoudidnt:
So all the acts of kissing 'saints', clergy, family members amongst the Israelites are no longer gestures of affection? Or players that kiss medals or trophies are worshipping them?

No the Blackstone doesn't absorb sins or intercede.

Come on Tenq you are supposed to be smatter than this.

Don't change the embarrassing topic
Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


You said the black stone doesn't absorb sin nor intercede!?
Who taught you that?

On Forgiveness of sin on touching the Blackstone

Sunan an-Nasa'i 2919
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Ubaid bin Umair that a man said: "O Abu abdur-Rahman, why do I only see you touching these two corners?" He said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'Touching them erases sins.' And I head him say: 'whoever circumambulates seven times, it is like freeing a slave.'"

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 959
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father:
"Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."


On intersession for you Muslims by the Blackstone

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."


Oya, thank me for teaching you the real Islam.



Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Someone read the well detailed quote below and said I have refuted nothing, what an insol.....,,,ent lie but nothing unusual about that with you anyways.

If you understood a little bit about religion, nothing special about the parallels you don't own the sole claim to God and His prophets. Lmao.

Qur'an has stripped you the right to blaspheme against God and his prophets. God doesn't regret not does he rest as claimed by the Bible. Prophets of God like Aaron never worshipped a golden calf, David would never do that to Bathseba and her husband, Solomon would never have 700 wives and 300 concubines. Jesus would never call a gentile a dog. Jacob would never have been too drunk to sleep with the wrong woman or treat her with such injustice. Jacob would never wrestle with God. Lot was never rap.......,,,,e.d by his daughters. Blasphemy upon Blasphemy!

I seek refuge with God from you!

How about that for parallels... 😆. Arabs are descendants of Ishmeal yet you are claiming sole ownership to God and his prophets? Are you high?

About how the Prophet referred to Mary, it doesn't need to make sense to you, nothing will. The reality is people call others in Semitic culture as son of, daughter of , sister of.......

Nothing surprising about your disbelief.

Quran describes you perfectly!

Indeed, those who disbelieve; it is the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them – they will not believe. Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil; and for them is a great punishment.

Surah Al-Baqarah (2:6–7)

Did the Prophet copy the Bible?

To say the Prophet copied is the laziest argument ever.

The Qur’an’s writing is VERY DIFFERENT FROM the Bible. Few people were even scholars in his time, yet the Qur’an contains things far beyond the scope of the Bible. Access to such knowledge would have placed the Prophet at the very top of the educated elite of the world and they were very few people in that sphere and if he had copied, people would have called him out during his life and after. Do you really think the past was like today, where information is at your fingertips? . For such beautiful scholarship as the Qur'an, there should have been other works before or during his supposed scholarship with the other educated men of his time in Rome, Syria? Where are they sir?

And let’s be clear: for a liar or copyist, even the stupidest one wouldn’t “confuse” Mary with Aaron as her literal brother. The Bible’s genealogy is obvious, which only proves one thing, it wasn’t a copy. Otherwise, it would be the dumbest copy in history.

The Prophet himself explained that people were often called by the names of prophets and righteous figures before them. So Mary being called “sister of Aaron” was a cultural expression, not a mistake. It was a way of linking her to noble ancestry just as Jesus was called son of David and God calls us children of Abraham.

Mary came from the priestly line of Aaron through the family of Imran. That’s why her people invoked Aaron’s name to remind her of the honour and responsibility tied to her lineage. And the Qur’an strongly suggests Mary grew up in the temple whose first Chief Priest was Aaron himself. The Prophet is right; you know nothing.


Haman in the Qur’an vs the Bible
You assume the Bible is historically accurate. That was your first mistake. This is the same Bible where God “regrets” twice and “rests” on the seventh day, and where Moses somehow writes about his own death in Deuteronomy.

