₦airaland Forum

DeepSight:
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There are many things in the Bible I know are in the Bible but I still believe are false.

This is another ignorant statement.

The latest dead sea scrolls discovered in 2017 correlates evenly with the Bibles we have in circulation. What's your claim on falsehood based on?

But as regards you claiming that the death referred to in the Garden of Eden was the second death of Revelation, that is very debatable. I will not even go into the fact that that death promised in the Garden was said to be one that would happen in the very day that they ate the fruit. Which turned out not to be the case.

Listen, God told Adam and Eve in Eden that "...on the day thou earth from it, thou shalt die."

Did they die the physical death that day the earth it? No! But they died the spiritual death that day. This death is passed down to all men automatically. Eternal separation from God. Except you receive the gift of life in Jesus, you're considered spiritually dead according to Christian doctrine. You're only awaiting the wages of sin on the day of judgement.

If anything, the Serpent spoke the truth, saying that they would not die but become like God, knowing good and evil, which is exactly what happened.

So, God lied according to you, but the serpent spoke the truth. Didn't I tell you, you're very ignorant?

God does not consider physical death as death. Physical death is a transition. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, etc are not dead. They only transited. When I die physically, I'm not dead. I only transited. My father has transited. He is not dead in the actual sense of the word. He's waiting for me there above in God's Kingdom. Stephen didn't die when he was stoned. He only transited. He even saw Jesus waiting to receive him.

Psalm 116:15 says:

"Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his faithful servants."

God loves it when His faithful servant dies because, to God, it is not death, it is homecoming.

The real death, is the death of those who cannot come home.

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No amount of grammar can wish away the fact that he prayed for the cup to pass over his head. In short, he didnt want it. Certainly not at the point of that prayer.

Even if you show other verses where he says it was his will, then that discloses contradictions.

And if we say that it was not contradictory, but just an expression of his human fear, you really must interrogate again the idea that he is also God.

I have told you that He event was to let us know He was in pains. No other part of the gospels tells us what pains Jesus went through except these verses of Gethsemane.

If you say He didn't do it willingly, were you the one who forced Him? Or, can you show us how He was actually forced into giving up Himself?

Most times, exams are not easy for many students. Many students would pray earnestly for the exams to be shifted, cancelled or even suspended permanently with an alternative provision for promotion. None of these happens but the students still write the exams anyway. Were they forced then to write the exams? They wrote it willingly, just as Jesus gave Himself willingly even though He could have wished for some alternatives.

Wishing an unpleasant situation away is not the same thing as not willingly embracing it. Soldiers don't want to go to war because they don't want to die. They go willingly into war and die anyway. And that, without being forced. They do it willingly!

Do women enjoy the pains of childbirth? No! They wished the birth pangs could pass over. But, are they forced to birth children? No! They donut willingly!

The Gethsemane episodes were the beginning of Jesus' birth pangs that birthed a new generation of believers.

Tctrills can you justify the incident where Elisha's bald head is mocked by children and two bears are summoned to tear them to pieces. Forty two children slaughtered

DeepSight:
Tctrills can you justify the incident where Elisha's bald head is mocked by children and two bears are summoned to tear them to pieces. Forty two children slaughtered

Haba, this is low, my job is not to justify every incident in the bible that happened over the span of 3000 years.
Could this have been a case of Elisha misusing his power as Moses did, and Moses was punished for it?
Or was the Lord trying to teach a greater lesson?
There could be a thousand explanations for this. I am sure that the duty of a Christian is not to have an explanation for every incident in the bible.
But then, can you recall that you once listed the religions you prefer and those you detest? Islam and Christianity were among those you detest. Can you please give me the list again? I have a very interesting and insightful response for you.

tctrills:
Haba, this is low, my job is not to justify every incident in the bible that happened over the span of 3000 years.
Could this have been a case of Elisha misusing his power as Moses did, and Moses was punished for it?
Or was the Lord trying to teach a greater lesson?
There could be a thousand explanations for this. I am sure that the duty of a Christian is not to have an explanation for every incident in the bible.

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This is what I don't like. A perfectly legitimate question, you want to wave it off, even saying it is low. For goodness sake how is it low?
Besides you should understand that the overall context is the fact that such harsh acts of barbarism appear to be littered all over the Old Testament. It speaks to an overall character trajectory of the OT God which is appalling. TV01, BASILICO, any explanation?

These were children for goodness sake, and recall that the same God commissions the mass murder of infants, children and women in other verses.

But then, can you recall that you once listed the religions you prefer and those you detest? Islam and Christianity were among those you detest. Can you please give me the list again? I have a very interesting and insightful response for you.

