₦airaland Forum

Gabrielshow24:
You think this helps you.
One thing you failed to get is that we do not have such claims😅. Your ignorance filled prophet made such claims. So, this mental gymnastics to incorporate the bible doesn't do you any avail! It just shows that time and time again, no one could make sense of what the ’book that supposedly explains all things’ without ’knowledge’ of our book🥱.

You are very shy guy 🤣. Bickering about Aaron doesn't profit you either. It just highlights the historical discrepancies in your book. The bible recorded his direct speech(toned down version) and the general perspective—Using this as some kind of... proof🥱 is just desperation.

The claim is part of your SIN or you suddenly do not take them to be true? 🤨Pls, tell me another lie!

That's if I need any help.

I ain't bickering but clearly seeking a logical explanation of the anomaly there and you come up with a childish fraudulent excuse claim?

So early in what you call your book tells a lot about the foundation it's built on and the resulting structure called the Bible

TenQ:
I challenge you to look for the monika sterope and find out if there is any trace of communication between us on Nairaland.

ALL have been deleted by him

Just search for sterope and tell me what you see!
LOL


He's indeed a Jihadist working hard for Allah by suppressing the TRUTH!

Of what use exactly is to me? It's not unusual to have Nairaand accounts become redundant or totally disappear. What's the big deal?


These are your classification about him? His truth mustn't be yours and vice versa but the Truth remains the truth

Gabrielshow24:
🤣🤣🤣It surely is! We stand on the truth and not on lies🤤. We have survived critisms from all scholarship endeavors! While they cower and hide themselves.
Surely, the internet is the ’dea...’ of Is...lam

Indeed for a religion that survives on deception as taught to them by the Al-Makr himself, FREE information is a disaster !
This is why they just must insist on lies while thinking that we believe them the more they scream their conjectures

honesttalk21:
Of what use exactly is to me? It's not unusual to have Nairaand accounts become redundant or totally disappear. What's the big deal?

Muslims hate the truth as always!

Why dont you check for your own conversations with him yesterday and see if it still exist: at least you chatted with him.
Where is the post?


Here is someone else noticing this same thing
https://www.nairaland.com/8505220/quran-105-unveiling-true-hidden/4#136626536

TenQ:
OhYoudidnt and Honesttalk21

The identity of the Jihadist banning Truths and deleting them from the Nairaland platform is now known.

Is this your answer to my question emboldened here?

Ohyoudidnt:
Now you have clearly seen my response that the Blackstone neither absorbs sins or intercedes

You ignore my question on why not saying it is prayer that forgives sins not Allah or God or YHVH if you like. This personal name of God that Jesus never used. (Pardon the digression)

Could you tell what the grading for these hadiths say of them? Can you associate them with particular verses of the Qur'an?

Do you understand that touching or kissing the Black stone goes with the tradition or practice of pilgrimage?

Do you acknowledge it as an act of devotion practiced during Hajj or Umrah, which is often symbolic in nature?

You know it is fundamental that sinful actions should be compensated with sincere repentance and obedience to God's guidance.

Though the practice holds collective significance, it is not in itself a guarantee for sinners’ remission. Allah alone forgives, and those seeking forgiveness must be sincere, obey His directives, and embrace Islamic laws.


Kissing the stone is a good deed appealing to Allah potentially remitting past sins.

Let me ask you this based on your adherence to this hadith why don't people just go to the Kaaba, kiss or touch the stone alone and come back with assurance that their sins are forgiven?

Tell me.

TenQ:
Muslims hate the truth as always!

Why dont you check for your own conversations with him yesterday and see if it still exist: at least you chatted with him.
Where is the post?


Here is someone else noticing this same thing
https://www.nairaland.com/8505220/quran-105-unveiling-true-hidden/4#136626536

I disagree with you. I don't dislike the truth even if a lot around me works on falsehood. Lies, corruption etc.

Of what use is one person sharing your view, I see some posts of Sterope and don't know which ones you say disappeared. Could it be Nairaand system that removed them as you falsely accuse me of being involved in?

honesttalk21:
In regards to context the Quraysh accused Muhammad pbuh of merely retelling tales of the ancients because they had picked up snippets of old stories from Jews and Christians, rather than having any genuine understanding of the scriptures themselves.