Jews themselves don’t always claim the Bible’s books are historical. The Universal Jewish Encyclopaedia says about how the boo of Esther is nto historicaly accurate:

“The very tone of the book itself, its literary craftsmanship and the aptness of its situations, point rather to a romantic story than a historical chronicle.”

Some scholars even argue it’s a reworking of Babylonian myths of Marduk and Ishtar, not Jewish history at all.
Now compare that to the Qur’an: two ancient Egyptian inscriptions the Rosetta Stone and a Stela actually mention an overseer of stonemasons with the name he-man-ḥw, which matches what the Qur’an says about Haman/someone serving Pharaoh as . I care not for the academic side of it.

Pharaoh said: "O Haman! light me a (kiln to bake bricks) out of clay, and build me a lofty palace (Arabic: Sarhan, lofty tower or palace), that I may mount up to the god of Moses: but as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar!" [Qur'an 28:38]

Pharaoh in the Qur’an vs the Bible
The Bible casually calls every ruler of Egypt “Pharaoh.”
The Qur’an, however, distinguishes: Joseph’s ruler is called king, not Pharaoh, while Moses’ adversary is called Pharaoh. Historically, Qur’an is correct NOT every ruler used to be called Pharaoh. The original meaning of “Pharaoh” was the royal palace or residence, and it only became a title for the king much later.

How exactly would Prophet Muhammad have known this if he was copying the Bible?[/i]

Samiri and the golden calf
In the Bible, Aaron, the very man God appointed as Moses’ prophet and the first High Priest is said to have built the golden calf. Think about it:, the same man chosen for honour supposedly commits the worst sin of leading Israel into idolatry? That doesn’t even make sense.

[i]The Qur’an fixes this. It names Samiri, not Aaron, as the one who made the calf. That preserves Aaron’s role as honoured prophet without attributing to him the most egregious act of betrayal against God.


I will stop here. These examples are enough. Anyone with sense can see the Qur’an didn’t copy, and if you’re serious, you can do the rest of the research yourself but wait it is the heart that is blind. Take care of yourself

Gabrielshow24:
The above, in w.r.t(with respect to) my reply, still didn't say anything useful. Periphrasis without achieving anything🥱.

Your brothers did better than you in terms of coherence😵‍💫. We are not concerned with your sentiments but with fact. A simple contradiction you seemingly brought upon yourself by claiming the non-existent about David is “how then did Solomon come into existence?“🤨 Suddenly, your theology falls apart. The book that claims to explain all things in detail doesn't know all things in detail 🥱.

We appreciate the sentiment for making prophets flawless yet your Quran seemingly threw them all under the bus by asserting that only Jesus is sinless😵‍💫—there goes your allusions.

Claiming ownership of “God and his prophets“ was what led you to plagiarize their book🥱.
You took what you didn't have understanding of, you borrowed from everywhere: Zoroastrianism, Christianity, Judaism, Athenian school of thought and polytheistic cultures.

Don't get me started with you on all this.
Better make your message coherent and then pass it across ...

cc: sterope

Sterope:
You must be whining TenQ that he is smarter than this.

Someone debating Blackstone and the meaning of Allah… in 2025.

They can’t see the magic of Hajj; millions of languages, cultures, and colours coming together as one. One religion, uniting the world. They can’t even imagine the foresight. It can only be God!

And Ramadan as well? The same story billions fasting across the globe.

The idea that Islam is dangerous came as a result of this level of discipline, fundamentals that can unite billions across the world...it is scary from a conspiracy perspective

Do you actually grasp the scale of this?

God be praised. Prophet Muhammad is the most influential man alive

Dorn with you TenQ, I would hate to go back and forth on the same thing. May God guide you alright!

What a shallow argument!

You are claiming that because billions worship Allah, then Islam must be TRUE!?

Hear what your prophet said:

Sahih al-Bukhari 304
Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

Once they realise that they can't come for Qur'an.

They go for hadiths despite the whole loads of complexity with hadiths. Hadiths is always the victim.