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X - Christianity
X - Islam
X - Judaism
✔ - Buddhism
✔ - Taosim
✔ - Confucianism
✔X - Spiritual mystical traditions
✔X - Hinduism

8 in

DeepSight:
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This is what I don't like. A perfectly legitimate question, you want to wave it off, even saying it is low. For goodness sake how is it low?
Besides you should understand that the overall context is the fact that such harsh acts of barbarism appear to be littered all over the Old Testament. It speaks to an overall character trajectory of the OT God which is appalling. TV01, BASILICO, any explanation?

These were children for goodness sake, and recall that the same God commissions the mass murder of infants, children and women in other verses.


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X - Christianity
X - Islam
X - Judaism
✔ - Buddhism
✔ - Taosim
✔ - Confucianism
✔X - Spiritual mystical traditions
✔X - Hinduism

Your point here is, if a child dies, God is barbaric right?
So if you are God, from what age will you allow your creations to die?
Your argument here is that God taking a life He created at an age you don't approve of is Barbaric so, I want know what age do you approve.

Why I called your question low is because there could a thousand good reasons why God did it but we don't know.
If you want me to use my imagination, I could invent 10 wonderful reasons but can we be arguing about God's unrevealed intentions?

tctrills:
8 in
Your point here is, if a child dies, God is barbaric right?
So if you are God, from what age will you allow your creations to die?
Your argument here is that God taking a life He created at an age you don't approve of is Barbaric so, I want know what age do you approve.

Why I called your question low is because there could a thousand good reasons why God did it but we don't know.
If you want me to use my imagination, I could invent 10 wonderful reasons but can we be arguing about God's unrevealed intentions?

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Jesus Christ, you reduce tearing children to pieces over childlike jokes to a question of what age is okay for anyone to die since we will all die?

Where is your moral compass, where is your conscience?

Really? Mauling kids to death for cracking jokes as kids will do?

DeepSight:
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Jesus Christ, you reduce tearing children to pieces over childlike jokes to a question of what age is okay for anyone to die since we will all die?

Where is your moral compass, where is your conscience?

Really? Mauling kids to death for cracking jokes as kids will do?

Again, your point is that children are not allowed to die?
So basically you want to make God guilty of the death of every child especially if you don't like the circumstances of their death?

Are you just trying to force an argument?

As we speak today, maybe a million kids died, most of them didn't even mock a prophet, why should I hate God for that. The giver of life is the only one free to take life without being questioned.

Don't you realise the foolishness of what you are doing?
I loan you a car at no interest and tell you that I can take it at any time.
Then you question my morality for taking it at a time you were not ready to return it. Make it make sense.
God has every moral reason to take any life. It's you and I who didn't create life that do not have the moral backing to do so.
Again, respect others religion, don't use the name of their God in vain. How simple can that be? Learn to be decent.

tctrills:
Again, your point is that children are not allowed to die?
So basically you want to make God guilty of the death of every child especially if you don't like the circumstances of their death?

Are you just trying to force an argument?

As we speak today, maybe a million kids died, most of them didn't even mock a prophet, why should I hate God for that. The giver of life is the only one free to take life without being questioned.

Don't you realise the foolishness of what you are doing?
I loan you a car at no interest and tell you that I can take it at any time.
Then you question my morality for taking it at a time you were not ready to return it. Make it make sense.
God has every moral reason to take any life. It's you and I who didn't create life that do not have the moral backing to do so.
Again, respect others religion, don't use the name of their God in vain. How simple can that be? Learn to be decent.

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I cant believe anyone can write this.
Tearing children to pieces is okay? Over a joke?

Please never condemn terrorists or Islamic extremists again..

They are saints beside this.

DeepSight:
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Jesus Christ, you reduce tearing children to pieces over childlike jokes to a question of what age is okay for anyone to die since we will all die?

Where is your moral compass, where is your conscience?

Really? Mauling kids to death for cracking jokes as kids will do?

According to people like you, if a Christian loses his child, let's even assume that the child never mocked God, he would be right to hate and curse God?
Is this your understanding of morality?
Just tell us the age people should start dying if you were God

DeepSight:
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I cant believe anyone can write this.
Tearing children to pieces is okay? Over a joke?

Please never condemn terrorists or Islamic extremists again..

They are saints beside this.

Again, tell us the age people should start dying if you are God.
Terrorists are devils taking a life they don't owe. God owns all life.
He taking any life is not immoral.
Your believe that God shouldn't be able to take what He gave is unjust and immoral.