These accusation served as a convenient way for them to brush aside the revelation, similar to how some people today might dismiss something by saying, Oh, that’s just the same old myth recycled.

.

SIRTee15:
Honesttalk21 pls tell us where was Muhammed when Waraka, the Nestorian Christian used to read out loud the GOSPEL STORIES.
[s]
Aisha also said: "The Prophet returned to Khadija while his heart was beating rapidly. She took him to Waraqah bin Naufal who was a Christian convert and used to read the Gospel in Arabic.[/s]

Waraka ibn Nawfal was Muhammed's cousin. He was the one who told Muhammed he was a prophet.

Muhammed was an illiterate, that doesn't mean he was deaf. Muhammed could hear very well.

How come Muhammed never heard his uncle Waraqah ibn Nawfal read out Loud bible stories.

Something isn't right. U guys are hiding something.

The people of Quraysh knew the bible stories and even boldy said they could replicate it themselves.

But Muhammed had to wait for Bro Jubril in the cave b4 he knew any bible story.

1. I am not aware that Waraqah read out loud the Gospel stories.

2.Yes the narrative is in line with what happened after the first revelation in the cave. Waraqah had left polytheism and new the Torah and Injil as he understood Hebrew language.

3. Waraqah was Khadijah 's (the prophet's wife) cousin not Muhammad's pbuh

4. You say cousin in error then Uncle? The prophet is not known to have had earlier close relations with Waraqah who passed shortly after the first revelation.

honesttalk21:
I disagree with you. I don't dislike the truth even if a lot around me works on falsehood. Lies, corruption etc.

Of what use is one person sharing your view, I see some posts of Sterope and don't know which ones you say disappeared. Could it be Nairaand system that removed them as you falsely accuse me of being involved in?

Did you search for his Monika?

From there, you can see all his chat history with everyone including you and they are DELETED!

Check!


Nairaland system doesn't delete all chats even when you leave Nairaland officially. Your chats remain permanently on the system.

How come Allah your chats with him disappeared?

SIRTee15:
.

Just a .?

TenQ:
Did you search for his Monika?

From there, you can see all his chat history with everyone including you and they are DELETED!

Check!


Nairaland system doesn't delete all chats even when you leave Nairaland officially. Your chats remain permanently on the system.

How come Allah your chats with him disappeared?

I don't know

Ohyoudidnt:
Is this your answer to my question emboldened here?



Tell me.

I showed you clearly that the black stone atone for your sin when you touch it, didn't I?

It seems you somehow forgot!?

TenQ:
Don't change the embarrassing topic
Does the stone absorb sins?
Does the stone intercede for Muslims?

Is the Blackstone is the right hand of Allah?


You said the black stone doesn't absorb sin nor intercede!?
Who taught you that?

On Forgiveness of sin on touching the Blackstone

Sunan an-Nasa'i 2919
It was narrated from Abdullah bin Ubaid bin Umair that a man said: "O Abu abdur-Rahman, why do I only see you touching these two corners?" He said: "I heard the Messenger of Allah say: 'Touching them erases sins.' And I head him say: 'whoever circumambulates seven times, it is like freeing a slave.'"

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 959
Ibn Ubaid bin Umair narrated from his father:
"Ibn Umar was clinging on the two corners (in a manner that I had not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet doing) so I said: 'O Abu Abdur-Rahman! You are clinging on the two corners in a manner that I have not seen any of the Companions of the Prophet clining.' So he said: 'I do it because I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "Touching them atones for sins." And I heard him saying: "Whoever performs Tawaf around this House seven times and he keeps track of it, then it is as if he freed a slave." And I heard him saying: "One foot is not put down, nor another raised except that Allah removes a sin from him and records a good merit for him."


On intersession for you Muslims by the Blackstone

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."

Jami` at-Tirmidhi 961
Ibn Abbas narrated that: The Messenger of Allah said about the (Black) Stone: "By Allah! Allah will raise it on the Day of Resurrection with two eyes by which it sees and a tongue that it speaks with, testifying to whoever touched it in truth."


Oya, thank me for teaching you the real Islam.



Tell me if this is NOT idolatry?
An Idol is a physical representation of a Deity who perform some of the functions of the Deity!

honesttalk21:
I don't know

So, all you know is that
1. He is not a Nairaland Admin
2. He did not delete the chats


Jibril must have deleted the chats then. LOL!!



