₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
Well here they are. I have reposted them several times since I first listed them on this board 12 years ago. Can you go at them one by one - rather than do what most people do by simply broadly waving them aside and proceeding to cite verses they think suport the deity of Christ.

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D1 - I Tim. 2:5: - For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus Christ”


D2 - John 14:28 – “I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I”.


D3 - I Cor. 11:3 - “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God “


D4 - Eph. 1:15 - 17. - “15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him”


D5 - I Pet 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"


D6 - Mark 10:18 - “So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”


D7 - I Cor. 15:28 - “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.”


D8 - John 15:1 – 10:“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 “By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. 9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


D9 - John 20:17 – “Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”


D 10 - John 17:1 - 8 – “1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 “as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 “I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 “Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 “For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me."


D 11 - Mark 13:32 - “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”


D12 - Acts 2:22 – 24 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken[b] by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.


D13 - Luke 22:41 - 42 – “41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” (The Prayer in Gethsemane).


D14 - John 8:40 - “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.”


D15 - Luke 23:32 - 34 – “There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”


D16 - Matt 21:33 – 42 “33 Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 “Now when vintage–time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 “And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.

36 “Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 “Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 “But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 “So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’

(The Parable of the Vineyard)


D17 - Matt 27:45 – 46 “45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”


D18 – Mark 16:19 – “So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.” [And all other scripture which refers to Christ as sitting at the Right Hand Side of God, including Psalm 110:1, and all similar scripture in the Book of Revelation].


D19 - John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. [Only Begotten Son - "Monogenes" - and all other verses in scripture where the term "monogenes" i.e: "only begotten" is used].


D20 - Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear o Isreal, the Lord our God, the Lord is One."


cc:

Tctrills
Boomark

Do you agree with

1) God is above all
2) Man is subject to God

And the corollary that if Jesus was a man then God becomes his God?

Gabrielshow24:
Do you agree with

1) God is above all
2) Man is subject to God

And the corollary that if Jesus was a man then God becomes his God?

Yes.

Let me however just place the caveat that for the purpose of this discussion our understanding of God is that being said to be the creator of all that exists - and as commonly understood within Abrahamic faiths. I make this caveat in order that anything discussed here is not taken to apply to my accession to the existence of that God in the first place, because my personal understanding of the word "God" is quite complicated and different and still evolving.

DeepSight:
Yes.

Let me however just place the caveat that for the purpose of this discussion our understanding of God is that being said to be the creator of all that exists - and as commonly understood within Abrahamic faiths. I make this caveat in order that anything discussed here is not taken to apply to my accession to the existence of that God in the first place, because my personal understanding of the word "God" is quite complicated and different and still evolving.

Alright, nice to hear.

Gabrielshow24:
Alright, nice to hear.

I await your responses.

DeepSight:
I await your responses.

Sorry, my bad. I was engaged with some ’cousins’👀 of mine that plagiarized my book then affirmed I corrupted or misplaced them.

Now given our settled stance, it's safe to conclude that's it's not completely wrong if Jesus were to be addressed as such—thereby, resolving some of the verses above. Do you agree?

Gabrielshow24:
Sorry, my bad. I was engaged with some ’cousins’👀 of mine that plagiarized my book then affirmed I corrupted or misplaced them.

Now given our settled stance, it's safe to conclude that's it's not completely wrong if Jesus were to be addressed as such—thereby, resolving some of the verses above. Do you agree?

Addressed as what? Man? Subject to God?

DeepSight:
Addressed as what? Man? Subject to God?

Yes, from such a perspective.

Gabrielshow24:
Yes, from such a perspective.

Is all well, or you had to flee from the verses?

DeepSight:
Is all well, or you had to flee from the verses?

I didn't flee. We have established a baseline for further engagements. I have been quite engaged with ’my cousins’ for a while.

Such a baseline has accounted for a certain portion of the verses you posited.

DeepSight:
Well here they are. I have reposted them several times since I first listed them on this board 12 years ago. Can you go at them one by one - rather than do what most people do by simply broadly waving them aside and proceeding to cite verses they think suport the deity of Christ.

-----------------------



D1 - I Tim. 2:5: - For there is one God, and one Mediator of God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus Christ”


D2 - John 14:28 – “I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I”.


D3 - I Cor. 11:3 - “But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God “


D4 - Eph. 1:15 - 17. - “15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints,16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him”


D5 - I Pet 1:3 - "Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ"


D6 - Mark 10:18 - “So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.”


D7 - I Cor. 15:28 - “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.”


D8 - John 15:1 – 10:“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;[a] and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 “You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me."

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 “If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 “If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 “By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. 9 “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. 10 “If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.


D9 - John 20:17 – “Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.’”


D 10 - John 17:1 - 8 – “1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 “as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should[a] give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 “And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 “I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 “And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.”