If you like read your explanation and the TRUE and RIGHT TRANSLATION of the hadith

https://www.aljumuah.com/women-men-and-intellectual-deficiency/

TenQ:
What a shallow argument!

You are claiming that because billions worship Allah, then Islam must be TRUE!?

Hear what your prophet said:

Sahih al-Bukhari 304
Narrated Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri:
Once Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of `Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) ?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."

TenQ:
Don't change the embarrassing topic
Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


You said the black stone doesn't absorb sin nor intercede!?
Who taught you that?

On Forgiveness of sin on touching the Blackstone

Sunan an-Nasa'i 2919
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Ubaid bin Umair that a man said: "O Abu abdur-Rahman, why do I only see you touching these two corners?" He said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'Touching them erases sins.' And I head him say: 'whoever circumambulates seven times, it is like freeing a slave.'"

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 959
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father:
"Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."


On intersession for you Muslims by the Blackstone

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."


Oya, thank me for teaching you the real Islam.



Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

Mangnimally ludicrous. Why not just say it's prayer that forgives sins.
Is it the prayer or the one who is prayed to that forgives?

You are trying too hard on terribly twisted understanding.

Didn't you see my response?

Ohyoudidnt:
So all the acts of kissing 'saints', clergy, family members amongst the Israelites are no longer gestures of affection? Or players that kiss medals or trophies are worshipping them?

No the Blackstone doesn't absorb sins or intercede.

Come on Tenq you are supposed to be smatter than this.

Anything about the Blackstone being at the right hand of God is fabrication.

Allah forgives minor sins as a reward for obedience and following the tradition of the prophet pbuh by performing wudu, praying salat, doing good deeds, touching the black stone. The forgiving is equated to erasing and no it's not the black stone that does this but Allah. Do you attempt to claim those who don't get to touch the Blackstone during pilgrimage or don't perform pilgrimage at all will not be forgiving their sins when they sincerely repent of them?


Major sins are not erased for sake of touching the black stone and require repentance.

The Stone is not divine; it is honored because Allah and His Messenger pbuh commanded honoring it.

PS: An idol can be anything that we love or prioritize more than God, including ideas, people, or even our own desires not just a physical representation of a deity.

Sterope:
You must be whining TenQ that he is smarter than this.

Someone debating Blackstone and the meaning of Allah… in 2025.

They can’t see the magic of Hajj; millions of languages, cultures, and colours coming together as one. One religion, uniting the world. They can’t even imagine the foresight. It can only be God!

And Ramadan as well? The same story billions fasting across the globe.

The idea that Islam is dangerous came as a result of this level of discipline, fundamentals that can unite billions across the world...it is scary from a conspiracy perspective

Do you actually grasp the scale of this?

God be praised. Prophet Muhammad is the most influential man alive

Dorn with you TenQ, I would hate to go back and forth on the same thing. May God guide you alright!

No he seems quite smart except for his obsession with faulty conclusions.

If you say so, once someone starts with Allah and Balckstone. I don't take them seriously.

Ohyoudidnt:
No he seems quite smart except for his obsession with faulty conclusions.

Sterope:
If you say so, once someone starts with Allah and Balckstone. I don't take them seriously.

Quite good. Though likely a waste but it's good to make some effort to correct misunderstanding and misinformation.

Sterope:
Once they realise that they can't come for Qur'an.

They go for hadiths despite the whole loads of complexity with hadiths. Hadiths is always the victim.

If you like read your explanation and the TRUE and RIGHT TRANSLATION of the hadith

https://www.aljumuah.com/women-men-and-intellectual-deficiency/

Too many flaws even with the Qur'an, but it is not the point of today.
-the sun setting in the murky waters
-gog and magog
-Errors in copying the law of retribution of Moses
-women with reproductive fluids from their Toraib
- the hail coming from mountains in the sky
- halal prostitution
- men allowed to have brothels with their girls
-errors in history etc etc etc

Please don't go there. The book is a COMEDY of ERRORS and JEOPARDY at best

Back to the hadith:

Is the hadith UNTRUE?