Can you see how Muslims behave?
You close your eyes to the TRUTH if you don't like it

TenQ:
So, all you know is that
1. He is not a Nairaland Admin
2. He did not delete the chats


Jibril must have deleted the chats then. LOL!!



Can you see how Muslims behave?
You close your eyes to the TRUTH if you don't like it

My not knowing isn't premise for you to invent a story then mockingly pinning it on Jibril isn't an argument.

Stick to verifiable truths not conspiracy jokes.

TenQ:
I showed you clearly that the black stone atone for your sin when you touch it, didn't I?

It seems you somehow forgot!?

I have challenged you to now say based on the powers and importance you give to the stone why just going to touch it or kiss it isn't enough for ardents to your view of it's power.


You cannot answer as the stupidity of your premises are now laid out to you.

Well I will stick to my older resolves about you

honesttalk21:
My not knowing isn't premise for you to invent a story then mockingly pinning it on Jibril isn't an argument.

Stick to verifiable truths not conspiracy jokes.

But , to you,
all you know is that
1. He is not a Nairaland Admin
2. He did not delete the chats
3. It's not Jibril

So, who is the person behind the masquerade?

Ohyoudidnt:
I have challenged you to now say based on the powers and importance you give to the stone why just going to touch it or kiss it isn't enough for ardents to your view of it's power.


You cannot answer as the stupidity of your premises are now laid out to you.

Well I will stick to my older resolves about you

Who told you that it is not enough to to touch the stone for sins of the sincere believer to be forgiven.

Isn't that the criteria?

You touch it with sincerity for your sins to be forgiven: is their any other requirement apart from this?

What did your prophet say will happen to those who touch the Blackstone?

Ohyoudidnt:
That's if I need any help.

I ain't bickering but clearly seeking a logical explanation of the anomaly there and you come up with a childish fraudulent excuse claim?

So early in what you call your book tells a lot about the foundation it's built on and the resulting structure called the Bible

What anomaly is there 🤷, if the mode of reports are different. One is first person 🤷hence the more reason why Aaron tried to tone down his involvement, visibly transferring blame to the Israelites. 🤨 What aspect of this don't you get? Is this the first time people have tried to transfer blame to someone or something else? Is it not prevalent now as it was then? It shows the characteristics of man which buttresses our point that He was a man chosen by God, not that “he was flawless“ 🥱.

Tell us another lie. You still don't get the Islamic dilemma 😅whichever way, you are still wrong. The bible from the very beginning highlights man's weakness. It didn't posit man was perfect or the prophets of God were flawless but rather affirmed the opposite.

It's seems this is your last resort. After failing to prove your Quranic claims, you have hinged your new strategy at discrediting the bible, claiming false representation of prophets😅. Which by the way, your SIN along with the hadiths depict some ’detailed' stories of the prophets. I asked your colleague, ste...rile-rope, before she decided to run away, “how Solomon came into existence when she implied David was portrayed perfect in your books?“🤨—A claim she couldn't substantiate by the way.

Pls, do better than this.

TenQ:
Who told you that it is not enough to to touch the stone for sins of the sincere believer to be forgiven.

Isn't that the criteria?

You touch it with sincerity for your sins to be forgiven: is their any other requirement apart from this?

What did your prophet say will happen to those who touch the Blackstone?

Please present reports of people doing solely this and validation that this alone is enough.

Gabrielshow24:
What anomaly is there 🤷, if the mode of reports are different. One is first person 🤷hence the more reason why Aaron tried to tone down his involvement, visibly transferring blame to the Israelites. 🤨 What aspect of this don't you get? Is this the first time people have tried to transfer blame to someone or something else? Is it not prevalent now as it was then? It shows the characteristics of man which buttresses our point that He was a man chosen by God, not that “he was flawless“ 🥱.

Tell us another lie. You still don't get the Islamic dilemma 😅whichever way, you are still wrong. The bible from the very beginning highlights man's weakness. It didn't posit man was perfect or the prophets of God were flawless but rather affirmed the opposite.

It's seems this is your last resort. After failing to prove your Quranic claims, you have hinged your new strategy at discrediting the bible, claiming false representation of prophets😅. Which by the way, your SIN along with the hadiths depict some ’detailed' stories of the prophets. I asked your colleague, ste...rile-rope, before she decided to run away, “how Solomon came into existence when she implied David was portrayed perfect in your books?“🤨—A claim she couldn't substantiate by the way.