DeepSight:
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I cant believe anyone can write this.
Tearing children to pieces is okay? Over a joke?

Please never condemn terrorists or Islamic extremists again..

They are saints beside this.

Again, tell us the age people should start dyin[sup][/sup]g if you are God.
Terrorists are devils taking a life they don't owe. God owns all life.
He taking any life is not immoral.
Your believe that God shouldn't be able to take what He gave is unjust and immoral.

DeepSight:
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I cant believe anyone can write this.
Tearing children to pieces is okay? Over a joke?

Please never condemn terrorists or Islamic extremists again..

They are saints beside this.

On second reading, your anger seems to be the manner in which the kids were taken right?

Because it can't be the offence, many kids even younger die everyday and most of them don't mock prophets

X - Christianity
X - Islam
X - Judaism
✔ - Buddhism
✔ - Taosim
✔ - Confucianism
✔X - Spiritual mystical traditions
✔X - Hinduism[/quote]So, Jesus Christ said, "By their fruits, we shall know them." So, let's ask, which of all these religions has shaped humanity and our morals as a group more positively? Which religion has made humanity better?

The simple answer is Christianity, but let's discuss.

DeepSight:
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This is what I don't like. A perfectly legitimate question, you want to wave it off, even saying it is low. For goodness sake how is it low?
Besides you should understand that the overall context is the fact that such harsh acts of barbarism appear to be littered all over the Old Testament. It speaks to an overall character trajectory of the OT God which is appalling. TV01, BASILICO, any explanation?

These were children for goodness sake, and recall that the same God commissions the mass murder of infants, children and women in other verses.

A perfectly legitimate question? Doesn't matter really. One is free to ask.

First of all, they were not children, but that doesn't necessarily change the fact that they suffered summary judgement for their actions.
Secondly, they were mauled, which does not mean they were slaughtered. Thirdly, the "mob" was physically threatening him, and equally pertinent, mocking his Godly authority

Fourthly, because I suspect you are just after a "gotcha", I wont bore you with situational context in Eisha's prophethood, the nuance around calling someone who the bible describes as hirsute "baldy", or the consequent ramifications for mocking that authority.

I love the way you challenged this event based on morés that are only found in JC culture


TV

TV01:
Fourthly, because I suspect you are just after a "gotcha", I wont bore you with situational context in Eisha's prophethood, the nuance around calling someone who the bible describes as hirsute "baldy", or the consequent ramifications for mocking that authority.

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I am sincerely interested in this nuance, pray elucidate.

I love the way you challenged this event based on morés that are only found in JC culture


TV

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Don't be silly.

DeepSight:
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I am sincerely interested in this nuance, pray elucidate.

Oga, you are a mocker...do your own study. But, out of the JC inculcated goodness of my heart .

Elisha, was actually quite hairy - 2 Kings 1:8. The references to head may have been in relation to his former master Elijah - 2 Kings 2:3-5. The "go up" taunt probably alludes to ascension\rapture as experience by both. Like I mentioned, it touches on the test of deities and demonstration of Godly power, also experienced by Elijah. 1 Kings 18. The hair thingy could also shadow Samson, whose annoiting was literrally in his locks. Maybe I should grow mine - can't stand locks though .

DeepSight:
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Don't be silly.

You are getting there .


TV

TV01:
Oga, you are a mocker...do your own study. But, out of the JC inculcated goodness of my heart .

Elisha, was actually quite hairy - 2 Kings 1:8. The references to head may have been in relation to his former master Elijah - 2 Kings 2:3-5. The "go up" taunt probably alludes to ascension\rapture as experience by both. Like I mentioned, it touches on the test of deities and demonstration of Godly power, also experienced by Elijah. 1 Kings 18. The hair thingy could also shadow Samson, whose annoiting was literrally in his locks. Maybe I should grow mine - can't stand locks though .

This is a stretch.

DeepSight:
This is a stretch.

Possibly to some, and I can see why. It's one of the reasons I almost elided. But not if you grasp the bible thematically and understand types, shadows, pre-cursors and the unfolding work of God's unfolding redemptive plan.

What did the youths who mobbed Elisha mean by the taunt "go up"?


TV

TV01:
Possibly to some, and I can see why. It's one of the reasons I almost elided. But not if you grasp the bible thematically and understand types, shadows, pre-cursors and the unfolding work of God's unfolding redemptive plan.
[/b]


TV

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The bold excuse is often used by fraudulent bible scholars and pastors to scam people into meanings not intended by scripture and to escape from tight spots in doctrine.