Sterope:
TenQ

Jesus Is Not God

God is not His creation, and never will be. The Creator does not become the created. My God does not punish one soul for another’s sin. Why should I bear Adam’s guilt? In the Qur'an when God forgave Adam and his wife upon their repentance and not a sacrifice was required.

My God does not demand human.....,,, sacrifice for sins others committed. He forgives out of His mercy; He does not require an innocent to die for the guilty. No should shall bear the burden of another. My God is the Most Merciful to the truly repentant.

It's just your claims ma which are unsubstantiated and erroneous.
Tell me then
1. Why is Jesus the only human who is a co-creator of Life with Allah?
2. Why is Jesus the only with Allah in paradise?
3. Why Jesus was born without a human father BUT He has a Father anyways?

Is Allah Just ? For if Allah is Just, he must not overlook sin!
You don't even understand what is called Mercy!

Does Allah have the capability to be JUST and MERCIFUL at the same time?
Think before you respond o!

Sterope:
The Gospels and Their Authors
Much of what is claimed about Jesus comes from texts written decades later, not by eyewitnesses. Nearly half his life is unrecorded; the rest pieced together from anonymous accounts.

John was a fisherman, unlikely to have written sophisticated Greek. His gospel never names him. Matthew is also anonymous; no proof he wrote it.

Luke and Mark were not disciples at all. And for Paul, only God can forgive him.

It took your early father's 300 years to develop the concept of trinity.

I refuse to build my belief in God on uncertain attributions and second-hand claims.

Do we use your standard on the Qur'an and see if it would pass?
1. Where is the Qur'an written by Mohammed?
2. Where is the Qur'an written by Uthman?
3. If what you claim about the Bible is correct, temm me how came both Allah and Mohammad thinks otherwise?
Are you better in knowledge than Allah?

Sterope:
Jesus

He referred to a gentile woman as a “dog” (something Muslims don’t accept).

He feared death, and cried out for rescue.

He admitted not knowing the Hour, didn't even know the fig's season

He was tempted by the devil and repeatedly, he said: “God sent me/I am below God.”

That is not God but a man under God’s authority?

When Jibril became a perfect human, was he perfectly human or inhuman?

So, that you will balance it well
But the same Jesus
-He forgave peoples sins!
-He said that He was God's son
-He said that he would die and rise again
-He said as Moses hung a bronze serpent in the wilderness He would be hung so that in believing, you will be saved
-He said whatever the Father does, He too does
-He said that He and His Father are One
-He said where two or more of us are gathered, He is in our midst

Sterope:
What the Prophets Would Say
The core doctrines of Christianity original sin and the Trinity are absent from the Old Testament. Would Abraham or Moses have accepted the idea that the Creator became His own creation and died? They would have been astonished at such claims.

Even your scriptures describe God in ways Muslims would never accept:

a God who “regretted” creating man and flooding the earth, a God who “rested,” after the sixth day, a God who “wrestled” Jacob or a God deceived.

I seek refuge in My God from such blasphemies, it must be whispers of the devil that drove men to write such blasphemy.

More claims but then let's see what you know
But your prophet believe in the original sin. It seems you don't know!?

Are you aware that Allah is the only God that uses the language "MAYBE"!?
Meaning that he doesn't know for certain!

Tell me, why is Allah a SUBSET of the extended universe if he is the creator?

Sterope:
I Worship as Jesus Worshipped

I worship as Jesus worshipped: bowing, praying, and submitting to the One who sent him. Not inventing doctrines he never preached.

Above all, he said:
“I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”
Not to you. Not to me.

May peace and blessings of God be upon Jesus, the son of Mary.

So. By the way you worship, you are a Buddhist!?
LOL!