Pls, do better than this.

How is this a toning down? In both cases he collects the gold and casts them into fire?

The only difference is a claim in one not to have moulded the idol?

The very first high priest having this much involvement in actions towards idolatry? How?

Ohyoudidnt:
Reference for this please. I know you don't expect me to just take your words for this.

Are you trying to give the impression that there wasn't any form of moulded object worship around the Israelites in Egypt before this incident?

@Sirtee15 is all by your stating? Where is your proof?

Ohyoudidnt:
How is this a toning down? In both cases he collects the gold and casts them into fire?

The only difference is a claim in one not to have moulded the idol?

The very first high priest having this much involvement in actions towards idolatry? How?

🤨 Appealing to ignorance and personal incredulity doesn't help you. As it's affirmed he was a man that caved under pressure 😅, Moses under a different circumstance gave the Israelites ’divorce laws’, clearly highlighted by Jesus that it wasn't so from the beginning 👌.They both were men under God not perfect flawless beings.

If you find that impossible to reconcile with; that's your conundrum, not mine!

Gabrielshow24:
🤨 Appealing to ignorance and personal incredulity doesn't help you. As it's affirmed he was a man that caved under pressure 😅, Moses under a different circumstance gave the Israelites ’divorce laws’, clearly highlighted by Jesus that it wasn't so from the beginning 👌.They both were men under God not perfect flawless beings.

If you find that impossible to reconcile with; that's your conundrum, not mine!

Moses permitting divorce under God’s allowance is not the same as Aaron building an idol. One is concession, the other is idolatry. So tell me how does the first high priest of Israel leading people into idol worship not shatter his role entirely?

Muhammad’s message is consistent with the central message of all prophets: God is one, not triune. Jesus never preached a trinity either.

There is nothing in the doctrine you follow today that reflects the message Jesus actually brought. He did not write the gospels, and none of his disciples were involved in writing them.

When speaking directly, Jesus advised people to follow the Pharisees and was clear that he did not come to abolish the law.

And if, according to you, Jesus is God, then explain this: how does “turning the other cheek” align with the four genocides in the Old Testament? Should we also “turn the other cheek” in the face of murder, rape, injustice? Lmao!

DoctorStanley:
So you truly believe Jesus's message of trun the other cheek and pray for your enemies is the same message Muhammad brought with the Koran?

It is common sense to interpret ambiguous statements in light of clear ones; not the other way around. What Paul and Trinitarian Christians do instead is the reverse; they bend the clear words of Jesus to fit a handful of ambiguous statements. That is nothing but the devil’s whisper.

Jesus was extremely clear, he is not God, but a messenger of God. Yet you set aside these plain statements and cling to verses that are vague, open to multiple meanings, or even reported by others while Jesus himself remained silent. They elevate these unclear texts to cancel out what is clear.

For example:

Clear statement – John 17:3: “This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” Here, Jesus openly distinguishes himself from God.

Ambiguous statement – John 10:30: “I and the Father are one.” Christians take this to mean equality in divinity, while the context shows Jesus was speaking of unity in purpose, not essence (as proven in John 17:21, where he prays that his disciples "may be one, as we are one".


And yet, these ambiguous statements became the very foundation of your faith; a foundation that required centuries of wrangling and nearly 300 years to finally coin the term "Trinity". The clear words of Jesus were ignored, while the vague and unclear became the cornerstone.




I also remember he said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. So what re you hung up on him?

DoctorStanley:
Jesus also said if you see him you've seen that one God. Something Muhammad or any other prophet dared not say. But love is his main message (and non-violence), quite different fro Mohammed

Sterope:
It means he is God's messenger Which he clearly confirms and explains further when he said father sent him.

I also remember he said he was sent to the lost sheep of Israel. So what re you hung up on him?

So why didn't ANY OTHER messenger say they are one with God, and once you've seen them you've seen God. Can you imagine Muhammad DARE say anything close to that? He CAN'T because he was a mere human being that God picked, a mere messenger!

DoctorStanley:
So why didn't ANY OTHER messenger say they are one with God, and once you've seen them you've seen God. Can you imagine Muhammad DARE say anything close to that? He CAN'T because he was a mere human being that God picked, a mere messenger!