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 “Now they have known that all things which You have given Me are from You. 8 “For I have given to them the words which You have given Me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came forth from You; and they have believed that You sent Me."


D 11 - Mark 13:32 - “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”


D12 - Acts 2:22 – 24 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— 23 “Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken[b] by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 “whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.


D13 - Luke 22:41 - 42 – “41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed, 42saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me; nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” (The Prayer in Gethsemane).


D14 - John 8:40 - “But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.”


D15 - Luke 23:32 - 34 – “There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left. 34 Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do.”


D16 - Matt 21:33 – 42 “33 Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. 34 “Now when vintage–time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. 35 “And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another.

36 “Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. 37 “Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 “But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 “So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

40 “Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:
‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’

(The Parable of the Vineyard)


D17 - Matt 27:45 – 46 “45 Now from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was darkness over all the land. 46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”


D18 – Mark 16:19 – “So then, after the Lord had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God.” [And all other scripture which refers to Christ as sitting at the Right Hand Side of God, including Psalm 110:1, and all similar scripture in the Book of Revelation].


D19 - John 3:16 - “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 “For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. [Only Begotten Son - "Monogenes" - and all other verses in scripture where the term "monogenes" i.e: "only begotten" is used].


D20 - Deuteronomy 6:4 - "Hear o Isreal, the Lord our God, the Lord is One."


cc:

Tctrills
Boomark

Even though this has been addressed many times both here and other places what I want to point out is:

Bible speaks sparingly about Jesus before becoming part of Creation and majorly after became part of Creation.

The ability to distinguish this from the HOLY Scripture already solved this.

Emusan:
Even though this has been addressed many times both here and other places what I want to point out is:

Bible speaks sparingly about Jesus before becoming part of Creation and majorly after became part of Creation.

The ability to distinguish this from the HOLY Scripture already solved this.

What does that conclude please.

DeepSight:
What does that conclude please.

It means all the 20 instances you gave fall to the category of when Jesus became part of the Creation.

Emusan:
It means all the 20 instances you gave fall to the category of when Jesus became part of the Creation.

Dont you think that is being clever by half?

Because what do thinks like "begotten by God" and "at the right hand side of God" mean?

These are outside creation and yet they show that he is NOT GOD.

DeepSight:
Don't you think that is being clever by half?

No! That's the truth from the scripture.

Because what do thinks like "begotten by God" and "at the right hand side of God" mean?

Begotten by God of Jesus Christ happened on earth, that is why the scripture says "THIS DAY...I have begotten thee"

If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

About sitting at the right hand of God is simply because Jesus mission hasn't ended, so it's part of when Jesus became part of Creation.

In fact, one of the verses you posted emphasized on this when it says “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” - 1 Corin 15:28

Pay attention to the @underlined.

Why must God be ALL IN ALL not until the Son is subjected to the Father?

This simply means, until the mission of the Son is complete

These are outside creation and yet they show that he is NOT GOD.

No! They're absolutely when He became part of the Creation.

Emusan:
No! That's the truth from the scripture.



Begotten by God of Jesus Christ happened on earth, that is why the scripture says "THIS DAY...I have begotten thee"

If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

About sitting at the right hand of God is simply because Jesus mission hasn't ended, so it's part of when Jesus became part of Creation.

In fact, one of the verses you posted emphasized on this when it says “Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.” - 1 Corin 15:28

Pay attention to the @underlined.

Why must God be ALL IN ALL not until the Son is subjected to the Father?

This simply means, until the mission of the Son is complete



No! They're absolutely when He became part of the Creation.

Please specifically refer me to this -

"If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

Verse?

DeepSight:
Please specifically refer me to this -

"If you study scripture very well, The Father and Son begins the moment Jesus became part of Creation reason why the scripture says "...Today I have become your Father"

Verse?

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Read these verses objectively and see if Jesus had been the Son before coming to earth.

Emusan:
Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Read these verses objectively and see if Jesus had been the Son before coming to earth.

Lol. I will not waste my time further with you.

DeepSight:
Lol. I will not waste my time further with you.

because I didn't provide scripture or what?

Emusan:
because I didn't provide scripture or what?

You know what you did. You deliberately twisted even the little you brought.

DeepSight:
You know what you did. You deliberately twisted even the little you brought.

I twisted something you read in plain English.

Wahooooo

Here it is again but let me highlight some key part

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Emusan:
I twisted something you read in plain English.

Wahooooo

Here it is again but let me highlight some key part

Ps 2:7 “The Lord said to me, ‘You are my son. Today I have become your Father.'"

Heb 1:5 - For God never said to any angel what he said to Jesus: “You are my Son. Today I have become your Father.” God also said, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son.”

Forget it. Not interested.