You seem not to know that you have more in common with Buddhists in prayer than any other religion!?

Sterope:
Why Compare Prophets Jesus with Muhammad?

For the umpteenth time: why compare Jesus to Muhammad (peace be upon them both)? Muslims know Muhammad was fully human. It would be a sin to equate him with God, just as it would be a sin to elevate Jesus to divinity. True Muslims do not rank prophets against one another; they were all noble men, chosen by God, and not the distorted portrayals found in the Bible

They are incomparable.
Like the comparison between light and darkness!?
No we don't compare because they are Opposite !!

We can only contrast Jesus and Mohammed as we contrast Truth and it's opposite.

Tell me:
Why did your prophet compare Allah to the Dajjal?


Hot Blood and compilation of meaningless rhetorics wouldn't make you correct ma!

When you know the truth, the truth set you free!

Ohyoudidnt:
Mangnimally ludicrous. Why not just say it's prayer that forgives sins.
Is it the prayer or the one who is prayed to that forgives?

You are trying too hard on terribly twisted understanding.

Didn't you see my response?



Anything about the Blackstone being at the right hand of God is fabrication.

Allah forgives minor sins as a reward for obedience and following the tradition of the prophet pbuh by performing wudu, praying salat, doing good deeds, touching the black stone. The forgiving is equated to erasing and no it's not the black stone that does this but Allah. Do you attempt to claim those who don't get to touch the Blackstone during pilgrimage or don't perform pilgrimage at all will not be forgiving their sins when they sincerely repent of them?


Major sins are not erased for sake of touching the black stone and require repentance.

The Stone is not divine; it is honored because Allah and His Messenger pbuh commanded honoring it.

PS: An idol can be anything that we love or prioritize more than God, including ideas, people, or even our own desires not just a physical representation of a deity.

Can you see how your people are deleting my posts!?

It is now even automatic!

Instill wonder how you can read your hadith in black and white with YELLOW highlights and come to an opposite conclusion.

Why do you choose to tell lies to yourself?


Sunan an-Nasa'i 2919
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Ubaid bin Umair that a man said: "O Abu abdur-Rahman, why do I only see you touching these two corners?" He said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'Touching them erases sins.'And I head him say: 'whoever circumambulates seven times, it is like freeing a slave.'"

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 959
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father: "Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."

TenQ:
Can you see how your people are deleting my posts!?

It is now even automatic!

Instill wonder how you can read your hadith in black and white with YELLOW highlights and come to an opposite conclusion.

Why do you choose to tell lies to yourself?


Sunan an-Nasa'i 2919
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Ubaid bin Umair that a man said: "O Abu abdur-Rahman, why do I only see you touching these two corners?" He said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'Touching them erases sins.'And I head him say: 'whoever circumambulates seven times, it is like freeing a slave.'"

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 959
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father: "Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."

Now you have clearly seen my response that the Blackstone neither absorbs sins or intercedes

You ignore my question on why not saying it is prayer that forgives sins not Allah or God or YHVH if you like. This personal name of God that Jesus never used. (Pardon the digression)

Could you tell what the grading for these hadiths say of them? Can you associate them with particular verses of the Qur'an?

Do you understand that touching or kissing the Black stone goes with the tradition or practice of pilgrimage?

Do you acknowledge it as an act of devotion practiced during Hajj or Umrah, which is often symbolic in nature?

You know it is fundamental that sinful actions should be compensated with sincere repentance and obedience to God's guidance.

Though the practice holds collective significance, it is not in itself a guarantee for sinners’ remission. Allah alone forgives, and those seeking forgiveness must be sincere, obey His directives, and embrace Islamic laws.


Kissing the stone is a good deed appealing to Allah potentially remitting past sins.

Let me ask you this based on your adherence to this hadith why don't people just go to the Kaaba, kiss or touch the stone alone and come back with assurance that their sins are forgiven?