If I may contribute.

Jesus’ words about being one with the Father don’t make him God; they reflect a language of representation rather than identity.
He even prayed for his disciples to be one, just as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You (John 17:21). If we take his words at face value, then by that same reasoning, all the disciples would be considered divine too.

Paul also mentioned that Christ lives in him (Gal. 2:20), yet no one refers to Paul as divine or as Christ.

Every prophet serves as God’s representative; seeing them is like witnessing God’s will in action. That’s why Muhammad pbuh never claimed divinity; the Qur’an makes that clear. Muhammad pbuh is simply a messenger; messengers have passed away before him (Qur’an 3:144). His purpose was to direct people to the One who sent him, not to confuse the distinction between Creator and creation.

So, the real question isn’t why Muhammad refrained from making such claims; it’s why you interpret Jesus’ metaphor of unity as a literal claim to divinity while overlooking that he applied the same concept of oneness to all his followers.

John 17:21–22: "that they may all be one, just as You, Father, are in me and I am in You, that they also may be in us."

So according to this, are you also God? Maybe I am God too if we take that verse literally. Clearly, what Jesus meant was sameness in purpose, not sameness in being.

Besides, there are much clearer statements where he openly says he isn’t God. Why cling so tightly to an ambiguous interpretation that directly contradicts the clearer ones? That is the height of insanity.

Other prophets didn’t need to keep repeating "I am not God." Their words were allegedly written themselves. But Christianity is unique in that its books were written about the prophet, not by him but by men who never met him and who already held preconceived opinions about him.




Why the Gospel of John is unreliable

1. John was an illiterate

John was a fisherman (Acts 4:13 calls Peter and John “uneducated and untrained”).

He could not have authored a text in advanced Greek. Someone of that education and that time years later would have also had well known disciples to spread the message . There is none.


2. Late and longest authorship

The Gospel of John was the last to be written (c. 90–100 CE).

According to theologians and scholars, Its later date and textual analysis shows it reflects theological development rather than original teachings. Funny enough, it was the only gospel that strongly attributed divinity to Jesus which again is evidence of later philosophical and theological thoughts.

Also, it was the longest gospel which further proves our theory of later theological development.


3. Anonymous work

The author never identifies himself.

“John” was attributed much later by Church tradition, not by the text itself. Not a single story of how the gospel came to be? It was like lost but found.

DoctorStanley:
So why didn't ANY OTHER messenger say they are one with God, and once you've seen them you've seen God. Can you imagine Muhammad DARE say anything close to that? He CAN'T because he was a mere human being that God picked, a mere messenger!

Ohyoudidnt:
Please present reports of people doing solely this and validation that this alone is enough.

Have I ever been to Mecca or touched the black stone and you are asking me for evidence.

Secondly, are you implying that your prophet told a lie that Touching the Blackstone erases your sins?


You have not answered me:
What did your prophet say will happen to those who touch the Blackstone?

honesttalk21:
I disagree with you. I don't dislike the truth even if a lot around me works on falsehood. Lies, corruption etc.

Of what use is one person sharing your view, I see some posts of Sterope and don't know which ones you say disappeared. Could it be Nairaand system that removed them as you falsely accuse me of being involved in?

Can you please show me exactly where I accused you as a person!?

If you see sterope posts, please copy it and post it as evidence: especially the conversation the two of you had yesterday.


I am sure you can't post it because he has deleted it. Only an Admin of great privilege can do that.

And check:
Sterope is not a newbie on Nairaland, he's been here for ages. He used to argue on religious things then.
Ask yourself where all those posts are: he has deleted them?

Statements by Jesus affirming he is a messenger


He said it himself and he had a lot of human deficiencies

1. John 17:3 - This is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

2. John 5:30 – By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me.

3. John 8:28–29 - I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. The one who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what pleases him.


4. John 12:49 – For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.


5. Matthew 10:40 – Whoever welcomes you welcomes me, and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me.

6. Mark 13:32 – But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

7. Luke 2:52 – And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

8. John 5:30 – By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear

9. Luke 24:49 – I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay… until you have been clothed with power from on high.

Didn't I say the gospels are unreliable, no one should bother with anonymous texts sef