DeepSight:
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The bold excuse is often used by fraudulent bible scholars and pastors to scam people into meanings not intended by scripture and to escape from tight spots in doctrine.

But you could not addressthe actual question .
The are many fraudsters out there. And yes, some call themsolves pastors or MOGs. Some dont .


TV

TV01:
But you could not addressthe actual question .
The are many fraudsters out there. And yes, some call themsolves pastors or MOGs. Some dont .


TV

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Clearly you are the one with the peculiar interpretation. The NIV for example does not understand it they way you do.

"23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. “Get out of here, baldy!” they said. “Get out of here, baldy!” 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys." - NIV

Nonetheless, no interpretation of those words are sufficient for the bloody consequence.

Again, if it was an isolated case of the OT God displaying irrational murderous violence, one could understand. But like I said, this thing is littered all over the bible. I created a thread the other day about how 70, 000 Israelites were killed by Yahweh because David conducted a census. The worst aspect was that it was Yahweh that put it in his heart to do so.

Even though one wonders what the crime in a census is.

You see, when you excuse incident after incident it becomes tiresome. A few incidents can be understood or let go but something that is so repetitive and all over the place calls for pause.

tctrills:
I don't know what you think I see. But seen you can't explain let's leave it.

The bible makes it clear that man is not able to pay for so and only God has such power. If that is a contradiction to you, no one can help you.

Where did you get all these from. ?
Stop adding to God's word.

Or you don turn God adviser?

sonmvayina:
Where did you get all these from. ?
Stop adding to God's word.

Or you don turn God adviser?

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Are you Hindu or Hindu leaning

sonmvayina:
Where did you get all these from. ?
Stop adding to God's word.

Or you don turn God adviser?

You mean the bible did not teach that man can't pay for sin?
Or that only Christ can pay for sins?
My brother you need to learn to read before speaking.

Galatians 2:16
.knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ... for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified

Psalm 49:7–8
"No man can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him—for the redemption of their souls is costly, and it shall cease forever.

Acts 4:12
And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

TcTrills, TV01, a delicious snack from the inimitable Christopher Hitchens -

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/irUsUiVDbY4

cc LordRreed

DeepSight:
TcTrills, TV01, a delicious snack from the inimitable Christopher Hitchens -

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/irUsUiVDbY4

cc LordRreed

The dude is making exactly your argument. Please just forward him my reply, everyone dea chance to learn.

DeepSight:
TcTrills, TV01, a delicious snack from the inimitable Christopher Hitchens -

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/irUsUiVDbY4

cc LordRreed

I have seen this before - watched it again
Hitch starts wrong by the number of years 1/4 million to 100,000.
He then proceeds to ramble, mostly spewing his hate for Christianity and God.
Christianity is evidenced. And testified of, even by his own brother .


TV

DeepSight:
These were the other issues I raise -

- The doctrine of the Trinity which is blasphemous

- The teaching of eternal hell fire which is barbaric

- The ritual of communion which is negatively pagan in essence, to the extent that it is said to be a representation of eating human flesh and drinking human blood

- The teaching that you must love Jesus more than you love your parents

- The doctrine of inherited sin, which casts blame on the innocent

Let us start with the last.

Going by the last three verses I gave you, there is even a contradiction there. One of those verses specifically said that the child shall not bear the sin of the father. How does this not contradict the doctrine of inherited original sin. Besides such a doctrine is inherently unjust.

Let me answer some of those.

The doctrine of the Trinity which is blasphemous

What if the Trinity is understood not as three distinct persons-gods, but, more spiritually, as the Trinity in the Lord, as the Trinity of soul, body and operation?

The teaching of eternal hell fire which is barbaric

What if the eternal fire is understood more spiritually, not as the literal fire burning men, but as the fires of the passions, love of self and love of the world above everything, with all the hatreds, revenges, envies, torturing the evil spirits, when they go out of boundaries, which they would be inclined to cross?

- The ritual of communion which is negatively pagan in essence, to the extent that it is said to be a representation of eating human flesh and drinking human blood

The teaching that you must love Jesus more than you love your parents

What if that means that one has to love the Divine, the true spiritual, above what is natural? Thus, when a person is loved, as parent, for instance, that the justice itself, the righteousness itself, the good itself, the truth itself has to be loved more? So, that when a parent asks for something unjust or evil to be done, the just things should done, and not the unjust or evil?

The doctrine of inherited sin, which casts blame on the innocent

What if a man is not punished for the inherited evils, but only for those which he voluntarily and deliberately takes upon himself, while he knows that they are contary to the Divine, thus to everything just and righteous and equitable, and good and true?